Have you ever watched a real race (you know, overtaking etc)

[corozin]

I think it's a bit strong to call Troll on this one. Despite the occasions you've mentioned (and I'll throw in today's antic in Brazil as well) F1 is generally processional and has been for at least 10 years. That's not to say the drivers aren't talented and competition intense, it's just the way the racing works out as a result of the rules package that's applied to the cars.

There's no point in really making a list of what forms of motorsport have more overtaking and what I'll call 'racing interest' than F1, because nearly every form of motorsport betters F1 in that department. Sometimes even the most lowly formula generate the most amazing action, as anyone who's seen Mini's going into the Esses at Castle Combe three abreast, or BTCC cars going into Paddock Hill Bend side by side with testify.

Only modest changes to the F1 package are required to get the action going again; a reduction in aero downforce, dumping the silly grooved tyres, bring back manual gearboxes, and eliminate live telemetry. Then the drivers would really have to drive the cars 100% again.

[Heebeegeetee]

Ordinary Bloke said:

I worked in F1 in the 80's, in the days when they were allowed to overtake. I met drivers like James Hunt and Keke Rosberg and Ayrton Senna, long before the electronics, lawyers and money men took over.

I don't even bother with F1 now, I wouldn't even call it racing. Go watch a kart race or any old saloon car race at Brands and you'll see what I mean.

MotoGP tonight, they actually pass each other on the track!!!

Anyone else think F1 is a pile of P0O?

I watched F1 in the eighties, in fact still got many of the races on tape. They used to complain back then about the same things we complain about now. I don't think there was much more overtaking then as now. I might say that the aerodynamics do spoil things to a degree, but one L. Hamilton doesn't seem to have noticed much.

[Ordinary Bloke]

I'm quite happy for everyone to watch whatever they want, just asking if anyone else had noticed that F1 isn't technically 'racing'. I especially love it when they need special observers, or the legal people get involved...

I saw that Goodwood festival thing on ITV4 this afternoon, there was more overtaking in the Ford GT40 vs Lola something race and they were supposed to be 'putting on a show'.

I must have felt that F1 was exciting as I jacked in a good job to go and work at Leyton House March, in the days that Rubens & Ivan Capelli were driving a F3000 car with an enlarged engine! Gordon Coppuck was the designer, with a young Adrian Newey doing aerodynamics.

Yes, it's the pinnacle, yes they market it extremely well, but racing??? If the action happens before the end of the first lap, or in the pits, it's not really a race is it?

I prefer watching almost any other sort of motorsport, but that's just me. If you haven't seen any of the other classes mentioned here, you should go to Brands or Donington (but no no not Silverstone) and watch some amateurs. Heaps of fun.

I agree with whoever said get rid of the electronics, carbon carbon brakes, some of the downforce etc.