Papercup's V8 RX7
Discussion
jellison said:
Just been sent this link.
MADNESS.
Why would anyone pull out a perfectly good sportscars motive power and drop in some old Yanks Pushrod Iron!!
Its not iron. Its not old. At least get your facts straight before spouting MADNESS.
Why would anyone pull out a perfectly good sportscars motive power and drop in some old Yanks Pushrod Iron!!
Anyway, the answers are 'because I want to' and 'because after three years ownership when the rotary blew up, I fancied something different'.
Still waiting on the cam from the yanks (they are NOT fast movers....) and so to keep things progressing Craig has thrown in one of the multiple LS motors he has lying around the place so that he can continue with getting the gearbox in place and get the propshaft ordered.
The propshaft? I'm a subtle man so I've gone for the full monty; carbon fibre with a CV joint to match the TR6060 'box. $1250 from somewhere or other in the states. Tested and balanced to 8000rpm, it should hopefully address some of the high-speed vibrations these cars can suffer from with the non-standard engines. Hopefully it will arrive faster than the cam
Gearbox mount done:
Gear lever in the right place:
On a side note, my TR6060 has no oil cooler attached. Maybe thats why it was so cheap? Craig says to try it without, I remain convinced it will overheat just as the T56 did.
The propshaft? I'm a subtle man so I've gone for the full monty; carbon fibre with a CV joint to match the TR6060 'box. $1250 from somewhere or other in the states. Tested and balanced to 8000rpm, it should hopefully address some of the high-speed vibrations these cars can suffer from with the non-standard engines. Hopefully it will arrive faster than the cam
Gearbox mount done:
Gear lever in the right place:
On a side note, my TR6060 has no oil cooler attached. Maybe thats why it was so cheap? Craig says to try it without, I remain convinced it will overheat just as the T56 did.
Time for an update, as I've been falling behind with my photos sent from Craig, and forgot completely to post a few that I took myself, as I've been up a few times in the last few weeks.
First of all, a nice comparison of 'original subframe' versus Craig's 'Franken-Subframe':
Original:
Modified:
Original:
Modified:
The new cam is here and fitted, as are the new valve gear. Check out the difference between old and new:
So now this:
is waiting to go in here:
First of all, a nice comparison of 'original subframe' versus Craig's 'Franken-Subframe':
Original:
Modified:
Original:
Modified:
The new cam is here and fitted, as are the new valve gear. Check out the difference between old and new:
So now this:
is waiting to go in here:
As well as the obvious work going on (new engine, box, diff, driveshafts, propshaft, etc) I'm also addressing an issue with my headlamps. You may remember I have the Knightsports pop-ups, which look pant-wettingly good:
Unfortunately the lights they come with are pant-wettingly bad. They are only spotlights with no beam pattern, are not e-marked and are downright terrifiying at night.
So I've bought these:
Those are e-marked Hella dual projectors. They have a little motor inside them so they are dipped beam and high beam when you pull the stalk, the motor moving the small piece of metal out of the way to allow all the light through.
They come from here: http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/search/?query...rds=6&x... - just type '90mm' into the 'search' box to see the range.
You can see they do 'just dipped' and 'just main' so you could have one of each if you wanted to save some money, or one 'dipped' and one 'both' so that when you 'high-beam' you get all 4, but dipped is only two.
I cannot wait for full quad-light goodness
Unfortunately the lights they come with are pant-wettingly bad. They are only spotlights with no beam pattern, are not e-marked and are downright terrifiying at night.
So I've bought these:
Those are e-marked Hella dual projectors. They have a little motor inside them so they are dipped beam and high beam when you pull the stalk, the motor moving the small piece of metal out of the way to allow all the light through.
They come from here: http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/search/?query...rds=6&x... - just type '90mm' into the 'search' box to see the range.
You can see they do 'just dipped' and 'just main' so you could have one of each if you wanted to save some money, or one 'dipped' and one 'both' so that when you 'high-beam' you get all 4, but dipped is only two.
I cannot wait for full quad-light goodness
Edited by papercup on Wednesday 30th May 17:15
Oh, and yesterday I dropped the headers and downpipes into Zircotec in Abingdon to have them ceramic-coated, as part of my plan to lower the underbonnet (and in-car) temperatures. It better bloody work, is all I can say, as its £800 
It was tempting to go with the bright red, but the metallic black is harder wearing, and I've always been more about function than form......
It was tempting to go with the bright red, but the metallic black is harder wearing, and I've always been more about function than form......
jukeboxkev said:
Hi,I'm new to the forum and have found this thread very helpful and inspiring.Planning my own LS/RX7 build and was just wondering if some of that beefing up of the rear subframe could be avoided if torque bars similar to that use in the Hinson set up or the standard RX7 for that matter were used.So a Cobra and Viper rear are being used,any thoughts on using a Monaro diff.Thanks,Kev.
You'd need to talk to Craig to get definitive answers. I know the Rex diff has trouble with the torque of the V8, but it will be fine for a while. Mine's getting the Viper diff but Craig has a Cobra one on the bench being modified for another one. I haven't seen the hinson set-up but it doesn't sound very substantial as I know where it bolts on. Have you seen the original set-up on the back of mine, with the Mazda diff? Early pages of this thread....that's Craig's take on the Hinson rear-end [or limitations thereof] I believe.
I have this 'constant improvement' thing in my head; every time something is changes, it must be better, bigger, stronger. I was offered these yank driveshafts and they partner with a viper diff, and while the whole rear end is out anyway......
radiomike said:
Andy, I am working with 4P on our conversion and have the Camaro LS3/6060 in the workshop. The 'box does have an internal oil pump, what I am not so sure about is whether it is pumped lubrication or just a circulating pump for the cooler. The Camaro piping system uses quick release connectors into adaptors screwed into the 'box, one is high up at the front on the left and the other is low down on the right of the bellhousing. We have the metal OE pipes and I don't see a problem running a pair of flexible pipes but I suspect it is necessary to link the ports even if not using a cooler. Let me know if you need any pics or further info.
It turns out that my TR-6060 is not the same as the one on the Camaro SS that 4Packet/Radiomike and Taz (one of Craig's mates with a car build by him) has. For a start the bellhousing bolts on mine go through the gearbox and into the bellhousing; so the gearbox bolt holes are not threaded, and you could therefore undo the gearbox from the bellhousing and remove it, leaving the bellhousing attached to the car. You cannot do this on the Camaro 'box; the bolts start in the bellhousing, and the bellhousing bolt holes are not threadeed, and the bolts thread into the gearbox. So you cannot remove the gearbox from the bellhousing without removing the whole thing from the car.
The Camaro has a temp gauge fitted low and near the back of the 'box. Mine does not. It also has an oil pump and assorted piping where mine does not. I remain convinced that my gearbox will overheat like the last one did, but my attempts to find an easily-added aftermarket cooling kit for it (or even something 'OEM')I have failed so far. I may talk to some of the yank tranny shops, but I fear my blood pressure will stop me doing so; my annoyance at their appalling service and lack of communication skills has already been documented on this thread...
Also, I found a thread yesterday while googling where some Tremec guys were talking about the TR-6060. Apparently its name comes from the fact it is rated for 600 horses and 600 foot pounds. Elsewhere I've seen it rated for only 420 foot pounds, but this is because it is rated at that in a certain car. A heavy american car, no doubt, or something equally pie-favouring such as a Monaro. So no worries there.
It seems strange that even the Wiki page does not cast any light onto why these things are different; while the cooler and temp gauge can be explained away as being fitted by the OEM (Chevy, who make the Camaro), the changes in bellhousing, casing, and mountings seem weird. It appears there are several TR-6060 variants out there. The ZR-1 version (with LS9) is rated at 640 foot pounds. The Camaro one is rated at 420. I think it may be that this is because of the yank's notoriously litigious legal culture; they say its 420 so when you tune your car and the box explodes because you went drag racing, you can't sue anyone.
But my box should be the same as the Camaro one. The plate on it reads 'TUET10310-b' and googling that shows you that the ratios are the same as the Camaro (3.01 first gear). I see it for sale in Oz, and note that it may be the HSV version; its rated for all VE V8 applications, most of the LS series, and its for the HSV 427 engines (thats 7 litre). So there's nothing wrong with it per se, its just different in application than the Camaro one.
None of which i care about, apart from the fact I think its going to overheat when I rag the car senseless round a track for a whole session.
To the phones then....
I was up at Craig's yesterday, catching up with everyone there. Had an interesting chat with Blair about the airocn cut-out; he has a cunning plan which doesn't involve the use of a window switch. More later, if it works.
Some random pics I took;
Standard oil cooler replaced by something larger and more substantial
Just a shot of my new shiny ussy arms, chinky driveshaft and new subframe, purely because I love how they look, and they won't be this clean and shiny for long!
The clearance when those new lights open; not very much!
Some random pics I took;
Standard oil cooler replaced by something larger and more substantial
Just a shot of my new shiny ussy arms, chinky driveshaft and new subframe, purely because I love how they look, and they won't be this clean and shiny for long!
The clearance when those new lights open; not very much!
4packet said:
Just had to rewind back to pg 6 to remind myself why your oil cooler is on the drivers side! What temperature were you getting to with the stock cooler? Got me worried now.
At goodwood, 90 water and 100 oil. At Snetterton 300, it crept up and up and I got to 120 oil when i did a slow lap. Hence the new cooler.4packet said:
Also what do you use for a PS cooler.
Its on the early pages, i think when the oil cooler changed sides, there's a little dinky p/steering cooler in front of it. 4packet said:
Meant to ask you and Taz at the track if you have had any issues maintaining oil pressure during prolonged high G turns? Assume you have a sump baffle? I've read that the push rod V8 suffers from oil return issues so controlling the oil in the sump isn't the only issue. Packaging an accusump looks tricky in the FD engine bay.
Nope, never had an issue, and I only now have a sump baffle, i didn't before. 4packet said:
Keep us posted on the AC idea. I think the tricky thing is controlling it with some hysteresis. A trinary pressure switch may work but would probably keep cutting in and out
I'm only cutting it out for revs, its using the rest of the Mazda system for pressure. There's no low pressure, only high, I think. Its all earlier in the thread somewhere!4packet said:
With regards the TR6060, do you know if the VXR8 has a trans cooler? The Camaro was specced with an oil to water cooler for the engine while the base Corvette and VXR8 were not. The weight and duty cycle of the Camaro called for it apparently.
No idea on the VXR8 but it weighs a sodding ton (well, closer to two!), so it probably has one? The headers and downpipes came back from Zircotec a few weeks back, so Craig was then able to make the Y-Pipe to the mid-box again. As we had some time until the propshaft arrived, I sent that off to Zircotec could ceramic-coat it as well. The idea is to bring temperates down in the engine bar and the car, and this is the bit of the pipe that will sit under the front of the tunnel, where heat normal pours in near your knee from the centre console. So what the hell, what is another £200? That brings the total for ceramic coating to £1000-odd. Hope it works.
So that Y-Pipe is back as well and the whole thing is fitted, and it looks very smart. Pictures don't really do it justice, its a sort of metallic graphite colour, with spangly silver bits. Now I've made it sound like something Elvis would wear
Anyway, here is a few pictures, but you need to see it 'in the flesh' really.
With that fitted, the car started up for the first time today. Sounds great. Quiet, quieter than the LS2 as I stand next to it. Seems crisper off the throttle as well. I guess it should be, its brand new. Mapping booked for 18th July, but maybe there'll be a cancellation sooner.
So that Y-Pipe is back as well and the whole thing is fitted, and it looks very smart. Pictures don't really do it justice, its a sort of metallic graphite colour, with spangly silver bits. Now I've made it sound like something Elvis would wear
Anyway, here is a few pictures, but you need to see it 'in the flesh' really.
With that fitted, the car started up for the first time today. Sounds great. Quiet, quieter than the LS2 as I stand next to it. Seems crisper off the throttle as well. I guess it should be, its brand new. Mapping booked for 18th July, but maybe there'll be a cancellation sooner.
The other big news; propshaft arrived yesterday morning
Thats mine at the bottom and Craig's at the top. You can see the differences on the left-hand-side; the TR-6060 has a better mount with a nicer coupling compared to the T56 mount above.
Here it is fitted to the gearbox, with the newly-fitted, ceramic-coated Y-Pipe:
Being carbon fibre, its wider than a normal prop, so unfortunately, having fitted it at the rear and bolted up the newly-fitted mid-box, the back of the mid-box is too close to the prop, so the diff needs to move up; whole rear suspension out again and more welding for Craig
Onward and upward. Also still to do is the headlamps, the aircon cut-out at higher revs, and Craig has copied my Spa gauges (seen earlier in the thread) but also bought the one that does Volts and Fuel Level, to replace the standard Mazda fuel gauge. This would be useful, I already have two of the Spa gauges, and the standard Mazda fuel gauge now looks out of place on that side of the dash, so I think thats going to have to be fitted as well
Thats mine at the bottom and Craig's at the top. You can see the differences on the left-hand-side; the TR-6060 has a better mount with a nicer coupling compared to the T56 mount above.
Here it is fitted to the gearbox, with the newly-fitted, ceramic-coated Y-Pipe:
Being carbon fibre, its wider than a normal prop, so unfortunately, having fitted it at the rear and bolted up the newly-fitted mid-box, the back of the mid-box is too close to the prop, so the diff needs to move up; whole rear suspension out again and more welding for Craig
Onward and upward. Also still to do is the headlamps, the aircon cut-out at higher revs, and Craig has copied my Spa gauges (seen earlier in the thread) but also bought the one that does Volts and Fuel Level, to replace the standard Mazda fuel gauge. This would be useful, I already have two of the Spa gauges, and the standard Mazda fuel gauge now looks out of place on that side of the dash, so I think thats going to have to be fitted as well
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