2022: BTCC and support series
Discussion
Milkyway said:
Re the budgets... Do the Drivers or teams get prize money in any form?
( Howevet modest it may be)
The sporting regulations make oblique references to prize money, such as stating that all payments from the organisers to individuals must be declared for tax purposes in the UK. ( Howevet modest it may be)
https://www.btcc.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/20...
Chapters. 1.7 and 6.15 refer.
Sandpit Steve said:
Speed Badger said:
Silly question, but how do the BTCC teams actually make money? (As in profit). With the cost of the car builds, premesis, consumables, paying all the staff, hospitality etc. Yes the drivers bring sponsorship, but surely that doesn't cover the entire running costs (and more) for the entire team?
Not unless they’re a factory works team where it’s part of a bigger company’s marketing budget, or they get lucky with a major sponsor or pay-driver. The bigger teams might have other motorsport interests, such as preparing cars for other series. I imagine that, for most teams, the line on the budget at the start of the season marked ‘profit’, is a similar number to that marked ‘contingencies’, and that by the end of the season most of the money has finished up in the second column! A lot of the shareholders are passionate racer types, and will just as likely spend any surplus on making the car go faster, rather than returning dividends to themselves.
Keeps a lot of people employed though, thanks to the sponsors and TV cash that makes it all possible!
Edited by Sandpit Steve on Saturday 30th October 11:21
Teddy Lop said:
I assumed a lot of ownership was by successful individuals indulging a passion and writing off a load of otherwise taxable profits!
There’s definitely a fair bit of that among the ‘gentlemen racers’ and the ‘Pro-AM’ GT teams, where it’s not uncommon to see the driver just happening to be a major shareholder in the team sponsor.A bit like Nikita Mazepin in F1, and as many of us on here would probably do if we had the millions required!
Most racing teams do NOT make money, they try and keep their heads above water, but think about it? the only ways you make money in motorsport are with prizemoney and sponsorship, people dont just give you money for stuff, most of that is for drivers, personal sponsors etc and a lot of that is kit.
A team has to pay out a fair bit in wages, buy loads of kit, a premises, hospitality, who pays for that? either a rich team boss, or a combo of drivers and sponsors brining money in and the budget being carefully sorted pre season.
For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.
I would guess a manufacturer link would be linked to a budget of some kind, so a national dealer type deal with Hyundai, Ford etc might help you with a yearly budget, maybe cheap parts if you need OE stuff, but there are not many of those either.
A team has to pay out a fair bit in wages, buy loads of kit, a premises, hospitality, who pays for that? either a rich team boss, or a combo of drivers and sponsors brining money in and the budget being carefully sorted pre season.
For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.
I would guess a manufacturer link would be linked to a budget of some kind, so a national dealer type deal with Hyundai, Ford etc might help you with a yearly budget, maybe cheap parts if you need OE stuff, but there are not many of those either.
LukeBrown66 said:
Most racing teams do NOT make money, they try and keep their heads above water, but think about it? the only ways you make money in motorsport are with prizemoney and sponsorship, people dont just give you money for stuff, most of that is for drivers, personal sponsors etc and a lot of that is kit.
A team has to pay out a fair bit in wages, buy loads of kit, a premises, hospitality, who pays for that? either a rich team boss, or a combo of drivers and sponsors brining money in and the budget being carefully sorted pre season.
For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.
I would guess a manufacturer link would be linked to a budget of some kind, so a national dealer type deal with Hyundai, Ford etc might help you with a yearly budget, maybe cheap parts if you need OE stuff, but there are not many of those either.
that's a load of BS I am afraid, If you are a professional team, you should be making money. A few years ago I looked at Clios on the BTCC as an option, most of the team were looking for 80-100k. However if you had a trailer, a van and 1 mechanic you could do it for about 30k (but that's after buying and selling the race car ). Where does the extra 60k come from? Also running three cars doesn't make you costs three times more expensive.A team has to pay out a fair bit in wages, buy loads of kit, a premises, hospitality, who pays for that? either a rich team boss, or a combo of drivers and sponsors brining money in and the budget being carefully sorted pre season.
For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.
I would guess a manufacturer link would be linked to a budget of some kind, so a national dealer type deal with Hyundai, Ford etc might help you with a yearly budget, maybe cheap parts if you need OE stuff, but there are not many of those either.
Some teams get deals on vans, road cars, tools, trucks and the like, from drivers or off their own back.
If the team is relatively small then it might register as little of no profit, but that's because the owner has trousered the surplus.
WSR haven't been racing for as long as they have by making no money.
stevemcs said:
Looks like Chilton has left his current team.
I thought that it didn’t sound too promising.In the Right car he is still a top ten contender though.
( Happier In FWD though).
Regarding the budgets though... I can’t see the hybrid systems being that cheap.
( At least they can scrap the weights)
Edited by Milkyway on Wednesday 3rd November 11:09
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
However if you had a trailer, a van and 1 mechanic you could do it for about 30k (but that's after buying and selling the race car ). Where does the extra 60k come from?
Workshop overheads, extra mechanics who may or not be full time to improve prep, replacing parts preventatively to improve prep, top quality race engineer to set the car up better, data engineer, engine refreshes, more brakes, extra tyres, testing, etc etc etc. Plus the best teams will also put a bit into presentation to try and attract sponsorshipYou get what you pay for in Motorsport, yes you can run a car cheap but you probably won’t be successful. Even the quick guys that are running them ‘smart’ so to speak will either be holding themselves back or spending more than you might expect.
Very few people get rich running a race team although there are a few to avoid that will take 100k but spend 20k on a shiny shop front and only spend 30k running the car
LukeBrown66 said:
For someone like Hamilton, he might say bring in 50k, that is huge for any race team. Hence why he is there.
Add a zero and you’ll probably be closer! Nick is also probably one of the few that actually brings more in sponsorship than he actually has to put into his race budgetThe Wookie said:
Very few people get rich running a race team although there are a few to avoid that will take 100k but spend 20k on a shiny shop front and only spend 30k running the car
There's a good/shocking story I've been told bout one current team on the grid doing exactly this. Not sure if the story ever came out publicly. As it's a Hard one to tell without giving away too many names I'll shut up. The Wookie said:
Workshop overheads, extra mechanics who may or not be full time to improve prep, replacing parts preventatively to improve prep, top quality race engineer to set the car up better, data engineer, engine refreshes, more brakes, extra tyres, testing, etc etc etc. Plus the best teams will also put a bit into presentation to try and attract sponsorship
You get what you pay for in Motorsport, yes you can run a car cheap but you probably won’t be successful. Even the quick guys that are running them ‘smart’ so to speak will either be holding themselves back or spending more than you might expect.
Very few people get rich running a race team although there are a few to avoid that will take 100k but spend 20k on a shiny shop front and only spend 30k running the car
it was a slightly facetious comment of mine. I get all the above, but how much of it is necessary? If everyone went racing with a van, trailer and one mechanic we'd see a lot more participants. In the Clio's I mentioned, they were doing rebuilds of the engine after every race, which seemed a touch unnecessary and not particularly auditable ( have you actually rebuilt my engine?).You get what you pay for in Motorsport, yes you can run a car cheap but you probably won’t be successful. Even the quick guys that are running them ‘smart’ so to speak will either be holding themselves back or spending more than you might expect.
Very few people get rich running a race team although there are a few to avoid that will take 100k but spend 20k on a shiny shop front and only spend 30k running the car
Year one of a new championship is the best time to go it alone, as no one knows the cars and you're not competing against experienced teams. There was a racer (Tim Bridgeman?) that won Formula BMW in its launch year who was a Dad and lad outfit and beat the pro teams. It didn't go down too well, and in actual fact you don't want lad and dads to win or else all the other competitors start questioning the value of a pro race team.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
it was a slightly facetious comment of mine. I get all the above, but how much of it is necessary? If everyone went racing with a van, trailer and one mechanic we'd see a lot more participants. In the Clio's I mentioned, they were doing rebuilds of the engine after every race, which seemed a touch unnecessary and not particularly auditable ( have you actually rebuilt my engine?).
Year one of a new championship is the best time to go it alone, as no one knows the cars and you're not competing against experienced teams. There was a racer (Tim Bridgeman?) that won Formula BMW in its launch year who was a Dad and lad outfit and beat the pro teams. It didn't go down too well, and in actual fact you don't want lad and dads to win or else all the other competitors start questioning the value of a pro race team.
Yeah but that’s the problem, by the time you’ve spent all the money on people and parts then having a truck and a decent setup isn’t just a logical (and not massive) step on it also becomes an expectation of good quality guys working for youYear one of a new championship is the best time to go it alone, as no one knows the cars and you're not competing against experienced teams. There was a racer (Tim Bridgeman?) that won Formula BMW in its launch year who was a Dad and lad outfit and beat the pro teams. It didn't go down too well, and in actual fact you don't want lad and dads to win or else all the other competitors start questioning the value of a pro race team.
Yes I agree you can put on a good show with a well home prepped car and a bit of savvy in a new series, but as soon as the bigger teams work it out themselves and start throwing guns at it it won’t be long before they’re chasing the diminishing returns and you get swamped.
Unfortunately that is a fact of life in national motorsport in general now, everything is a lot closer and more competitive.
When I was racing Caterham Superlights back in 2008 I had a team running my car mainly for safety as I was inexperienced as a mechanic/engineer, the budget was just over 15k all in: tyres, transport, prep, etc. The series failed a couple of years after because the cars were seen as too expensive to run.
These days you won’t threaten the top ten in the flagship Caterham championship without 100k at it. Things like throwing a freshly built diff in it every session are accepted to get an edge, it’s become the nature of the beast.
{Yes I agree you can put on a good show with a well home prepped car and a bit of savvy in a new series, but as soon as the bigger teams work it out themselves and start throwing guns at it it won’t be long before they’re chasing the diminishing returns and you get swamped.
Unfortunately that is a fact of life in national motorsport in general now, everything is a lot closer and more competitive. }
Rowbottom did it in Clio Cup with his dad with a van up against the top teams, In his first ever Clio race he put it on pole and in his last ever Clio race he was on pole it is rare but proves it can be done…..some good results in between too..
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