Jaguar F-Pace Non Runner
Discussion
Removing the engine was much quicker the second time around, now I know all the bolt sizes and the best way to do things. I did have a bit of an issue when it came to actually pulling it out, the engine got snagged as I lifted it, ended up taking some of the weight of the car as well as the engine. The mounting point for the lifting hook snapped off the block.
IMG_20230507_171445077
IMG_20230507_171450920_HDR
It could have been worse, engine didn't drop far and no damage. It's a bit frustrating that the torque converter got pulled off the gearbox slightly and leaked about a litre of oil into my pit. One of the reasons I decided to take the engine out rather than remove the gearbox for access to the chains was so I didn't need to mess about filling the gearbox oil up (it's going to need to have the level measured at a certain temperature after a certain process of shifting gears)
I made a bit of a mess.
IMG_20230507_175939754
IMG_20230507_175957362
It's out, ready for the chains in the morning, shouldn't take long to do it and put it back in the car.
IMG_20230507_180006383_HDR
IMG_20230507_171445077IMG_20230507_171450920_HDRIt could have been worse, engine didn't drop far and no damage. It's a bit frustrating that the torque converter got pulled off the gearbox slightly and leaked about a litre of oil into my pit. One of the reasons I decided to take the engine out rather than remove the gearbox for access to the chains was so I didn't need to mess about filling the gearbox oil up (it's going to need to have the level measured at a certain temperature after a certain process of shifting gears)
I made a bit of a mess.
IMG_20230507_175939754IMG_20230507_175957362It's out, ready for the chains in the morning, shouldn't take long to do it and put it back in the car.
IMG_20230507_180006383_HDREscy said:
Hell Escy this car loves a fight ! All the best.I-am-the-reverend said:
OK.
My Mrs had a 2007 A4 Convertible.
At eight years old it needed new front wings. It went through sensors, it leaked like a fked fridge.
That generation of Audis were appallingly bad. They were miserable to drive, suffered poor component quality and for some reason Audi were simply incapable of making paint stick to the metal. They could eat suspension components like there was no tomorrow as well. It was extremely common that they had crumbling wheel arches at a young age. If they didn't have a German badge on the front they'd have been laughed out of the UK market. The UK is full of idiots though and people would rather pay 50% more for a crap car made in Germany than to just buy a Mondeo which was objectively better built, so people inexplicably kept buying them and they still exist as a brand now however little they deserve to.My Mrs had a 2007 A4 Convertible.
At eight years old it needed new front wings. It went through sensors, it leaked like a f
ked fridge. Far, far better cars earned bad reputations for far, far fewer crimes than that generation of Audi is guilty of.
I suppose they made a reassuring thunk when closing the door, and that was around the time when singularly unqualified journalists used to use that as a measurement of engineering and reliability.
jamieduff1981 said:
That generation of Audis were appallingly bad. They were miserable to drive, suffered poor component quality and for some reason Audi were simply incapable of making paint stick to the metal. They could eat suspension components like there was no tomorrow as well. It was extremely common that they had crumbling wheel arches at a young age. If they didn't have a German badge on the front they'd have been laughed out of the UK market. The UK is full of idiots though and people would rather pay 50% more for a crap car made in Germany than to just buy a Mondeo which was objectively better built, so people inexplicably kept buying them and they still exist as a brand now however little they deserve to.
Far, far better cars earned bad reputations for far, far fewer crimes than that generation of Audi is guilty of.
I suppose they made a reassuring thunk when closing the door, and that was around the time when singularly unqualified journalists used to use that as a measurement of engineering and reliability.
Agreed. Image over engineering. But to some, that's all that matters. The cars are still pretty crap if you go by warranty claim percentage.Far, far better cars earned bad reputations for far, far fewer crimes than that generation of Audi is guilty of.
I suppose they made a reassuring thunk when closing the door, and that was around the time when singularly unqualified journalists used to use that as a measurement of engineering and reliability.
Maxdecel said:
Escy said:
Hell Escy this car loves a fight ! All the best.Fair play again Escy for getting even more stuck in and not quitting.
Replacing the chains hasn't proved to be the straight forward job I was expecting although this might be a good thing. I removed the inlet cam sprocket to change it over and noticed it wasn't going to fit. The old sprocket had a dowel in it, the new one didn't. I was scratching my nuts wondering what's going on.
IMG_20230508_150701376
Looking at the end of the camshafts, you can see the one on the right (exhaust cam) has a dowel on the end. The inlet cam has a slot in it which looks a bit ropey.
IMG_20230508_161244261_HDR
You can also see on the inlet cam, at the 10 o'clock position there is a mark which looks like the broken original dowel.
IMG_20230508_161251480
You can see the indent of this dowel on the sprocket, just to the right of the dowel.
received_557817946422543
I couldn't find any pictures or videos showing the end of the camshafts to compare to, I messaged QP Online LTD, a JLR specialist someone mentioned earlier in the thread. I've got to give them a shout out, I've thrown a few questions their way and they always reply and are helpful. I've not spent any money with them. https://www.facebook.com/qponlineltd/?locale=en_GB
They confirmed what I was thinking, this is a homebrew modification. I'm assuming the last guy didn't have the right tools to hold the cams and broke the previous dowel. The dowel itself is nicely fitted, the slot in the camshaft looks a bit home brew but it's actually a perfect fit. As far as bodges go it's a decent effort.
Here's the bit I don't understand, you can see in the second photo the cams are held in position with a tool so they are in the right place. There's flats on the sides, the inlet cam is a bit rounded and chewed up, someone has had a spanner on it probably but the position it's held in is right. The home brew dowel is fitted in the same position on the sprocket as the hole on the new sprocket so they line up. If I place the new sprocket to line up with the broken dowel on the camshaft, the coloured chain links won't line up. They do line up with the home brew sprocket fitted. The only thing I can come up with to explain this away is the section of the camshaft that lines up with the tool has shifted. I think everything on the cam, including the lobes are interference fit rather than machined from one piece so it's possible. Maybe a big spanner on the flats of the camshaft and a bar on the bolt holding it in, the flats moved first. I note that to remove the sprocket, you don't hold the cam by these flats, there is another tool with pins that slides into the holes on the sprockets to hold it.
The plastic chain guide that's right after this sprocket had a crack in it already. I guess related to this gear modification either leaving the chain too tight or slack after the gear.
IMG_20230508_165331375
I hadn't removed this sprocket the first time around so didn't discover any of this. It's a pretty crazy find, who'd do that rather than just change the camshaft?
Looks like a good example of not investing in the right tools breaking stuff and making a mess of everything.
Since I took the engine out on a pretty rudderless expedition I do think finding this is probably good news. I'm more hopeful of noticing a difference when it goes back together now although I'm still not holding my breath.
IMG_20230508_150701376Looking at the end of the camshafts, you can see the one on the right (exhaust cam) has a dowel on the end. The inlet cam has a slot in it which looks a bit ropey.
IMG_20230508_161244261_HDRYou can also see on the inlet cam, at the 10 o'clock position there is a mark which looks like the broken original dowel.
IMG_20230508_161251480You can see the indent of this dowel on the sprocket, just to the right of the dowel.
received_557817946422543I couldn't find any pictures or videos showing the end of the camshafts to compare to, I messaged QP Online LTD, a JLR specialist someone mentioned earlier in the thread. I've got to give them a shout out, I've thrown a few questions their way and they always reply and are helpful. I've not spent any money with them. https://www.facebook.com/qponlineltd/?locale=en_GB
They confirmed what I was thinking, this is a homebrew modification. I'm assuming the last guy didn't have the right tools to hold the cams and broke the previous dowel. The dowel itself is nicely fitted, the slot in the camshaft looks a bit home brew but it's actually a perfect fit. As far as bodges go it's a decent effort.
Here's the bit I don't understand, you can see in the second photo the cams are held in position with a tool so they are in the right place. There's flats on the sides, the inlet cam is a bit rounded and chewed up, someone has had a spanner on it probably but the position it's held in is right. The home brew dowel is fitted in the same position on the sprocket as the hole on the new sprocket so they line up. If I place the new sprocket to line up with the broken dowel on the camshaft, the coloured chain links won't line up. They do line up with the home brew sprocket fitted. The only thing I can come up with to explain this away is the section of the camshaft that lines up with the tool has shifted. I think everything on the cam, including the lobes are interference fit rather than machined from one piece so it's possible. Maybe a big spanner on the flats of the camshaft and a bar on the bolt holding it in, the flats moved first. I note that to remove the sprocket, you don't hold the cam by these flats, there is another tool with pins that slides into the holes on the sprockets to hold it.
The plastic chain guide that's right after this sprocket had a crack in it already. I guess related to this gear modification either leaving the chain too tight or slack after the gear.
IMG_20230508_165331375I hadn't removed this sprocket the first time around so didn't discover any of this. It's a pretty crazy find, who'd do that rather than just change the camshaft?
Looks like a good example of not investing in the right tools breaking stuff and making a mess of everything.
Since I took the engine out on a pretty rudderless expedition I do think finding this is probably good news. I'm more hopeful of noticing a difference when it goes back together now although I'm still not holding my breath.
Edited by Escy on Monday 8th May 18:05
jamieduff1981 said:
That generation of Audis were appallingly bad. They were miserable to drive, suffered poor component quality and for some reason Audi were simply incapable of making paint stick to the metal. They could eat suspension components like there was no tomorrow as well. It was extremely common that they had crumbling wheel arches at a young age. If they didn't have a German badge on the front they'd have been laughed out of the UK market. The UK is full of idiots though and people would rather pay 50% more for a crap car made in Germany than to just buy a Mondeo which was objectively better built, so people inexplicably kept buying them and they still exist as a brand now however little they deserve to.
Far, far better cars earned bad reputations for far, far fewer crimes than that generation of Audi is guilty of.
I suppose they made a reassuring thunk when closing the door, and that was around the time when singularly unqualified journalists used to use that as a measurement of engineering and reliability.
A garage I knew rated the B7 A4 2.0TDi Auto (multitronic) as the worst used car you could buy. Just a disaster from end to end. Engine, gearbox, suspension, electrics, rust.Far, far better cars earned bad reputations for far, far fewer crimes than that generation of Audi is guilty of.
I suppose they made a reassuring thunk when closing the door, and that was around the time when singularly unqualified journalists used to use that as a measurement of engineering and reliability.
The Mark 5 Golf probably runs it a close second. It was when I saw one on an MOT ramp with the rear outer sill having fallen off on one side - not a plastic cover, the actual sill. Absolute garbage.
Escy said:
Replacing the chains hasn't proved to be the straight forward job I was expecting although this might be a good thing. I removed the inlet cam sprocket to change it over and noticed it wasn't going to fit. The old sprocket had a dowel in it, the new one didn't. I was scratching my nuts wondering what's going on.
Are the sprockets held on with stretch bolts? I know some are, but without dowels, relying on the immense clamping force of the bolt.I wonder if the sprocket on the bodged cam is sitting perfectly flat?
fk me, what a of a previous owner.
Reminds me of a tt I bought an MGF VVC off of, years ago. He proudly stated he'd done a 'proper job' of replacing the head gasket, etc. It was a very good price, and the condition of the car was pretty seductive, but the engine was a little 'off'. Not one (of the three) cams were in time, and the two VVC units were out of sync with the control mechanism.
I sent him an email afterwards with detailed pics, imploring him to never, ever, touch a mechanical thing again.
Fair play for sticking with it. One thing, you need to paint your garage. The walls are filthy and it makes it look depressing. Otherwise, nice
k me, what a of a previous owner.Reminds me of a t
t I bought an MGF VVC off of, years ago. He proudly stated he'd done a 'proper job' of replacing the head gasket, etc. It was a very good price, and the condition of the car was pretty seductive, but the engine was a little 'off'. Not one (of the three) cams were in time, and the two VVC units were out of sync with the control mechanism.I sent him an email afterwards with detailed pics, imploring him to never, ever, touch a mechanical thing again.
Fair play for sticking with it. One thing, you need to paint your garage. The walls are filthy and it makes it look depressing. Otherwise, nice
Escy said:
I don't know if they are stretch bolts but I have new replacement ones. The dowel pin that should be should be there is small so they won't be taking any load. The bolt is taking all the load, dowel is purely for locating the sprockets.
I don't know if you know this but salvage rebuild UK run a YouTube channel, they had a Evoque I think it was. One of the camshaft bolts comes loose, I'm sure the lobes spun on the actual cam its self. Maybe this has done the same and that's where the noise is coming from? jamieduff1981 said:
I-am-the-reverend said:
OK.
My Mrs had a 2007 A4 Convertible.
At eight years old it needed new front wings. It went through sensors, it leaked like a fked fridge.
That generation of Audis were appallingly bad. They were miserable to drive, suffered poor component quality and for some reason Audi were simply incapable of making paint stick to the metal. They could eat suspension components like there was no tomorrow as well. It was extremely common that they had crumbling wheel arches at a young age. If they didn't have a German badge on the front they'd have been laughed out of the UK market. The UK is full of idiots though and people would rather pay 50% more for a crap car made in Germany than to just buy a Mondeo which was objectively better built, so people inexplicably kept buying them and they still exist as a brand now however little they deserve to.My Mrs had a 2007 A4 Convertible.
At eight years old it needed new front wings. It went through sensors, it leaked like a f
ked fridge. Far, far better cars earned bad reputations for far, far fewer crimes than that generation of Audi is guilty of.
I suppose they made a reassuring thunk when closing the door, and that was around the time when singularly unqualified journalists used to use that as a measurement of engineering and reliability.
Mikebentley said:
The previous owner was a real bodger.
I can't argue with that. bgunn said:
fk me, what a of a previous owner.
Reminds me of a tt I bought an MGF VVC off of, years ago. He proudly stated he'd done a 'proper job' of replacing the head gasket, etc. It was a very good price, and the condition of the car was pretty seductive, but the engine was a little 'off'. Not one (of the three) cams were in time, and the two VVC units were out of sync with the control mechanism.
I sent him an email afterwards with detailed pics, imploring him to never, ever, touch a mechanical thing again.
Fair play for sticking with it. One thing, you need to paint your garage. The walls are filthy and it makes it look depressing. Otherwise, nice
It's a strange one really, it's a fairly complicated engine, it's not like rebuilding an old Pinto or something so the fact he re-built it and got it running shows he was fairly capable. I don't know why he didn't buy the correct tools for the job. Making a new dowel and cutting a slot into the camshaft and having a perfect fit in what they thought was the right place is fairly impressive work but on the other side, WTF is he thinking? Just buy a camshaft. He'd spent thousands on the turbo and machine work at this point. k me, what a of a previous owner.Reminds me of a t
t I bought an MGF VVC off of, years ago. He proudly stated he'd done a 'proper job' of replacing the head gasket, etc. It was a very good price, and the condition of the car was pretty seductive, but the engine was a little 'off'. Not one (of the three) cams were in time, and the two VVC units were out of sync with the control mechanism.I sent him an email afterwards with detailed pics, imploring him to never, ever, touch a mechanical thing again.
Fair play for sticking with it. One thing, you need to paint your garage. The walls are filthy and it makes it look depressing. Otherwise, nice
The garage is looking a bit grim, hopefully I'll get a chance to tidy it up in the summer.
Ste372 said:
I don't know if you know this but salvage rebuild UK run a YouTube channel, they had a Evoque I think it was. One of the camshaft bolts comes loose, I'm sure the lobes spun on the actual cam its self. Maybe this has done the same and that's where the noise is coming from?
I have watched it (re-watched it earlier while trying to make sense of what I was seeing on my engine). They had a theory it had shifted a lobe but I think the bolt simply came lose and broke the dowel pin. They put a new pin in it, put it back together and got a specialist to do the chains. My bolt didn't come lose, it was tight as fk, practically glued in place with loads of thread lock. The dowel pin must have broken from them not have the correct tools when the removed the bolt. LunarOne said:
I have a 2006 A4 2.0T Avant and it's bodywork is perfect. Granted, I bought it for my mother several years ago and she didn't do many miles, but I drive it every few days and at 65k miles the only problems I know of are a failed clutch in 2018 and a failed thermostat that I replaced myself a few months ago. I suspect it'll need a new battery soon, but what car doesn't need a battery from time to time? I grant you that it's not any fun to drive...
A customer of mine had a 2001 A4 2.0. The non turbo 2.0 version and first of the B6 models like yours. It was a nice car even at ten years old and 100k. Very few issues - just a clutch (surprisingly easy) and a wheelbearing (ditto) The glovebox hinge broke on ours as well.
I’m running the below in my 320d at the moment. A noticeable difference in noise reduction and smoothness. I stick with Shell or Esso regular diesel, not supermarket fuel and it works. Whether it would be the same if I filled with V Power or Supreme, I’m not sure. But it only works out at £1.40 per dose, per tank. Filling with either of the above would be 5 times more expensive.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff