Brands Hatch Thread
Discussion
Piglet said:
I've explained why (according to what I've been told) the Clerk made his decision not to amend the timing screen.
You have just accused those involved of incompetance and not caring.
I wondered what your view was on the facts?
You have just accused those involved of incompetance and not caring.
I wondered what your view was on the facts?
Your view on why the timing screens were not amended was simply because you didn't think all teams had access to them and you try and create the view that the decision was taken late and there was no time to communicate.
I don't believe you.
As I said there was the ability to send the many pitlane marshalls to physically tell teams, use the tannoy system prior to the green flag lap. Ammend the timing screens and ammend the board at the end of the pitlane.
Everything you did was to re-enforce something you knew not to be true; even the commentators were told of the ammendment but told specially NOT to communcate this - why?
Were you party to this?
I was unfortunately unable to attend this event, but have spoken to a couple of people who were competing, and have read most of what has been posted on various relevant forums, and feel compelled to add my two cents!
Whilst cutting race durations to comply with television commitments or the timetables of the 'premier event' is nothing new - in the past few weeks the clio's were cut short so as not to mess up ITV's BTCC coverage, and channel 7 managed to upset Garth Tander by cutting short a V8 Supercar race to suit their rugby coverage (though lets not start arguing about the reasons or merits of each of these cases!) - what does seem utterly insane is the total lack of communication or fore-thought.
The first issue of the weekend could have so easily been avoided by informing all competitors in the drivers briefing that the race would (regardless of its start time) finish no later than <insert time>, and it is the responsibility of all competing teams to ensure compliance of the 70/30 rule (IMO Brands is an ideal track to do this due to its dirty big countdown clock). The decision to keep everyone in the dark, for whatever reason is completely unacceptable; not only because of the fact that there is now a championship at stake, but also because the amount of money spent by teams to enter the event warrants a certain level of professionalism from those in charge.
However I don't believe that this is the first time that a level of confusion as to the finish of a race has existed. Spa last year (for the team I was with at least!!) proved somewhat puzzling as to when the last lap had commenced, with (if I recall correctly) the chequered flag being waved for the winner with just over a minute remaining - whilst ending a race on the last complete lap that the leader can complete within the allotted time (this is how I presume it is calculated - please feel free to correct me) is fine for the front runners, but is no use to those competing in the lower classes and concentrating on their own race. My solution to this problem (provided the MSA do not prohibit this - don't have a blue book to hand) is to do the same as motorcycle races, and show a last lap flag - this will make it clear (to the drivers at least) as to when they have entered the last lap, and in the case of Saturdays race could have prevented some of the controversy.
Another issue (that had concerned me upon reading this years technical regulations) was the new pit stop timing system - My understanding of the old system was two-fold: 1) to ensure a reasonable amount of time was given to competitors to ensure 'safe' pit stops could be completed. 2) To provide an amount of 'equalization' with the higher classed cars being required to stop for longer, to give the lower classed cars a chance of staying 'in touch' of the leader. IMO not only does this new entry / exit system not only does away both of these benefits, but also has two further drawbacks: 1) as demonstrated in both races; it is very difficult for teams to accurately monitor how long the car is in the pits for. 2) It greatly benefits single driver entrants in these shorter races, which is not really in the spirit of the endurance nature of the club - surely single drivers should be required to stop, exit and re-enter their cars to level the playing field?
Whilst it is not for me to attribute blame for all of the mess created over the weekend, it does sadden me that so many potential issues have not been given enough consideration by the relevant parties, or indeed ironed out in previous non-championship years.
Whilst cutting race durations to comply with television commitments or the timetables of the 'premier event' is nothing new - in the past few weeks the clio's were cut short so as not to mess up ITV's BTCC coverage, and channel 7 managed to upset Garth Tander by cutting short a V8 Supercar race to suit their rugby coverage (though lets not start arguing about the reasons or merits of each of these cases!) - what does seem utterly insane is the total lack of communication or fore-thought.
The first issue of the weekend could have so easily been avoided by informing all competitors in the drivers briefing that the race would (regardless of its start time) finish no later than <insert time>, and it is the responsibility of all competing teams to ensure compliance of the 70/30 rule (IMO Brands is an ideal track to do this due to its dirty big countdown clock). The decision to keep everyone in the dark, for whatever reason is completely unacceptable; not only because of the fact that there is now a championship at stake, but also because the amount of money spent by teams to enter the event warrants a certain level of professionalism from those in charge.
However I don't believe that this is the first time that a level of confusion as to the finish of a race has existed. Spa last year (for the team I was with at least!!) proved somewhat puzzling as to when the last lap had commenced, with (if I recall correctly) the chequered flag being waved for the winner with just over a minute remaining - whilst ending a race on the last complete lap that the leader can complete within the allotted time (this is how I presume it is calculated - please feel free to correct me) is fine for the front runners, but is no use to those competing in the lower classes and concentrating on their own race. My solution to this problem (provided the MSA do not prohibit this - don't have a blue book to hand) is to do the same as motorcycle races, and show a last lap flag - this will make it clear (to the drivers at least) as to when they have entered the last lap, and in the case of Saturdays race could have prevented some of the controversy.
Another issue (that had concerned me upon reading this years technical regulations) was the new pit stop timing system - My understanding of the old system was two-fold: 1) to ensure a reasonable amount of time was given to competitors to ensure 'safe' pit stops could be completed. 2) To provide an amount of 'equalization' with the higher classed cars being required to stop for longer, to give the lower classed cars a chance of staying 'in touch' of the leader. IMO not only does this new entry / exit system not only does away both of these benefits, but also has two further drawbacks: 1) as demonstrated in both races; it is very difficult for teams to accurately monitor how long the car is in the pits for. 2) It greatly benefits single driver entrants in these shorter races, which is not really in the spirit of the endurance nature of the club - surely single drivers should be required to stop, exit and re-enter their cars to level the playing field?
Whilst it is not for me to attribute blame for all of the mess created over the weekend, it does sadden me that so many potential issues have not been given enough consideration by the relevant parties, or indeed ironed out in previous non-championship years.
C_D said:
The first issue of the weekend could have so easily been avoided by informing all competitors in the drivers briefing that the race would (regardless of its start time) finish no later than <insert time>, and it is the responsibility of all competing teams to ensure compliance of the 70/30 rule (IMO Brands is an ideal track to do this due to its dirty big countdown clock). The decision to keep everyone in the dark, for whatever reason is completely unacceptable; not only because of the fact that there is now a championship at stake, but also because the amount of money spent by teams to enter the event warrants a certain level of professionalism from those in charge.
Hi chap, just to clear up the 'by informing all competitors in the drivers briefing' comment - and not slagging you off - this was made clear in the briefing, we were all told as drivers, team owners, managers etc. that the races would finish at the time piblisehd inthe program regardless of the start time. we all knew, it was VERY clear but i guess some didn't listen/hear however it certainly said. The clock on the pit exit was off putting but the facts were clear and the drivers sitting onthe grid dertainly knew that they were starting late as they'd be on the grid for 15mins! I was in radio contact with my driver who kept asking what the hold up was as he was roasting his whatnots off in the car!
Additional comms could have been provided, either on the timing screens, over the PA system, buy note from race control etc. but we were all in the same boat and heard the same messages.
The pit stop of 60secs from pit in to pit out is new this season but can be made to work - it was fine at the first race this year at Silverstone. We got caught out once with 4 stops and by 1 second but we had to take the 1min pen like everyone else who was said to have short stopped
Thanks for the correction, as I said at the start of my ramble (it did look shorter in the preview honest!) unfortunately I was unable to attend this event, so my information is second hand at best!!
I only felt compelled to finally sign up and comment, because I feel that its such a shame that so many events (in what could otherwise be an exceptional championship) seem to be be blighted by such ridiculous issues.
I only felt compelled to finally sign up and comment, because I feel that its such a shame that so many events (in what could otherwise be an exceptional championship) seem to be be blighted by such ridiculous issues.
mattbmw said:
Any shots of our car Paul, no.3 ? Cheers!
Since Paul hasn't posted his link yet you can have a look at mine...
www.isadorapoggi.co.uk/2007/eerc/eerc2.htm
Izzy
mattbmw said:
The car looks great Steve. Any shots of our car Paul, no.3 ? Cheers!
Hi Matt. Check out the gallery on www.eerc.co.uk
But thats sadly the point...in this case the pit lane timing board DID tally with the timing screen and so one re-enforces the other. Its a fair comment you make about the race finishing at a given time but then on which watch? Mine, yours, the Coc, which one - are we all to syncronise watches..
Ultimately it was a huge mess and all of the things that re-enforced the mess could have been solved with a bit of effort from the individuals running that race. Whomever those individuals are. The effort didn't come because, so what it makes no difference to them.
The race on Saturday should be scrapped from the championship results.
Ultimately it was a huge mess and all of the things that re-enforced the mess could have been solved with a bit of effort from the individuals running that race. Whomever those individuals are. The effort didn't come because, so what it makes no difference to them.
The race on Saturday should be scrapped from the championship results.
Some sort of official reply/comment from the EERC might be in order, either on here or on the EERC website, considering the accusations flying around?
Especially regarding the Saturday race.
By the way, this week's Motorsport News's coverage of your event last weekend is a disgrace even by their standards!
Especially regarding the Saturday race.
By the way, this week's Motorsport News's coverage of your event last weekend is a disgrace even by their standards!
The bit I don't understand... and I wasn't there, is...
- race length cut again - fine - everyone told in the briefing
- race length not altered on timeing screen = duff decision - if everyone knew the race was shorter it's up to them to recalc their pit window - not rocket science. Leaving the timing screen as it was and effectivly changing the pit window policy seems dumb and not neccessary. Don't see the plus side of that decision.
- race length cut again - fine - everyone told in the briefing
- race length not altered on timeing screen = duff decision - if everyone knew the race was shorter it's up to them to recalc their pit window - not rocket science. Leaving the timing screen as it was and effectivly changing the pit window policy seems dumb and not neccessary. Don't see the plus side of that decision.
2priestsferrari said:
But thats sadly the point...in this case the pit lane timing board DID tally with the timing screen and so one re-enforces the other. Its a fair comment you make about the race finishing at a given time but then on which watch? Mine, yours, the Coc, which one - are we all to syncronise watches..
Ultimately it was a huge mess and all of the things that re-enforced the mess could have been solved with a bit of effort from the individuals running that race. Whomever those individuals are. The effort didn't come because, so what it makes no difference to them.
The race on Saturday should be scrapped from the championship results.
Ultimately it was a huge mess and all of the things that re-enforced the mess could have been solved with a bit of effort from the individuals running that race. Whomever those individuals are. The effort didn't come because, so what it makes no difference to them.
The race on Saturday should be scrapped from the championship results.
I agree with you, who's watch was supposed to be used, a complete shambles. There should at least have been a 1 lap warning. DJR showed the rest of the field what a class act they are. Well done guys.
ctrdevelopments said:
kaz9827 said:
Just thought I would join in and say it was great to see DJR Racing on Pole Position on Sunday. Great Driving by Jay, left everyone else standing still. Keep up the good work,
What about Richard Chamberlain and the 935 Clone???? OK he didnt finish but.......
Absolutley what a flyer, a force to be recond with. Watch our Topcats!!!!
PaulJC said:
kaz9827 said:
Just thought I would join in and say it was great to see DJR Racing on Pole Position on Sunday. Great Driving by Jay, left everyone else standing still. Keep up the good work,
Why did they have to pit before the start?
Team proved a point and Driver David Longstaff decided to use the second race as a further test for the car. Team were not competing for points at this meeting so a great opportunity for further testing in race conditions.
Where's Woodie's Race Reports, nearly a week now and still nothing on the Website!
www.eerc.co.uk/cms/news.php
Has he been gagged by James?
www.eerc.co.uk/cms/news.php
Has he been gagged by James?
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