Knackered old Porsche with loads of miles - 996 content
Discussion
Seek said:
Peugeot Spider 207
175hp @ 720kg
Let me know if you need help with the Danish end of things.
I'm there quite a bit.
Peugeot THP Spider Evolution - two intercoolers, a bigger turbo, quick fill fueling and 220bhp 175hp @ 720kg
Let me know if you need help with the Danish end of things.
I'm there quite a bit.
I road tripped to Denmark last weekend to pick it up and aside from 1700 miles in the car transporter being SLLLOOOOWWWWW it's back here in the UK now and ready for prep. Thanks for the offer though, it is really appreciated LankyLegoHead said:
Brilliant car. Cant remember if I've posted in here before, but bravo! Makes me hanker for an old doggy 996 even more! The Aerokit just works on that shape, it shouldn't, but it does.
Judging by your composite skills and Industry, theres a fair chance we've either crossed paths or know similar people. Looks like you get the joys of NX too...
Yes I'm of the same opinion re: the aero kit. I know some people hate it but to me it makes the Mk1 996....... just no rear spats please Judging by your composite skills and Industry, theres a fair chance we've either crossed paths or know similar people. Looks like you get the joys of NX too...
It's a small old village so no doubt we know similar people, we do get involved with a little bit of road car stuff - especially when there is a need to integrate some bleeding edge ex F1 stuff into a road car, I think we were the first to integrate proper DRS (rather than flappy wings) into a road car for example and we had a lot of involvement with the BAC Mono in the early stages of taking it from CAD to a production prototype.
CrashBang said:
PPBB,
Would it possible you to comment on the 3.7 upgrade now that you have had a little time to soak it in.
How noticeable is the additional performance? How much quicker is the car from a hard data perspective?
Would you happen to have any circuit laptime info giving before and after numbers? (Obviously achieved during private testing as timing is not permitted on trackdays
)
Are you able to draw a comparison against a 996 GT3 (996.1 & 996.2) in terms of engine performance?
Many thanks
This is a really interesting set of questions. From my perspective having done a lot of miles with a mildly tuned 3.4 before converting it to 3.7 I wasn't expecting it to make the difference it has, since it's become clear from someone elses research who needs much credit for it that the increase in displacement under the standard heads makes a big difference to the port velocities as essentially the ports are oversized to begin with - this goes quite a long way to explaining why they go quite so well with only a small increase in overall capacity. Would it possible you to comment on the 3.7 upgrade now that you have had a little time to soak it in.
How noticeable is the additional performance? How much quicker is the car from a hard data perspective?
Would you happen to have any circuit laptime info giving before and after numbers? (Obviously achieved during private testing as timing is not permitted on trackdays
)Are you able to draw a comparison against a 996 GT3 (996.1 & 996.2) in terms of engine performance?
Many thanks
The most noticeable thing is the increase in mid range torque. It feels hugely stronger than a standard car. High RPM performance is also far stronger but the torque curve remains the same with the engine peaking at 6K odd, this is really a product of the standard cams which I wanted to keep for driveability and mid-range as it is, afterall, still a road car! Timing from the data system and launching it as hard as you would want to on a clutch you are paying for yourself it records 0-60mph in 4.6 seconds, 0-100mph in 10 seconds flat and I would hope it would do a sub 12 second 1/4 mile which is really close to a GT3. Which brings me onto your last question, from playing with a friends GT3 Mk1 there is no difference in them, the gear change points are different due to the differences in gearing and engine RPM but the cars are equally as quick, the C4 maybe a little quicker from a standing start. Aero, cornering ability etc. are also identical, my car is a smidge heavier but then has more torque at lower RPM so this is somewhat offset by that.
With a GT3 Mk1 now at £70K odd I think mine has been a bit of a bargain, even with the spend I have made on it. It is a (touch over) half price GT3 which is far more daily driveable.
They do bolt up to the standard 3 bolt flanges however there seems to be a bit of a shortage of the decent ones on e-bay at the moment. There are three types, one can be spotted by how poor the collectors are (three pipes shoved into one large pipe, hammered down and welded), one has cast manifolds flanges (these are okay) and one is a copy of the FVD design which are the best, these have a single laser cut flange with a formed pipe joint and a decent collector design.
The supply is usually a bit sporadic so best thing is to keep an eye out on e-bay.
The supply is usually a bit sporadic so best thing is to keep an eye out on e-bay.
Edited by poppopbangbang on Sunday 10th December 22:58
Obviously given the huge amounts of snow around my way, the completely unsuitable wide track focused tyres on the car and the risk of it being shunted by other drivers in these conditions I've done the sensible thing over the past few days........... and continued to use it as a daily 
It is absolutely mental just how well it deals with these conditions, tyres clearly are not ideal but it's not got stuck yet and they are a million times better than I was expecting them to be although I do have some chains in case it does run out of traction. It's all good practice and testing for the planned trip to the Arctic circle next year too!
It is absolutely mental just how well it deals with these conditions, tyres clearly are not ideal but it's not got stuck yet and they are a million times better than I was expecting them to be although I do have some chains in case it does run out of traction. It's all good practice and testing for the planned trip to the Arctic circle next year too!
Krikkit said:
What's the torque split like on the C4? Is it a constant split F:R, or is it Haldex-style RWD then slip-induced?
Default is 5/95 with upto 40% available to the front depending on how much the rears are spinning. It's a viscous centre diff so not as clever as Haldex but mine is tweeked to provide more front drive, sooner than a standard C4 and it does seem to work very well in the snow - I've had all four wheels spinning a few times over the past days CornedBeef said:
Love a picture of it all filthy from use! How many miles are you on now?
I haven't had a chance to try my C2 in the snow because Hampshire didn't really get any, at least where I live - boring rain/sleet instead.
Just closing in on 340K miles, I've been slacking this year!I haven't had a chance to try my C2 in the snow because Hampshire didn't really get any, at least where I live - boring rain/sleet instead.
chuntington101 said:
poppopbangbang, Just thinking about the engine rebuild that you have carried out. What is the biggest the current block(s) can go in terms of reliable capacity? Is there a point of diminishing returns in terms of capacity?
3.9L using the 3.6 crank on a 100mm bore. I was much keener on keeping the shorter stroke of the 3.4L crank though to create a more over square engine. At 100mm bore and 78mm stroke it's in a nice place with regards piston speeds, crank load etc. as this engine spends a lot of time turning at 5K RPM or so. Having said that going to 3.9L on a 3.6L crank will be no less reliable than the 3.6L was with regards to piston speeds etc. probably more reliable as the 100mm pistons are lighter. CountZero23 said:
Just read the whole thread over a couple of evenings.
I'm not going to pretend I understand all the technical details but its certainly put to bed any thoughts of early 996's having 'chocolate engines'.
Fallen into the usual trap befalling readers and have been looking over the classifieds.
Ticks a lot of boxes as I want a bit of a mile muncher and while I'm almost sold on a Z4 I could stretch to a 996. Prices seem to be rising slowly but gaining speed. This does make the man maths easier.
Could see you claiming another victim PPBB.
Thanks for one of the best threads I've read on here, hugely informative and entertaining
Every time I drive something else it reminds me just how good a 996 is. Yes they have their weaknesses (like any other vehicle does) but I do think those weaknesses are more than a little over hyped with regards just how common they are. For me there is nothing else I'd rather have than this car as it does everything I need a car to do so very well.I'm not going to pretend I understand all the technical details but its certainly put to bed any thoughts of early 996's having 'chocolate engines'.
Fallen into the usual trap befalling readers and have been looking over the classifieds.
Ticks a lot of boxes as I want a bit of a mile muncher and while I'm almost sold on a Z4 I could stretch to a 996. Prices seem to be rising slowly but gaining speed. This does make the man maths easier.
Could see you claiming another victim PPBB.
Thanks for one of the best threads I've read on here, hugely informative and entertaining
Following plowing through the snow for the past week it has been treated to a wash and a night off (as I needed to bus some people about so I took the Mazda):
Although the Mazda is truly rubbish is low grip conditions, says something when the knocking on for 400bhp 911 is the sensible, low effort choice when it's cold, wet and a bit icy!
I'm always impressed how well it comes up after a once over as most of the paint is still original. Aside from the wheel studs turning brown you can't tell it's been out in the salt for the past couple of weeks.
Although the Mazda is truly rubbish is low grip conditions, says something when the knocking on for 400bhp 911 is the sensible, low effort choice when it's cold, wet and a bit icy!
I'm always impressed how well it comes up after a once over as most of the paint is still original. Aside from the wheel studs turning brown you can't tell it's been out in the salt for the past couple of weeks.
Rocket. said:
Which tyres are you running on it at the moment please ? Sorry if already posted but I had a good look back and could not see.
I think am also going for a set of the 18 OZ Alleggerita wheels for my Cayman S but not sure on which tyres to go for, it will be 50/50 road and track, I have also recently fitted the Ohlins R+T on my car and love them.
Please keep the updates coming, what a great bit of kit.
I am using Yokohama AD08R, 235 on the front and 295 on the back. They are many times better than a R888 or similar in the wet, being actually usable in standing water but still a cut above a "normal" summer tyre in the dry - they also have a very stiff sidewall, something really needed on a 996 due to the high rear axle loading compared to most saloons and hatches. I think am also going for a set of the 18 OZ Alleggerita wheels for my Cayman S but not sure on which tyres to go for, it will be 50/50 road and track, I have also recently fitted the Ohlins R+T on my car and love them.
Please keep the updates coming, what a great bit of kit.
Paynewright said:
No new year message (update) from PPBB?
An hour after New Year I am in no state (or location) to be typing Happy New Year To All!
The popularity of this thread continues to amaze me and thank you to all that have contributed to it, when I started it some time ago now I really didn't think it would gather much interest and it was really just a nod to the car on request of some friends to say well done for making it this far..... the old knacker continues to do great things and there are some additional upgrades that I'd like to complete this year, between racing the Pug Spider and work commitments it will be a busy year!
Some plans already in progress are:
- Take it to the Arctic circle/see how quickly you can get to the arctic circle by road.
- Bigger aux tank repackaged to provide some front storage space.
- Paint it - as it is looking really very second hand now!
- Upgrade the infotainment as it is 5 years old now and phone integration isn't great.
I'll keep you all informed of how it goes
Oldwolf said:
Thanks for sharing, another enjoyable read from PPBB!
Can I ask where you got the CREE lights from as all the ones that I've seen have the fan which I'm keen to avoid.
Thanks and looking forward to further updates!
You need to look for passive cooled ones, they are quite a bit rarer than fan cooled ones but obviously much more reliable if you can get the airflow to them. I think HIDs 4 U still do a version of them or there are versions from Osram, Philips, MES and PIAA. Can I ask where you got the CREE lights from as all the ones that I've seen have the fan which I'm keen to avoid.
Thanks and looking forward to further updates!
ATM said:
I'm toying with the idea of going down to 17 inch wheels with slimmer tyres as I'm hoping this will make my 996 c2 move around more at lower speeds. With its current 225 40 / 265 35 18 setup it is so planted I have never managed to get it out of shape once - rain or shine. I've found a set of the original 17 inch Porsche wheels for my car [google image below] with 205 50 front and 255 40 rears. I just thought I'd ask if you think this would work, will it make the car slide easier or will this combo just give me a bit of understeer?
They are planted by design and reducing the tyre width I don't think will achieve what you want, it sounds like you are really after something that behaves a little more like a conventional front engined, RWD car? A 996 is never going to do this as it has so much weight over the rear wheels. The traction is really one of the things that appeals to me greatly and allows me to use mine like I do, where I do. In this respect they are brutally effective as transport but I get that not everyone will find them fun in the M3 sense of the word. One thing to consider is that the rear suspension design is such that as the car squats the rear wheels toe in. You could look at making some geometry changes to reduced the amount of static toe in on the rear of the car which in turn would reduce the amount of toe in under compression i.e. acceleration and this would make the rear of the car keener to rotate. This will have far more effect than reducing the tyre width by a small amount and is a cheap thing to tinker with
lordf said:
PPBB do you have any recommendations for uprated CV / Wheel bearing grease based of your EXP?
For CVs or tripod joints Red Line CV2 is hard to beat, especially at the price it is. Pack it as you would a normal CV joint.For wheel bearings Kluber Isoflex Topas NB 152. Pack to 30% of the bearing free space and run it in to distribute the grease in the bearing.
A small update, the car has had a pretty easy time of it so far this year - I'm trying to address as many things as possible during the first half of the year, this is the first time in my ownership that I've had chance to do this - previously it has always been two weeks a year off for planned maintenance. One of the things I want to do soon is paint, it's approaching the point now where it is past "patina" and into "untidy" so shortly it will spend some time in the body shop to have the side skirts removed, bumpers, bonnet and front wings painted, new side skirt mounts made and skirts painted and refitted.
In the mean time it's had a rear suspension refresh with new coffin arms, wheel bearings, hubs, wheel studs etc. as well as new hand brake cables, hand brake shoes, rear discs and pads as all this was up on mileage.
I've also finally got around to getting the larger rear driveshafts on the car, these have the same size lobros as the early cars but a much thicker shaft. As I've snapped a shaft pratting around in the past this seemed a good idea. As usual they're packed with CV2.
I'd forgotten how wide 11" rears look on a narrow body car!
One thing I still need to investigate is getting some more droop into the rear suspension as I think this will help with the current state of UK roads, I hope to get around to that in the near future.
The old thing still looks the part
Further updates coming soon
so shortly it will spend some time in the body shop to have the side skirts removed, bumpers, bonnet and front wings painted, new side skirt mounts made and skirts painted and refitted. In the mean time it's had a rear suspension refresh with new coffin arms, wheel bearings, hubs, wheel studs etc. as well as new hand brake cables, hand brake shoes, rear discs and pads as all this was up on mileage.
I've also finally got around to getting the larger rear driveshafts on the car, these have the same size lobros as the early cars but a much thicker shaft. As I've snapped a shaft pratting around in the past this seemed a good idea. As usual they're packed with CV2.
I'd forgotten how wide 11" rears look on a narrow body car!
One thing I still need to investigate is getting some more droop into the rear suspension as I think this will help with the current state of UK roads, I hope to get around to that in the near future.
The old thing still looks the part
Further updates coming soon
johnfm said:
His e30 was 'effing brilliant. It hurts me to talk about it 'cos I didn't bloody buy it.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Sadly, all the pics and details deleted.
Simple sleeper. I think he popped a 2.5 litre in from an e39 3 series. Upgraded everything, great brakes, extra cooling, etc etc. Was just lovely.
It was 2014 and I still think of that bloody car!
I really shouldn't have sold it, it still bugs me today that the guy who took ownership turned out to be (for want of a better word) a muppet and absolutely ruined it over the follow few months before breaking it for bits - proof indeed that some people just can't have nice things https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Sadly, all the pics and details deleted.
Simple sleeper. I think he popped a 2.5 litre in from an e39 3 series. Upgraded everything, great brakes, extra cooling, etc etc. Was just lovely.
It was 2014 and I still think of that bloody car!
It's on my list to build another as I still love the E30 for its tiny size and retro cool!
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