London to Leeds, M1 or A1(m)

London to Leeds, M1 or A1(m)

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mph1977

12,467 posts

174 months

Monday 30th March 2015
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Gompo said:
mph1977 said:
I would suggest the fact it's Good Friday probably has a bigger impact on the availability of cheap advance tickets than the Stagecoach managed virgin branded take over of east coast ...
Ticket costs for journeys I used to make every month or so have risen since Virgin's takeover. It too has made me consider driving more, particularly with the lower fuel prices.

A1 for me too, I can understand why others may choose M1 though.
the conspiracy theorists would also suggest EC tickets to S + W Yorks have less need to be competitive now as the choice between EMT+ connections and EC+ connections is no longer a choice of operator ...

Conscript

1,378 posts

127 months

Monday 30th March 2015
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Red Devil said:
golfdsg said:
However google maps is suggesting that I take the A1m.
I would go M11/A14/A1(M) but the issue with going that way is the Dartford Crossing. Northbound still has the barriers in place and the tailbacks are as bad as ever. It was nearly back to J4 last Wednesday. There is a way to avoid it but it requires some local knowledge.
This isn't really true....the barriers are still in place, but the traffic situation has improved immensely. Long tailbacks are now definitely the exception rather than the rule. Last Wednesday was indeed awful, but that's because there was an accident on the other side of the tunnel (in fact, there was an accident three days in a row, which is pretty unusual).

All you can really do is to check before you travel to see if there have been any accidents reported, but generally the northbound crossing flows much more freely now, even at rush hour.

ChasW

2,136 posts

208 months

Monday 30th March 2015
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I always seem to run into problems somewhere when using the M1. A1 is a bit more interesting too.

Red Devil

13,183 posts

214 months

Monday 30th March 2015
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Conscript said:
Red Devil said:
golfdsg said:
However google maps is suggesting that I take the A1m.
I would go M11/A14/A1(M) but the issue with going that way is the Dartford Crossing. Northbound still has the barriers in place and the tailbacks are as bad as ever. It was nearly back to J4 last Wednesday. There is a way to avoid it but it requires some local knowledge.
This isn't really true....the barriers are still in place, but the traffic situation has improved immensely. Long tailbacks are now definitely the exception rather than the rule. Last Wednesday was indeed awful, but that's because there was an accident on the other side of the tunnel (in fact, there was an accident three days in a row, which is pretty unusual).
I now live within shouting distance of J1b (before that in Orpington) and beg to differ. If the OP leaves at 7am he will be travelling towards the Crossing just in time for the morning peak. The A232 from Keston Common to the A21 at Locksbottom won't be much fun either.

The improvement atm is all on the southbound carriageway of the A282 where the barriers were removed months ago.
Having local knowledge, I can avoid most congestion problems anti-clockwise from J4.

Conscript said:
All you can really do is to check before you travel to see if there have been any accidents reported, but generally the northbound crossing flows much more freely now, even at rush hour.
Actually there is an alternative if you have a decent internet connection on your phone/tablet.
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/choosecarriageway...

Gompo

4,506 posts

264 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
mph1977 said:
the conspiracy theorists would also suggest EC tickets to S + W Yorks have less need to be competitive now as the choice between EMT+ connections and EC+ connections is no longer a choice of operator ...
I can understand that. Without wanting to derail (sorry) the thread too much, my current experience is:

I am just travelling from Retford (between Newark and Doncaster) to KX; I'm on EC mainline so a good connection with no changes. The train I often get is the second one (that stops here) travelling south in the morning, it leaves Retford at 6.51. I've never paid more than £17 for this and done it a handful of times. Since the Virgin takeover, I've experimented with various days and with different time periods in advance - anywhere between 9 weeks and 3 weeks the price has been roughly the same, £28-9. Obviously it's not a massive jump, but it all adds up. I understand the previous price may have been too cheap for a train that gets into London before 9am, but the comparison stands.

Agree with all that the A1 is more interesting, I find it a little less stressful/more relaxing than the M1 - it will depend on how much of a rush you are in though.

golfdsg

Original Poster:

228 posts

133 months

Monday 30th March 2015
quotequote all
Gompo said:
mph1977 said:
the conspiracy theorists would also suggest EC tickets to S + W Yorks have less need to be competitive now as the choice between EMT+ connections and EC+ connections is no longer a choice of operator ...
I can understand that. Without wanting to derail (sorry) the thread too much, my current experience is:

I am just travelling from Retford (between Newark and Doncaster) to KX; I'm on EC mainline so a good connection with no changes. The train I often get is the second one (that stops here) travelling south in the morning, it leaves Retford at 6.51. I've never paid more than £17 for this and done it a handful of times. Since the Virgin takeover, I've experimented with various days and with different time periods in advance - anywhere between 9 weeks and 3 weeks the price has been roughly the same, £28-9. Obviously it's not a massive jump, but it all adds up. I understand the previous price may have been too cheap for a train that gets into London before 9am, but the comparison stands.

Agree with all that the A1 is more interesting, I find it a little less stressful/more relaxing than the M1 - it will depend on how much of a rush you are in though.
My experience is quite similar. Booking 2 weeks in advance London to Leeds used to be in the region of £25-£30. Now if I am booking tickets for May they are around £50+, 2 week advance tickets are £70

littlebasher

3,827 posts

177 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
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Having done the M1 / A1 slog many times, the A1 is a far better road even though it's down a lane (or two)

Also, it's the road that has my 'personal best' cruise control duration - set to 70 just after the speed Cameras near Worksop and untouched till i hit the M25

truck71

2,328 posts

178 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
littlebasher said:
Having done the M1 / A1 slog many times, the A1 is a far better road even though it's down a lane (or two)

Also, it's the road that has my 'personal best' cruise control duration - set to 70 just after the speed Cameras near Worksop and untouched till i hit the M25
Must have been interesting crossing the roundabouts in Bedfordshire. .

littlebasher

3,827 posts

177 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
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truck71 said:
Must have been interesting crossing the roundabouts in Bedfordshire. .
A14 M11

Conscript

1,378 posts

127 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
Conscript said:
Red Devil said:
golfdsg said:
However google maps is suggesting that I take the A1m.
I would go M11/A14/A1(M) but the issue with going that way is the Dartford Crossing. Northbound still has the barriers in place and the tailbacks are as bad as ever. It was nearly back to J4 last Wednesday. There is a way to avoid it but it requires some local knowledge.
This isn't really true....the barriers are still in place, but the traffic situation has improved immensely. Long tailbacks are now definitely the exception rather than the rule. Last Wednesday was indeed awful, but that's because there was an accident on the other side of the tunnel (in fact, there was an accident three days in a row, which is pretty unusual).
I now live within shouting distance of J1b (before that in Orpington) and beg to differ. If the OP leaves at 7am he will be travelling towards the Crossing just in time for the morning peak. The A232 from Keston Common to the A21 at Locksbottom won't be much fun either.

The improvement atm is all on the southbound carriageway of the A282 where the barriers were removed months ago.
Having local knowledge, I can avoid most congestion problems anti-clockwise from J4.
I work in Orpington and have commuted along the stretch from J4 - J2 every evening for the past two years. Since the very day that free flow tolling was introduced, the long tailbacks have all but disappeared, even during the traditionally busy Friday afternoon/evening period.

I admit that I can't speak as much for the morning commute (although I check traffic each morning and have noticed that it too is generally reported as flowing more freely), but I maintain that the traffic is much much better in the area as a whole. I used to find that the majority of my commutes, I was having to find a way home via the back lanes to rejoin the A2 at Pepper Hill, but since the changes, this only happens when there's an incident around the tunnel.

I even managed to cross the river on a Saturday lunch time this weekend, and it didn't take several hours. Who knew! Looking forward to even better improvements once the road layout changes are fully completed and the barriers removed completely (probably around the beginning of June, so I'm told).

Conscript

1,378 posts

127 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
Actually there is an alternative if you have a decent internet connection on your phone/tablet.
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/choosecarriageway...
Excellent!I had been using the BBC Travel Kent website to check cameras, but it's not exactly user friendly, especially on a mobile device. Buggy as hell, too.

Cheers for the link smile

mcgandalf

664 posts

161 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
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Jaypayne said:
A1 gets my vote. Look up the little divert to avoid the black cat roundabout and it's far better than the M1. That's based in doing the London to Harrogate commute for 3.5 years and I tried many a route
So what is this little diversion? Lanes through Blunham, Great Barford and Roxton?

Red Devil

13,183 posts

214 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
Conscript said:
I work in Orpington and have commuted along the stretch from J4 - J2 every evening for the past two years. Since the very day that free flow tolling was introduced, the long tailbacks have all but disappeared, even during the traditionally busy Friday afternoon/evening period.

I admit that I can't speak as much for the morning commute (although I check traffic each morning and have noticed that it too is generally reported as flowing more freely), but I maintain that the traffic is much much better in the area as a whole. I used to find that the majority of my commutes, I was having to find a way home via the back lanes to rejoin the A2 at Pepper Hill, but since the changes, this only happens when there's an incident around the tunnel.
Our respective experiences differ then.
Yours appears to be a daily commute at one or two specific time frames.
I travel in the area between 1b and 4 at several different times of the day.
Right now as I type this I'm looking at the cameras (see the link I posted) at J3.
Completely rammed and tailing back towards J4.
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/viewcamera/?motor...
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/viewcamera/?motor...
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/viewcamera/?motor...

Conscript said:
I even managed to cross the river on a Saturday lunch time this weekend, and it didn't take several hours. Who knew! Looking forward to even better improvements once the road layout changes are fully completed and the barriers removed completely (probably around the beginning of June, so I'm told).
Weekends are mostly a different proposition.

Conscript

1,378 posts

127 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
Our respective experiences differ then.
Yours appears to be a daily commute at one or two specific time frames.
I travel in the area between 1b and 4 at several different times of the day.
Right now as I type this I'm looking at the cameras (see the link I posted) at J3.
Completely rammed and tailing back towards J4.
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/viewcamera/?motor...
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/viewcamera/?motor...
http://www.motorwaycameras.co.uk/viewcamera/?motor...
I did concede that traffic is still a major problem when there's an incident around the tunnel and currently, the bridge is closed. That's why you're seeing massive tailbacks right now - one of the tunnels is being used for southbound traffic.

Also, although I'm referencing specific time frames, they are the busiest time frames of the day.

Red Devil said:
Weekends are mostly a different proposition.
Really? I'd always found weekends to be a nightmare in that area. I used to live in Stone and still visit the area regularly as my parents still live there, but excursions across the bridge have been made much easier since the changes. Hence my pleasure at being able to pop over to Thurrock with relative ease on Saturday.

I don't deny that traffic is still heavy in the area. Just your original statement that the tailbacks are as bad as ever. As you say, experiences may differ, but I just don't buy that. Sorry.

Edited by Conscript on Tuesday 31st March 12:32

golfdsg

Original Poster:

228 posts

133 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
So should I avoid the Dartford crossing, and go straight through London? I checked google maps from my starting point to the M11 and it was 1h30, which is during very heavy traffic on the M25 around the dartford crossing.

Im not sure which route to take to avoid that bit of traffic frown

truck71

2,328 posts

178 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
golfdsg said:
So should I avoid the Dartford crossing, and go straight through London? I checked google maps from my starting point to the M11 and it was 1h30, which is during very heavy traffic on the M25 around the dartford crossing.

Im not sure which route to take to avoid that bit of traffic frown
At 7am on good friday I'd take my chances on the tunnel, heading through town even on a BH can be a pain due to dead red time.

Jaypayne

10 posts

118 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
mcgandalf said:
So what is this little diversion? Lanes through Blunham, Great Barford and Roxton?
Yep that's the one, turn off left just after the speed camera and take the A603 (if memory serves) towards Bedford then you take the lanes which brings you out on the Black Cat roundabout but on the entry to the left of the A1. Normally saves you a good 20 minutes if it's busy.

vrsmxtb

2,002 posts

162 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
Conscript said:
Looking forward to even better improvements once the road layout changes are fully completed and the barriers removed completely (probably around the beginning of June, so I'm told).
I didn't think the barriers were coming down Northbound, due to needing a way of physically preventing traffic entering the tunnel if necessary. Or will they just be permanently open? Good news if so, the southbound is a breeze now as long as no muppet has broken down on the bridge which seems to be quite common at the moment.

Conscript

1,378 posts

127 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
golfdsg said:
So should I avoid the Dartford crossing, and go straight through London? I checked google maps from my starting point to the M11 and it was 1h30, which is during very heavy traffic on the M25 around the dartford crossing.

Im not sure which route to take to avoid that bit of traffic frown
The heavy traffic around the tunnel today is caused by the high winds, meaning the bridge was closed earlier, then operating at reduced capacity in the afternoon.
It's unlikely to be as bad on a normal day.

vrsmxtb said:
Conscript said:
Looking forward to even better improvements once the road layout changes are fully completed and the barriers removed completely (probably around the beginning of June, so I'm told).
I didn't think the barriers were coming down Northbound, due to needing a way of physically preventing traffic entering the tunnel if necessary. Or will they just be permanently open? Good news if so, the southbound is a breeze now as long as no muppet has broken down on the bridge which seems to be quite common at the moment.
The barriers are currently still in operation because they need a way to be able to halt over height vehicles entering the tunnel. However, they are currently building a system of traffic lights and vehicle height detectors to enable them to do this, but until it's fully operational, the barriers have to remain in place. Once in operation, the need for traffic to come to a complete stop will be gone.

golfdsg

Original Poster:

228 posts

133 months

Tuesday 31st March 2015
quotequote all
Conscript said:
golfdsg said:
So should I avoid the Dartford crossing, and go straight through London? I checked google maps from my starting point to the M11 and it was 1h30, which is during very heavy traffic on the M25 around the dartford crossing.

Im not sure which route to take to avoid that bit of traffic frown
The heavy traffic around the tunnel today is caused by the high winds, meaning the bridge was closed earlier, then operating at reduced capacity in the afternoon.
It's unlikely to be as bad on a normal day.

vrsmxtb said:
Conscript said:
Looking forward to even better improvements once the road layout changes are fully completed and the barriers removed completely (probably around the beginning of June, so I'm told).
I didn't think the barriers were coming down Northbound, due to needing a way of physically preventing traffic entering the tunnel if necessary. Or will they just be permanently open? Good news if so, the southbound is a breeze now as long as no muppet has broken down on the bridge which seems to be quite common at the moment.
The barriers are currently still in operation because they need a way to be able to halt over height vehicles entering the tunnel. However, they are currently building a system of traffic lights and vehicle height detectors to enable them to do this, but until it's fully operational, the barriers have to remain in place. Once in operation, the need for traffic to come to a complete stop will be gone.
oh ok, should be fine on Friday then, Im looking forward to seeing no traffic haha biggrin