Knackered old Porsche with loads of miles - 996 content
Discussion
Centre Gravity seem to have an amazing rep among Porsche owners on PH, but I can't really see what they offer that other Porsche specialists can't. There are several Porsche specialists with decades of road and race experience who offer to tailor the alignment to the use case of the customer.
Is it the level of involvement with the customer that CG provide, in terms of time explaining and showing the process, rather than the actual finished article itself of setting the alignment? Or do they genuinely have super set-up secrets that mean they can make the car drive better than anyone else can?
Is it the level of involvement with the customer that CG provide, in terms of time explaining and showing the process, rather than the actual finished article itself of setting the alignment? Or do they genuinely have super set-up secrets that mean they can make the car drive better than anyone else can?
Edited by clubracing on Thursday 22 June 09:26
Three words : Attention to detail.
Take your 996 into many specialists and ask them to do a geo set up. And they will. Tired top mounts, sagging springs, worn outer coffin arm balljoints and all.
CG won’t do that, they insist on assessing every component of the car’s suspension and then advise what should be replaced before even attempting to do any set up work on the car.
Once they’re happy the car’s suspension components are optimal, only them will they undertake a geo set up.
Here again things are “a bit different” from other outfits. “Close enough” or “within the manufacturers tolerances” aren’t good enough for CG. It is spot on, or keep adjusting and readjusting until it is spot on. And if that means working ‘til 6,7,8,9,10pm to get it right, that’s what they’ll do.
What you end up with is a car set up the way the design engineers at Porsche intended it to be, be that the ride heights, rake, toe, camber, castor.
The difference between a car set up “near enough” and “precisely” is quite frankly staggering. And the end result makes you appreciate what a joyous thing to drive a properly set up Porsche is, when it’s suspension components are in rude health.
But they also tailor the cars to their customers wishes. Going to spend your time behind the wheel driving round and round in circles ? I think they’re called trackdays, CG will set the car up to suit your driving style.
Want to spend your weekends hooning across the bumpiest, twisty Welsh backroads out there, they can do that too, or if you want to spend your time in Europe flat out on their smoothest roads, not a problem.
Take your 996 into many specialists and ask them to do a geo set up. And they will. Tired top mounts, sagging springs, worn outer coffin arm balljoints and all.
CG won’t do that, they insist on assessing every component of the car’s suspension and then advise what should be replaced before even attempting to do any set up work on the car.
Once they’re happy the car’s suspension components are optimal, only them will they undertake a geo set up.
Here again things are “a bit different” from other outfits. “Close enough” or “within the manufacturers tolerances” aren’t good enough for CG. It is spot on, or keep adjusting and readjusting until it is spot on. And if that means working ‘til 6,7,8,9,10pm to get it right, that’s what they’ll do.
What you end up with is a car set up the way the design engineers at Porsche intended it to be, be that the ride heights, rake, toe, camber, castor.
The difference between a car set up “near enough” and “precisely” is quite frankly staggering. And the end result makes you appreciate what a joyous thing to drive a properly set up Porsche is, when it’s suspension components are in rude health.
But they also tailor the cars to their customers wishes. Going to spend your time behind the wheel driving round and round in circles ? I think they’re called trackdays, CG will set the car up to suit your driving style.
Want to spend your weekends hooning across the bumpiest, twisty Welsh backroads out there, they can do that too, or if you want to spend your time in Europe flat out on their smoothest roads, not a problem.
Exactly this. My 996 C2 has been CG setup - no fancy coilovers, just some standard springs and Koni Special Active dampers. I removed the M030 suspension as it wasn't for me.
I wanted certain driving characteristics, including loads of steering feel. The guys set it up and it works brilliantly on road. Fantastic ride, great handling and an engaging drive with the typical 911 feel.
I wanted certain driving characteristics, including loads of steering feel. The guys set it up and it works brilliantly on road. Fantastic ride, great handling and an engaging drive with the typical 911 feel.
It really doesn't seem like anything that other specialists aren't able to provide if that's the level of attention to detail that the customer wants. Not all Porsche specialists but as I said above, I'm sure several will happily charge customers for a suspension refresh first, and the time to tailor the alignment to the customers use of the car and making sure the settings are exact.
clubracing said:
It really doesn't seem like anything that other specialists aren't able to provide if that's the level of attention to detail that the customer wants. Not all Porsche specialists but as I said above, I'm sure several will happily charge customers for a suspension refresh first, and the time to tailor the alignment to the customers use of the car and making sure the settings are exact.
Possibly, but that's not my experience of the ones I've used over the last 20 years ....I was the first owner to take a Porsche to CG back in 2007 (they were heavily involved in the Honda S2000 scene then, and had already forged an excellent reputation in those circles) It's a lengthy read, but worthwhile :
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=44...
Added to which, CG have done so many cars over the years, they now know what works and what doesn't both in terms of set up and component choices.
I very much doubt I would.
I’ve had my 996 17 years and covered >150k miles (car has >210k on the clock). In that time I’ve had 2 full suspension refreshes and tried numerous alignments.
There’s not enough range of adjustment on stock suspension parts to do much other than play with the toe… without adjustable top mounts and control arms max front camber is c.1* (OEM is 0 IIRC), max rear is c.1.5* (OEM is 1* IIRC)… if you’re lowered you’ll be at the max 1.5*. Whether you run stock camber or max out won’t make much difference to how the car feels.
You can change the way the car feels with toe, but it’s a trade off.
Anyone who’s competent with a hunter can put a factory set up on a 996.. and tweak to owners requirements if they know what they want (my toe settings are not standard, for example).
Completely different story if you have coil overs and adjustable top mounts/control arms. Then you have options like adjustable rebound, ride height, rake, more camber… maybe even spring rate options depending on coil over manufacturer.
I’ve had my 996 17 years and covered >150k miles (car has >210k on the clock). In that time I’ve had 2 full suspension refreshes and tried numerous alignments.
There’s not enough range of adjustment on stock suspension parts to do much other than play with the toe… without adjustable top mounts and control arms max front camber is c.1* (OEM is 0 IIRC), max rear is c.1.5* (OEM is 1* IIRC)… if you’re lowered you’ll be at the max 1.5*. Whether you run stock camber or max out won’t make much difference to how the car feels.
You can change the way the car feels with toe, but it’s a trade off.
Anyone who’s competent with a hunter can put a factory set up on a 996.. and tweak to owners requirements if they know what they want (my toe settings are not standard, for example).
Completely different story if you have coil overs and adjustable top mounts/control arms. Then you have options like adjustable rebound, ride height, rake, more camber… maybe even spring rate options depending on coil over manufacturer.
One from C&M today, first proper run out somewhere in it since I rebuilt it!
Happy to report all systems working as they should including the E-Aircon. The new suspension setup is so much better, took the Fosse home to experiment over choppy B road surfaces and it is so much more well behaved, stable and grippy!
Happy to report all systems working as they should including the E-Aircon. The new suspension setup is so much better, took the Fosse home to experiment over choppy B road surfaces and it is so much more well behaved, stable and grippy!
loudlashadjuster said:
Looking great, PPBB. There’s just something about sorted cars that you can sense, and yours definitely exudes it in spades.
What he said! Great, great car and a joy to see someone who not only cares about his car, but goes beyond what is is normal TLC and basically reengineers certain aspect of the car based on the vast experience PPBB gathered over many thousand miles of most interesting driving all across europe.
Bravo!
Thanks for the great feedback chaps - genuinely making me blush
Great failure today though:
Drivers side window regulator made a bad noise and that was that, never seen this failure mode before as the cable has jumped off the pulley and bound up on the metal work. Likely fixable but it was a rubbish pattern part that had gone in during lockdown when no OEM ones were in stock. I actually had a spare for the Boxster (as it has a lazy window drop) so pilfered that for the 996 and all is well again. Window regs are one of those jobs where the first time seems to take ages of dicking around getting it all to line up but subsequent ones are an hour at most
I also had this big chunk of Shadowfoam in stock:
One of the jobs I've wanted to do for ages was make a Froot tidy / carrier so with a bit of scalpeling:
OE tool rool, jack, jack handle, emergency tyre weld, jump pack, tyre inflator and a litre of Millers finest now have a proper home!
Frankly romping through the nice to have jobs now the car is back together. Next job is the new dash display which will replace the AIM one I used to run, this should match the general look and feel of the 996 far better.
Also had some time to put some miles on it, clocked up 375 miles to Wales and back, did the old Evo Triangle and was very gutted to see that not only is the Sportsman now closed but also it's covered with average speed cameras. I am so very pleased with the new spring rates and setup, over broken road surfaces and general B roads it is superb - yes it's lost a touch of track capability but it's such a small amount vs the usability it now has on the ever worsening UK roads!
No issues to report on the run out bar a panel making an annoying buzzing in the back..... better make sure I put all the fasteners back into that!
Oh and in other news I have a new whiteboard in the workshop:
Upcycling and all that!
Great failure today though:
Drivers side window regulator made a bad noise and that was that, never seen this failure mode before as the cable has jumped off the pulley and bound up on the metal work. Likely fixable but it was a rubbish pattern part that had gone in during lockdown when no OEM ones were in stock. I actually had a spare for the Boxster (as it has a lazy window drop) so pilfered that for the 996 and all is well again. Window regs are one of those jobs where the first time seems to take ages of dicking around getting it all to line up but subsequent ones are an hour at most
I also had this big chunk of Shadowfoam in stock:
One of the jobs I've wanted to do for ages was make a Froot tidy / carrier so with a bit of scalpeling:
OE tool rool, jack, jack handle, emergency tyre weld, jump pack, tyre inflator and a litre of Millers finest now have a proper home!
Frankly romping through the nice to have jobs now the car is back together. Next job is the new dash display which will replace the AIM one I used to run, this should match the general look and feel of the 996 far better.
Also had some time to put some miles on it, clocked up 375 miles to Wales and back, did the old Evo Triangle and was very gutted to see that not only is the Sportsman now closed but also it's covered with average speed cameras. I am so very pleased with the new spring rates and setup, over broken road surfaces and general B roads it is superb - yes it's lost a touch of track capability but it's such a small amount vs the usability it now has on the ever worsening UK roads!
No issues to report on the run out bar a panel making an annoying buzzing in the back..... better make sure I put all the fasteners back into that!
Oh and in other news I have a new whiteboard in the workshop:
Upcycling and all that!
nebpor said:
snotrag said:
Lovely, lovely, bump eating suspension travel 
Exactly! It's what is needed on our roads these days. Ten years ago when the car was used for European Autoroutes more than anything else it was much less of a consideration and the ability to do a few sighting laps etc. at the destination also had an impact on some of the choices made but these days with the cars more GT orientated setup and the focus on all round usability regardless of country I am very, very happy with the suspension setup. Being able to properly thump some big bumps mid corner without the car reacting badly is very pleasing indeed!
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