SEAT Ibiza - rwd turbo
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
No, not really. As a 2wd it couldn't make use of any extra low rpm torque, and the effort would be better spent on chasing more power......... ;-)
so what are the plans for more power? bigger turbo? i guess you want a nice smooth delivery of torque with no, sudden, spikes, is that right? Max_Torque said:
More revs! ;-)
I'd like to build a 10krpm engine, but to do that with my current one would be extremely difficult due to the undersquare configuration.
(Oh, and i'd like to go DI as well)
10krpm!! I'd like to build a 10krpm engine, but to do that with my current one would be extremely difficult due to the undersquare configuration.
(Oh, and i'd like to go DI as well)
Bloody hell that would be incredible, what engines would be likely to look at to achieve that and DI?
Also epic build so far
Very tricky if i wanted to go DI, because pretty much all the modern DO engines are small bore low speed engines ;-(
Ignoring DI, then a Millington cylinder head (95mm bore) on a machined from solid block / liners with gear driven cams would probably survive the loadings, with a short stroke crank and nice long rods to keep control of piston dynamics etc
Ignoring DI, then a Millington cylinder head (95mm bore) on a machined from solid block / liners with gear driven cams would probably survive the loadings, with a short stroke crank and nice long rods to keep control of piston dynamics etc
Max_Torque said:
Very tricky if i wanted to go DI, because pretty much all the modern DO engines are small bore low speed engines ;-(
Ignoring DI, then a Millington cylinder head (95mm bore) on a machined from solid block / liners with gear driven cams would probably survive the loadings, with a short stroke crank and nice long rods to keep control of piston dynamics etc
Would a ford ecoboost work?Ignoring DI, then a Millington cylinder head (95mm bore) on a machined from solid block / liners with gear driven cams would probably survive the loadings, with a short stroke crank and nice long rods to keep control of piston dynamics etc
BMW S14/5 DTM engines were running 9500RPM in 1993/4. 95.28mm bore/87mm stroke 2484cc. You could run shorter stroke/long rod for 2.0litre and 10000rpm.
Max_Torque said:
Very tricky if i wanted to go DI, because pretty much all the modern DO engines are small bore low speed engines ;-(
Ignoring DI, then a Millington cylinder head (95mm bore) on a machined from solid block / liners with gear driven cams would probably survive the loadings, with a short stroke crank and nice long rods to keep control of piston dynamics etc
Ignoring DI, then a Millington cylinder head (95mm bore) on a machined from solid block / liners with gear driven cams would probably survive the loadings, with a short stroke crank and nice long rods to keep control of piston dynamics etc
Back to the (neverending?)story ;-)
With the bare shell back from painting, the task of fitting out the cars numerous systems, mechanical, hydraulic & electrical could begin. A massive task to do neatly and properly. I've seen too many cars on a rally stage break down for want of a well places cable restraint, or a properly routed pipe etc.
I'd tried to trial fit most of the major systems before the shell was stripped/electroplates/painted so most of the holes for fixings etc were already drilled, but of course, you can never get 'em all, and constant evolution of the systems during build mean't that some drilly/hammery stuff was required (but not much!)
First work centered around the main bulkhead, as this is completely inaccessible once the engine was installed
Pipe runs for brakes, clutch, firesystem, PAS, cooling bleed, fuel, and vehicle electrical looming went in.
On the cabin side, looming and engine control units were mounted:
The centre tunnel assy carries all the power distribution and hosts the front - rear loom runs, and uses a number of multiway connectors to interface to the bulkhead and read looms to make it easy(ish) to remove
Pretty much all the systems that are not engine related are mounted low behind the navigators seat, inc water injection pumps and reservoir, PAS, Fire system, main electrical contactor etc
The hydraulic handbrake and rear break proportioning valve are also mounted on the centre tunnel cover
The pedal box and steering column were installed on the drivers (LH) side:
And the dash cover fitted over the top:
(shown here prior to being 'flocked')
Now the dummy build engine could be slotted into place to allow engine bay plumbing for the fuel, oil and cooling systems to occur:
I really didn't want to end up with the dry sump tank in the boot, as that adds masses of weight and means you need a lot of oil in the system to avoid surges etc. So that gets packaged tight at the rear RHS of the engine:
Throughout this time, numerous systems were built up as modules ready for installation:
Engine + throttle ecu's & Water injection + boost solenoid drivers on a carrier that mount them under the navigator foot rest:
Centre dash switch pannel as a "plug in" module:
Completed center tunnel unit with manual shift lever:
First stage electrical system tests were also run outside of the car (living room floor ;-)
The electrohydraulic PAS pump was not really man enough for the job and so got ditched early on for the latest TRW brushless electrohydraulic unit, being commmanded via CAN bus data:
Again, mounted low and rear wards for mass optimisation reasons.
Apparently silly little jobs, like a clutch foot rest and floor plate absorbed more hrs of time:
Luckily, being 'fly-by'wire' the throttle pedal was an easy job without the usual hassles of getting a nice smooth mech cable routing etc ;-)
As more and more systems were fitted, it became harder and harder to maintain a quality and neat install!
Next time, engine support systems (fuel, exhaust, cooling, heat shielding etc) ;-)
With the bare shell back from painting, the task of fitting out the cars numerous systems, mechanical, hydraulic & electrical could begin. A massive task to do neatly and properly. I've seen too many cars on a rally stage break down for want of a well places cable restraint, or a properly routed pipe etc.
I'd tried to trial fit most of the major systems before the shell was stripped/electroplates/painted so most of the holes for fixings etc were already drilled, but of course, you can never get 'em all, and constant evolution of the systems during build mean't that some drilly/hammery stuff was required (but not much!)
First work centered around the main bulkhead, as this is completely inaccessible once the engine was installed
Pipe runs for brakes, clutch, firesystem, PAS, cooling bleed, fuel, and vehicle electrical looming went in.
On the cabin side, looming and engine control units were mounted:
The centre tunnel assy carries all the power distribution and hosts the front - rear loom runs, and uses a number of multiway connectors to interface to the bulkhead and read looms to make it easy(ish) to remove
Pretty much all the systems that are not engine related are mounted low behind the navigators seat, inc water injection pumps and reservoir, PAS, Fire system, main electrical contactor etc
The hydraulic handbrake and rear break proportioning valve are also mounted on the centre tunnel cover
The pedal box and steering column were installed on the drivers (LH) side:
And the dash cover fitted over the top:
(shown here prior to being 'flocked')
Now the dummy build engine could be slotted into place to allow engine bay plumbing for the fuel, oil and cooling systems to occur:
I really didn't want to end up with the dry sump tank in the boot, as that adds masses of weight and means you need a lot of oil in the system to avoid surges etc. So that gets packaged tight at the rear RHS of the engine:
Throughout this time, numerous systems were built up as modules ready for installation:
Engine + throttle ecu's & Water injection + boost solenoid drivers on a carrier that mount them under the navigator foot rest:
Centre dash switch pannel as a "plug in" module:
Completed center tunnel unit with manual shift lever:
First stage electrical system tests were also run outside of the car (living room floor ;-)
The electrohydraulic PAS pump was not really man enough for the job and so got ditched early on for the latest TRW brushless electrohydraulic unit, being commmanded via CAN bus data:
Again, mounted low and rear wards for mass optimisation reasons.
Apparently silly little jobs, like a clutch foot rest and floor plate absorbed more hrs of time:
Luckily, being 'fly-by'wire' the throttle pedal was an easy job without the usual hassles of getting a nice smooth mech cable routing etc ;-)
As more and more systems were fitted, it became harder and harder to maintain a quality and neat install!
Next time, engine support systems (fuel, exhaust, cooling, heat shielding etc) ;-)
, I have nothing more to add. You sir are a legend, can't wait to see it finished!With the engine low and far back in the chassis, and the turbocharger mounted as low as possible, the exhaust line was fairly straight forward, but i wanted the exhaust system to be tucked up nice and tight into the floor pan and transmission tunnel so i could run the car low without danger of knocking low hanging parts off it!
Space constraints also mean't that quite a lot of "hot" bits would be crammed into a small and not necessarily well ventilated space.
To limit thermal issues a significant amount of thermal protection was needed between the hot exhaust line components and the rest of the car:
Particularly around the RHS engine mount & dry sump tank:
Underfloor heat shielding:
Post turbine exhaust and wastegate exhaust integrate nicely togther:
Exhaust is pretty conventional 3" stainless system:
Slip joints and springs allow for thermal expansion to occur without excessive strain on the fairly solid mountign system.
Fan style 'tailpipe' sneaks out under the back of the off side rear sill:
That saves having to route the large diameter exhaust through the rear suspension and diffuser
And straight onto the.........
Space constraints also mean't that quite a lot of "hot" bits would be crammed into a small and not necessarily well ventilated space.
To limit thermal issues a significant amount of thermal protection was needed between the hot exhaust line components and the rest of the car:
Particularly around the RHS engine mount & dry sump tank:
Underfloor heat shielding:
Post turbine exhaust and wastegate exhaust integrate nicely togther:
Exhaust is pretty conventional 3" stainless system:
Slip joints and springs allow for thermal expansion to occur without excessive strain on the fairly solid mountign system.
Fan style 'tailpipe' sneaks out under the back of the off side rear sill:
That saves having to route the large diameter exhaust through the rear suspension and diffuser
And straight onto the.........
.... fuel system!
The small (35l) "sprint sized" ATL tank sits in steel housing low and rearwards:
Dual (in rearmost LSH & rear RHS corners of the tank)internal low pressure lift pumps sit in the tank using a "trapdoor" system and foam to prevent excessive slosh:
Fuel filler is routed upwards to a panel let into the nearside rear window aperture. The 2" fuel filler hose is fitted internally into a larger diameter alluminum pipe to protect it, and isolate any leaks, that are vented out the bottom of the tank well rather than into the cockpit:
The filler cap and fill vent (via quick fit connector) mount into the window panel:
(as do the GPS & RF Burst Telemetry antennas)
The tank internal LP pumps feed into a swirl pot mounted in front of the tank (but under a sealed cover from the cockpit). The outlet of this swirl pot runs to a dual series set of BOSCH 044 gradeA high pressure pumps.
The -6 high pressure fuel line is routed forwards along the nearside sill (in cabin) and up through the main bulkhead:
At that point the fuel pressure and temperature is measured, before the fuel is passed along to the two engine mounted rails (primary & secondary rails). The primary rail is mounted in the normal position, close to the intake valves, and the secondary rail with the much bigger injectors is mounted in a "staged" location up in the plenum, firing directly down the intake trumpets:
The secondary rail also features a pressure damper to help remove dynamic pressure fluctuations:
The system is returnless, and uses a pressure controller to supply fuel to a target pressure (actually an injector delta pressure as it takes into account the plenum pressure). The pump controller sits above the pump housing:
It also controls the lift pumps, carrying out both key-on priming and de-aeration strategies and also sequences the lift pumps depending on lateral g (biases towards the lift pump where the fuel is sitting due to cornering g). The high pressure control has various modes, including an overpressure start assist (8bar) to help prevent vapour locking during hot starting. Normal injector delta pressure is maintained at 6 bar during engine run, and at 3 bar during idle(lengthened minimum pulse width) and engine off( reduced noise/power consumption)
Next up: Engine cooling ;-)
The small (35l) "sprint sized" ATL tank sits in steel housing low and rearwards:
Dual (in rearmost LSH & rear RHS corners of the tank)internal low pressure lift pumps sit in the tank using a "trapdoor" system and foam to prevent excessive slosh:
Fuel filler is routed upwards to a panel let into the nearside rear window aperture. The 2" fuel filler hose is fitted internally into a larger diameter alluminum pipe to protect it, and isolate any leaks, that are vented out the bottom of the tank well rather than into the cockpit:
The filler cap and fill vent (via quick fit connector) mount into the window panel:
(as do the GPS & RF Burst Telemetry antennas)
The tank internal LP pumps feed into a swirl pot mounted in front of the tank (but under a sealed cover from the cockpit). The outlet of this swirl pot runs to a dual series set of BOSCH 044 gradeA high pressure pumps.
The -6 high pressure fuel line is routed forwards along the nearside sill (in cabin) and up through the main bulkhead:
At that point the fuel pressure and temperature is measured, before the fuel is passed along to the two engine mounted rails (primary & secondary rails). The primary rail is mounted in the normal position, close to the intake valves, and the secondary rail with the much bigger injectors is mounted in a "staged" location up in the plenum, firing directly down the intake trumpets:
The secondary rail also features a pressure damper to help remove dynamic pressure fluctuations:
The system is returnless, and uses a pressure controller to supply fuel to a target pressure (actually an injector delta pressure as it takes into account the plenum pressure). The pump controller sits above the pump housing:
It also controls the lift pumps, carrying out both key-on priming and de-aeration strategies and also sequences the lift pumps depending on lateral g (biases towards the lift pump where the fuel is sitting due to cornering g). The high pressure control has various modes, including an overpressure start assist (8bar) to help prevent vapour locking during hot starting. Normal injector delta pressure is maintained at 6 bar during engine run, and at 3 bar during idle(lengthened minimum pulse width) and engine off( reduced noise/power consumption)
Next up: Engine cooling ;-)
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