2012 Ford Focus Titanium
Discussion
Had a chat with someone today who had a similar issue, turned out to be his driveshaft that was shot. I seriously hope it's not that.
The problem is that when I find and fix the problem, I won't know until I replace the disk as the wobble is most likely due to the problem warping the rotor. If I replace this front left hub, it may still wobble until I do. If I replace it and it's still wobbling, I'll have to look into the driveshaft and, again, put another disc on after that.
It's getting a bit tiring this.
The problem is that when I find and fix the problem, I won't know until I replace the disk as the wobble is most likely due to the problem warping the rotor. If I replace this front left hub, it may still wobble until I do. If I replace it and it's still wobbling, I'll have to look into the driveshaft and, again, put another disc on after that.
It's getting a bit tiring this.
I've started a thread on the Ford Owners Club, and have had some great information. It looks like it's most likely not the driveshaft or I'd be experiencing wobbles at all times. It also doesn't change the runout/angle of the disc to cause my issues when braking.
However, my car seems to use the following bearing/hub assembly:
The hub and bearing are one single part. Apparently, the hub can become warped if people overtighten or use torque settings that aren't correct for the wheel nuts, that can cause a wobble under braking. More than one person has said this, so it looks like this is the culprit.
I'll call the garage tomorrow to postpone my appointment as I need to find the best place to order the bearing from, and need to return my other one.
However, my car seems to use the following bearing/hub assembly:
The hub and bearing are one single part. Apparently, the hub can become warped if people overtighten or use torque settings that aren't correct for the wheel nuts, that can cause a wobble under braking. More than one person has said this, so it looks like this is the culprit.
I'll call the garage tomorrow to postpone my appointment as I need to find the best place to order the bearing from, and need to return my other one.
BricktopST205 said:
That's not a one piece bearing. That is a "pre-made" with the bearing already attached. I really do not understand how you can warp a hub flange by over tightening it. You would need some industrial strength machine to even attempt that. Likewise people suggesting a bad driveshaft causing the issues with your brakes rubbing. I would stay way clear of any advise from that forum if I was you.
These were the posts:Ford Owners Club member said:
My guess would be bent hub tbh, is the hub integral with the bearing on these? Can't remember (I must be slipping!) but I'd change both if not.
Driveshaft can't change the angle of the wheel/hub so although it can cause a wobble through the car it won't cause your squealy pad issues.
Hubs can get bent by people using different torque settings on the nuts. People sometimes leave lockers a bit loose if they're starting to round but it's not a good idea.
Driveshaft can't change the angle of the wheel/hub so although it can cause a wobble through the car it won't cause your squealy pad issues.
Hubs can get bent by people using different torque settings on the nuts. People sometimes leave lockers a bit loose if they're starting to round but it's not a good idea.
Ford Owners Club member said:
The Focus MK3 uses a GEN2 wheel bearing.
On a GEN2 wheel bearing the wheel hub is an integral part of the bearing assembly. GEN2 wheel hubs need to be removed/installed using special tools. The GEN2 bearings that Ford uses have different dimensions from the GEN2 bearings that are used by most other car manufacturers. Most universal GEN2 removal/installer kits do not contain the correct size tools for the Ford GEN2 bearings.
These wheel hubs can easily become warped. For example by combining different types of wheel nuts (old design wheel nuts with new global wheel nuts) or by failing to apply the correct tightening torque to the wheel nuts. Whether the hubs are warped or not can easily be determined by measuring the runout of the hubs.
My local mechanic also told me that the hub can get warped, and it's been known to happen on these models. That's quite a few people with the same outcome for it to be false? I suppose it wouldn't be the initial tightening, but the rotational force over time that could cause it. Who knows. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but I can't ignore the same outcome given by multiple people from multiple sources.On a GEN2 wheel bearing the wheel hub is an integral part of the bearing assembly. GEN2 wheel hubs need to be removed/installed using special tools. The GEN2 bearings that Ford uses have different dimensions from the GEN2 bearings that are used by most other car manufacturers. Most universal GEN2 removal/installer kits do not contain the correct size tools for the Ford GEN2 bearings.
These wheel hubs can easily become warped. For example by combining different types of wheel nuts (old design wheel nuts with new global wheel nuts) or by failing to apply the correct tightening torque to the wheel nuts. Whether the hubs are warped or not can easily be determined by measuring the runout of the hubs.
Either way, if I buy that part then the hub and bearing would be one piece, so I'm killing 2 birds with one stone. Hub or bearing, the fault will be fixed.
TonyRPH said:
I doubt if the hubs are handed - I would try swapping them from left to right and see if the problem shifts from one side to the other.
You can probably swap the discs over too if you're worried about ruining another disc.
When you look a the thickness of that hub, and the small diameter - it's difficult to see how over tightening would warp that - I suspect the wheel would warp first (if either was possible...)
Then it's most likely the bearing causing play. Either way, replacing both will be sure to solve the issue.You can probably swap the discs over too if you're worried about ruining another disc.
When you look a the thickness of that hub, and the small diameter - it's difficult to see how over tightening would warp that - I suspect the wheel would warp first (if either was possible...)
I say that...
AJ5641 said:
Lights look nice, have you got links or product codes for the dipped, full beam and side lights in those nice white colours. I don't want to install HIDS in my Mk3 focus either.
I've not got any different full beams as they don't really need to be white - no one's going to see them so I'm never bothered.Side lights:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07D8RCW2H/ref...
Dipped beam:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XXGGQ8J/ref...
DickP said:
Hi geraintthomas,
I recommend considering a hub from a low mileage breaker if you can. May work out cheaper than the bearing plus garage time changing the bearing vs changing the hub.
Thanks,
Normally I would, but this issue has been going on long enough, and with word of hubs/bearings being easily damaged on these, there's no guarantee that a used one will be fine. If the issue had just started I'd buy used, but as it's been happening for months I just want it done with, so I'm buying new.I recommend considering a hub from a low mileage breaker if you can. May work out cheaper than the bearing plus garage time changing the bearing vs changing the hub.
Thanks,
Managed to get it from EuroCarParts for £70 from £120 due to trade discount as it wasn't on their website and was only on their Ebay store, so I couldn't honour the eternal sale that they have going. Nice of them to do that.
Not sure if the boot is big enough.
This should do the trick. Whether the hub is at fault, or the bearing is failed, this will make an easier job for the garage to fit and will kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The car is booked in tomorrow.
In the meantime, I can't give it to the garage looking like this...
Time to get cleaning!
The garage has the car, and has given me a call to tell me that there's no play in the bearing. They couldn't heard the noise (it's hammering down with rain here) but the noise wouldn't happen until half hour or so of driving. They don't think it's the bearing and are skeptical about the hub, so they're going to look for whatever they can. I've discussed that if they can't find much to just fit the hub and bearing anyway as it rules that out at least.
Car should be back with me tomorrow morning.
Car should be back with me tomorrow morning.
Update:
The garage has told me that the flange/bearing kit I've given them is the wrong one, and it's the separate ones that's used on my car, rather than the all-in-one part. No bother, I can get a refund on that part and the garage is ordering in the correct flange and bearing for tomorrow.
They're a bit puzzled by the issue too. They've checked the brakes and all is well, and the bearing has no play. We're in agreement that it must be the flange that's bad, causing the disc and wheel to sit on a slight angle.
Bearing is £29, flange is around £120 (Ford wanted £250+ apparently), and then labour on top of that. Not cheap, but at this stage I'd rather pay more knowing it's fixed than keep throwing money at it.
I'll let you know what happens tomorrow when I get the car back.
The garage has told me that the flange/bearing kit I've given them is the wrong one, and it's the separate ones that's used on my car, rather than the all-in-one part. No bother, I can get a refund on that part and the garage is ordering in the correct flange and bearing for tomorrow.
They're a bit puzzled by the issue too. They've checked the brakes and all is well, and the bearing has no play. We're in agreement that it must be the flange that's bad, causing the disc and wheel to sit on a slight angle.
Bearing is £29, flange is around £120 (Ford wanted £250+ apparently), and then labour on top of that. Not cheap, but at this stage I'd rather pay more knowing it's fixed than keep throwing money at it.
I'll let you know what happens tomorrow when I get the car back.
Car has been returned, problem fixed.
Until half an hour later.
The wobble and squeak have gone, replaced with a groaning noise on certain angles of the wheel when driving, and when pulling away. It sounds like you're blowing the top of a beer bottle, kind of a harmonic resonance. It goes as soon as you touch the brake.
I have Eicher pads and I've read online these are shocking quality and can cause noises and vibrations due to a poor fit. The garage also told me the pads moved a lot more than they should. At this point I'm tempted to put brembo's in to see if that fixes it.
I'm completely disheartened by the car at the moment.
Until half an hour later.
The wobble and squeak have gone, replaced with a groaning noise on certain angles of the wheel when driving, and when pulling away. It sounds like you're blowing the top of a beer bottle, kind of a harmonic resonance. It goes as soon as you touch the brake.
I have Eicher pads and I've read online these are shocking quality and can cause noises and vibrations due to a poor fit. The garage also told me the pads moved a lot more than they should. At this point I'm tempted to put brembo's in to see if that fixes it.
I'm completely disheartened by the car at the moment.
Interesting... I'll see what they say tomorrow.
This is the sound:
https://youtu.be/FM-qAtaKAps
Happens sometimes when pulling away, and sometimes when simply driving. Disappears when braking.
This used to happen a while back, but only when reversing.
This is the sound:
https://youtu.be/FM-qAtaKAps
Happens sometimes when pulling away, and sometimes when simply driving. Disappears when braking.
This used to happen a while back, but only when reversing.
Interesting... I'll see what they say tomorrow.
This is the sound:
https://youtu.be/FM-qAtaKAps
Happens sometimes when pulling away, and sometimes when simply driving. Disappears when braking.
This used to happen a while back, but only when reversing.
This is the sound:
https://youtu.be/FM-qAtaKAps
Happens sometimes when pulling away, and sometimes when simply driving. Disappears when braking.
This used to happen a while back, but only when reversing.
Another video of the sound:
https://youtu.be/zRh0EskdasM
Update: IT'S FINALLY FIXED.
As you can tell from the video above, it was happening when driving without touching the brakes. After some research, here's what I think was happening...
Now that there is a new flange/bearing on the car, the disc no longer wobbles and is perfectly true. Because of this, the pads are able to sit closer to the disc (the wobble would have pushed them out slightly). The Eicher pads that I have in there are known to be horrendous quality, and they even look slightly different (as pointed out by someone a while back), which could cause them to rattle and vibrate if not seated properly. The garage even told me there was a lot of movement of the pad the carrier. Because they're now sitting closer/touching the disc as they should, they're vibrating more and causing that sort of harmonic resonance sound you can hear in the video. I realised that I still had the Brembo pads that I took off the car when I first changed it's brakes; they still had a lot of meat left on them and looked relatively new. I cleaned them up, swapped the Eicher's to the Brembo's and the sound is gone. I drove it for a good 40 minutes around town and there's no noise of vibration at all.
So there we go; a warped flange caused the brakes to wobble and squeak, and poor quality pads caused a groan/vibration when they were functioning as they should. I'm really hopeful that it's all done and I can forget about it. It's been 5 months of issues with this one brake since the day I've bought it, so now I can concentrate on other areas of it.
Thanks for the help everyone!
https://youtu.be/zRh0EskdasM
Update: IT'S FINALLY FIXED.
As you can tell from the video above, it was happening when driving without touching the brakes. After some research, here's what I think was happening...
Now that there is a new flange/bearing on the car, the disc no longer wobbles and is perfectly true. Because of this, the pads are able to sit closer to the disc (the wobble would have pushed them out slightly). The Eicher pads that I have in there are known to be horrendous quality, and they even look slightly different (as pointed out by someone a while back), which could cause them to rattle and vibrate if not seated properly. The garage even told me there was a lot of movement of the pad the carrier. Because they're now sitting closer/touching the disc as they should, they're vibrating more and causing that sort of harmonic resonance sound you can hear in the video. I realised that I still had the Brembo pads that I took off the car when I first changed it's brakes; they still had a lot of meat left on them and looked relatively new. I cleaned them up, swapped the Eicher's to the Brembo's and the sound is gone. I drove it for a good 40 minutes around town and there's no noise of vibration at all.
So there we go; a warped flange caused the brakes to wobble and squeak, and poor quality pads caused a groan/vibration when they were functioning as they should. I'm really hopeful that it's all done and I can forget about it. It's been 5 months of issues with this one brake since the day I've bought it, so now I can concentrate on other areas of it.
Thanks for the help everyone!
BricktopST205 said:
I would say the sticking caliper at some point caused a lot of heat to warp the flange.
You're probably right there, good shout. Had not thought of that...Considering it was for sale with new discs and pads and a wobble when I drove it, I'd imagine they gave up and sold the car.
Just to say that I've been driving it quite a lot recently, it looks like brake-gate is finally over. Horray! Now that it's over, I need to re-paint the calipers back to silver as the amount of times I've taken them on and off has spoiled the finish. I'll only be painting the most obvious faces though, and won't be going anywhere near the pads, just in case.
Moving on (finally). I've fitted some Osram Cool Blue Boost headlight bulbs to suit the LED's I have. I'll have to get a better photo tonight, but they're very white and very bright compared to standard halogen's.
Before (you can see the difference in the sidelight and headlight in this photo):
After:
They're on Amazon for £14.
The sidelights and puddle lights are LED as you know, and the headlights now suit them. I didn't think I'd be able to get as close of a match as I have without going Xenon. For the price, they're a no brainer. You can't see a horrible blue reflection in the housing either, which I thought would be the case.
Very impressed, thoroughly recommend to anyone with halogens.
Moving on (finally). I've fitted some Osram Cool Blue Boost headlight bulbs to suit the LED's I have. I'll have to get a better photo tonight, but they're very white and very bright compared to standard halogen's.
Before (you can see the difference in the sidelight and headlight in this photo):
After:
They're on Amazon for £14.
The sidelights and puddle lights are LED as you know, and the headlights now suit them. I didn't think I'd be able to get as close of a match as I have without going Xenon. For the price, they're a no brainer. You can't see a horrible blue reflection in the housing either, which I thought would be the case.
Very impressed, thoroughly recommend to anyone with halogens.
Edited by geraintthomas on Tuesday 22 December 10:24
Edited by geraintthomas on Tuesday 22 December 10:24
Mr Pointy said:
Good to hear. Can I buy it now it's sorted?
For one million dollars! (cue Austin powers music)In all seriousness, I wanted a car that looks modern, comfortable, quiet, safe, kitted out with options, economical and cheap to run. It ticks every box so realistically there's no reason to buy any other car or to ever sell it.
The newer ones look gorgeous, and would be a welcome replacement. But considering this costs nothing to run or tax and that it only cost me £3,500, it's a bargain too good too sell.
Had quite a close call a few days ago. Driving on a 30mph road, with a car in front and on-coming traffic. A car behind me decides to overtake me and almost hits a van that's coming the other way, squeezing in front of me, missing me by inches. He continues to do this going forward with other cars, and it was one of those moments where I wish I had a camera.
So off I went to buy a camera.
Me being me, I don't like anything sticking down from the windscreen or having wires on show, so I went about to find the best camera that would fit the awkward positioning of the windscreen. As it's a titanium, there's about a million camera's by the windscreen so there's an enormous plastic scuttle that's blocking any sort of ordinary camera positioning.
(image taken from google)
As you can see, you can't place it by the mirror, and there's a sun shade either side that blocks the view. This makes things kind of awkward! I opted for a camera that sits flat on the windscreen, just to try and match the aesthetics.
I've bought a hardwire kit too. It gives you the USB input on one end, and a positive/negative output on the other. The negative is placed on a ground point, and the positive is plugged into this:
Which then plugs into a fuse that's on with ignition but off when the ignition is off. Fuse 85 was just the one, so I pulled this out, plugged this in, and placed the fuse back on top of it. A simple piggyback solution. Most of the kits come with normal microUSB plugs and not a 90 degree, so I cut up the one supplied that was attached to the cigarette power source and placed that onto the wire instead.
The wires were then run behind the dashboard, behind the a-pillar, into the roof lining and into the camera so that it's permanently hardwired with no wires in view.
It's quite annoying that there's a small wire on show, but there's not much I can do about that.
You can just about see it on the right. So many cameras, I may just call the car Paparazzi...
The camera is brilliant. It's on sale on Amazon for around £25 ( link here). It has a horrible start up sound and beep, but can both be turned off. The camera quality is fantastic, clear with no motion blur, and great night quality. It has impact detection, loop recording, 1080p quality with a very wide lens, audio, etc. It doesn't come with an SD card so I'd pick one up separate. I'll be picking up a second for the MX-5.
I wanted to hide this camera as much as I could, wires and all, as I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to keeping anything negative out of my life (I've had my fair share of it years back). I'm a very optimistic person (overly sometimes) and have no time for any negativity that doesn't need to happen. I don't go looking for conflict, I don't start arguments, and am generally quite forgiving. If someone cuts me up on the road I'll tend to think that they may be in a hurry, perhaps their loved one is in hospital. I don't have any news apps on my phone as I don't like waking up to someone telling me "Good morning", then telling me why it's not, and generally keep any negativity out of every day living. The reason why I've explained all of that is that a dash camera is only there in case of a bad situation, something which I'd rather not get constantly reminded of whenever I sit in the car, hence the effort to hide this. If I need it, it's great that it's there. Sounds petty, but there we go.
So off I went to buy a camera.
Me being me, I don't like anything sticking down from the windscreen or having wires on show, so I went about to find the best camera that would fit the awkward positioning of the windscreen. As it's a titanium, there's about a million camera's by the windscreen so there's an enormous plastic scuttle that's blocking any sort of ordinary camera positioning.
(image taken from google)
As you can see, you can't place it by the mirror, and there's a sun shade either side that blocks the view. This makes things kind of awkward! I opted for a camera that sits flat on the windscreen, just to try and match the aesthetics.
I've bought a hardwire kit too. It gives you the USB input on one end, and a positive/negative output on the other. The negative is placed on a ground point, and the positive is plugged into this:
Which then plugs into a fuse that's on with ignition but off when the ignition is off. Fuse 85 was just the one, so I pulled this out, plugged this in, and placed the fuse back on top of it. A simple piggyback solution. Most of the kits come with normal microUSB plugs and not a 90 degree, so I cut up the one supplied that was attached to the cigarette power source and placed that onto the wire instead.
The wires were then run behind the dashboard, behind the a-pillar, into the roof lining and into the camera so that it's permanently hardwired with no wires in view.
It's quite annoying that there's a small wire on show, but there's not much I can do about that.
You can just about see it on the right. So many cameras, I may just call the car Paparazzi...
The camera is brilliant. It's on sale on Amazon for around £25 ( link here). It has a horrible start up sound and beep, but can both be turned off. The camera quality is fantastic, clear with no motion blur, and great night quality. It has impact detection, loop recording, 1080p quality with a very wide lens, audio, etc. It doesn't come with an SD card so I'd pick one up separate. I'll be picking up a second for the MX-5.
I wanted to hide this camera as much as I could, wires and all, as I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to keeping anything negative out of my life (I've had my fair share of it years back). I'm a very optimistic person (overly sometimes) and have no time for any negativity that doesn't need to happen. I don't go looking for conflict, I don't start arguments, and am generally quite forgiving. If someone cuts me up on the road I'll tend to think that they may be in a hurry, perhaps their loved one is in hospital. I don't have any news apps on my phone as I don't like waking up to someone telling me "Good morning", then telling me why it's not, and generally keep any negativity out of every day living. The reason why I've explained all of that is that a dash camera is only there in case of a bad situation, something which I'd rather not get constantly reminded of whenever I sit in the car, hence the effort to hide this. If I need it, it's great that it's there. Sounds petty, but there we go.
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