Knackered old Porsche with loads of miles - 996 content

[Doofus]

poppopbangbang said:

.... you get used to how far away the indicator stalk is eventually

I'm surprised you've not made a new one out of carbon.

[poppopbangbang]

Heaveho said:

The fit and finish of the panels and paint look superb in the pics, I'd be delighted with that. Just a great car, with great additions.

Thank you, I really am chuffed with how none rough it looks now

Heaveho said:

Liking the Sony head unit, it's the one I settled on for my old Mk1 MR2 after a false start with a Pioneer. Discovered the hard way that it was too far from the drivers eyeline without a rotary control for volume. The Pioneer ended up in the Boxster, as it's got steering wheel controls. An expensive lesson!

I'm a big believer in physical primary controls for stuff, for what they cost these Sony units are mega and the Android Auto integration is seamless and very responsive. I'm considering fitting one of the old rotary controllers to the column for shades of late 90's Toyota and easier track skipping

[Heaveho]

poppopbangbang said:

Heaveho said:

The fit and finish of the panels and paint look superb in the pics, I'd be delighted with that. Just a great car, with great additions.

Thank you, I really am chuffed with how none rough it looks now

Heaveho said:

Liking the Sony head unit, it's the one I settled on for my old Mk1 MR2 after a false start with a Pioneer. Discovered the hard way that it was too far from the drivers eyeline without a rotary control for volume. The Pioneer ended up in the Boxster, as it's got steering wheel controls. An expensive lesson!

I'm a big believer in physical primary controls for stuff, for what they cost these Sony units are mega and the Android Auto integration is seamless and very responsive. I'm considering fitting one of the old rotary controllers to the column for shades of late 90's Toyota and easier track skipping

We must have more in common than I thought, I'm from a 90s Toyota dealership background! I remember those rotary controllers from my Corolla GTI days back then, I suppose it isn't beyond the wit of man to make one work with that unit. It's on a jack plug fitting from memory?

[snotrag]

Heaveho said:

I suppose it isn't beyond the wit of man to make one work with that unit. It's on a jack plug fitting from memory?

Not at all - think about the standard headphones you get with a 3.5mm plug in the box with your cheap android phone - they have just 4 terminals, Ground/L out/R out /Mic in.

Using just these - you can Pause/Play, Next/Previous Track, and Volume Up/Down on the little remote control that hangs under your chin.

I'm sure they just use a variety of resistance values to identify each function...

Its the same standard, I believe, that was also used in those stick on 'stalks' you could get with your high end allpine or pioneer deck in the 90s giving you the equivalent of modern steerring wheel controls.


Modern stuff is obviously all digital signals, but this old fashioned tech is quite simple electronic circuity.

[poppopbangbang]

It's actually even easier than that chaps..... I'm not sure about the latest ones but my head unit (that is around three years old) has the 3.5MM "Remote" jack on the back and Sony haven't changed the multiplexing on the stalk since 1999 so it's plug and play

I quite like the idea of having a period correct stalk so this seems a good option.

Now I just have to decide what I'm doing for a dash display as I don't want to do AIM again (absolutely nothing wrong with it, it's blindingly good kit just way OTT for what the car is now), could do a Racetech Dash 4 mounted on the wheel, or make a little CAN display with a 1" OLED and a Teensy board or just ignore that requirement and do some shift lights..... it's only really the shift lights that I miss but oil temp, accurate coolant temp etc. are all really useful things to have....

[Heaveho]

I used to use those stalks back in the day, but typically tended to forget they were there and still poke about at the buttons on the head unit!: laugh: Dunno where you would find one of those now?

Edit....turns out ebay's your friend here.

Edited by Heaveho on Wednesday 7th June 22:59

[Slippydiff]

poppopbangbang said:

From this:



To this:



One more to do and they can go back on the car which means it can go back on the deck for the first time in nearly three months! Only a month over time but I suppose that's not bad with supply chain how it is at the moment... Some good revisions on the later spec rear Ohlins too, I provided some feedback back in the day that the lower mounting cups could do with being a bit deeper to provide a greater range of ride height adjustment and these have been revised to provide another 30mm or so of heigh adjustment in the rear vs the original parts so always good to see customer feedback actioned

Hi Pop, I hope you're well ? The car is looking superb !

A change of plan (ExeTC have proven small doesn't always mean beautiful) means I've ordered a set of Ohlins R & T's for the car ...

As we discussed previously, I like to run with softer spring rates than most, and both the off the shelf Ohlins options are waaaaay too stiff from my perspective (ie solely for road use)

Could you let me have the specs/part numbers of the Eibach ERS springs you used front and rear please ?
I'm not too fussed about the rates, it's more the OD and ID of the springs and their free lengths I'm after. TIA.

[poppopbangbang]

I can indeed! Apologies for the delay in replying.

My "Prime" fronts are: 0800.250.0250 = 8" Free Length, 2.5" Diameter, 250lbs/in

Rears are: 0800.250.0525 = 8" Free Length, 2.5" Diameter, 525 lbs/in.

In metric that's 44N/mm front and 92N/mm front.

The caveat to this is that my R&Ts aren't standard. I believe these will go on the standard setup with the weird top mount puck thing that retains the OE bearing assembly but I'm not 100% sure as mine have always run with a conventional/proper front spring perch. I'd measure the Ohlins supplied top mount bits for you to check but they went in the recycling several years ago I'll try and find some stock Ohlins springs to confirm.

[poppopbangbang]

For reference this is my top mount setup on the front:





I run an axial thrust bearing under the spring platform which avoids the springs binding at extremes of motion and makes adjustment far easier. Eibach call this a Torsion Release Bearing (https://eibach.com/us/c-119-motorsport-springs-accessories-race-spring-accessories-torsion-release-bearings.html).

Edited by poppopbangbang on Friday 16th June 23:57

[Mikeeb]

poppopbangbang said:

For reference this is my top mount setup on the front:





I run an axial thrust bearing under the spring platform which avoids the springs binding at extremes of motion and makes adjustment far easier. Eibach call this a Torsion Release Bearing (https://eibach.com/us/c-119-motorsport-springs-accessories-race-spring-accessories-torsion-release-bearings.html).

Edited by poppopbangbang on Friday 16th June 23:57

I assume there’s a steel or steel/ptfe type spherical bearing in those mounts? Where did you get the mounts or are they something you had made?

Ta

[poppopbangbang]

Mikeeb said:

I assume there’s a steel or steel/ptfe type spherical bearing in those mounts? Where did you get the mounts or are they something you had made?

Ta

Yep there's a spherical in there. They're Elephant Racings standard C4/Turbo camber adjustable top mounts. They're very nicely done including some custom seals on the spherical which is a really nice (and expensive to have made!) touch.

[Border89]

Never seen those thrust bearings before but they make loads of sense - do you run one set per shock or do you have one at each end of the spring? I get that one is probably enough, but given your belt and braces approach to maintenance I can see value in there being redundancy in case one end seizes up...

[Slippydiff]

poppopbangbang said:

I can indeed! Apologies for the delay in replying.

My "Prime" fronts are: 0800.250.0250 = 8" Free Length, 2.5" Diameter, 250lbs/in

Rears are: 0800.250.0525 = 8" Free Length, 2.5" Diameter, 525 lbs/in.

In metric that's 44N/mm front and 92N/mm front.

The caveat to this is that my R&Ts aren't standard. I believe these will go on the standard setup with the weird top mount puck thing that retains the OE bearing assembly but I'm not 100% sure as mine have always run with a conventional/proper front spring perch. I'd measure the Ohlins supplied top mount bits for you to check but they went in the recycling several years ago I'll try and find some stock Ohlins springs to confirm.

No worries on the delay, I'm sure you're plenty busy enough without having to check up on your various PH threads everyday !!

That's great information thankyou
Some nice mods you've carried out to the Ohlins to make them to your spec.

I'm trying to keep my car as compliant as possible, so whilst I really like the idea of the Elephant top mounts, I don't want to run spherical bearings (been there, done that, they're a step too far on our hopeless road surfaces these days) so I'll be using the stock top mounts, but possibly going to have to adapt the Ohlins top spring perch to suit 65mm ID springs or find some 70mm ID springs to the specs I need.

In their infinite wisdom Ohlins use 70mm ID front springs and 65mm ID items for the rear



Any reason you went from 70mm ID front springs to the 65mm ID items ? Better availability/more options ?

Were those top spring platforms custom made items you produced specifically for the 65mm ID springs ?

[poppopbangbang]

Slippydiff said:

No worries on the delay, I'm sure you're plenty busy enough without having to check up on your various PH threads everyday !!

That's great information thankyou
Some nice mods you've carried out to the Ohlins to make them to your spec.

I'm trying to keep my car as compliant as possible, so whilst I really like the idea of the Elephant top mounts, I don't want to run spherical bearings (been there, done that, they're a step too far on our hopeless road surfaces these days) so I'll be using the stock top mounts, but possibly going to have to adapt the Ohlins top spring perch to suit 65mm ID springs or find some 70mm ID springs to the specs I need.

In their infinite wisdom Ohlins use 70mm ID front springs and 65mm ID items for the rear



Any reason you went from 70mm ID front springs to the 65mm ID items ? Better availability/more options ?

Were those top spring platforms custom made items you produced specifically for the 65mm ID springs ?

My Ohlins started out as one of the first few sets made which were on 65mm front and rear hence the 65mm upper spring perch etc. as I already had 65mm springs. I think these upper platforms were some I had kicking around from something else and I just machined the bore out to suit the Ohlins damper rod..... they're a common thing though and readily available from plenty of places. I think it would be pretty hard to use these with a standard top mount though as the large Ohlins top mount forms the interface with the standard top mount bearing.

I might have some 70mm front springs in the garage that will work for you and will be cheap, let me have a look this evening.

[poppopbangbang]

Border89 said:

Never seen those thrust bearings before but they make loads of sense - do you run one set per shock or do you have one at each end of the spring? I get that one is probably enough, but given your belt and braces approach to maintenance I can see value in there being redundancy in case one end seizes up...

Only one per spring, two is just doubling the failure mode. The nice thing is they fail by binding/locking up at which point you are no worse off than when the spring was just sat against the upper spring perch as standard. I bin them every year in road use, although if you didn't run through winter they'd likely last far longer.

They are very cheap and very available from the vast majority of bearing suppliers so as a yearly consumable they add little to the cost of running the car.

To make adjustment far easier and avoid the springs binding at large steering deflections, especially on cars with sub optimal pickup points (like the C4) they are highly recommended.

[poppopbangbang]

It had a visit to Centre Gravity yesterday and spent some time with the resident suspension wizard





I am over the moon with their work and how it now drives, there is a lot of compliance and damper travel which it didn't have before and the balance of the car is far more ideal for its new role as a GT car.

Weights are also pretty impressive:



That's with full fuel, which on this car is 97L so minus fuel but with all other fluids (and a jack/spare oil etc.) it's circa 1375KG. I added 16KG of aircon system etc. since the last time it was weighed so the carbon wings etc. are definitely keeping the overall mass down.

I really can't rate CG highly enough, their level of experience and understanding of how the elements within a suspension system interact and operate is unmatched in my experience and I would encourage anyone who is adding some new bits or wanting to refresh their current setup to speak to them about setup!

There's only a few bits left to do on it now, and it's officially back on the road having clocked up 75 miles or so yesterday. Nothing fell off so I'm considering first shakedown a huge success

[nebpor]

I'd love to take my car there .... someday!

That you are happy is the best bit of all, that's all that counts. Their rep is amazing

[Slippydiff]

poppopbangbang said:

My Ohlins started out as one of the first few sets made which were on 65mm front and rear hence the 65mm upper spring perch etc. as I already had 65mm springs. I think these upper platforms were some I had kicking around from something else and I just machined the bore out to suit the Ohlins damper rod..... they're a common thing though and readily available from plenty of places. I think it would be pretty hard to use these with a standard top mount though as the large Ohlins top mount forms the interface with the standard top mount bearing.

I might have some 70mm front springs in the garage that will work for you and will be cheap, let me have a look this evening.

That would be great if you could, as I'm fast running out of options for the rates I want in 70mm ID springs ...

Has the added compliance come as a result of the overhaul of the suspension components and/or the damper refresh and a spring rate change ? or the tweaks Chris/Pete at CG did to the car ?
In my experience running large cambers seems to reduce the tyre's ability to cushion the ride and provide a decent primary ride, add in low ride heights that are too low and things can get pretty crashy.

[poppopbangbang]

Slippydiff said:

That would be great if you could, as I'm fast running out of options for the rates I want in 70mm ID springs ...

This is what I have in stock:



2 Off - ERS-D-200-70-040 - Metric Spring, 200MM free length, 70MM Diameter, 40N/MM Rate.

2 Off - 0800.250.0525 - Imperial Spring, 8"/200MM free length, 2.5" Diameter, 92N/MM Rate.

I'll drop you a message through your profile in case they're of interest.

Slippydiff said:

Has the added compliance come as a result of the overhaul of the suspension components and/or the damper refresh and a spring rate change ? or the tweaks Chris/Pete at CG did to the car ?
In my experience running large cambers seems to reduce the tyre's ability to cushion the ride and provide a decent primary ride, add in low ride heights that are too low and things can get pretty crashy.

All of the above really, there was plenty of 100,000 mile old stuff in there which had some play/noise, fresh dampers always help, the drop in spring rate has calmed everything down and the work Chris/Pete have done has tied it all together and made it work well. It's certainly not some over soft, roly poly thing as it has the odd polybush in the arms, spherical bearing front top mounts etc. etc. but it has absolutely no fizziness to it and very little NVH beyond tyre noise, which on a wide rear on a 911 is standard operating procedure It has proper poise to and the stability and lack of GT3 style nervousness is just superb on UK roads, very settled across mid corner bumps and primary ride is far improved (which I think is likely a result of having a lot more droop than before).

Basically, I reckon I've about cracked the best setup for a very performance orientated 996 road car i.e. something you can send down a B road without bits decking out or your fillings falling out whilst being arrow straight and planted at speed on the motorway!

[Mikeeb]

Going to share the geo numbers???