mk4 golf GTTDi

[rantrantrant]

rantrantrant said:

when traction is gained mid slide? don't pretend like you know things...no body was talking about extreme stretch, it came up after seeing the mk4 before it went all "I'm old so I'm right" or "I think I'm old and I think I'm right"

Edited by rantrantrant on Monday 7th September 18:08

jimmyb said:

matty_doh said:

jimmyb said:

the sidewall is under very little pressure unlike in normal driving conditions.

Under normal driving load in a corner the tyre has full contact with the road surface meaning when the car leans through the corner the tyre sidewall will flex heavily under the load of the car. In drift conditions the tyre has very little grip on the road surface and is in effect "floating" on the road surface meaning there will be very little impact on the amount of flex required on the tyre sidewall.

Another way to look at it would be to imagine your shoe as a tyre. Imagine standing on a piece of tarmac and trying to push your foot away from you using your ankle you will find your foot will go nowhere whereas your ankle will take strain and have to flex depending on how much force you use. Now try the same model whilst standing on ice and you will find it much easier if not impossible to avoid your foot sliding sideways.

Edited by jimmyb on Monday 7th September 18:10

Yeah in slippy slide land.. They do stop skidding mate. Don't pretend

[jimmyb]

Based on your childish barely literate response instead of simply having a reasonable discussion about the issue i have to assume i do know more than you.

[E36]

Rantrantrant; Have you joined specifically to tell us that we're wrong?

ETA: I'm not old.

Edited by E36 on Monday 7th September 19:34

[OnTheOverrun]

rantrantrant said:

I just want to point out, and obviously some of you folks that are more set in your ways than others don't know, the new sport of drifting (not so new now) has used very low cars, wide rims and stretched tyres from the beginning. Surely if you know anything about the sport you would know that it is one of the roughest motor sports in terms of tyres and suspension. I have never seen a tyre come off a rim unless it was burnt through so IMO and a whole community of others, there is nothing wrong with stretching tyres, within reason

Would the whole sport be based around something so unsafe??? I think not.

Personal preference is another matter, if you don't like it you don't like it...but don't go spouting off about something you are obviously stuck in the dark ages about

Thank You!

Edited by rantrantrant on Monday 7th September 15:39

Two things you fail to point out:

1) Drifters modify their cars to grip less and make drifting easier. This is not appropriate on a road car.

2) Drifting is a track sport, not a road based activity.

All motor sport is based on varying degrees of 'unsafe' compared to raod driving. That is why you have to have a roll cage, a helmet, nomex pants and an ambulance waiting at the side of the track.

There is nothing wrong with stretched tyres on a track, there is everything wrong with fitting tyres outside the safe size range for your rims on a road car and then finding out you aren't insured when your fashion first, grip second car ends up in a ditch, or worse, the back of my car.

The only people from the dark ages spouting here are people like you who know nothing of the legalities or engineering compromises of this fashion, but think it looks cool and so support it.

[rantrantrant]

This is the first time I have looked at these forums, before long I got so sick of seeing Jimmyp's stupid comments everytime there is a euro styled car and had to say something.

I saw people telling him 'this is why the site has a bad name' and I can see why...fking muppet, if you don't like a car, click on the next thread instead of cluttering up peoples build threads with your petty comments. (although I've done that now, sorry!)

Yes Drifting is offically a track sport, but it started down the road
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiYqY2MNM54

1. We aren't talking about huge/unsafe/out of size range stretch. Which ARE legal by the way
2. I am an engineer, it just sounds like you've got a gay safety factor going on about your life.
3. I don't have stretched tyres myself either so I don't know about this fashion thing your trying to impose on me...just admit you are wrong, or shut the fk up

Edited by rantrantrant on Monday 7th September 20:10

[jimmyb]

E36 said:

Rantrantrant; Have you joined specifically to tell us that we're wrong?

ETA: I'm not old.

Edited by E36 on Monday 7th September 19:34

+1

[RXED]

Just a quick question, has anyone actually got any proof that a stretch is dangerous? Links to evidence that an accident occured due to a stretched tyre failing?? Alot of people are asking for proof that they are safe but have no evidence to back themselves up (It comes down to their opinion and thats all). I have many friends who run stretch without any proplems. Some of them have driven with this mod for many many years! They are not just lucky shirly??



Edit: I like the golf, looks clean. sorry this thread has come to this!!

Edited by RXED on Monday 7th September 20:46

[OnTheOverrun]

rantrantrant said:

1. We aren't talking about huge/unsafe/out of size range stretch. Which ARE legal by the way

Glad to hear it. Perhaps you'd be good enough to tell us how much of a stretch is legal and what constitutes an illegal stretch as you claim to know the legalities of it.

rantrantrant said:

2. I am an engineer, it just sounds like you've got a gay safety factor going on about your life.

Another engineer who likes stretched tyres? How convenient. May I ask what your engineering speciality is? If you want to call not liking people sacrificing safety and performance for fashion gay, then feel free. To me sacrificing the drive quality for fashion is the gay choice, but everyone to his own.

rantrantrant said:

3. I don't have stretched tyres myself either so I don't know about this fashion thing your trying to impose on me...just admit you are wrong, or shut the fk up

So far all you have done is flap your lips. I doubt that will change in your future posts.

[jimmyb]

RXED no proof never have claimed to have any. It seems to be a bit of a grey area which is why questions were asked and comments were made.

To my mind from what i know of tyres and how they work it seems like a bad idea as in theory by stretching tyres there is no flex left in the sidewall. Meaning under heavy cornering it will be pulling at the rim directly unlike with correctly fitted tyres which have the sidewall flex to alleviate that problem to a large extent.

I could be wrong i could be right who knows? It appears no testing of this has actually been done by anyone and tyre companies do not from what i understand recommend stretching tyres but then they have'nt tested whether its safe or not.

In my mind it also seems a case of form over function which each person is entitled to but in my view fitting tyres which potentially compromise the safety of a car and definitely compromise the ride is foolish. If someone was to do a definitive safety test and state they are safe fine fair dos on the safety front however.

I dont quite get the look but thats modders for you.

[OnTheOverrun]

RXED said:

Just a quick question, has anyone actually got any proof that a stretch is dangerous? Links to evidence that an accident occured due to a stretched tyre failing?? Alot of people are asking for proof that they are safe but have no evidence to back themselves up (It comes down to their opinion and thats all). I have many friends who run stretch without any proplems. Some of them have driven with this mod for many many years! They are not just lucky shirly??



Edit: I like the golf, looks clean. sorry this thread has come to this!!

Edited by RXED on Monday 7th September 20:46

The legal requirements:

1.Regarding wheel width, they must not protrude more than 30mm beyond the wheel arches. (Council Directive 78/549/EEC)

2.Regarding the fitting of the tyre "Each tyre fitted to the vehicle shall be of a nominal size appropriate to the wheel to which it is fitted." Sec16(4 The Motor Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2001'. The fact that the fit was outside manufacturers recommendations should be very persuasive to convince a court that the tyre was not fitted in a manner suitable to qualify it as 'approved'.

3.Section 40A RTA 1988 states "A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when...the condition of the motor vehicle...or of its accessories or equipment...is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person." Evidence to support this offence would include measurements of your wheel and tyre, and statements from the manufacturer or a tyre expert, indicating the potential risk of fitting outside their recommended parameters, namely, overheating, grip loss, unpredictable performance and behaviour etc etc.

4.If your vehicle was involved in a collision, especially one involving injury, where the cause led to the loss of control of your vehicle, dangerous driving may be considered, especially strengthened by Sec 2A(2) where "A person is also to be regarded as driving dangerously for the purposes of section 1 and 2 above if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous."

What they tyre manufacturers say:

Dunlop
"RIM WIDTH
Correct rim width ensures flex at the designed flex point in a tire sidewall for optimum tire performance.
If the rim is too wide, the flex point moves towards the rim area, causing heat buildup in the lower sidewall, which reduces tire life and could result in failure. Either too narrow or too wide of a rim can result in uneven tread/pavement contact pressure causing uneven wear and potentially reduced traction, or increased vulnerability to bead dis-lodgement. "

Toyo
"Serious personal injury or death can result from failure to select the proper tire and rim: Tire MUST match the width and diameter requirements of the rim. When mounting truck type radial tires use only wheels approved for radial tires.

Yokohama
Each Yokohama tire has a specific rim width range on which the tire can be mounted. Failure to follow rim width recommendations may result in poor tire performance or possible wheel and/or tire failure.

However, I'm sure you know better than these ill-informed old fools.

[RXED]

'To my mind from what i know of tyres and how they work it seems like a bad idea as in theory by stretching tyres there is no flex left in the sidewall. Meaning under heavy cornering it will be pulling at the rim directly unlike with correctly fitted tyres which have the sidewall flex to alleviate that problem to a large extent.'



Excuse my ignorance, but would this not also be the case on very low profile tyres? like those fitted to sports cars? A smaller side wall creating less sidewall movement and less tyre flex?

Edited by RXED on Monday 7th September 21:23

[RXED]

OnTheOverRun, i didnt mention legal details. i asked for proof that they are dangerous? Proof of an accident directly caused by it. Whether they are legal or not!

[OnTheOverrun]

RXED said:

To my mind from what i know of tyres and how they work it seems like a bad idea as in theory by stretching tyres there is no flex left in the sidewall. Meaning under heavy cornering it will be pulling at the rim directly unlike with correctly fitted tyres which have the sidewall flex to alleviate that problem to a large extent.



Excuse my ignorance, but would this not also be the case on very low profile tyres? like those fitted to sports cars? A smaller side wall creating less sidewall movement and less tyre flex?

I don't think it's the depth from tarmac to rim that is the issue. It's that tyres are designed with the sidewalls working vertically, not at an unreasonable angle, hence the reason you need rims of a certain width range for tyres of a certain width.

I've no problem with a mild stretch, apart from not seeing the point of degrading performance for fashion, it's when people fit tyres on rims outside those they were designed for and in the process reducing the ability of the tyre to grip and disipate heat whilst rendering their insurance invalid.

[OnTheOverrun]

RXED said:

OnTheOverRun, i didnt mention legal details. i asked for proof that they are dangerous? Proof of an accident directly caused by it. Whether they are legal or not!

This is what happens when a Toyo T1R is used on a rim 2" wider than recommended by Toyo at continuous high speed:



Sidewall flex caused the sidewall to overheat and delaminate.

[RXED]

That does indeed look very nasty! But that happened on a track?? Anything road related? This is a genuine interest and by no means intended to wind anyone up! I would just like to know.


Is that pic from Toyo themselves?

Edited by RXED on Monday 7th September 21:41

[OnTheOverrun]

RXED said:

That does indeed look very nasty! But that happened on a track?? Anything road related? This is a genuine interest and by no means intended to wind anyone up! I would just like to know.


Is that pic from Toyo themselves?

Edited by RXED on Monday 7th September 21:41

No, it happened on a Dutch motorway.

[rantrantrant]

Overrun, while your on your high horse you better go tell your mates down at the MOT station to stop passing people with stretched tyres if that post means anything. Also some warnings are a little exaggerated

Eg:
"Fragile. Do not drop." -- Posted on a Boeing 757

[RXED]

Although thats only one case, fair enough. Im suprised no tyre manufactures or independant companies have run tests or shown anything to the public.

[RXED]

rantrantrant said:

Overrun, while your on your high horse you better go tell your mates down at the MOT station to stop passing people with stretched tyres if that post means anything. Also some warnings are a little exaggerated

Eg:
"Fragile. Do not drop." -- Posted on a Boeing 757

just when things were getting sensible again.......

Rant, dont lower yourself or PH.

[rantrantrant]

Back to it.. Sweet motor mate, love the pic 2nd from the bottom, is that just with contrast adjusted?