BMW E39 M5 Touring build
Discussion
Court_S said:
That is stunning; fair play for getting it ready in time. Looks like a cracking collection of M5’s including that Dakar yellow one which is pretty rare.
I’m watching an old Wheeler Dealers where he buys an E39 M5 for £4K. How things have changed!
Times have indeed changed! I paid £6400 for my rusty crash damaged donor last Autumn and even then that was considered a good deal!I’m watching an old Wheeler Dealers where he buys an E39 M5 for £4K. How things have changed!
Even the last six months has seen a sharp rise in values of them.
BSSBMW said:
Court_S said:
That is stunning; fair play for getting it ready in time. Looks like a cracking collection of M5’s including that Dakar yellow one which is pretty rare.
I’m watching an old Wheeler Dealers where he buys an E39 M5 for £4K. How things have changed!
Times have indeed changed! I paid £6400 for my rusty crash damaged donor last Autumn and even then that was considered a good deal!I’m watching an old Wheeler Dealers where he buys an E39 M5 for £4K. How things have changed!
Even the last six months has seen a sharp rise in values of them.
A fantastic build Barry, looked epic at Caffeine and Machine despite your rush to get it ready in time. I think the decision to try and make it as BMW would have done was exactly the right one.
The strange thing about M5 estates is that everyone seems to want one; except that, when new, they didn't sell well at all.
The E34 was only made in LHD and they made just 891 of them.
The E61 wasn't much better, 222 RHD and 803 LHD cars.
For a mainstream manufacturer those are tiny numbers and if you look at the E61 RHD cars a significant chunk (25%+) were dealer/press demonstrators all supplied at, or soon after, launch. The build number fell dramatically for each year of production, 191 in 2006/7, 26 in 2008, 4 in 2009 and just 1 in 2010.
To me the E39 M5 makes much more sense as a Touring than either the E34 or E61, the S62 engine is exactly what you want in an estate, especially if you add a tow bar. Nether the S38 or S85 have the right characteristics, both being high revving and with little torque at low revs. The E61 fuel tank is not what you want in a fast estate either at just 70 litres, even the E34 had a 90 litre tank.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that BMW have said that they will never make another M5 Touring, although they are now making the M3 Touring, they prefer to produce the X5/6M to fill that perceived niche, except for me they miss the point entirely.
So greatest respect to you, for making the car that BMW never had the conviction to release themselves. The E39 M5 is the consummate all rounder, but an E39 M5 Touring is on another level.
The strange thing about M5 estates is that everyone seems to want one; except that, when new, they didn't sell well at all.
The E34 was only made in LHD and they made just 891 of them.
The E61 wasn't much better, 222 RHD and 803 LHD cars.
For a mainstream manufacturer those are tiny numbers and if you look at the E61 RHD cars a significant chunk (25%+) were dealer/press demonstrators all supplied at, or soon after, launch. The build number fell dramatically for each year of production, 191 in 2006/7, 26 in 2008, 4 in 2009 and just 1 in 2010.
To me the E39 M5 makes much more sense as a Touring than either the E34 or E61, the S62 engine is exactly what you want in an estate, especially if you add a tow bar. Nether the S38 or S85 have the right characteristics, both being high revving and with little torque at low revs. The E61 fuel tank is not what you want in a fast estate either at just 70 litres, even the E34 had a 90 litre tank.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that BMW have said that they will never make another M5 Touring, although they are now making the M3 Touring, they prefer to produce the X5/6M to fill that perceived niche, except for me they miss the point entirely.
So greatest respect to you, for making the car that BMW never had the conviction to release themselves. The E39 M5 is the consummate all rounder, but an E39 M5 Touring is on another level.
Reading this really makes me regret not buying an E39 M5 about 7 years ago for 8k. Wasn't perfect, but it was reasonable enough to use as a summer daily. Just couldn't make the man maths work at the time. Mind you a year before that I was offered a special edition Evo V for 4k and didn't go for that either. Both running and driving cars with MOT. Just didn't know the prices were going to go so crazy! In either case I probably would have had to sell my E34 540i 6 speed to pay for them...
I wasn't able to get to the M5 day, but it looks fantastic in the pictures, and a superbly executed build.
I wasn't able to get to the M5 day, but it looks fantastic in the pictures, and a superbly executed build.
RichardM5 said:
A fantastic build Barry, looked epic at Caffeine and Machine despite your rush to get it ready in time. I think the decision to try and make it as BMW would have done was exactly the right one.
The strange thing about M5 estates is that everyone seems to want one; except that, when new, they didn't sell well at all.
The E34 was only made in LHD and they made just 891 of them.
The E61 wasn't much better, 222 RHD and 803 LHD cars.
For a mainstream manufacturer those are tiny numbers and if you look at the E61 RHD cars a significant chunk (25%+) were dealer/press demonstrators all supplied at, or soon after, launch. The build number fell dramatically for each year of production, 191 in 2006/7, 26 in 2008, 4 in 2009 and just 1 in 2010.
To me the E39 M5 makes much more sense as a Touring than either the E34 or E61, the S62 engine is exactly what you want in an estate, especially if you add a tow bar. Nether the S38 or S85 have the right characteristics, both being high revving and with little torque at low revs. The E61 fuel tank is not what you want in a fast estate either at just 70 litres, even the E34 had a 90 litre tank.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that BMW have said that they will never make another M5 Touring, although they are now making the M3 Touring, they prefer to produce the X5/6M to fill that perceived niche, except for me they miss the point entirely.
So greatest respect to you, for making the car that BMW never had the conviction to release themselves. The E39 M5 is the consummate all rounder, but an E39 M5 Touring is on another level.
Thanks Richard, high praise as I know you have an eye for detail!The strange thing about M5 estates is that everyone seems to want one; except that, when new, they didn't sell well at all.
The E34 was only made in LHD and they made just 891 of them.
The E61 wasn't much better, 222 RHD and 803 LHD cars.
For a mainstream manufacturer those are tiny numbers and if you look at the E61 RHD cars a significant chunk (25%+) were dealer/press demonstrators all supplied at, or soon after, launch. The build number fell dramatically for each year of production, 191 in 2006/7, 26 in 2008, 4 in 2009 and just 1 in 2010.
To me the E39 M5 makes much more sense as a Touring than either the E34 or E61, the S62 engine is exactly what you want in an estate, especially if you add a tow bar. Nether the S38 or S85 have the right characteristics, both being high revving and with little torque at low revs. The E61 fuel tank is not what you want in a fast estate either at just 70 litres, even the E34 had a 90 litre tank.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that BMW have said that they will never make another M5 Touring, although they are now making the M3 Touring, they prefer to produce the X5/6M to fill that perceived niche, except for me they miss the point entirely.
So greatest respect to you, for making the car that BMW never had the conviction to release themselves. The E39 M5 is the consummate all rounder, but an E39 M5 Touring is on another level.
An interesting insight into the dwindle sales of `E61 M5' over their production span and you a bang on in that some many people post and say they would love more M power tourings but the people that actually buy them new clearly feel differently.
Interesting to mention the tow bar as its something I want to add one to the touring. The detachable one was available on the M5 as well so its just a case of finding the parts.
RichardM5 said:
A fantastic build Barry, looked epic at Caffeine and Machine despite your rush to get it ready in time. I think the decision to try and make it as BMW would have done was exactly the right one.
The strange thing about M5 estates is that everyone seems to want one; except that, when new, they didn't sell well at all.
The E34 was only made in LHD and they made just 891 of them.
The E61 wasn't much better, 222 RHD and 803 LHD cars.
For a mainstream manufacturer those are tiny numbers and if you look at the E61 RHD cars a significant chunk (25%+) were dealer/press demonstrators all supplied at, or soon after, launch. The build number fell dramatically for each year of production, 191 in 2006/7, 26 in 2008, 4 in 2009 and just 1 in 2010.
To me the E39 M5 makes much more sense as a Touring than either the E34 or E61, the S62 engine is exactly what you want in an estate, especially if you add a tow bar. Nether the S38 or S85 have the right characteristics, both being high revving and with little torque at low revs. The E61 fuel tank is not what you want in a fast estate either at just 70 litres, even the E34 had a 90 litre tank.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that BMW have said that they will never make another M5 Touring, although they are now making the M3 Touring, they prefer to produce the X5/6M to fill that perceived niche, except for me they miss the point entirely.
So greatest respect to you, for making the car that BMW never had the conviction to release themselves. The E39 M5 is the consummate all rounder, but an E39 M5 Touring is on another level.
I think your highlighting of the engines torque characteristics is spot on - both the E34 and E60/61 M5 engines aren't just lacking torque at low revs compared to the Alpina Touring models, but all over; the S38 makes 295lb-ft in the E34 compared to 350+ of the E34 B10 4.6, and the S85 just 384lb-ft compared to 530+ in the B5 Touring. The strange thing about M5 estates is that everyone seems to want one; except that, when new, they didn't sell well at all.
The E34 was only made in LHD and they made just 891 of them.
The E61 wasn't much better, 222 RHD and 803 LHD cars.
For a mainstream manufacturer those are tiny numbers and if you look at the E61 RHD cars a significant chunk (25%+) were dealer/press demonstrators all supplied at, or soon after, launch. The build number fell dramatically for each year of production, 191 in 2006/7, 26 in 2008, 4 in 2009 and just 1 in 2010.
To me the E39 M5 makes much more sense as a Touring than either the E34 or E61, the S62 engine is exactly what you want in an estate, especially if you add a tow bar. Nether the S38 or S85 have the right characteristics, both being high revving and with little torque at low revs. The E61 fuel tank is not what you want in a fast estate either at just 70 litres, even the E34 had a 90 litre tank.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that BMW have said that they will never make another M5 Touring, although they are now making the M3 Touring, they prefer to produce the X5/6M to fill that perceived niche, except for me they miss the point entirely.
So greatest respect to you, for making the car that BMW never had the conviction to release themselves. The E39 M5 is the consummate all rounder, but an E39 M5 Touring is on another level.
Those very significant deficiencies, whilst hidden well in high revving almost race engines just aren't desirable in a genuine all round road car - the E39 5.0 S62 makes its 380lb-ft almost identically to the 4.8 M62 in the E39 B10 V8S Alpina and just a few more than B10 V8 4.6 engine.
The problem with Alpina is that they just aren't able to offer new car discounts like BMW can with their genuine ///M cars, so the price point always makes them a true connoisseur/lunatics* choice and subsequently rarer still than the BMW ///M cars.
*Delete according to mental health assessment or bonkers budgetary availability.
Great car OP, with a great quality build.
McGee_22 said:
I think your highlighting of the engines torque characteristics is spot on - both the E34 and E60/61 M5 engines aren't just lacking torque at low revs compared to the Alpina Touring models, but all over; the S38 makes 295lb-ft in the E34 compared to 350+ of the E34 B10 4.6, and the S85 just 384lb-ft compared to 530+ in the B5 Touring.
Those very significant deficiencies, whilst hidden well in high revving almost race engines just aren't desirable in a genuine all round road car - the E39 5.0 S62 makes its 380lb-ft almost identically to the 4.8 M62 in the E39 B10 V8S Alpina and just a few more than B10 V8 4.6 engine.
The problem with Alpina is that they just aren't able to offer new car discounts like BMW can with their genuine ///M cars, so the price point always makes them a true connoisseur/lunatics* choice and subsequently rarer still than the BMW ///M cars.
*Delete according to mental health assessment or bonkers budgetary availability.
Great car OP, with a great quality build.
Very valid points RE the Alpina vs M power cars even to the current day with G2x B3 using the G8x M3/4's S58 engine but with smaller turbos with the result in slightly less power but a jump in low down torque.Those very significant deficiencies, whilst hidden well in high revving almost race engines just aren't desirable in a genuine all round road car - the E39 5.0 S62 makes its 380lb-ft almost identically to the 4.8 M62 in the E39 B10 V8S Alpina and just a few more than B10 V8 4.6 engine.
The problem with Alpina is that they just aren't able to offer new car discounts like BMW can with their genuine ///M cars, so the price point always makes them a true connoisseur/lunatics* choice and subsequently rarer still than the BMW ///M cars.
*Delete according to mental health assessment or bonkers budgetary availability.
Great car OP, with a great quality build.
A G21 B3 touring is a highly likely candidate replacement for my F82 M4.
Starting to work through the snag list and quite an important one with the weather we are having at the moment is the AC or lack of. When it was in use and before the 540i was pulled apart the AC was working fine so despite my usual modus operandi of replacing everything with new, the condenser was left to be reused but a new receiver drier was fitted after the system was exposed to atmosphere during the conversion.
The moment the AC machine was attached to the car it was apparent there was a leak from the condenser so new one was ordered up last week and it became apparent when the old one was removed that it was clearly past its best! With that fitted up the system gassed up its now blowing ice cold as it should be.
A lucky forum find was a pair of genuine BMW accessory E39 touring specific roof rails.
Another lucky find on ebay was a set of four genuine BMW accessory bike racks which were attached to a pair of E39/E46 saloon roof rails which I swapped over to the touring rails.
All in aid of pressing the wagon into family use!
Just don't forget the bikes are on the roof.. We went to walk the dog at the local country park a few weeks ago and on arrival we were met with a very heavily damaged "max height" barrier, a very badly damaged child's bike still attached to the bike carrier, then a few metres further on, a BMW with one roof bar ripped off and badly damaged..
This was being looked over by a clearly very angry with himself dad and a very very upset child, who clearly wasn't going to be riding round the country park on his bike as planned...
Stunning conversion though and as others have said, the attention to detail is amazing..
This was being looked over by a clearly very angry with himself dad and a very very upset child, who clearly wasn't going to be riding round the country park on his bike as planned...
Stunning conversion though and as others have said, the attention to detail is amazing..
k. 
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