Fiesta ST stage 3 build
Discussion
Scobblelotcher said:
I always think it depends on application, if you want a fast road car you want a wide power band with a decent proportion of power/torque arriving early(ish) in the rev range whereas if it’s a track car then it may not be so much of an issue.
The car which you previously said you were considering, M135/40i’s main trick is a larger engine with a smaller (twin scroll) turbo that delivers peak torque at 1300rpm which gives it that muscular power delivery and gives it a very wide power band. In comparison I have a friend with a 512bhp Impreza (2.0) that runs a large turbo and it’s as flat as a pancake below 4.5k revs when suddenly it delivers a lot of power to its redline (approx 6.5k) which just means for the road it just isn’t as usable for the road.
Yeah that's the thing with me, I'm not the type of person that has a fun car and a daily car, I want a car I can use every day and still provide some thrill. A big part of that for me is usable and efficient power. My ST at the moment at stage 2 is quick enough but I'm just wanting a bit more power. Like I've said, I think 400bhp in this application would be a bit overkill and drivability would probably go out the window The car which you previously said you were considering, M135/40i’s main trick is a larger engine with a smaller (twin scroll) turbo that delivers peak torque at 1300rpm which gives it that muscular power delivery and gives it a very wide power band. In comparison I have a friend with a 512bhp Impreza (2.0) that runs a large turbo and it’s as flat as a pancake below 4.5k revs when suddenly it delivers a lot of power to its redline (approx 6.5k) which just means for the road it just isn’t as usable for the road.
WCZ said:
nice!
do you have any recomendations of where to find these spare parts? I've been looking but it seems people seem to sell their cars modified and dont bother paying to have the original turbo put back on etc as it's a fair bit of work
do you have any recomendations of where to find these spare parts? I've been looking but it seems people seem to sell their cars modified and dont bother paying to have the original turbo put back on etc as it's a fair bit of work
This just popped up on marketplace, apparently comes with a couple of boost hoses and a decat pipe. Really good price to be honest, just not too sure if I personally am ready to stick a second hand turbo onto the car. I've got nothing against second hand parts, it's just the second hand stuff obviously won't be as reliable and who knows what kind of life this turbo has had previously
J4CKO said:
Dont need 400 bhp, I went for the TT 270 and its fast enough for a 1200 kilo Fiesta, can obviously go further and on open roads it could handle more but you are soon into ban territory at that power level (300 ish allegedly) and it almost feels a bit too much on the country lanes if I am honest.
Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
Yep, certainly won't hang about. I'm quite happy with my Collins map so far (CP2E) , I am very tempted with CP5 but it's all about weighing up my options. I think I may focus on getting the car to look how I want (spitter kit all around, lowering springs, different wheels and possibly some spacers??) But that will be the focus after Christmas Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
J4CKO said:
CP2E is ace, it should be enough but suspect you are like me where enough is never quite enough, which sounds like a s
t Bond film.
Dont rush it, get it done properly and enjoy it .
My son sold his Golf R, he is home this weekend and will be taking this back to Scotland for a coupel of weeks.
Yeah it's not bad at all, not had it on a dyno so no idea of figures but to be honest all dynos are different so the only reason I'd take the car to one is now at stage 2 and then at stage 3 to see the difference.t Bond film.Dont rush it, get it done properly and enjoy it .
My son sold his Golf R, he is home this weekend and will be taking this back to Scotland for a coupel of weeks.
I aim to keep this car for a while. So I'm in no rush at all
I'll second what Scobble said, any reason why he sold it? Just because I'm a big Golf R fan and want to know if he liked it or not
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Sunday 31st October 20:35
Scobblelotcher said:
I feel exactly the same way you do about the M135i and Golf R. Both decent cars but ultimately I didn't click with either. I am, however super impressed by you creating a new generation of petrol heads! 
I like bits about each but in the end I just drove them as transport devices and never felt the need to go and have a fun drive with either. The M135i is fine as a GT car until you start to push it and find it's not very well sorted. The Golf R is very well sorted but sadly quite boring to drive, the noise is average and the levels of grip just make it feel totally planted without any drama. The Golf R is also very dead from a steering, feedback perspective and I don't really like the DSG as it has some weird quirks.
I think AWD cars can feel dull unless they are at a wild level of tune but the problem is when they get to that level they become very expensive to own/maintain and pushing them results in license losing speeds. My old Impreza (1999) was 255bhp from the factory (@1150kg) but didn't feel fun until it was tuned over 330bhp (I finished with it at 394 or 373 on normal fuel) and it would move around under hard acceleration and felt alive but again you'd have to drive it hard to really enjoy it. Otherwise it was noisy, heavy clutch and responded poorly below 3.5k revs.
This for me is the genius of cars like the Fiesta ST that are nimble, provide feedback, quick enough for the road and cheap to run.
Honestly, I've driven a lot of new performance cars and very few (like the Fiesta ST) are fun anymore, they are very fast, heavy and hugely competent but not fun and engaging.
I think it's one of the reasons I went back to having fun on motorbikes, the thrill factor is just massive compared to cars and they are super cheap to buy and own, plus for me it allows me to beat the heavy city traffic by being able to filter.
Dammit I like bits about each but in the end I just drove them as transport devices and never felt the need to go and have a fun drive with either. The M135i is fine as a GT car until you start to push it and find it's not very well sorted. The Golf R is very well sorted but sadly quite boring to drive, the noise is average and the levels of grip just make it feel totally planted without any drama. The Golf R is also very dead from a steering, feedback perspective and I don't really like the DSG as it has some weird quirks.
I think AWD cars can feel dull unless they are at a wild level of tune but the problem is when they get to that level they become very expensive to own/maintain and pushing them results in license losing speeds. My old Impreza (1999) was 255bhp from the factory (@1150kg) but didn't feel fun until it was tuned over 330bhp (I finished with it at 394 or 373 on normal fuel) and it would move around under hard acceleration and felt alive but again you'd have to drive it hard to really enjoy it. Otherwise it was noisy, heavy clutch and responded poorly below 3.5k revs.
This for me is the genius of cars like the Fiesta ST that are nimble, provide feedback, quick enough for the road and cheap to run.
Honestly, I've driven a lot of new performance cars and very few (like the Fiesta ST) are fun anymore, they are very fast, heavy and hugely competent but not fun and engaging.
I think it's one of the reasons I went back to having fun on motorbikes, the thrill factor is just massive compared to cars and they are super cheap to buy and own, plus for me it allows me to beat the heavy city traffic by being able to filter.
Edited by Scobblelotcher on Monday 1st November 15:02
that's annoyed me because I really like both the M135i and Golf R. I think if I had a Golf R I'd be going stage 2 on it and then ultimately making my way towards stage 3. For a 2.0 the tuning capabilities are immense ( I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea). M135i's are really good value for money in my opinion, but barely anyone pushes them past the 400bhp mark, couple of 500bhp builds here in the UK but not many compared to the likes of the M140i which seems to have been the tuner's choice when it comes to hot hatches. I think as long as you sort out the handling on the m lites I think they're ok. May book a test drive in both an M135i and a Golf R in the new year, just to see if they'll impress me enough to become a future project
J4CKO said:
I think at 400 bhp or more its labouring a point for road use anyway, its pretty cool to have mega power but not really necessary, the M140i is more suitable for big power engine wise, but not sure they need it, rude not to do a map and some bits but when you are in 500 plus that is a serious amount of power.
I think some go from the ST to one and love it as they are posher, comfier and have more power but its not a win/win, guarantee you will miss the Fiesta in some respects.
It leaves me a bit confused as to what to go for next, not that I am looking .
I might miss it when I finally move on, one bonus about a fiesta is you can buy them for around 5-6k so if I fancy going back I can I think some go from the ST to one and love it as they are posher, comfier and have more power but its not a win/win, guarantee you will miss the Fiesta in some respects.
It leaves me a bit confused as to what to go for next, not that I am looking .
. I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason. Edited by Dylanaledhall on Monday 1st November 20:52
J4CKO said:
Dylanaledhall said:
I might miss it when I finally move on, one bonus about a fiesta is you can buy them for around 5-6k so if I fancy going back I can . I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason.
You have to be sure, easy to get swayed by posher badges, shiny new things, 4wd and more power etc, after the initial novelty does it get under your skin ? Dont want to over eulogise the Fiesta ST as its not perfect, the ride is crap, people think you are a bit of a knob and they get nicked all the time but it just has something that not all cars do, but we dont all like the same things. . I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason. ZX10R NIN said:
If it hasn't been done in a while then a fluid & filter change will make a significant difference to it's shift & it'll adapt itself to his driving style.
Yeah its on the list for when he comes back for Christmas, just getting some miles on it to see if its worth it, had to top the oil up today, took a litre and he has done 700 miles but doesnt know when it last had some, prob the service in May and its done 5/6 k since then, probably an aged turbo.The thefts, while an issue, it's the same story for many other cars such as Golf Rs, Audi S3s/ RS3s, RS4s, M3s/M4s, SVRs, RS6s etc etc so as long as you're willing to fork out on extra security it'll give you a better piece of mind. it won't stop anyone from stealing it ( I've always known if they want the car, they'll take it) And to be honest, I'd rather them just take it over potentially breaking into my house threatening myself or my family just to find the keys. I personally do have added security but if someone really wanted it, they'd easily take it.
I think overall, it is just a very fun, affordable package. Yes there are so many "better cars" for the money, as you've said, we don't all like the same thing. But when I started driving I always lusted after an ST. Now at 21 I finally own what is a dream car of mine, some people dream of Lamborghinis and Ferraris but I'm just happy with my little Fiesta. I think my next "dream" car would either be an M3/M4 or an Evo
Just a little update, got a new windscreen fitted a few days ago. Somehow the week I got the car I managed to get a chip the size of a 5p piece, got it filled by autoglass. Few months later a little hairline crack started to appear ( didn't really pay much notice to it). Then a few weeks ago, my girlfriend and I were out in the car and she noticed that the crack had extended to the bottom half of the windscreen. It must have just happened because I'd have noticed it, although it was quite low on the passenger side. Long story short it kept getting worse and worse over the last week and I complained to autoglass by saying the crack originated from the chip they fixed. They agreed and I got a brand new heated windscreen for free. Not bad
At the moment there's a few second hand hybrids I've got my eye on. The guy that was selling the X47r on ebay still has it but he wants £800 which I think is a bit steep considering it's used and I have no idea what kind of condition it's in or what kind of treatment it's had throughout its life. There's an S280 for £450 in Cardiff so I've messaged the guy but no response yet. I'll keep you all posted
J4CKO said:
Be very careful, few scam artists doing the rounds selling ST stuff, pick up in person if possible.
This is exactly my issue. I'm not against second hand parts but you're bang on. The one in Cardiff is close to me so if he gets back I'll probably do a deal and get it this weekend Sorry I've been quiet on here lately guys. Unfortunately don't really have much of an update due to the fact I've recently bought my first house. But don't worry, I still have the car, just might take a little longer than I thought 
Hopefully if I've got enough money by the summer saved up, might be able to get a hybrid by then. But until then, I'm going to try and have a lookout for the other bits and bobs I may need. Although I was swaying towards an X47R, I think I may end up going with the S280. Although it's a bit pricier, it is bigger and without injectors they can reach around 340bhp-350bhp. Something I've seen a lot recently is the X47R cars tend to underperform in comparison to what pumaspeed claim ( power wise ). Yes it's a very popular turbo and it's fairly reliable, however I've watched many independent Dyno runs where X47R powered cars sometimes don't even crack 300bhp ( yup, one video showed an X47R car only making 277bhp
) Although some would argue that's probably the sweet spot with these STs, if I'm paying stage 3 money, I want the full experience. And I think we can all agree these cars handle 300bhp with ease. Yes, you may need uprated brakes and possibly a diff, but mechanically they'll put up with the abuse providing you look after it 
Back to the S280; With uprated injectors they have seen passed 370bhp but I doubt I'll ever be brave enough to do that without forging the engine. Another reason to go with the S280 is because Collins Performance use it with their maps and the car is Collins powered and I've got no complaints with the CP2E thus far. Thanks guys
Hopefully if I've got enough money by the summer saved up, might be able to get a hybrid by then. But until then, I'm going to try and have a lookout for the other bits and bobs I may need. Although I was swaying towards an X47R, I think I may end up going with the S280. Although it's a bit pricier, it is bigger and without injectors they can reach around 340bhp-350bhp. Something I've seen a lot recently is the X47R cars tend to underperform in comparison to what pumaspeed claim ( power wise ). Yes it's a very popular turbo and it's fairly reliable, however I've watched many independent Dyno runs where X47R powered cars sometimes don't even crack 300bhp ( yup, one video showed an X47R car only making 277bhp
) Although some would argue that's probably the sweet spot with these STs, if I'm paying stage 3 money, I want the full experience. And I think we can all agree these cars handle 300bhp with ease. Yes, you may need uprated brakes and possibly a diff, but mechanically they'll put up with the abuse providing you look after it Back to the S280; With uprated injectors they have seen passed 370bhp but I doubt I'll ever be brave enough to do that without forging the engine. Another reason to go with the S280 is because Collins Performance use it with their maps and the car is Collins powered and I've got no complaints with the CP2E thus far. Thanks guys
J4CKO said:
Collins will do an S280 with a lower power output, sort of CP4 plus as I asked if this was an option and they said no, then announced it a couple of weeks later much to my consternation.
This saves the cost of the injectors, not seen any power figures but would expect it to be around 320, and then it keeps the cost down and gives you more scope going forward where I have the 270 and that's at its limit pretty much. Think after that it would be around £1300 I guess to go full CP5.
I spoke to Dave Boyce the other day and to go from CP4 to CP5, i.e. my current setup to a 280 with injectors it would be around £2500 which, though I have the cash there, just doesn't seem like a good return for another 30 or so bhp which if I am honest the car doesn't need, its just me wondering what if. Don't want to put even more money into the car, maybe a few quid on bits and pieces but not another £2500.
Dont think many go CP4, seems to be 280 or nothing for a lot of people, kind of wish I had spent the extra at the time, which would have been maybe a grand but its kind of more of me just knowing there is one higher, then I take it out and remember its a 1200 ish kilo car that has around 300 bhp (Collins say 310/320 for CP4)
Got it back last week after 5 weeks or so as lent it to my son and had his 2005 Merc CLK, which is actually quite nice to waft round in but is pretty slow being a 220 CDI and more than a bit of a boat but for less than a turbo upgrade at £2100 its been great, all its needed is a window switch and we (well my son and my dad) changed the thermostat yesterday so now it gets up to operating temp.
The S280 is usually the best "overall" turbo as so many recommend it. Yes, I've heard without injectors it'll be around 320, 330ish. With Injectors you can push to around 360, 370. To be honest, I agree with you, I don't think something like an ST really needs 370bhp, plus at that power you are playing engine roulette. Having said that, there are STs that have broken the 400bhp barrier with unopened blocks and some have been fine, but again, I'd rather stick with around 330bhp because I think that's where the car would shine. This saves the cost of the injectors, not seen any power figures but would expect it to be around 320, and then it keeps the cost down and gives you more scope going forward where I have the 270 and that's at its limit pretty much. Think after that it would be around £1300 I guess to go full CP5.
I spoke to Dave Boyce the other day and to go from CP4 to CP5, i.e. my current setup to a 280 with injectors it would be around £2500 which, though I have the cash there, just doesn't seem like a good return for another 30 or so bhp which if I am honest the car doesn't need, its just me wondering what if. Don't want to put even more money into the car, maybe a few quid on bits and pieces but not another £2500.
Dont think many go CP4, seems to be 280 or nothing for a lot of people, kind of wish I had spent the extra at the time, which would have been maybe a grand but its kind of more of me just knowing there is one higher, then I take it out and remember its a 1200 ish kilo car that has around 300 bhp (Collins say 310/320 for CP4)
Got it back last week after 5 weeks or so as lent it to my son and had his 2005 Merc CLK, which is actually quite nice to waft round in but is pretty slow being a 220 CDI and more than a bit of a boat but for less than a turbo upgrade at £2100 its been great, all its needed is a window switch and we (well my son and my dad) changed the thermostat yesterday so now it gets up to operating temp.
I've been very quiet on here for a while so sorry about that if anyone actually likes reading the crap that I put online
I've been having a few test-drives in other cars because I've lost a bit of motivation with the ST. Nothing against the car I just feel like there's a lot of money to spend to get it to where I want and that could take a while, whereas I could save the money and put into another car.
So a few months back I test drove a MK7 Golf R
My thoughts :
Very capable, good-looking, great interior and probably an amazing daily driver. Despite this, very dull for a supposed 370bhp car, felt on pace with the ST if I'm honest and was absolutely no drama to it at all. Overall, a very dissapointing car - very boring.
I then test-drove an M140i
My thoughts:
So much faster than the golf (even though the golf apparently was 370bhp and the 140i was standard). Engine dominated the experience, gearbox was awesome and was just a very nice place to be.
Obviously won't be the best-handling car in the world and above all else, quite ugly in comparison to the golf but I can't see why anyone would buy the golf over a 140.
Then about 2 weeks ago I went out in a 560bhp M4
My thoughts:
Absolutely insane, sideways most of the time, great sound and you really feel like you're in something special.
The car was £25,000 which I thought was a fair price considering the milage. Brakes felt good from passenger side and is a real head-turner.
Then I drove a standard M4 today and overall very good car, would be a very nice daily driver but not "fun" in comparison to my ST. It feels very big on the road and I even felt that when I went out in the tuned M4. But yeah, I really think the M4 needs at least a map to get the most from it. Have to say, the B58 felt just as fast at legal speeds because the M4 seemed to gain it's momentum after 80mph, doubt it was traction related because I wasn't burying the throttle nor was it wet out today. Above all else, the M4 would cost a lot more to maintain over an M140/M240.
So overall the Golf is completely out of the question although it was my girlfriend's favourite out of the 3 cars. Yes it's a nice car but that's the highest compliment I could give that car. The M4(s) very capable, proper driver's cars but quite pricey. So overall for the amount of car you get and arguably a better engine the M140 was my favourite of the lot but the 140 felt just as fast, would cost less to run and the B58 can go very far for not a lot of money. On a 140i a simple map takes the car beyond 400bhp and if you put an exhaust on, intercooler as well as an intake you'll be looking at 480bhp ish. Most hybrid turbos are running around 550-700bhp on these engines and they very very rarely go wrong.
So these are my thoughts on those cars, I've obviously still got the ST but it's on a bit of a back burner for now until I get odd jobs around the house sorted and get me a higher paying job thanks guys
I've been having a few test-drives in other cars because I've lost a bit of motivation with the ST. Nothing against the car I just feel like there's a lot of money to spend to get it to where I want and that could take a while, whereas I could save the money and put into another car.
So a few months back I test drove a MK7 Golf R
My thoughts :
Very capable, good-looking, great interior and probably an amazing daily driver. Despite this, very dull for a supposed 370bhp car, felt on pace with the ST if I'm honest and was absolutely no drama to it at all. Overall, a very dissapointing car - very boring.
I then test-drove an M140i
My thoughts:
So much faster than the golf (even though the golf apparently was 370bhp and the 140i was standard). Engine dominated the experience, gearbox was awesome and was just a very nice place to be.
Obviously won't be the best-handling car in the world and above all else, quite ugly in comparison to the golf but I can't see why anyone would buy the golf over a 140.
Then about 2 weeks ago I went out in a 560bhp M4
My thoughts:
Absolutely insane, sideways most of the time, great sound and you really feel like you're in something special.
The car was £25,000 which I thought was a fair price considering the milage. Brakes felt good from passenger side and is a real head-turner.
Then I drove a standard M4 today and overall very good car, would be a very nice daily driver but not "fun" in comparison to my ST. It feels very big on the road and I even felt that when I went out in the tuned M4. But yeah, I really think the M4 needs at least a map to get the most from it. Have to say, the B58 felt just as fast at legal speeds because the M4 seemed to gain it's momentum after 80mph, doubt it was traction related because I wasn't burying the throttle nor was it wet out today. Above all else, the M4 would cost a lot more to maintain over an M140/M240.
So overall the Golf is completely out of the question although it was my girlfriend's favourite out of the 3 cars. Yes it's a nice car but that's the highest compliment I could give that car. The M4(s) very capable, proper driver's cars but quite pricey. So overall for the amount of car you get and arguably a better engine the M140 was my favourite of the lot but the 140 felt just as fast, would cost less to run and the B58 can go very far for not a lot of money. On a 140i a simple map takes the car beyond 400bhp and if you put an exhaust on, intercooler as well as an intake you'll be looking at 480bhp ish. Most hybrid turbos are running around 550-700bhp on these engines and they very very rarely go wrong.
So these are my thoughts on those cars, I've obviously still got the ST but it's on a bit of a back burner for now until I get odd jobs around the house sorted and get me a higher paying job
thanks guys ScoobyChris said:
It’s funny- I have an m140 and drove an ST with the view that maybe we could downsize to a single fun car. i wanted to love it but I found the ride pretty crashy (comparing to dynamic dampers) and the car woefully slow. Entertainment system is a step up though it has to be said!
Maybe it could be modded to more acceptable levels, but that defeats the point of replacing something that is already there so I will stick with what I have.
Chris
Yeah the STs engine is definitely not the best thing in the world. I'd only owned my previous Mk6 Diesel Fiesta for about a year so getting into a MK7 ST at 20 years old felt rapid but I very soon got used to the power. I then got the map done but got used to that very quickly too. Obviously going out in the 140 feels much much faster than a stage 2 ST, would still be faster than a majority of stage 3 STs too. But in all honesty guys, from memory the M140 doesn't feel far off the pace of an M4 I'll be totally honest. Maybe it could be modded to more acceptable levels, but that defeats the point of replacing something that is already there so I will stick with what I have.
Chris
I don't really mind the ride in the ST, yeah sometimes you go over a slight bump in the road or an unavoidable pot hole and you're thinking Jesus bloody Christ why is it so crashy but you can forgive it for it's ride when you get to a B road. Yes, in a perfect world it would have adjustable dampers and a "comfort mode" but at the end of the day, it's just a fiesta and it would probably go against the point of the ST. It's a small, hot hatch and it's not ashamed to admit it. I still hasten to add that the ST rides like a Rolls Royce Phantom in comparison to my Diesel Zetec S.
fiesta_STage3 said:
been interesting reading this thread. i’ve (also) got an X48R with various bits, that i drive as a daily. my first ever modified car.
You enjoying it? How you finding the X48? I know it's a relatively new hybrid so doubt it's sold as vastly as the X47 has.I know power isn't the be all end all in these cars but so many X47R powered cars read well lower than what Pumaspeed advertised. I guess it's down to what mods you've put on but some barely cracking 300bhp when it's a "340bhp proven turbo" is a bit misleading.
I digress, hopefully the X48R is a stronger contender against the likes of the Rt330, S280 and the much less common BB-04.
WCZ said:
several, mainly young people but a couple of smack heads too
Not nice I bet. To my knowledge I haven't had any attempted burglaries. But again that hasn't really "put me off" of the car. I've been brought up to realise if someone really wants your car they'll take it. I'd rather them take it than a) attempt to take it but fail and just leave me with a car that's been vandalised or b) breaking into my house to try and get the keys. At the end of the day, it's just a car and it's insured. Sure it's definitely not pleasant and it's a pain in the arse if it happens but it's one of those unfortunate things in life that happens and we can't do much about it. Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff