Discussion
Sad to hear about people's shoddy attitudes, it's a beautiful area.
I'm itching to get back up to Scotland... though when we visit it always tends to involve renting the same house for a week and/or staying at the same two spots. I've done most of the NC500 but not too fussed about doing it again, there's better roads to enjoy the scenery/driving imho.
I think the NC500 is probably better suited to camping/touring than most supercars, at least certain bits of it are - i did a chunk in a defender and it was much more fun than the db11 i had at the time.
Sadly it's too far to do in the average-family-holiday-week without rushing it (which is what every UK petrolhead wants to do, or less), and really you kinda just want to hang out on/around the route for a few weeks and take part in some of the outdoor offerings - rather than just racing. I think the fact it's just about dooable means people rush to do it (which probably encourages a bit of a 'race' mentality, and limits the activity outside of merely driving between hotels).
I'm itching to get back up to Scotland... though when we visit it always tends to involve renting the same house for a week and/or staying at the same two spots. I've done most of the NC500 but not too fussed about doing it again, there's better roads to enjoy the scenery/driving imho.
I think the NC500 is probably better suited to camping/touring than most supercars, at least certain bits of it are - i did a chunk in a defender and it was much more fun than the db11 i had at the time.
Sadly it's too far to do in the average-family-holiday-week without rushing it (which is what every UK petrolhead wants to do, or less), and really you kinda just want to hang out on/around the route for a few weeks and take part in some of the outdoor offerings - rather than just racing. I think the fact it's just about dooable means people rush to do it (which probably encourages a bit of a 'race' mentality, and limits the activity outside of merely driving between hotels).
NapierDeltic said:
plenty said:
The NC500 will go down in history as a short-sighted strategy that was poorly thought through. It’s fine to stimulate demand if you have the infrastructure to cope, but Scotland absolutely does not. It’s bad for locals and bad for visitors - a total lose-lose.
Once everybody moves over to electric vehicles you won't be able to do it any more anyway. Highland roads are already sinking back into the ground now - can't imagine what they'll be like by then especially without EU investment.
Riley Blue said:
My camping days are long gone but do you think that wild camping being legalised in Scotland is to blame for the problem? If so, wouldn't it be relatively easy to amend or repeal the Land Reform Act (2003) which, I understand, is the one that resulted in 'access all areas'.
Like many problems, it's probably a combination of factors. Wild camping, proliferation of camper hire operations, plentiful disposable income, increase in tourism facilities in remote locations, increase in use of internet facilities to help discover and book new places, marketing of things like the NC500, modern vehicles that are liveable with for hundreds of miles.I doubt there's an easy fix, though restricting camping rules as well as hired motorhome numbers night alleviate some of it.
This year is obviously an outlier due to the difficulties in going abroad.
I'm camping in the Lakes this weekend (lived nearby for years and visit regularly all year), and part of me is not looking forward to it as I'm expecting carnage.
Riley Blue said:
My camping days are long gone but do you think that wild camping being legalised in Scotland is to blame for the problem? If so, wouldn't it be relatively easy to amend or repeal the Land Reform Act (2003) which, I understand, is the one that resulted in 'access all areas'.
Can we be clear. Wild camping away in the hills and forests causes no issues at all. We've a long history of such access.The issue is dirty campers, next to the roadside.
We've got laws of littering, damage to property (trees, crops, fences, gates etc included), anti social behaviour. Even the land reform act specifies, and has been tested in court, that you cannot 'spoil the owners enjoyment of the land'. We don't have the police to enforce this enough.
In my view there is a couple of cultures at play here. First there's the lack of care and 'stick it to the man' group. They genuinely don't care, if anything to out the way to drink more beer and be provocative.
The lower level but growing group is the entitled campervanner. I've paid £70k for this bad boy and it looks great on Instagram parked in this gateway or passing place. They think they're ok, but still leave 💩 in the woods and fire circles everywhere, block roads and won't pay for a campsite.
Our access laws are great. The idiots who break the "Don't be a d*ckhead" rule, well, they are just d*ckheads.
LochTay said:
Can we be clear. Wild camping away in the hills and forests causes no issues at all. We've a long history of such access.
The issue is dirty campers, next to the roadside.
We've got laws of littering, damage to property (trees, crops, fences, gates etc included), anti social behaviour. Even the land reform act specifies, and has been tested in court, that you cannot 'spoil the owners enjoyment of the land'. We don't have the police to enforce this enough.
In my view there is a couple of cultures at play here. First there's the lack of care and 'stick it to the man' group. They genuinely don't care, if anything to out the way to drink more beer and be provocative.
The lower level but growing group is the entitled campervanner. I've paid £70k for this bad boy and it looks great on Instagram parked in this gateway or passing place. They think they're ok, but still leave ?? in the woods and fire circles everywhere, block roads and won't pay for a campsite.
Our access laws are great. The idiots who break the "Don't be a d*ckhead" rule, well, they are just d*ckheads.
Exactly - no point in having codes and bylelaws if there aren't any police or rangers around to make sure they are being stuck to. It then just winds up being a free for all and leads to bad feeling and confrontation. If the NC500 is here to stay then it needs managed and (sadly) policed.The issue is dirty campers, next to the roadside.
We've got laws of littering, damage to property (trees, crops, fences, gates etc included), anti social behaviour. Even the land reform act specifies, and has been tested in court, that you cannot 'spoil the owners enjoyment of the land'. We don't have the police to enforce this enough.
In my view there is a couple of cultures at play here. First there's the lack of care and 'stick it to the man' group. They genuinely don't care, if anything to out the way to drink more beer and be provocative.
The lower level but growing group is the entitled campervanner. I've paid £70k for this bad boy and it looks great on Instagram parked in this gateway or passing place. They think they're ok, but still leave ?? in the woods and fire circles everywhere, block roads and won't pay for a campsite.
Our access laws are great. The idiots who break the "Don't be a d*ckhead" rule, well, they are just d*ckheads.
Hearing about all this just breaks my heart. I fell in love with the far north west of Scotland in 1983 and have returned many times since, sometimes to holiday (Durness Altnaharra Inchnadamph etc) and sometimes to tour , usually solo . I'd hardly see a car back then , and things actually didn't change much until the last 7 or 8 years, but obviously changed for the worse with the NC 500 bucket list crew..
It's a landscape to appreciate , not violate , and on my last trip I was disgusted at bloody great convoys of idiots whose main view was the rear of an identical car in front , and the front of another one in the rear view mirror .Going up with friends is fine , but stay apart , or travel in pairs, not pathetic 'look at me ' snakes of 10 or 15 cars .We can sneer at campers and motorhomes , but the car community need to look at itself too. . How many who go take any actual interest in the area I wonder - do they even know what the mountains and lochs are called ?
I'd reserve my special bile for the people who think they are doing the grateful peasants and crofters a favour by driving supercars at stupid speeds , and making gratuitous amounts of noise in doing so .Of course there are places where you can press on and enjoy the fabulous roads , but it's not a bloody track day .
I've driven for a full hour in Sutherland without seeing another car and I miss that freedom and emptiness
It's a landscape to appreciate , not violate , and on my last trip I was disgusted at bloody great convoys of idiots whose main view was the rear of an identical car in front , and the front of another one in the rear view mirror .Going up with friends is fine , but stay apart , or travel in pairs, not pathetic 'look at me ' snakes of 10 or 15 cars .We can sneer at campers and motorhomes , but the car community need to look at itself too. . How many who go take any actual interest in the area I wonder - do they even know what the mountains and lochs are called ?
I'd reserve my special bile for the people who think they are doing the grateful peasants and crofters a favour by driving supercars at stupid speeds , and making gratuitous amounts of noise in doing so .Of course there are places where you can press on and enjoy the fabulous roads , but it's not a bloody track day .
I've driven for a full hour in Sutherland without seeing another car and I miss that freedom and emptiness
My 'Drive of my Life' was last year's trip to John O'Groats, just the two of us in our Riley. It's such beautiful countryside I don't understand why anyone would want to leave anything other than a footprint or not see it all by driving through at breakneck speed.
It seems that camper vans are a large part of the problem and perhaps the easiest to monitor and regulate. A ban on them wild camping might be a reasonable first step. Restricting them to recognised sites ought to reduce numbers, put money into the local economy and reduce destruction of open land.
It seems that camper vans are a large part of the problem and perhaps the easiest to monitor and regulate. A ban on them wild camping might be a reasonable first step. Restricting them to recognised sites ought to reduce numbers, put money into the local economy and reduce destruction of open land.
coppice said:
I'd hardly see a car back then , and things actually didn't change much until the last 7 or 8 years, but obviously changed for the worse with the NC 500 bucket list crew..
The NC500 was created and marketed to attract drivers to the Highlands. It was successful. The responsibility doesn't lie with people who are responding to the marketing but with the people who created the marketing.plenty said:
The NC500 was created and marketed to attract drivers to the Highlands.
You'll find that it was created as a cycling route first, and the initial work in 2013-2015 was on this. In 2015 it was marketed as cycling as well as driving, with records set for cycling time etc. It was 2016 when it really became a driving thing.The concept was also about getting tourism attractions and accommodations in different areas to work together, to a common goal on increasing tourism numbers.
It was not just one route to drive end to end in a few days.
LochTay said:
plenty said:
The NC500 was created and marketed to attract drivers to the Highlands.
You'll find that it was created as a cycling route first, and the initial work in 2013-2015 was on this. .A cyclist happened to ride it in under 38 hours in the same year.
I have no skin in the game BTW!... when NC500 became a Ltd company, they paid me a lot of money for the images and are now obviously in it for the money, not anything else.
LochTay said:
plenty said:
The NC500 was created and marketed to attract drivers to the Highlands.
You'll find that it was created as a cycling route first, and the initial work in 2013-2015 was on this.It was not just one route to drive end to end in a few days.
LochTay said:
You're right, the distances do make it a big tour and folk were always going to go for cars.
I think the theory was that folk would also stay a day or so, making the 500miles a 7-day journey. I think there's suggestions most folk are doing it in 3 days.
Indeed. And many from here bragging they did in one day.I think the theory was that folk would also stay a day or so, making the 500miles a 7-day journey. I think there's suggestions most folk are doing it in 3 days.
I used to go up to the roads of the NC500 once a year, from home which was Inverness. I wouldn't now.
Idiots everywhere during this pandemic. I live just south of Fort William and the 'wild camping' is a significant problem. Several forestry carparks that had only recently re-opened are now shut again due to damage from wild camping. Crap, rubbish, burnt ground. Even had a motorhome trying to set up for the night at the turning "T" where my house is, only left when I put the tow rope on to the van.
Idiots everywhere during this pandemic. I live just south of Fort William and the 'wild camping' is a significant problem. Several forestry carparks that had only recently re-opened are now shut again due to damage from wild camping. Crap, rubbish, burnt ground. Even had a motorhome trying to set up for the night at the turning "T" where my house is, only left when I put the tow rope on to the van.
Not surprising really.
All the self entitled moronic brain dead Chavs who normally get their shallow kicks from places like Magaluf are now heading to beautiful parts of the UK and have no respect whatsoever for our fantastic contryside and what it represents.
Unfortunately this is the ugly result.
All the self entitled moronic brain dead Chavs who normally get their shallow kicks from places like Magaluf are now heading to beautiful parts of the UK and have no respect whatsoever for our fantastic contryside and what it represents.
Unfortunately this is the ugly result.
I have been every year (sometimes more than once) starting in 2009. Went with a couple of mates last year.
Never had any major issues. The trick is to go when the majority don't. Timing is key.
The only reason I'm unlikely to be there in 2020 is a lack of cash.
Hopefully things will be back on track next year.
Never had any major issues. The trick is to go when the majority don't. Timing is key.
The only reason I'm unlikely to be there in 2020 is a lack of cash.
Hopefully things will be back on track next year.
Red Devil said:
I have been every year (sometimes more than once) starting in 2009. Went with a couple of mates last year.
Never had any major issues. The trick is to go when the majority don't. Timing is key.
The only reason I'm unlikely to be there in 2020 is a lack of cash.
Hopefully things will be back on track next year.
You wouldn’t believe what is going on up here this year. Calder House on Loch Assynt is now a Latrine for the “wild camping/ dirty brigade” many roads are impassable due car and campervans parking where they like. Durness is community under siege with crofters being ignored about illegal camping. Even if you don’t do Facebook, find somebody who does and take a look at the NC500 The land weeps page. Never had any major issues. The trick is to go when the majority don't. Timing is key.
The only reason I'm unlikely to be there in 2020 is a lack of cash.
Hopefully things will be back on track next year.
leggly said:
Red Devil said:
I have been every year (sometimes more than once) starting in 2009. Went with a couple of mates last year.
Never had any major issues. The trick is to go when the majority don't. Timing is key.
The only reason I'm unlikely to be there in 2020 is a lack of cash.
Hopefully things will be back on track next year.
You wouldn’t believe what is going on up here this year. Calder House on Loch Assynt is now a Latrine for the “wild camping/ dirty brigade” many roads are impassable due car and campervans parking where they like. Durness is community under siege with crofters being ignored about illegal camping. Even if you don’t do Facebook, find somebody who does and take a look at the NC500 The land weeps page. Never had any major issues. The trick is to go when the majority don't. Timing is key.
The only reason I'm unlikely to be there in 2020 is a lack of cash.
Hopefully things will be back on track next year.
Apart from some people just being stupid and inconsiderate, a fair few seem to think that 'right to roam' means that can literally stay anywhere.
As you may have seen on the NC500 thread, I returned home to find these people about to camp in my garden (Dash-cam pic - not my car!)
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