No Lights On Motorway

[Riley Blue]

Apparently lit motorways are safer motorways:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19452370/

https://www.bewiser.co.uk/news/car-insurance/motor...

https://saferroadsconference.com/wp-content/upload...

https://trid.trb.org/view/290179

I recall that many years ago Philips offered to provide, completely free of charge, street lights for the whole of the M25 but the government department responsible for it at the time turned it down. Since then more and more of the M25 has been lit.

[FiF]

Riley Blue said:

Apparently lit motorways are safer motorways:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19452370/

https://www.bewiser.co.uk/news/car-insurance/motor...

https://saferroadsconference.com/wp-content/upload...

https://trid.trb.org/view/290179

I recall that many years ago Philips offered to provide, completely free of charge, street lights for the whole of the M25 but the government department responsible for it at the time turned it down. Since then more and more of the M25 has been lit.

That first link was interesting as it stated road lighting had no effect on collision stats in fog from survey on Dutch motorways. Interesting because the many of the early installations on UK motorways in the 60s was on sections prone to fog and weather related collisions, eg M1 around Trowell, before I was old enough to drive that one.

[Pica-Pica]

With no street lights present, think of when driving a single carriageway with cats-eyes and a white-line edge-of-carriageway marker. The cats-eyes and edge-marker make a hell of a difference.

[captain.scarlet]

MrSpanky49 said:

i find it easier when unllit tbh. I find depth perception easier without street lights for some reason.

Thinking of it, perhaps pulling out on a slip road, trunk road NSL T-junction etc can be safer when the road is lit because of likely depth perception problems in those particular scenarios.

It can be easier to potentially confuse a vehicle's speed or misjudge a driver's intentions, and also warn of exiting traffic.

I could be wrong (in which case someone in the know please correct me), but maybe this explains why (separate to motorway junctions) on trunk road NSL T-junctions in the middle of nowhere there will a bunch of street lights just where the junction is before the road is completely unlit and pitch black again.

[Rich Boy Spanner]

Unlit M/Ways are more tiring on the eyes and lead to earlier fatigue. That in itself is a safety reducer. The superheroes with the trite 'cars have headlights' statements obviously have superhuman eyesight. You can see debris far earlier on a lit motorway than unlit. Things arrive fast at 70 MPH in the range of headlights. I've been driving M/Ways overnight since 1989.

[Toltec]

Rich Boy Spanner said:

Unlit M/Ways are more tiring on the eyes and lead to earlier fatigue. That in itself is a safety reducer. The superheroes with the trite 'cars have headlights' statements obviously have superhuman eyesight. You can see debris far earlier on a lit motorway than unlit. Things arrive fast at 70 MPH in the range of headlights. I've been driving M/Ways overnight since 1989.

Drive at a speed set by the distance you can see to be clear still applies. As someone mentioned above using preceeding cars light to give you that helps. You could still get a random deer run across after the leading car of course.

When you have a clear road, but oncoming traffic means you cannot use main beam is the trickier situation. Installing Shields on the divider so you can use main beam would be better than lights from an efficiency and pollution perspective.

Getting tired is just something you have to allow for in your journey plan.

[FiF]

Toltec said:

Rich Boy Spanner said:

Unlit M/Ways are more tiring on the eyes and lead to earlier fatigue. That in itself is a safety reducer. The superheroes with the trite 'cars have headlights' statements obviously have superhuman eyesight. You can see debris far earlier on a lit motorway than unlit. Things arrive fast at 70 MPH in the range of headlights. I've been driving M/Ways overnight since 1989.

Drive at a speed set by the distance you can see to be clear still applies. As someone mentioned above using preceeding cars light to give you that helps. You could still get a random deer run across after the leading car of course.

When you have a clear road, but oncoming traffic means you cannot use main beam is the trickier situation. Installing Shields on the divider so you can use main beam would be better than lights from an efficiency and pollution perspective.

Getting tired is just something you have to allow for in your journey plan.

I'd be interested to know what the set with the ' cars have headlights' and 'drive to the conditions' group think how far their dipped headlights realistically illuminate a completely unlit surface, and then compare that to stopping distances. Do they really stick to that.

30m? 40m? 45m? 50m?

Maybe 45 to 50m for the modern types with a motorway setting that lifts the n/s beam a little. Less for basic lights.

Stopping distance 50mph 53 metres.

Cue usual bleating that's for a Ford Anglia on cross plies.

Think some are kidding themselves.

[Toltec]

FiF said:

Toltec said:

Rich Boy Spanner said:

Unlit M/Ways are more tiring on the eyes and lead to earlier fatigue. That in itself is a safety reducer. The superheroes with the trite 'cars have headlights' statements obviously have superhuman eyesight. You can see debris far earlier on a lit motorway than unlit. Things arrive fast at 70 MPH in the range of headlights. I've been driving M/Ways overnight since 1989.

Drive at a speed set by the distance you can see to be clear still applies. As someone mentioned above using preceeding cars light to give you that helps. You could still get a random deer run across after the leading car of course.

When you have a clear road, but oncoming traffic means you cannot use main beam is the trickier situation. Installing Shields on the divider so you can use main beam would be better than lights from an efficiency and pollution perspective.

Getting tired is just something you have to allow for in your journey plan.

I'd be interested to know what the set with the ' cars have headlights' and 'drive to the conditions' group think how far their dipped headlights realistically illuminate a completely unlit surface, and then compare that to stopping distances. Do they really stick to that.

30m? 40m? 45m? 50m?

Maybe 45 to 50m for the modern types with a motorway setting that lifts the n/s beam a little. Less for basic lights.

Stopping distance 50mph 53 metres.

Cue usual bleating that's for a Ford Anglia on cross plies.

Think some are kidding themselves.

I have backed off to 60mph or less if I'm not happy with how much of the road I can see. Sometimes angles and conditions mean you don't get much from lights on vehicles on the other side. Just because I have never had to avoid a deer, pedestrian, debris or stopped vehicle does not mean it cannot happen.

If someone catches and passes then you have a road sweeper to follow.

I really like the idea of having something with matrix lights at some point. The ones on Polestar look pretty good for example.

[Mr Tidy]

I prefer Motorways that don't have lights!

I don't need the lights and they are usually far less likely to be "Smart" with gantries and cameras every mile or so.

Love the M40 from Brum down to High Wycombe as most of it has no lights, gantries or cameras and wearing my specs or contact lenses I can see just fine.

Maybe get an eye-test?

[Dingu]

FiF said:

I'd be interested to know what the set with the ' cars have headlights' and 'drive to the conditions' group think how far their dipped headlights realistically illuminate a completely unlit surface, and then compare that to stopping distances. Do they really stick to that.

30m? 40m? 45m? 50m?

Maybe 45 to 50m for the modern types with a motorway setting that lifts the n/s beam a little. Less for basic lights.

Stopping distance 50mph 53 metres.

Cue usual bleating that's for a Ford Anglia on cross plies.

Think some are kidding themselves.

Anyone who can’t manage driving on an unlit motorway should seriously consider their fitness to drive.

[Mr Tidy]

Dingu said:

Anyone who can’t manage driving on an unlit motorway should seriously consider their fitness to drive.

Exactly!

Or stay at home please.

[fttm]

NRG1976 said:

fttm said:

NRG1976 said:

Cats eyes good. Motorway lighting not good.

First world problem, we have neither where I live but surprisingly life goes on .

Ok bro, you are a hero amongst us fools.

Thanks for the compliment bro , very humbling xx

[FiF]

Dingu said:

Anyone who can’t manage driving on an unlit motorway should seriously consider their fitness to drive.

How is that a helpful comment when the general tenor of comments and discussion is along the line of different conditions need to be recognised and different approaches may well be useful.

[Pit Pony]

Ashtray83 said:

Cars have lights. Drive to the conditions

My wife no longer drives at night. (If she can avoid it. And she tries to avoid it)

Her eye sight is fine.


The brightness of other cars lights, combined with lack of street lighting makes it difficult for her to believe its safe. Add into the mix the number of potholes and worn out traffic calming measures, (obviously motorways don't have the later) and having lights actually doesn't help.

I reckon if cars only had side lights it would be better. Our eyes could get used to the dark.


I was on a motorway recently, with street lamps. It was great. Safe. Lots of visibility. All of a sudden the lights disappear. What I can now say: Its definately better to have street lamps.

Especially if its raining. As well.

[Pit Pony]

At work we are working on systems for automatic emergency braking on trucks. Combination of Radar, camera technology including IR and sonar (just in case you are under water)

In my opinion, if road lighting were better, some of the issue they are trying to solve, with legislation looming, wouldn't be an issue at all.

That gets me thinking. Where can I buy Military spec night vision goggles ?

[Hubris]

I HATE light pollution with a passion, and sadly we have some of the worst.

Any decision to reduce it gets my approval.

As said, cars have lights.

[Griffith4ever]

Hubris said:

I HATE light pollution with a passion, and sadly we have some of the worst.

Any decision to reduce it gets my approval.

As said, cars have lights.

Same here re. Light pollution. We have a no light village which was wonderful then several villagers installed their own street lights in their gardens, messing it all up.

OP will have a coronary in Europe where there are usually no cats eyes either.

[galro]

Griffith4ever said:

OP will have a coronary in Europe where there are usually no cats eyes either.

Unless he/she visit the Norwegian part of Europe where lights are required on motorways.

[Aiminghigh123]

I spent many hours up and down motorways in the hours of darkness.
For me motorway lighting does help around busy junctions. Not much in it though. Can easily do without. I mean for a start 99.9% of the time your all going in the same direction. Drove up to Scotland a few times last year for work and sat on a pitch black motorway at 1am no vehicle in site as far as the eye can see felt pretty surreal.

If we going to get all environmental on it. Light pollution is terrible. Hong Kong is one of the worst cities in the world for light pollution. I can’t find the study now. They found birds in HK are dying through shear exhaustion. Some not sleeping for days.

[Smint]

Normal unlit motorway, no problem.

So called smart motorway where the hard shoulder is now a live lane i have always believed should be lit, or during hours of darkness the nearside lane should revert to hard shoulder, overhead and roadside electronic signs informing.
Yes i know working such things out is a bit too difficult these days, ie witness the number of fools who can't work out whether the left hand lane in West Mids M6 sections is live or not despite the overhead gantries providing information, thick as two planks and driving right up the chuff of the truck in fornt so they can't see a thing.

Why i believe smart motorways should be lit is the evidence of numerous unlit cars (and their unfortunate occupants) breaking down on such sections being cleaned up by trucks, which are almost the sole users of the left lane in smart sections at night, or any other time (granny lane the back to front empty baseball hatted would call the nearside lane)
Even at 50mph given standard dripped headlights the time to take evasive incl harsh braking action after registering an object is desperately short, if you're being overtaken at the time by another truck then a panic stop will be the only solution which still won't be enough, the driver who attempts to harsh brake and swerve a loaded truck at the same time is only going to end up jack knifed or rolling the lot or both, whatever happens when a truck is involved all the Ncap stars in the world account to the square root of bugger all.