Discussion
Mid race advert break time for a quick post...
I have no respect for him. COmplaing to your team about a car infront being slower? As the engineer said to him... pass him them...
the timing of fisichella's hydraulic failiure was also very suspicious...
edit: can someone put "spoiler" in the title please? fwd?
>> Edited by D_Mike on Sunday 12th June 19:29
I have no respect for him. COmplaing to your team about a car infront being slower? As the engineer said to him... pass him them...
the timing of fisichella's hydraulic failiure was also very suspicious...
edit: can someone put "spoiler" in the title please? fwd?
>> Edited by D_Mike on Sunday 12th June 19:29
I think I agree with Ron Dennis (it's not often that this happens), a black flag is really rather uncontestable and wasn't really deserved... Also the rule Martin Brundle read out said something along the lines of "When the safety car is in the pit exit area... a driver may not exit the pit lane" didn't Montoya leave the pit lane well before the safety car was there?
Surely McLaren could have done more to prevent JPM's race being ruined, it shouldn't have been possible for him not to pit. Then, after the damage had been done, surely they should have been making him aware that he wasn't allowed to go straight back out onto the track?
Shame, as he had the legs of Kimi all weekend.
Shame, as he had the legs of Kimi all weekend.
2 Smokin Barrels said:
It was definitely a team fook up. They employ a strategist who should have told the lollipop man to hold him for 20 seconds.
Yeah, fair point but surely a red light at the end of pitlane means stop regardless of whether you're in a GP or a clubbie at Castle Combe. Wonder whether JPM will get a further punishment from the FIA, what with him being on probation after Monaco?
Trackside said:
It was definitely a team fook up. They employ a strategist who should have told the lollipop man to hold him for 20 seconds.
Yeah, fair point but surely a red light at the end of pitlane means stop regardless of whether you're in a GP or a clubbie at Castle Combe. Wonder whether JPM will get a further punishment from the FIA, what with him being on probation after Monaco?
If you rely on the team, and the adrenaline is pumping I doubt the light came into sight!
At Canada... he was faster than Raikonnen all weekend, was leading the race and skillfully stopped the car sliding into the wall after he gave it a bit too much throttle trying to make sure he made it out infront of the renault...
The safety car came out and a very last minute call by the team, over a radio you can hardly hear because you have a 140dB engine revving its nuts off about 20cm behind your head was misinterpreted by JPM. He pitted anyway and both JPM _and the team_ failed to notice the red light (its not normally on during the race!). Stewards gave him a rather unfair black flag...
The safety car came out and a very last minute call by the team, over a radio you can hardly hear because you have a 140dB engine revving its nuts off about 20cm behind your head was misinterpreted by JPM. He pitted anyway and both JPM _and the team_ failed to notice the red light (its not normally on during the race!). Stewards gave him a rather unfair black flag...
JPM just seems to be the enemy of the FIA - how often has he been in with a chance of a good result (race or championship) when they have decided to take action which ruins things for him.
Sure he makes mistakes, but because he tries - the exit from teh pit lane yesterday was a true racer showing. He was trying to get in front and slightly overdid it, but the car control in avoiding the wall was the sign of someone who really knew what he was doing in the car. He would have had no knowledge of the grip levels on that part of the track, but went for it anyway so he has my respect.
When are the FIA going to allow us racing - JPM had lost position to Kimi anyway, so we could have had a good figth on there.
.............Oh, sorry, forgot that disqualifying JPM allowed 2 Ferraris into the top three didn't it. Surely no coincidence there.
Sure he makes mistakes, but because he tries - the exit from teh pit lane yesterday was a true racer showing. He was trying to get in front and slightly overdid it, but the car control in avoiding the wall was the sign of someone who really knew what he was doing in the car. He would have had no knowledge of the grip levels on that part of the track, but went for it anyway so he has my respect.
When are the FIA going to allow us racing - JPM had lost position to Kimi anyway, so we could have had a good figth on there.
.............Oh, sorry, forgot that disqualifying JPM allowed 2 Ferraris into the top three didn't it. Surely no coincidence there.
andyps said:
...the exit from the pit lane yesterday was a true racer showing. He was trying to get in front and slightly overdid it...
Rubbish. You don't exit the pits when the red light is on. Ever. It's there for your own safety. The black flag was entirely deserved IMO. I also think that his team should be keeping him in check, especially if he is (rightly or wrongly) the supject of a "last warning recently.
Edited to say: This is on the assumption that the red light was on when the SC is on the pit straight as it should have been, and the FIA didn't screw up.
Pete
>> Edited by pistol pete on Monday 13th June 11:42
I found it quite interesting that the rule said when the safety car is in the vicinity of the pit lane or on the pit straight. JP was behind the safety car and then pitted. Therefore when he was exting the pitlane the safety car was already through the second corner and therefore I would not say it was in the vicinity of the pit lane.
However the red light was on so theres no real argument in JPs defence.
However the red light was on so theres no real argument in JPs defence.
I'm pretty sure I saw JPM slow at the end of the pitlane, then speed up. Maybe he saw the light but decided to go out or was told to go out.
Either way the saftey car was on the pit straight, passed the start finish line and was ahead of him before he had fully exited the pits so fully justified black flag.
Either way the saftey car was on the pit straight, passed the start finish line and was ahead of him before he had fully exited the pits so fully justified black flag.
pistol pete said:
...the exit from the pit lane yesterday was a true racer showing. He was trying to get in front and slightly overdid it...
Rubbish. You don't exit the pits when the red light is on. Ever. It's there for your own safety. The black flag was entirely deserved IMO. I also think that his team should be keeping him in check, especially if he is (rightly or wrongly) the supject of a "last warning recently.
Edited to say: This is on the assumption that the red light was on when the SC is on the pit straight as it should have been, and the FIA didn't screw up.
Pete
>> Edited by pistol pete on Monday 13th June 11:42
I was actually referring to his first pit stop when he tried to get ahead of Alonso as he left the pit.
Quite likely that the FIA did screw up, but what harm did he casue anyway, there was no accident becuase of his pit exit, and that rule punishes the leader of the chain more than anyone else so surely cannot be fair. If you were at the back of the chain behind the safety car you could pit, and regain your position without problem, but if you are at the front, you pit and join at the back. Surely that cannot be fair (even if it is the rule and everyone whould know it) - Martin Brundle obviously didn't know about it and couldn't find it when he was trying to see why JPM was under investigation.
pistol pete said:
...the exit from the pit lane yesterday was a true racer showing. He was trying to get in front and slightly overdid it...
Rubbish. You don't exit the pits when the red light is on. Ever. It's there for your own safety. The black flag was entirely deserved IMO. I also think that his team should be keeping him in check, especially if he is (rightly or wrongly) the supject of a "last warning recently.
Edited to say: This is on the assumption that the red light was on when the SC is on the pit straight as it should have been, and the FIA didn't screw up.
Pete
>> Edited by pistol pete on Monday 13th June 11:42
Quite.
The red light is on so so that a driver behind the safety car cant pit then exit before the safety car has passed then gain almost a whole lap on the field.
RedYellowGreen said:
Quite.
The red light is on so so that a driver behind the safety car cant pit then exit before the safety car has passed then gain almost a whole lap on the field.
The trouble is, as the rule was applied yesterday, it means that if they are at the front, they have to rejoin behind the whole field, allowing cars to unlap themselves.
Needs something sorting out, but until it penalises a Ferrari I guess it won't happen.
I would say traffic lights should be kept for town centres.
The biggest howler of the day - hotly contested with apparently most of the field getting it completely wrong at some point - came from Louise Goodman who had elected to interview Button with her suit around her waist.
Put 'em away Granny!
The biggest howler of the day - hotly contested with apparently most of the field getting it completely wrong at some point - came from Louise Goodman who had elected to interview Button with her suit around her waist.
Put 'em away Granny!FIA Sporting regs are pretty clear on this one. From article 149, section (i):
Unfortunately Montoya wasn't looking. It's a rule that's pretty universal in FIA racing. I can't remember what the Champ Car ruling is on this, but Montoya hasn't raced in the States for years (and was only there for two seasons anyway).
There would undoubtedly have been a huge dose of red mist and a lot of frustration about being called in second and losing vast amounts of track position, but he should've kept it together.
In McLaren's position, what would you do? If the cars had come in together and queued up, Raikkonen would've lost out hugely (10-12 seconds is a lot of places under an SC), so you have to give your title challenger the best chance - plus he was catching Montoya at quite a rate anyway and you could see his tyres were in considerably better condition.
It's one of those impossible decisions from a team's point of view - two cars running close together, in the lead, in the pit stop window, with an SC board while they were in the last sector of a pretty short lap (1:14ish).
Montoya, however, made the biggest error.
FIA F1 Sporting Regs said:
While the safety car is in operation, competing cars may enter the pit lane, but may only rejoin the
track when the green light at the end of the pit lane is on. It will be on at all times except when the
safety car and the line of cars following it are about to pass or are passing the pit exit . A car rejoining
the track must proceed at an appropriate speed until it reaches the end of the line of cars behind the
safety car.
Unfortunately Montoya wasn't looking. It's a rule that's pretty universal in FIA racing. I can't remember what the Champ Car ruling is on this, but Montoya hasn't raced in the States for years (and was only there for two seasons anyway).
There would undoubtedly have been a huge dose of red mist and a lot of frustration about being called in second and losing vast amounts of track position, but he should've kept it together.
In McLaren's position, what would you do? If the cars had come in together and queued up, Raikkonen would've lost out hugely (10-12 seconds is a lot of places under an SC), so you have to give your title challenger the best chance - plus he was catching Montoya at quite a rate anyway and you could see his tyres were in considerably better condition.
It's one of those impossible decisions from a team's point of view - two cars running close together, in the lead, in the pit stop window, with an SC board while they were in the last sector of a pretty short lap (1:14ish).
Montoya, however, made the biggest error.
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