Is this the end for Kimi?
Discussion
MrKipling43 said:
a number of things
Mr K,The quoting can get lengthy, so I shall just reply. I'm glad that we mostly agree.
I think that it is a pity, more than anything else, that Raikkonen doesn't comport himself better away from the circuit. When I first heard about his foolishness in the Canaries in '04, I thought, "This is just the media again making something out of nothing." Then not long after there was the silliness in the lap dancing place, and one got the depressing feeling that something was a bit lacking in this fellow.
They tell me that Hamilton puts in the hours on the simulator every single day that he is available. They also tell me that, in his five years with the team, Kimi was never seen near it. That's a shame, because what put Senna and Schumacher and Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong on a level above their counterparts was that they took their exceptional talents and then multiplied them through relentless hard work. Imagine how good Kimi would be if he would do the same?
My criticism in the post above was specifically about KR's remark to Brundle, not about his general demeanour with the press.
That general demeanour doesn't particularly bother me, but I strongly suspect that others (sponsors and fans) wish that he could put a smile on his face and show some enthusiasm a bit more often.
I'm sure that many of us, were we in his position, would similarly dread the corporate appearances, the need to be "on message", etc. It cannot be fun.
Nonetheless, for what I believe is the highest-paid team athlete/sportsman in the world to be dour and disengaged in public almost all the time is regrettable, wouldn't you say? After all, in other circumstances he seems to know how to have a good time.
It reminds me somewhat of the movie and recording stars and politicians who whinge about having no privacy. If you actively seek to put yourself in the public domain, for your own personal motivations and profit, don't complain when you have to deal with the crap that inevitably comes with the success that you sought.
Kimi's not complaining, at least not publicly, and from what I know he is vastly more cooperative with his sponsors' requests than the selfish Villeneuve Very Junior was. It would just be nicer if he showed some appreciation for his rare status.
I'm not trying to trash the guy, but he does diminish himself sometimes.
As for the particular offensive comment, I cannot imagine one of the true greats of the sport - Moss, Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Senna, Prost, Schumacher - after having been asked if he had just seen the retirement ceremony between his predecessor true racing great and the world's most revered footballer, directly replying on live tv: "No, I was taking a shit."
It would be nice for Kimi to show a little more personality, and him supposedly misleading his former employers doesn't sound entirely honourable, but I'm quite thankful he's not another Hamilton/Alonso/Heidfeld etc.
The F1 pitlane is possibly a little too sterile at times and to have a number of differing personalities, instead of facsimile copies of one another, is better IMO.
Kimi's 'shit' comment was a little immature, but I quite enjoyed the mischievousness of it, but then again, that's possibly a reflection on me - I also laugh at well time farts etc
The F1 pitlane is possibly a little too sterile at times and to have a number of differing personalities, instead of facsimile copies of one another, is better IMO.
Kimi's 'shit' comment was a little immature, but I quite enjoyed the mischievousness of it, but then again, that's possibly a reflection on me - I also laugh at well time farts etc
flemke said:
:J: said:
I will give him kudos though for his "taking a sh*t" comment when asked about M.S's leaving speech for whatever it was
With respect, :J:, I'd have to disagree with this part of your post.The world has enough juvenile toilet jokes being passed off as "wit" already. All it seems to take is someone to raise his (or her) voice and use "fcuk" or "shit" in a sentence, and everybody collapses in paroxysms of laughter.
We don't need an extremely lucky kid who has become an idolised role model (and enjoyed the massive rewards that came with that) to make foul-mouthed wisecracks to millions of children, not to mention the adult viewers who would have been offended as well.
"Duuuh, mumble, mumble, I was taking a shit, duuuh, mumble, mumble."
It's one thing to be fresh or mischievous, it's another to be crude.
Fortunately for me, I have yet to reach a stage in life where such a thing would make me feel the same as yourself about it
It wasn't the swearing that made me laugh, but more the way he showed he couldn't care less about M.S whilst all around were bending over backwards for him.
Indeed it can, so I shall only quote this...
For the most part I see what you mean about his 'Iceman' persona, and i must admit that if I was paying him, I'd want him to cheer up a little bit too! I think my opinion could be fixed in stone if i saw a little kid in a Ferrari hat ask for his autograph. A reaction to that can make or break the image of a sportsman in my mind.
Anyway...
I'd heard the simulator rumour too and i must confess I was disappointed, if a little unsurprised, when i heard it.
It's an interesting group of sportsmen you put together as your examples of the true modern greats -
Senna: the first truly fit and trained F1 driver - who I was always thought lacked motivation in the ordinary sense of the word, which is not to say he didn't work hard; just that he seemed more driven by destiny than determination. If you see what I mean.
Tiger Woods: another 'fitness first', a true analyser - as all modern sportsmen must be.
Schumacher: quite simply wanted to be the best there ever was.
Lance Armstrong: as I understand it, motivated by a desire not just to beat everyone else, but actually humiliate his oponents... an admirable quality I think... especially when it's done with the kind of class that Lance has.
I would put Travis Pastrana up there too.
Kimi on the other hand probably goes into the catergory occupied by people like Shaun Palmer, James Hunt, Paul Gasgoyne - talent by the absolute bucket load - but just a bit too willing to rely on it, rather than work at it. More interesting, but a bit more annoying for 'mere mortals' like you and I!
Yes it would be better to see some more of the Kimi we don't know so well, and I'd love to see him apply himself a bit more.
But, in the same way that (in hindsight) I'm pleased I got to witness The Schumi Era, which (again, in hindsight) almost offset the tedium - I'm pleased that we get to see such a blindingly talented driver at work - even if it is just in flashes - it's a thrilling sight.
Another factor could be this too - you (rather famously) own a McLaren F1, which as I understand it, you drive (lots) are very open about the ownership experience and willing to put in lots of time to answer silly questions from dribbling fools like me, so everyone admires and respects the fact that you have that car in your garage - rather than being annoyed by it. Jealousy is only the very flattering kind and I (for one) am pleased for you that you have the pleasure of owning that car.
You are Lewis Hamilton/Tiger Woods/Martyn Ashton/Ayrton Senna.
Other people hide them away in a garage, don't drive them anywhere or enjoy them the way they BLOODY WELL SHOULD! They just sit, unloved, in a climate controlled warehouse serving to liquidate wealth or make money as an investment. They will never be enjoyed by people not fortunate enough to own (let alone drive) a car like that.
They are Kimi Raikonnen/Shaun Palmer/Paul Gasgoyne.
Does that analagy make any sense at all?!
flemke said:
I cannot imagine one of the true greats of the sport - Moss, Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Senna, Prost, Schumacher - after having been asked if he had just seen the retirement ceremony between his predecessor true racing great and the world's most revered footballer, directly replying on live tv: "No, I was taking a shit."
Hah hah! No, I'm afraid there is no argument for that! If one could argue that it wasn't offensive, there would certainly be no recourse against the accusation that it was disrespectful which, perhaps, is the even more important point to make.For the most part I see what you mean about his 'Iceman' persona, and i must admit that if I was paying him, I'd want him to cheer up a little bit too! I think my opinion could be fixed in stone if i saw a little kid in a Ferrari hat ask for his autograph. A reaction to that can make or break the image of a sportsman in my mind.
Anyway...
I'd heard the simulator rumour too and i must confess I was disappointed, if a little unsurprised, when i heard it.
It's an interesting group of sportsmen you put together as your examples of the true modern greats -
Senna: the first truly fit and trained F1 driver - who I was always thought lacked motivation in the ordinary sense of the word, which is not to say he didn't work hard; just that he seemed more driven by destiny than determination. If you see what I mean.
Tiger Woods: another 'fitness first', a true analyser - as all modern sportsmen must be.
Schumacher: quite simply wanted to be the best there ever was.
Lance Armstrong: as I understand it, motivated by a desire not just to beat everyone else, but actually humiliate his oponents... an admirable quality I think... especially when it's done with the kind of class that Lance has.
I would put Travis Pastrana up there too.
Kimi on the other hand probably goes into the catergory occupied by people like Shaun Palmer, James Hunt, Paul Gasgoyne - talent by the absolute bucket load - but just a bit too willing to rely on it, rather than work at it. More interesting, but a bit more annoying for 'mere mortals' like you and I!
Yes it would be better to see some more of the Kimi we don't know so well, and I'd love to see him apply himself a bit more.
But, in the same way that (in hindsight) I'm pleased I got to witness The Schumi Era, which (again, in hindsight) almost offset the tedium - I'm pleased that we get to see such a blindingly talented driver at work - even if it is just in flashes - it's a thrilling sight.
Another factor could be this too - you (rather famously) own a McLaren F1, which as I understand it, you drive (lots) are very open about the ownership experience and willing to put in lots of time to answer silly questions from dribbling fools like me, so everyone admires and respects the fact that you have that car in your garage - rather than being annoyed by it. Jealousy is only the very flattering kind and I (for one) am pleased for you that you have the pleasure of owning that car.
You are Lewis Hamilton/Tiger Woods/Martyn Ashton/Ayrton Senna.
Other people hide them away in a garage, don't drive them anywhere or enjoy them the way they BLOODY WELL SHOULD! They just sit, unloved, in a climate controlled warehouse serving to liquidate wealth or make money as an investment. They will never be enjoyed by people not fortunate enough to own (let alone drive) a car like that.
They are Kimi Raikonnen/Shaun Palmer/Paul Gasgoyne.
Does that analagy make any sense at all?!
Edited by MrKipling43 on Tuesday 10th July 14:37
I think that it is a pity, more than anything else, that Raikkonen doesn't comport himself better away from the circuit. When I first heard about his foolishness in the Canaries in '04, I thought, "This is just the media again making something out of nothing." Then not long after there was the silliness in the lap dancing place, and one got the depressing feeling that something was a bit lacking in this fellow.
They tell me that Hamilton puts in the hours on the simulator every single day that he is available. They also tell me that, in his five years with the team, Kimi was never seen near it. That's a shame, because what put Senna and Schumacher and Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong on a level above their counterparts was that they took their exceptional talents and then multiplied them through relentless hard work. Imagine how good Kimi would be if he would do the same?
Aha yes - the HE LIKES TO PARTY BIT. Top Marks on the Canaries and the Lap Dancing (I wish I had been there too). This is the type of Driver we need in F1.
As for simulator - hahahahahahahah No you ARE KIDDING!
No one wants Robots - well maybe some misguided people on here do!
They tell me that Hamilton puts in the hours on the simulator every single day that he is available. They also tell me that, in his five years with the team, Kimi was never seen near it. That's a shame, because what put Senna and Schumacher and Tiger Woods and Lance Armstrong on a level above their counterparts was that they took their exceptional talents and then multiplied them through relentless hard work. Imagine how good Kimi would be if he would do the same?
Aha yes - the HE LIKES TO PARTY BIT. Top Marks on the Canaries and the Lap Dancing (I wish I had been there too
). This is the type of Driver we need in F1.As for simulator - hahahahahahahah No you ARE KIDDING!
No one wants Robots - well maybe some misguided people on here do!
I laughed like a drain at Kimi's comment - not for what he said, but for the reason why he said it - he is, and will always be, contemptuous of anyone. A difficult man to deal with, no doubt and impossible to manage, but at least he is consistent!
I'm willing to be that Zidane is an unpleasant person too, but you can't deny his skill. Mike Tyson - what a boxer...but a sponsor friendly bloke - no way.
...but what interesting sportsman they are...
...I really hope Kimi doesn't piss it all away up a wall though...
I'm willing to be that Zidane is an unpleasant person too, but you can't deny his skill. Mike Tyson - what a boxer...but a sponsor friendly bloke - no way.
...but what interesting sportsman they are...
...I really hope Kimi doesn't piss it all away up a wall though...
jellison said:
They are Paid to RACE.
If they were only paid to race, how much money do you think they'd end up with? Kimi's 35 million doesn't come from selling ferraris, thats for sure, and I don't suppose anyone held a gun to his head to make him accept the money.Btw, Kimi's "I was taking a shit" comment on live TV, was his way of telling Brundle to "
off, and take your mindless, tv watching numpties with you".Edited by Heebeegeetee on Tuesday 10th July 18:06
stephen300o said:
MrKipling43 said:
jellison said:
As for simulator - hahahahahahahah No you ARE KIDDING!
What on earth does that mean?You appear to be an NSX man, as am I.
Computer game is to McLaren simulator as NSX is to McLaren/Honda MP4/4.
MrKipling43 said:
Does that analagy make any sense at all?!
Mr K,The only analogy including Ayrton Senna and me that makes sense would have him and me on opposite sides: Senna is to Flemke as sublime is to ridiculous - that sort of thing.
WRT people who amass cars without ever driving them, it seems sacrilegious never to drive them, although I would cut some slack to people who wouldn't know how to drive them, but who respect and appreciate them anyway.
Tom Wheatcroft has his fabulous collection of GP cars. We wouldn't expect him to drive them at speed around Donington, but we are grateful that he looks after them and makes them available to everyone else to enjoy.
In contrast, Bernie is reputed to own a collection of GP cars that rivals Wheatcroft's, but who except his closest buddies has ever seen photos of them, much less been allowed to lay his eyes on the metal? That's not right.
When you're driving a rare and valuable car, as I have been lucky enough to do, you're trying to use it as it was meant to be used, and you're ever-conscious of being mechanically sympathetic, but at the same time you're also aware that the car's usable life is finite, and with each minute that you are indulging yourself, and sharing the car with the world around you, you are consuming a bit more of that finite life. That can be a dilemma - and we're not even talking about accident risk.
I drive them, and I hope that I always will, but I don't resent genuine enthusiasts who aren't drivers. The guys who amass only for the sake of possession, however - they're just gluttons.
flemke said:
stephen300o said:
MrKipling43 said:
jellison said:
As for simulator - hahahahahahahah No you ARE KIDDING!
What on earth does that mean?You appear to be an NSX man, as am I.
Computer game is to McLaren simulator as NSX is to McLaren/Honda MP4/4.
Stephen, have a read of this thread on the Autosport forums
http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&...
Even if only half of it is true, thats one hell of a computer game!
http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&...
Even if only half of it is true, thats one hell of a computer game!
LocoBlade said:
Stephen, have a read of this thread on the Autosport forums
http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&...
Even if only half of it is true, thats one hell of a computer game!
"Even though Hamilton had not seen the opening two tracks of the championship in Melbourne and Malaysia, Britain's boy wonder learned them intimately by doing hundreds of laps on the simulator."http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=&...
Even if only half of it is true, thats one hell of a computer game!
As did Villeneuve with his playstation
from the forum said:
I'm not sure if it does CFD yet, but they certainly test new parts on it, PDLR said so. A while ago I saw a video related to this, and every mechanical part was modelled, and I include crankshaft, pistons, springs... all of them. That's why they need enormous computer power
I can't verify the authenticity of this information but its precisely how I envisage it functioning. In F1 everything is designed on CAD anyway with all of its physical properties taken into consideration during the design (ie materials used etc), so you already have half the information to hand so there's no reason other than enormous computing power why you cannot model each of these components individually and accurately simulate what the car will do on the track, to the point that you can plug in the data of a new component and assess it's effect on the car as a whole. I have little doubt that the modelling will be simplified somewhat in certain (less important) areas due to the sheer number of moving components and so the amount of processing power needed, but it appears to be capable of feeding back valuable information on component upgrades because you wouldnt spend £20m-£60m on something that simply allowed the drivers to learn the track a few laps quicker, especially with the current regulations where the drivers get a decent amount of Friday running before the race.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff