2023 Sportscar Thread (WEC, IMSA, NLS, GT World Challenge)
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
I remain unconvinced that 4 or 5 of these portaloo things with dirty great electric heaters or diesel ones blowing hot air everywhere are cheaper than tyre blankets!
A quick Demon Tweeks search shows that a set of blankets (4) with a controller is about 4k, so being kind and giving a volume discount let's say 3k. For one set. A tent including a heater that will take upto 3 sets of tyres is between 1.5 and 2k (again, quick search). The energy costs on top of that will be some diesel or the electricity (charged at circuit rates). Tents are cheaper.As you quite rightly say, WEC is a global championship and, they believe, with that comes responsibilities, not least to the environment. 'Banning' the tyre heaters gives them a tick against reducing the obvious energy usage at the circuits but also in the amount of freight they are dragging across the world column.
I do wonder if some of the issues the Hypercars are facing is a continuation of the tyre issues from the last days of LMP1. Michelin built tyres using data from the best (and to be fair, only) on track source, Toyota. These tyres, especially the fronts, were tricky for the other LMP1 runners, especially those without Hybrid, they just could not get the fronts to work properly, so maybe there is a hangover which is effecting the rears this time. That data set is still young for Hypercar, so with more data being accrued all the time, the tyres 'should' get better, but probably not until next season.
(I love the tyre tents. They are an oasis of pleasure on a cold, wet early morning walking through the back of the garages)
I suspect the big teams waste 10x the energy of the tyre warmers in shipping, erecting and heating/cooling their massive hospitality units.
Also, how much energy is used in making, transporting and disposing of each race tyre? You'd probably save more of the earth's resources by using one less set of tyres per race, per car, than banning tyre warming.
Also, how much energy is used in making, transporting and disposing of each race tyre? You'd probably save more of the earth's resources by using one less set of tyres per race, per car, than banning tyre warming.
Amazing Tandy managed to salvage 2nd for Porsche
The 7 crew need to have long debrief, an absolute shambles from both drivers
Having watched them in WEC and IMSA I’m not sure the Penske crew are up to the standards Porsche set when running the 919s
Hindhaugh and Shaw (who is way past his sell by date) wearing to listen to though, don’t they actually watch what’s going on before speaking?
The 7 crew need to have long debrief, an absolute shambles from both drivers
Having watched them in WEC and IMSA I’m not sure the Penske crew are up to the standards Porsche set when running the 919s
Hindhaugh and Shaw (who is way past his sell by date) wearing to listen to though, don’t they actually watch what’s going on before speaking?
freedman said:
Amazing Tandy managed to salvage 2nd for Porsche
The 7 crew need to have long debrief, an absolute shambles from both drivers
Having watched them in WEC and IMSA I’m not sure the Penske crew are up to the standards Porsche set when running the 919s
Hindhaugh and Shaw (who is way past his sell by date) wearing to listen to though, don’t they actually watch what’s going on before speaking?
Agree, Penske are not near as slick in the pits as WEC crews. Some very tardy tyre work - each mechanic doing something slightly different, not the highly choreographed work you'd see from joest et all in the past.The 7 crew need to have long debrief, an absolute shambles from both drivers
Having watched them in WEC and IMSA I’m not sure the Penske crew are up to the standards Porsche set when running the 919s
Hindhaugh and Shaw (who is way past his sell by date) wearing to listen to though, don’t they actually watch what’s going on before speaking?
Can't agree with the negativity about Hindy and team though, IMO the RLM crew are still the best in the business, sure there's the occasional mistake, but that never hurt Murray.
freedman said:
Amazing Tandy managed to salvage 2nd for Porsche
The 7 crew need to have long debrief, an absolute shambles from both drivers
Having watched them in WEC and IMSA I’m not sure the Penske crew are up to the standards Porsche set when running the 919s
Hindhaugh and Shaw (who is way past his sell by date) wearing to listen to though, don’t they actually watch what’s going on before speaking?
100% agree on the commentary. I think they spend their time looking at the timesheets instead of watching whats happening on the TVs. The missed literally every point of interest.The 7 crew need to have long debrief, an absolute shambles from both drivers
Having watched them in WEC and IMSA I’m not sure the Penske crew are up to the standards Porsche set when running the 919s
Hindhaugh and Shaw (who is way past his sell by date) wearing to listen to though, don’t they actually watch what’s going on before speaking?
The WEC TV commentary team in contrast (particularly Ant Davison) are much much better.
N0ddie said:
100% agree on the commentary. I think they spend their time looking at the timesheets instead of watching whats happening on the TVs. The missed literally every point of interest.
The WEC TV commentary team in contrast (particularly Ant Davison) are much much better.
Ant is very good, as are most of the commentary, bar Martin Haven, who is so fond of his own voice he barely pauses for breath The WEC TV commentary team in contrast (particularly Ant Davison) are much much better.
At least we've moved on from Carlton Kirby and Mark Cole
I appreciate what Hindhaugh and the RLM team have done to bring sportscar racing to us over the years, but he now seems to be the worst one in the team
Last night was the classic
"The 92 Porsche didnt take tyres at that stop" This 10 seconds after we'd all watched the car getting clearly getting a tyre change as part of its full service
Some of the RLM commentaries have missed having someone like Paul Truswell who just sits in the background watching the timing and interjects with What Is Actually Happening, leaving the colour commentators to watch the action on track.
Also, the clue is in the name and RLM are meant to be doing a radio commentary rather than a TV commentary which shouldn't necessarily be in sync with what is on screen. That doesn't excuse factual errors though.
Also, the clue is in the name and RLM are meant to be doing a radio commentary rather than a TV commentary which shouldn't necessarily be in sync with what is on screen. That doesn't excuse factual errors though.
Truckosaurus said:
Some of the RLM commentaries have missed having someone like Paul Truswell who just sits in the background watching the timing and interjects with What Is Actually Happening, leaving the colour commentators to watch the action on track.
Also, the clue is in the name and RLM are meant to be doing a radio commentary rather than a TV commentary which shouldn't necessarily be in sync with what is on screen. That doesn't excuse factual errors though.
Truswell is indeed excellentAlso, the clue is in the name and RLM are meant to be doing a radio commentary rather than a TV commentary which shouldn't necessarily be in sync with what is on screen. That doesn't excuse factual errors though.
I feel most of the endurance guys are all pretty good.
I dont mind Shaven at all, he does get a bit carried away and talks over people a lot, but I feel that is simply enthusiasm.
In GTWC I do think Wattie needs to move on, he really does struggle at times, he sometimes just doesn't finish sentences, and makes so many mistakes,a and really what experience does he have of even remotely being anywhere near a GT3 car, the British GT guy is excellent as a very recent driver, he adds a lot.
I dont mind Shaven at all, he does get a bit carried away and talks over people a lot, but I feel that is simply enthusiasm.
In GTWC I do think Wattie needs to move on, he really does struggle at times, he sometimes just doesn't finish sentences, and makes so many mistakes,a and really what experience does he have of even remotely being anywhere near a GT3 car, the British GT guy is excellent as a very recent driver, he adds a lot.
freedman said:
That looks like tomorrow's qualy. Today's seems to be:LukeBrown66 said:
I remain unconvinced that 4 or 5 of these portaloo things with dirty great electric heaters or diesel ones blowing hot air everywhere are cheaper than tyre blankets!
it would not be hard to restrict the use of any of this stuff, say only a couple of sets of blankets, otherwise you have to use cold tyres.
The point simply being that either WEC are going to have to get used to it, or bail on the idea and bring them back, I am not keen on them at all, anything to reduce footprint and unnecessary expense, the tyre manufacturers could make tyres that switch on better I'm sure.
Personally I think it adds to the challenge, if a little unsafe.
I have worked in most series discussed here, plus others, and would like to answer a few points made by many, first, wec is second, to F1, having worked in both i would rank wec higher, there is way more freedom, not in the lower classes granted, but in hypercar, you can basicly design what you want, and aslong as it meets the overall driven power, and the over all downforce rules, then you are free, F1 is pretty much a specj series now, the rules are that tight, and tbh the budgeds are not far apart.it would not be hard to restrict the use of any of this stuff, say only a couple of sets of blankets, otherwise you have to use cold tyres.
The point simply being that either WEC are going to have to get used to it, or bail on the idea and bring them back, I am not keen on them at all, anything to reduce footprint and unnecessary expense, the tyre manufacturers could make tyres that switch on better I'm sure.
Personally I think it adds to the challenge, if a little unsafe.
Also there is in my opinion alot more for the driver to do, he/she has to be quick yet still give a team mate a good car, manage tires in a way f1 have no idea about, wec is racing, f1 is showbiz.
In the motorsport world f1 is a bit of a joke tbh. It wasnt always that way but it is today.
Re tyre warmers, the cost of blankets is mad, plus they dont last, you also have to treat them with kid gloves or they break, plus they use huge amounts of electric, i mean huge, a tyre oven as used in bgt/wec etc, well not so far in wec this year, cost peanuts in comparison, and can do multiple sets of tyres at a time.
It would seem that the aco have changed the ruling for leman now, and are allowing tyre heaters.
Oh and having worked in both, wec is a huge step up from bgt, there might be teams doing both, but i dought its the same people, teams doing both tend to have a group of people doing each championship, as they are very different skills needed, yes some teams move up to wec but if they stay in bgt aswaell, its usually a compleatly different set of people. And dont forget the cars are different too. and for the drivers, the cost is a different level especially if you are including lemans, that event alone costs more than a season of bgt
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