Mk1 Ford Focus RS
Discussion
Zarco said:
MT - I expect this has been covered in the past, but is there any truth that some press cars were tweaked in some way? This being the reason EVO were not big fans of the car at launch whilst other mags were, and then EVO subsequently changed their opinion after driving a customer car.
No, the press cars were boggo standard. I know because I drove every one of them after re-flashing them with the latest calibration in preparation for the launch at Lommel. I also supported the UK shindig up at M-Sport with all the shiny WRC cars.I suspect that something might have "fallen off" the EVO car that ran some phenomenal 0-60 time, from hazy memory - but also became a torque-steer monster. That something was perhaps the boost solenoid hose which means that the ECU loses control of boost in spectacular fashion. I don't know this for sure but I remember one of the magazine articles being a notable outlier. They were all very similar cars to drive when I checked them all out prior to both events.
Edited by AER on Tuesday 16th April 09:46
Zarco said:
MT - I expect this has been covered in the past, but is there any truth that some press cars were tweaked in some way? This being the reason EVO were not big fans of the car at launch whilst other mags were, and then EVO subsequently changed their opinion after driving a customer car.
As AER suggests, i certainly wasn't aware of any of the press cars being deliberately tweaked away from the production specs. I'm sure, like all press cars, minor changes were made to geometry and special care was taken to set the cars up properly, but nothing that would be difficult for an owner to do.The RS was always very tyre sensitive, because it wore what, for the time, are wide, low profile tyres on big stiff rims, and with basic strut suspension, the camber gain was always going to be significant. The R&H team spent ages phaffing around with tyre connicity and other such things, as the real steering centre point, and hence the scrub radii and other such important things, were very dependant on those factors. The later cars that spent more time getting thrashed around smooth tracks were definitely more torque steery, than the earlier prototypes that were mostly evaluated on typical bumpy British B roads.
Personally i always felt that for the UK, and our slower speed tighter type roads the car could have had a bit more movement at the back to help point it into the turns, but i was brought up on a diet of French hot hatches that traded ultimate grip for agility...........
AER said:
Regarding the boost control on EEC-V, it didn't have much at all to do with the Cosworth/Marelli controller. It was a complete re-write concocted by moi and coded by a bunch of guys in Cambridge who now belong to the Ricardo group from now hazy memory - can't think of their company name.
iirc, It was Pectel, who became Pi, who are now part of Cosworth Group, but who at the time were still owned by Ford. They were the original company who wrote the control code for the Cosworth Mondeo Turbo demo......Zarco said:
MT - I expect this has been covered in the past, but is there any truth that some press cars were tweaked in some way? This being the reason EVO were not big fans of the car at launch whilst other mags were, and then EVO subsequently changed their opinion after driving a customer car.
Some of the first customer cars had an issue with a boost control hose coming off, and thus full boost being delivered at all times, providing a very healthy improvement to 0-60 times and increased torque steer (though it isn't really torque steer, just that's what everyone called it and it stuck).I always assumed that the EVO car had the same issue, everyone else's benchmarks were about right, and my own car delivered the book figures when tested too.
Max_Torque said:
The engine makes it's claimed power. That power is however the "certification" number that is a 30 second average, ie not a "flash" or "snap" reading. If you run the engine, with a cold charge cooling system and take a single snap reading, yes, you'll get a few more horses, i'd guess at around 220, but not 240 bhp.
When we were developing the car we took a CP level prototype to the RS owners club day at donington park, where Neil Briggs promptly lapped everything on track, including a number of so called "500 horse power" Cossies....... As the car we took was bog standard i know it had just 230bhp (had the tubular manifold back then) so from that i think we can conclude two things:
1) OEM horses are bigger than tuner horses
2) NeilB can pedal a bit...... ;-)
Mine did a rolling road session that claimed 220, must have been about right as the ST170s were struggling to hit 160 When we were developing the car we took a CP level prototype to the RS owners club day at donington park, where Neil Briggs promptly lapped everything on track, including a number of so called "500 horse power" Cossies....... As the car we took was bog standard i know it had just 230bhp (had the tubular manifold back then) so from that i think we can conclude two things:
1) OEM horses are bigger than tuner horses
2) NeilB can pedal a bit...... ;-)
I went to that RSOC day at Donnington, and watched the focus muller all the cossies and a scooby too, that was the day I decided I had to have one
Edited by Cabinet Enforcer on Tuesday 16th April 17:23
Edited by Cabinet Enforcer on Tuesday 16th April 17:24
MK1RS Bruce said:
Thanks for the link will give that stuff a try!
Haven't got anything planned once I get it back other than to use it an enjoy it!
However having said that i am tempted to get it remapped, with the brief of keeping the standard characteristics but just more of it, there is a well known tuner near Bristol who are very good at tuning these cars but keeping the character of them.
I am also keen to see if I can engineer a new charge cooler system for it. The original charge cooler boxes appear to have a finite shelf life and replacements from Ford cost thousands, assuming they are still available. So my current thoughts are whether it would be possible to package a barrel type charge cooler into the existing box envelope such that I would have a cheaper replacement which I believe would be more efficient but keep the standard appearance. Most people convert the standard charge cooler to an Air to Air front mounted intercooler but fundamentally air to air is not as efficient and as you can see I like a challenge so I want to maintain the charge cooler set up I just need to work out how haha.
Ping me a PM, I can recommend two VERY good companies who’ll re-engineer a chargecooler within the original housing for you.Haven't got anything planned once I get it back other than to use it an enjoy it!
However having said that i am tempted to get it remapped, with the brief of keeping the standard characteristics but just more of it, there is a well known tuner near Bristol who are very good at tuning these cars but keeping the character of them.
I am also keen to see if I can engineer a new charge cooler system for it. The original charge cooler boxes appear to have a finite shelf life and replacements from Ford cost thousands, assuming they are still available. So my current thoughts are whether it would be possible to package a barrel type charge cooler into the existing box envelope such that I would have a cheaper replacement which I believe would be more efficient but keep the standard appearance. Most people convert the standard charge cooler to an Air to Air front mounted intercooler but fundamentally air to air is not as efficient and as you can see I like a challenge so I want to maintain the charge cooler set up I just need to work out how haha.
Max_Torque said:
AER said:
Regarding the boost control on EEC-V, it didn't have much at all to do with the Cosworth/Marelli controller. It was a complete re-write concocted by moi and coded by a bunch of guys in Cambridge who now belong to the Ricardo group from now hazy memory - can't think of their company name.
iirc, It was Pectel, who became Pi, who are now part of Cosworth Group, but who at the time were still owned by Ford. They were the original company who wrote the control code for the Cosworth Mondeo Turbo demo......Cabinet Enforcer said:
Zarco said:
MT - I expect this has been covered in the past, but is there any truth that some press cars were tweaked in some way? This being the reason EVO were not big fans of the car at launch whilst other mags were, and then EVO subsequently changed their opinion after driving a customer car.
Some of the first customer cars had an issue with a boost control hose coming off, and thus full boost being delivered at all times, providing a very healthy improvement to 0-60 times and increased torque steer (though it isn't really torque steer, just that's what everyone called it and it stuck).I always assumed that the EVO car had the same issue, everyone else's benchmarks were about right, and my own car delivered the book figures when tested too.
AER said:
Cabinet Enforcer said:
Zarco said:
MT - I expect this has been covered in the past, but is there any truth that some press cars were tweaked in some way? This being the reason EVO were not big fans of the car at launch whilst other mags were, and then EVO subsequently changed their opinion after driving a customer car.
Some of the first customer cars had an issue with a boost control hose coming off, and thus full boost being delivered at all times, providing a very healthy improvement to 0-60 times and increased torque steer (though it isn't really torque steer, just that's what everyone called it and it stuck).I always assumed that the EVO car had the same issue, everyone else's benchmarks were about right, and my own car delivered the book figures when tested too.
However, given that we are talking about RS owners here, it certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility that this was all a result of "what'll she do" type tomfoolery.
Bit more progress on the re-construction
Still a few finishing touches to add but it is getting closer to completion.
Will be a huge amount of cleaning required to get rid of all the dust that has accumulated while its been in the workshop.
Hopefully completion will time nicely with the arrival of the summer weather
Still a few finishing touches to add but it is getting closer to completion.
Will be a huge amount of cleaning required to get rid of all the dust that has accumulated while its been in the workshop.
Hopefully completion will time nicely with the arrival of the summer weather
MK1RS Bruce said:
Here is a pic of Malcolm Wilsons old Escort cosworth, it lives up here and was in to get a blemish on the bumper repaired.
The photo doesn't do it justice and I'd never realised how small Escort cosworths are!
I thought they were pretty much a reskinned Saphire Cosworth and that most of the panels on the Escort Cosworth are not even able fit on a normal Escort of same time period? The photo doesn't do it justice and I'd never realised how small Escort cosworths are!
Either way, still one of my bucket list cars if I ever won the lottery. Actually I would have a fair few "Fast Fords" in my ultimate 10 car garage if I won the lottery, starting with the RS200 , an RS500 in "Moonstone Grey", Escort Cosworth, Ford GT (I'm too tall to fit in a GT40
) and finally a Ford Racing Puma in the Ford Racing Blue this Focus RS has been painted in!Felix79 said:
I thought they were pretty much a reskinned Saphire Cosworth and that most of the panels on the Escort Cosworth are not even able fit on a normal Escort of same time period?
Either way, still one of my bucket list cars if I ever won the lottery. Actually I would have a fair few "Fast Fords" in my ultimate 10 car garage if I won the lottery, starting with the RS200 , an RS500 in "Moonstone Grey", Escort Cosworth, Ford GT (I'm too tall to fit in a GT40 ) and finally a Ford Racing Puma in the Ford Racing Blue this Focus RS has been painted in!
I heard only the bonnet and doors from the regular Escort would fit?Either way, still one of my bucket list cars if I ever won the lottery. Actually I would have a fair few "Fast Fords" in my ultimate 10 car garage if I won the lottery, starting with the RS200 , an RS500 in "Moonstone Grey", Escort Cosworth, Ford GT (I'm too tall to fit in a GT40
) and finally a Ford Racing Puma in the Ford Racing Blue this Focus RS has been painted in!Felix79 said:
I thought they were pretty much a reskinned Saphire Cosworth and that most of the panels on the Escort Cosworth are not even able fit on a normal Escort of same time period?
Something like that, IIRC they basically started with a Sierra Cosworth running gear with Escort panels, although as it was a year before the standard Escort was released I don't even know how close it was to the end product. Felix79 said:
Either way, still one of my bucket list cars if I ever won the lottery. Actually I would have a fair few "Fast Fords" in my ultimate 10 car garage if I won the lottery, starting with the RS200 , an RS500 in "Moonstone Grey", Escort Cosworth, Ford GT (I'm too tall to fit in a GT40 )
Taller than Dan 6'4" Gurney? )Yeah, I'm just over 6'4" , so would need have the bubble on the door and the pedals moved back to even have a chance to fit in one. I'm amazed I was ever able to drive a Mk1 MX-5 V-Special and currently drive a BMW Z4M Roadster!
Because of my height and spinal damage, I've always owned 2 door Coupe's, as the doors are wider than normal front doors, which makes it easier for me to get in and out of the car. The amount of times I whack my shoulder and arms on the A pillars on most 4 door cars (my old mans '15 C-Class 4 door is always a nightmare for me getting in and out of).
Because of my height and spinal damage, I've always owned 2 door Coupe's, as the doors are wider than normal front doors, which makes it easier for me to get in and out of the car. The amount of times I whack my shoulder and arms on the A pillars on most 4 door cars (my old mans '15 C-Class 4 door is always a nightmare for me getting in and out of).
MK1RS Bruce said:
Bit more progress on the re-construction
Still a few finishing touches to add but it is getting closer to completion.
Will be a huge amount of cleaning required to get rid of all the dust that has accumulated while its been in the workshop.
Hopefully completion will time nicely with the arrival of the summer weather
Try Dodo Juice Supernatural leather cleaner to get rid of that gloss from the seats and door cards. Still a few finishing touches to add but it is getting closer to completion.
Will be a huge amount of cleaning required to get rid of all the dust that has accumulated while its been in the workshop.
Hopefully completion will time nicely with the arrival of the summer weather
Looking forward to seeing it finished.
Max_Torque said:
Jeez, these threads on people "restoring" their RS's make me feel old, as i was part of the team that developed the car!
How cool! I’m on my second one. Had my first one from new. A bit rough and ready, and the seating position is too high, but it’s a pretty interesting car. Zarco said:
MT - I expect this has been covered in the past, but is there any truth that some press cars were tweaked in some way? This being the reason EVO were not big fans of the car at launch whilst other mags were, and then EVO subsequently changed their opinion after driving a customer car.
Me and a friend had them when they first came out. His was much wilder than mine, my LSD felt much smoother. There were rumours of the later cars being toned down vis a vis the diff, and mine was a later car than his. My current car feels like his did, not sure if this is down to differences in individual cars though. Alpinestars said:
Me and a friend had them when they first came out. His was much wilder than mine, my LSD felt much smoother. There were rumours of the later cars being toned down vis a vis the diff, and mine was a later car than his. My current car feels like his did, not sure if this is down to differences in individual cars though.
They seem to be very sensitive to tyres and also geometry, it the geometry is off they don't behave like they should. I have been lucky with mine in that it was always excellent, will see how it drives when I get it back and if its not how I remember it thenI will take it and have the geometry set up as per the factory settings.MK1RS Bruce said:
They seem to be very sensitive to tyres and also geometry, it the geometry is off they don't behave like they should. I have been lucky with mine in that it was always excellent, will see how it drives when I get it back and if its not how I remember it thenI will take it and have the geometry set up as per the factory settings.
Geo is definitely a factor. But both cars were brand new so unlikely to be geo, and the tyres were OEM.
My current one was absolutely awful when I bought it, almost like the diff wasn’t working at all. And that was down to geo. I was convinced it was the diff.
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