Facel Vega HK500. A childhood dream or a nightmare?
Discussion
I was trying to find a way of substantiating (proving is too strong a word) the mileage.
The car was on its original wire wheels when I picked it up. The tyres were hardly worn 6.70x15 Michelin X. As a result of that question and the answers I received it seems that that size of tyre was last made by Michelin in 1966. It is therefore a pretty safe assumption that the car hasn't covered too many thousands of miles since then, unless one of the owners was stockpiling tyres!
From the used car test in Autocar I know the mileage was just under 49000 in March 1961. When I picked the car up in 1999 the mileage was just under 60000. I believe the tyres show that the car can't have covered too many miles since 1966 at the latest, so there is a five year window at most when it could have been heavily used.
It's a stretch to assume it covered 100k miles in that time and the clock rolled over, so there are three possibilities. Either the clock was disconnected at some stage during that period, a dealer 'clocked' it on a change of ownership or that the mileage is correct. I'm leaning towards the latter, given the relatively low ownership and sheltered life the car has enjoyed.
Sorry for the long answer!
The car was on its original wire wheels when I picked it up. The tyres were hardly worn 6.70x15 Michelin X. As a result of that question and the answers I received it seems that that size of tyre was last made by Michelin in 1966. It is therefore a pretty safe assumption that the car hasn't covered too many thousands of miles since then, unless one of the owners was stockpiling tyres!
From the used car test in Autocar I know the mileage was just under 49000 in March 1961. When I picked the car up in 1999 the mileage was just under 60000. I believe the tyres show that the car can't have covered too many miles since 1966 at the latest, so there is a five year window at most when it could have been heavily used.
It's a stretch to assume it covered 100k miles in that time and the clock rolled over, so there are three possibilities. Either the clock was disconnected at some stage during that period, a dealer 'clocked' it on a change of ownership or that the mileage is correct. I'm leaning towards the latter, given the relatively low ownership and sheltered life the car has enjoyed.
Sorry for the long answer!
A fascinating thread, I admire your dedication. They are certainly striking cars - when I’m in the office I park in a multi level subterranean car park in Birmingham, normally heading for the deeper, less busy, levels. This was parked at a low level in August 2019; right hand drive but I’m not sure where it is registered:
Stegel said:
A fascinating thread, I admire your dedication. They are certainly striking cars - when I’m in the office I park in a multi level subterranean car park in Birmingham, normally heading for the deeper, less busy, levels. This was parked at a low level in August 2019; right hand drive but I’m not sure where it is registered:
Thank you Stegel.I think cream really suits the HK shape. Could that be a Northern Ireland registration with the numbers spaced to ape French plates? Nice touch if so as 75 is the mark for Paris, home of Facel.
theadman said:
Thank you Stegel.
I think cream really suits the HK shape. Could that be a Northern Ireland registration with the numbers spaced to ape French plates? Nice touch if so as 75 is the mark for Paris, home of Facel.
It’s the first car I’ve seen there that has got me sufficiently interested to walk over and photograph it, and agreed the cream suits it. I too thought Paris when I saw the 75 but I think the 75 belongs in the centre of the plate for that to be the case. Could well be early NI - I’m not really au fait with the system, they all seem to incorporate a Z somewhere, at least more recently. I think cream really suits the HK shape. Could that be a Northern Ireland registration with the numbers spaced to ape French plates? Nice touch if so as 75 is the mark for Paris, home of Facel.
The only other photo I took, a side view:
Edited by Stegel on Thursday 10th November 16:16
It is a UK registration, although the typeface doesn't look very usual.
It's taxed and has a valid MoT.
It was put up for auction in 2018 but it seems it did not sell.
https://www.proxibid.com/Collector-Cars/Classic-Vi...
It's taxed and has a valid MoT.
It was put up for auction in 2018 but it seems it did not sell.
https://www.proxibid.com/Collector-Cars/Classic-Vi...
Stegel said:
It’s the first car I’ve seen there that has got me sufficiently interested to walk over and photograph it, and agreed the cream suits it. I too thought Paris when I saw the 75 but I think the 75 belongs in the centre of the plate for that to be the case. Could well be early NI - I’m not really au fait with the system, they all seem to incorporate a Z somewhere, at least more recently.
The only other photo I took, a side view:
They're just so... elegant arent they! I must did out my photis ive taken over the years. I saw a hk500 conervtible years ago at silverstone..The only other photo I took, a side view:
Edited by Stegel on Thursday 10th November 16:16
This is state of the art wheel and tyre technology 1950s style...
These are the Aston DBMkIII wheels that HWM adopted for the Facel. As mentioned previously, the tyres are 6.70x15 Michelin X, last manufactured around 1966. You can see there is plenty of tread left; the tyres are hardly worn.
The car was on these wheels when I picked it up in 1999. I still have them, as somehow it seems wrong to throw them away. All they do is sit in the garage and provide a home for some pretty big spiders!
The spinners are quite interesting as they were probably originally Aston ones. As a result, the centres had been cut out and a new circle of steel was let in with crudely stamped Facel Vega lettering. Unfortunately these are with the car down in Cornwall so I can't share a picture.
Around 2006 I managed to find a very affable Belgian man selling a set of four spinners from a Facel II at the Beaulieu Autojumble. I showed some interest and asked to have a look, as non-commitally as possible! There was no price ticket so I broached the question, having had a brief discussion about Facel Vegas. His response was £50. As I had already spoken to an English supplier of spinners earlier in the day, I knew the going rate was £85, so fifty quid seemed pretty reasonable as the spinners were perfect (but not stamped 'Facel Vega').
My quandary was did he mean £50 each, or £50 for the four! I hesitantly proffered £50 and waited to see what happened...the lovely man gave me all four spinners, thanked me for the purchase and wished me well with the car!
What a result...you can still find bargains at Beaulieu!
These are the Aston DBMkIII wheels that HWM adopted for the Facel. As mentioned previously, the tyres are 6.70x15 Michelin X, last manufactured around 1966. You can see there is plenty of tread left; the tyres are hardly worn.
The car was on these wheels when I picked it up in 1999. I still have them, as somehow it seems wrong to throw them away. All they do is sit in the garage and provide a home for some pretty big spiders!
The spinners are quite interesting as they were probably originally Aston ones. As a result, the centres had been cut out and a new circle of steel was let in with crudely stamped Facel Vega lettering. Unfortunately these are with the car down in Cornwall so I can't share a picture.
Around 2006 I managed to find a very affable Belgian man selling a set of four spinners from a Facel II at the Beaulieu Autojumble. I showed some interest and asked to have a look, as non-commitally as possible! There was no price ticket so I broached the question, having had a brief discussion about Facel Vegas. His response was £50. As I had already spoken to an English supplier of spinners earlier in the day, I knew the going rate was £85, so fifty quid seemed pretty reasonable as the spinners were perfect (but not stamped 'Facel Vega').
My quandary was did he mean £50 each, or £50 for the four! I hesitantly proffered £50 and waited to see what happened...the lovely man gave me all four spinners, thanked me for the purchase and wished me well with the car!
What a result...you can still find bargains at Beaulieu!
CAPP0 said:
Great thread OP, and I'm enjoying reading the history that comes with it and which you've unearthed.
Let's hope HWM were rather better at their chosen profession back when they had your car than they are these days - speaking from personal experience!
HWM, or rather the wholely owned offshoot called Intercontinental Cars that was the Facel Importer, often worked towards the edge of the envelope of what was legal. For instance, there was only one set of trade plates. This was a bit of an issue when they went down to Lydd in Kent to pick up cars off the 'Silver City' air ferry. The plane could carry four cars and so for the journey back to the workshop the cars had to be driven in convoy with a trade plate on the front car and the other one on the last car!Let's hope HWM were rather better at their chosen profession back when they had your car than they are these days - speaking from personal experience!
The way they managed their stock was quite inventive and often involved the help of one Bernie Ecclestone, then a thriving London second hand car dealer. But, HWM were only conducting business the way most other franchises were in the early 1960s.
I had professional experience of them in the early 2000s as they held a Volkswagen franchise. Mike Harting, who joined HWM as a salesman (and shareholder) in 1959 was at the helm. I have to say he was a real gentleman.
As an aside, when Mike heard I was restoring a Facel he gave me photograph of Stirling Moss taking delivery of his HK500 that had hung in the showroom. He also promised me a white silk scarf if I finished the car. These scarves were given to each HK500 purchaser and Mike had a couple left in a cupboard somewhere. Given the length of time it has taken, I suspect that deal is off!
Here's the showroom picture in its current home...
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