Discussion
teamHOLDENracing said:
I'm not a fan of meetings where everything is squashed into one day. I'd much rather have optional free practice or testing on a Friday, pratice/qually on Sat morning, Race 1 Sat afternoon, a couple of quiet sherberts with me mates in the evening, Race 2 Sunday, home for tea and muffins Sunday night
That`s my kind of racing, Friday & Sat night chewing the fat in the hospitality tent delivering excuses for today and promises for tomorrow. Where do I sign up ?Henry
Henry-F said:
teamHOLDENracing said:
I'm not a fan of meetings where everything is squashed into one day. I'd much rather have optional free practice or testing on a Friday, pratice/qually on Sat morning, Race 1 Sat afternoon, a couple of quiet sherberts with me mates in the evening, Race 2 Sunday, home for tea and muffins Sunday night
That`s my kind of racing, Friday & Sat night chewing the fat in the hospitality tent delivering excuses for today and promises for tomorrow. Where do I sign up ?Henry
Maybe the EERC should invest in one of these, we can arrange a discount to trade price, through Jan's contacts, it's a family thing !!
http://www.rototest.com/rototest-dynamometer.php
http://www.rototest.com/rototest-dynamometer.php
The Rototest kit is a very elegant example of Swedish engineering, to my knowledge there are just a few installations in the UK, but many more examples of the very well priced Kiwi built Dynapack machines.... www.dynapack.com
Regards, Don.Norchi.
Regards, Don.Norchi.
I think Henry and I are more concerned about the selection of beer supplier than these dyno thingammies
The Dutch had excellent beer but it took me at least 16 halves before I finally mastered the art of pulling a fizzy metric 'pint'. Naturally I did the decent thing and consumed my unsuccessful attempts....
The Dutch had excellent beer but it took me at least 16 halves before I finally mastered the art of pulling a fizzy metric 'pint'. Naturally I did the decent thing and consumed my unsuccessful attempts....
Henry will no doubt remember the at Spa when we lost the bottle opener and my flip flops.... Simon mananged to train us how to open a bottle of Bud with another bottle of Bud... We practiced on 148 bottles and naturally had to drink the open ones!
I am not sure if you would see this in British GT.....
at Spa when we lost the bottle opener and my flip flops.... Simon mananged to train us how to open a bottle of Bud with another bottle of Bud... We practiced on 148 bottles and naturally had to drink the open ones!I am not sure if you would see this in British GT.....
Edited by Bellly on Wednesday 26th September 16:28
Alec, I am not sure I have advocated a free for all in the top class - I would much rather the EERC police its present regulations.
If the EERC designated a rolling road for power tests and just took random cars for post race scrutiny I believe the whole power to weight issue would be effectively stopped. OK, many ECUs store multiple engine maps but most rolling roads can interogate the different make ECUs and the power test should be from the map that produces the most power. This is the figure that should be taken in calculating the power to weight ratio.
I am tempted to say its simple but I suspect its not quite so easy in practice. However, I know of a number of championships that do exactly this and they seem to stay on top of this form of cheating.
So, in my opinion its all down to the EERC. It is their championship and they are responsible for it. Lets hope they can publish the 2008 regulations and I honestly hope they will make a REAL effort to police them.
Cheers,
Richard.
If the EERC designated a rolling road for power tests and just took random cars for post race scrutiny I believe the whole power to weight issue would be effectively stopped. OK, many ECUs store multiple engine maps but most rolling roads can interogate the different make ECUs and the power test should be from the map that produces the most power. This is the figure that should be taken in calculating the power to weight ratio.
I am tempted to say its simple but I suspect its not quite so easy in practice. However, I know of a number of championships that do exactly this and they seem to stay on top of this form of cheating.
So, in my opinion its all down to the EERC. It is their championship and they are responsible for it. Lets hope they can publish the 2008 regulations and I honestly hope they will make a REAL effort to police them.
Cheers,
Richard.
Belly, actually it was 178 bottles we opened, we only drank 148! It was a bit disappointing really as we consumed far more than that at the other meetings....how the F*CK did we win when we were so p155ed all this time? See..... then is good for you!
Happy Days!
then is good for you!Happy Days!
Edited by Simon Leith on Wednesday 26th September 16:51
The five pint challenge cup !
I had no part in the Spa drinking incident and was held virtual hostage until I eventually managed to break free and return to my motorhome for the evening.
The same was true at Silverstone this year.
And Brands Hatch.
And the other Brands Hatch meeting as well.
I think a championship needs a few upstanding citizens such as my good self to set an example in the hope others may follow. A small sherry at Christmas & that`s my lot thank you very much.
I would love to see a rototester at the circuit. How much would such a device cost with your massive family discount (email me a price if you wish). I know James has been quoted around £1,500 per meeting to have a dyno tester attend and it would certainly show your intention to police things properly.
Test on a performance targeted basis guided by the relative success of cars. If a car sets a time that is clearly faster than others in it`s group then you haul it in for a quick whizz. The chassis dynos don`t suffer wheel spin and seem to do the job quickly. With power being measured at the wheel rather than the flywheel you also negate any advantage expensive fancy gearboxes may give you. A cost saving.
Seems simple if you do have a dyno at the circuit. No risk of damage in transit to the rolling road, no risk of tampering between the track and the test and it`s done in plain view for all to see. You could even have your car tested yourself so you could then make sure you comply with enough weight in the car. x bhp times your class "ratio" gives you your minimum weight. Bingo. A bit of a margin because we don`t want to be seen to be overly harsh providing the wick is turned down before the next meeting and it`s still fun.
You don`t even necessarily need to do every round (although it would be favourite).
Had James on the phone today and he`s clearly thinking of ways forward, some good ideas, some maybe not but at least he`s trying to move forward. Re: hospitality I`m undecided as to whether you need to provide 3 square meals a day for everyone. Obviously it would be lovely but the cost has to be found from somewhere. Obviously we`ll need karaoke at night as well as some wheels of steel for MC Tucker to spin the platters that matter.
Oh, and yes I think all the classes need to be controlled with a max power to weight ratio otherwise class 1 becomes untenable.
Henry
I had no part in the Spa drinking incident and was held virtual hostage until I eventually managed to break free and return to my motorhome for the evening.
The same was true at Silverstone this year.
And Brands Hatch.
And the other Brands Hatch meeting as well.
I think a championship needs a few upstanding citizens such as my good self to set an example in the hope others may follow. A small sherry at Christmas & that`s my lot thank you very much.
I would love to see a rototester at the circuit. How much would such a device cost with your massive family discount (email me a price if you wish). I know James has been quoted around £1,500 per meeting to have a dyno tester attend and it would certainly show your intention to police things properly.
Test on a performance targeted basis guided by the relative success of cars. If a car sets a time that is clearly faster than others in it`s group then you haul it in for a quick whizz. The chassis dynos don`t suffer wheel spin and seem to do the job quickly. With power being measured at the wheel rather than the flywheel you also negate any advantage expensive fancy gearboxes may give you. A cost saving.
Seems simple if you do have a dyno at the circuit. No risk of damage in transit to the rolling road, no risk of tampering between the track and the test and it`s done in plain view for all to see. You could even have your car tested yourself so you could then make sure you comply with enough weight in the car. x bhp times your class "ratio" gives you your minimum weight. Bingo. A bit of a margin because we don`t want to be seen to be overly harsh providing the wick is turned down before the next meeting and it`s still fun.
You don`t even necessarily need to do every round (although it would be favourite).
Had James on the phone today and he`s clearly thinking of ways forward, some good ideas, some maybe not but at least he`s trying to move forward. Re: hospitality I`m undecided as to whether you need to provide 3 square meals a day for everyone. Obviously it would be lovely but the cost has to be found from somewhere. Obviously we`ll need karaoke at night as well as some wheels of steel for MC Tucker to spin the platters that matter.
Oh, and yes I think all the classes need to be controlled with a max power to weight ratio otherwise class 1 becomes untenable.
Henry
Henry-F said:
I would love to see a rototester at the circuit. How much would such a device cost with your massive family discount (email me a price if you wish). I know James has been quoted around £1,500 per meeting to have a dyno tester attend and it would certainly show your intention to police things properly.
Dynapack is the other hub dyno you can do this with...only downside is you need addaptors for all the different wheel fixings (centre-lok are a real PITA).
decent capacity ones are ~£35-40K to buy, that said, they are good, very repeatable.
Not much hope for me and my ancient H & F GB4 Dyno then (1000bhp @ 9000rpm)
I really must get it installed.
These hub dyno's are getting very clever now, and there are some pretty clever jobbies like the powerlogger out there - however for them to be accurate, as we have discussed, you need weight and drag figures in them to get it right, and who has their car's wind tunnel figures?
The old water brake still has it's uses. Keeping a workshop warm is one of them. Something these mass/inertia dyno's ain't that good at.
The use of an accurate dyno, at least once in the season, for all cars to "calibrate" the data-logger should be part of the rules. But I do feel that James is right to be worried about the packs of lawyers waiting for someone's engine to let go on such a dyno. Though engines that let go on dyno's will let go on the track just the same.
Rob.
I really must get it installed.
These hub dyno's are getting very clever now, and there are some pretty clever jobbies like the powerlogger out there - however for them to be accurate, as we have discussed, you need weight and drag figures in them to get it right, and who has their car's wind tunnel figures?
The old water brake still has it's uses. Keeping a workshop warm is one of them. Something these mass/inertia dyno's ain't that good at.
The use of an accurate dyno, at least once in the season, for all cars to "calibrate" the data-logger should be part of the rules. But I do feel that James is right to be worried about the packs of lawyers waiting for someone's engine to let go on such a dyno. Though engines that let go on dyno's will let go on the track just the same.
Rob.
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