Schumacher - the chosen one
Discussion
The worst example of dirty, cynical tactics was by the glorious Ayrton Senna at Suzuka (91?) taking Prost off at the first corner at very high speed just because he knew Prost had to win the race to take the championship from him.
This same Ayrton Senna is now regarded as a god by almost all racing fans - I see no difference between this incident and the Schumacher/Hill fracas (except for being "acted out" at roughly 4 times the speed) so why will no-one forgive Schuey? Call me a cynic but could it be because he is alive and German?
This same Ayrton Senna is now regarded as a god by almost all racing fans - I see no difference between this incident and the Schumacher/Hill fracas (except for being "acted out" at roughly 4 times the speed) so why will no-one forgive Schuey? Call me a cynic but could it be because he is alive and German?
porky said:
This same Ayrton Senna is now regarded as a god by almost all racing fans - I see no difference between this incident and the Schumacher/Hill fracas (except for being "acted out" at roughly 4 times the speed) so why will no-one forgive Schuey? Call me a cynic but could it be because he is alive and German?
AND because of the bias of the media towards fashionable beliefs (Autosport etc). The 'opinion formers' are, sadly, far too successful.
Senna was a strange man - we are told that he believed God meant him to win, but if that was true God must often have regretted Senna's tactics.
Perhaps the best thing we can say is "judge not that ye be not judged", because we know so little.
schuey is a great driver but...
The team is totally built around him.
The car is built for him (schuey as a very particulary still of driving and the car is built for that) Irvine had to re learn how to drive Schuey style just to get the hang on it.
Bridgestone make tyres for ferrari - the other runners get the casts off !
Ferrari had to rely on making up a new rule on tyre widths so they could win the championships. And the FIA were held over the barrel with a threat of legal action that would screw the sport up and possibly led to the breakaway manufacturers championship taking the upper hand
Makes sense that Schuey won really.
A couple of years ago (b4 the winning streak) - virtually every decison went against mclaren during the championships - why because Ferrari were threatning to pull out of F1 - F1 without Ferrari was unthinkable. So Bernie turned the screws and Ferrari got their first title in x many years.
It's all to do with money and commercial rights
(mind u Ferrari did a bloody good job in the 3 years when they were pretty dominant !)
The team is totally built around him.
The car is built for him (schuey as a very particulary still of driving and the car is built for that) Irvine had to re learn how to drive Schuey style just to get the hang on it.
Bridgestone make tyres for ferrari - the other runners get the casts off !
Ferrari had to rely on making up a new rule on tyre widths so they could win the championships. And the FIA were held over the barrel with a threat of legal action that would screw the sport up and possibly led to the breakaway manufacturers championship taking the upper hand
Makes sense that Schuey won really.
A couple of years ago (b4 the winning streak) - virtually every decison went against mclaren during the championships - why because Ferrari were threatning to pull out of F1 - F1 without Ferrari was unthinkable. So Bernie turned the screws and Ferrari got their first title in x many years.
It's all to do with money and commercial rights
(mind u Ferrari did a bloody good job in the 3 years when they were pretty dominant !)
Senna was World Champion twice - 1988 and 1990.
Senna was quite an odd individual. He was very intense in his beliefs and felt that God was holding some sort of protecting hand over him. A bit of a selfish atitude really as it meant he thought God was treating him differently to everyone else. In the end of course, he was wrong.
Senna was quite an odd individual. He was very intense in his beliefs and felt that God was holding some sort of protecting hand over him. A bit of a selfish atitude really as it meant he thought God was treating him differently to everyone else. In the end of course, he was wrong.
RichB said:
In a couple of years he will be named with the likes of Fangio et al.
Why in a couple of years? If he's genuinly comparable to Fangio then why not now? Rich...
He's comparable to Fangio in numbers of championships, but not in the time taken to get them. IIRC Fangio won 5 times in just under 6 years of racing. Porky, the mine of all motoring knowledge will know exactly how much.
And lets remember - back then (even in the 70's) everytime those guys got in their cars they had 1/20 chance of not ever getting out again. Think the odds were alot less actually.
There's no comparrison.
Villeneuve is the only driver that is from the same "era".
There's no comparrison.
Villeneuve is the only driver that is from the same "era".
agent006 said:
hansgerd said:
In a couple of years he will be named with the likes of Fangio et al.
Why in a couple of years? If he's genuinly comparable to Fangio then why not now? Rich...
He's comparable to Fangio in numbers of championships, but not in the time taken to get them. IIRC Fangio won 5 times in just under 6 years of racing. Porky, the mine of all motoring knowledge will know exactly how much.
McNab said:
Another one for you condor 
In the days when private bathrooms were non-standard in hotels, two distinguished drivers amused themselves after a race with an extraordinary act of terrorism...
On their way back from a party they spotted some ducklings in a garden, and being a little the worse for wear thay decided they rather liked the poor little birdies, and promptly captured pocketfulls of them.
Took them up the hotel stairs to the first floor bathroom, filled the huge old-fashioned bath, gave them a swim, then decided to go for another drink.
After about half-an-hour there was a God awful crash. Bathroom door caved in. Ton of water descended to the lobby. Took most of the stairway with it - and the ducklings too
Silly sods forgot to turn off the tap
Vaguely recollect hearing that one too
Can't recall the drivers though....sounds a bit like a Berger and Senna story to me. Although Piquet did a lot of practical jokes as well...I know Berger got some guy to put a load of frogs in Senna's room....when Senna had some sort of frog phobia 
Here's another classic
After Michael and Ralf trashed the place....Kimi and Michael are supposed to have got into a fight
Full story here
http://www2.canoe.com/sports/nouvelles/archives/2003/10/20031014-072354.html
And this is the babelfish translation...
Schumacher and Raikkonen come from there to the blows
Martin Leclerc - Newspaper of Montreal
SUZUKA - The party of end of season in which the pilots took part and employees of the stables, in the night of Sunday to Monday, badly turned, one learned yesterday. Michael Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen came from there to the blows, revealed us three different sources.
Crossed at the station of Nagoya, of the employees of McLaren told in turn that the champion of the world and the pilot of McLaren had seriously empoignés themselves twice during the evening.
The first empoignade occurred inside Campanella, the establishment where the festival proceeded.
A sharp dispute occurred between the two men when éméché Raikkonen went to see Schumacher for him to say that he did not like his way of acting.
"You are my god, but I do not like the way in which you behave", several times have repeated the Finn, before clinging to the pilot of Ferrari, which then started to struggle with strength.
Schumacher also, says one, had largely misused the Bottle during the evening. Later, the two men found themselves outside to try to clarify the situation and, this time, the fixing was even more violent.
"Much of breakage"
The personnel of the two stables was forced to intervene to separate the two pilots.
"There was much breakage", declared an employee of McLaren.
Joint yesterday in Italy where it had just returned, Montréalais Gino Rosato too much did not want to comment on the history, but it confirmed it.
Person in charge for the safety of Schumacher, Rosato obviously found himself in the medium of this unusual brawl.
"All that I can say, it is that at a certain moment of the evening, Mr. Todt asked me to sit down beside Michael and more to leave it", declared Rosato.
At dawn, Schumacher and Raikkonen are finally stale with the same table. Firmly surrounded, they discussed during good half an hour and would have managed to settle their disagreement.
---
Have to say....loved the quote 'Schumacher also, says one, had largely misused the Bottle during the evening.'
After Michael and Ralf trashed the place....Kimi and Michael are supposed to have got into a fight
Full story here
http://www2.canoe.com/sports/nouvelles/archives/2003/10/20031014-072354.html
And this is the babelfish translation...
Schumacher and Raikkonen come from there to the blows
Martin Leclerc - Newspaper of Montreal
SUZUKA - The party of end of season in which the pilots took part and employees of the stables, in the night of Sunday to Monday, badly turned, one learned yesterday. Michael Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen came from there to the blows, revealed us three different sources.
Crossed at the station of Nagoya, of the employees of McLaren told in turn that the champion of the world and the pilot of McLaren had seriously empoignés themselves twice during the evening.
The first empoignade occurred inside Campanella, the establishment where the festival proceeded.
A sharp dispute occurred between the two men when éméché Raikkonen went to see Schumacher for him to say that he did not like his way of acting.
"You are my god, but I do not like the way in which you behave", several times have repeated the Finn, before clinging to the pilot of Ferrari, which then started to struggle with strength.
Schumacher also, says one, had largely misused the Bottle during the evening. Later, the two men found themselves outside to try to clarify the situation and, this time, the fixing was even more violent.
"Much of breakage"
The personnel of the two stables was forced to intervene to separate the two pilots.
"There was much breakage", declared an employee of McLaren.
Joint yesterday in Italy where it had just returned, Montréalais Gino Rosato too much did not want to comment on the history, but it confirmed it.
Person in charge for the safety of Schumacher, Rosato obviously found himself in the medium of this unusual brawl.
"All that I can say, it is that at a certain moment of the evening, Mr. Todt asked me to sit down beside Michael and more to leave it", declared Rosato.
At dawn, Schumacher and Raikkonen are finally stale with the same table. Firmly surrounded, they discussed during good half an hour and would have managed to settle their disagreement.
---
Have to say....loved the quote 'Schumacher also, says one, had largely misused the Bottle during the evening.'
McNab said:
Thanks condor. It's the only Pistonheads thread that's doing it - maybe I said something wrong and am being stretched on the rack for punishment! 
I'm sure that's not the case
I agreed with your earlier comments
Re: the cheating....It's a race...if you can get away with it...and if it's what's needed to win. Then of course...you do it.
Fangio v.Schumacher......... You cannot really compare drivers from different eras directly. The only direct comparison you can make is on the records. This means resorting to statistics!
Both drivers raced for an incomplete number of seasons (Fangio because of injury and retirement part way through 1958 and Schumacher because of injury and not starting until late in 1991) so the comparison is as follows:
Fangio won 47% of the races he started, Schumacher has won 36%. Fangio set pole position in 51% or the races he started, Schumacher set pole in 25%. Fangio was champion in 63% of his seasons, Schumacher in 46% of his.
This shows you can prove most things with statistics but it also shows what a remarkable driver Fangio was, particularly when you remember he also won sports car races (and many other formulae races) in his career while Schumacher has won only F1 races.
Having said that, I still feel we can only say they have each dominated their own era and we should regard them as truly remarkable.
Both drivers raced for an incomplete number of seasons (Fangio because of injury and retirement part way through 1958 and Schumacher because of injury and not starting until late in 1991) so the comparison is as follows:
Fangio won 47% of the races he started, Schumacher has won 36%. Fangio set pole position in 51% or the races he started, Schumacher set pole in 25%. Fangio was champion in 63% of his seasons, Schumacher in 46% of his.
This shows you can prove most things with statistics but it also shows what a remarkable driver Fangio was, particularly when you remember he also won sports car races (and many other formulae races) in his career while Schumacher has won only F1 races.
Having said that, I still feel we can only say they have each dominated their own era and we should regard them as truly remarkable.
Porky said:
Fangio v.Schumacher......... You cannot really compare drivers from different eras directly. The only direct comparison you can make is on the records.
Having said that, I still feel we can only say they have each dominated their own era and we should regard them as truly remarkable.
I edited out the middle bit....but left the bits I agreed with
Schumi has dominated this era...he has made Ferrari great again (with a little help)...and he's still alive
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