ListerBell Stratos
Discussion
Krikkit said:
Is be tempted to go for hotter cams but stick with 95. Nothing more annoying than range anxiety spoiling a hoon, especially if you're somewhere that the stations might get rural.
Car looks and sounds amazing by the way!
Octane booster solves that problem. I use it occasionally and have not had any problems.Car looks and sounds amazing by the way!
renmure said:
I'm also going to get the exhaust manifolds camcoated. I'm not sure if there would be temperature issues in the STR or not but it's easier to do it now than later and I'll probably get them done when the car is away being trimmed.
This is a good point actually since I think heat management is fairly marginal on the car, as it is on the Miura actually, so it’s probably a basic architectural trait. The temps climb quite a bit in stop start traffic, and while I’ve had no boil ups, you can see the system is working hard. Do you know if anyone has tried systematically uprating the cooling system? I’m looking into a bigger/better radiator and more powerful fans as an obvious first step, but hadn’t really considered the manifolds. The other route could be an oil cooler. Put one on the VW camper, since the cooling slats really only work up to 50mph. When you upgrade the engine (as everybody does), they can’t really cope. The oil radiator sits underneath the bus, in the airstream, and has a cooling fan of its own. Never had a problem with heat buildup since we did that. 
Again, my lack of technical nouse may be obvious here but I know that I've spec'd the Laminova heat exchanger option from the LB options list and also the upgrade to the competition spec alloy radiator on my car, both of which I think should help with temp issues. Not sure what you have on yours.
I've been lucky with my Ultima that I've not had issues with cavitation from fuel in the system boiling but it is a fairly common problem for many owners. Some folk have re-plumbed and upgraded the fuel system but there's loads of people used zircotec coating on the manifolds or exhaust wrapping or camcoat and in all the cases I can think of they have solved the cavitation problem using one of these methods so in terms of fixing heat issues they all seem to be good enough.
For me, the wrapping looks a bit rough and almost too "race-car" like. Being Scottish, I like the fact that the camcoat is about half the price of the zircotec and that probably seals it for me but I will get a quote for the Zircotec and weigh things up. There's a wider choice of colour with zircotec but as much as I'd like red, or gold I'm going to go with functional black so that levels the playing field.
I've not read of anyone saying that they've experienced heat issues with a Stratos kit, and I have asked, but I'm not sure if that's because there are relatively few cars on the road and not everyone is shouting on the internet or if it's because the systems may be working hard but they cope well enough. Being a non-techie sort I just look and think there's a lot of hot stuff in a small place so trying to mitigate any issues beforehand seems sensible....... oh, and black will look cool, just like the original rally cars
I've been lucky with my Ultima that I've not had issues with cavitation from fuel in the system boiling but it is a fairly common problem for many owners. Some folk have re-plumbed and upgraded the fuel system but there's loads of people used zircotec coating on the manifolds or exhaust wrapping or camcoat and in all the cases I can think of they have solved the cavitation problem using one of these methods so in terms of fixing heat issues they all seem to be good enough.
For me, the wrapping looks a bit rough and almost too "race-car" like. Being Scottish, I like the fact that the camcoat is about half the price of the zircotec and that probably seals it for me but I will get a quote for the Zircotec and weigh things up. There's a wider choice of colour with zircotec but as much as I'd like red, or gold I'm going to go with functional black so that levels the playing field.
I've not read of anyone saying that they've experienced heat issues with a Stratos kit, and I have asked, but I'm not sure if that's because there are relatively few cars on the road and not everyone is shouting on the internet or if it's because the systems may be working hard but they cope well enough. Being a non-techie sort I just look and think there's a lot of hot stuff in a small place so trying to mitigate any issues beforehand seems sensible....... oh, and black will look cool, just like the original rally cars
Edited by renmure on Thursday 17th October 21:52
renmure said:
Again, my lack of technical nouse may be obvious here but I know that I've spec'd the Laminova heat exchanger option from the LB options list and also the upgrade to the competition spec alloy radiator on my car, both of which I think should help with temp issues. Not sure what you have on yours.
Craig had seen this post mate so answered straight away when I emailed him earlier today, Sunday! His top suggestion is to fit an auxilliary electric water pump. You have one fitted to your car. It's a Davies Craig unit and this is an excerpt from their website: When the engine is hot and idling, the mechanical pump will be moving coolant at about 15 litres per minute, while the EWP will kick in with up to an extra 150 litres per minute, and so dump a huge amount of heat. If you upgrade from the switch to our digital controller being wired to the battery, on hot shut down, the fans and EWP will run for about half a minute and wash out heat which will protect the head gasket and other components from excessive heat damage
As you can see it really kicks in when you're stationary in traffic. By the way, I'm hugely impressed by how freely Craig from ListerBell provides technical support. Blown away actually, as I am by the finished product. I've had to raise the mileage limit on my insurance I've been using it that often.
As it's not turbo-charged nor super-charged (unless I missed that bit), the CR will be constant. AFAIK, if the CR is less than 10.5:1, there is no requirement for a higher octane than 95, unless the mapping causes pinking and the fuel octane is used to hide it.
High octane fuel does not give a bigger bang, it just means that it can be compressed more before it pre-detonates (pinks).
There's no advantage using high octane fuel in an engine that doesn't need it.
I think the OP is doing the right thing by mapping for economy and mapping for fun. A fantastic project and I'm not envious in the slightest
.
High octane fuel does not give a bigger bang, it just means that it can be compressed more before it pre-detonates (pinks).
There's no advantage using high octane fuel in an engine that doesn't need it.
I think the OP is doing the right thing by mapping for economy and mapping for fun. A fantastic project and I'm not envious in the slightest
.456mgt said:
EWP will run for about half a minute and wash out heat which will protect the head gasket and other components from excessive heat damage
I run an EWP and advocate them but I do wonder about this claim. If you have a head gasket that could be damaged by heat soak when the engine isn't running, how could it possibly survive spirited use?I also wonder if enhanced flow cools more as a default. As I understand it a radiator will cool X amount of water by Y degrees. If you increase the flow you will cool more water by less degrees. I believe the overall heat loss, within perimeters, would be the same.
None of which is likely to trouble the OP, the car looks fantastic.
456mgt said:
Craig had seen this post mate so answered straight away when I emailed him earlier today, Sunday! His top suggestion is to fit an auxilliary electric water pump. You have one fitted to your car. It's a Davies Craig unit and this is an excerpt from their website:
When the engine is hot and idling, the mechanical pump will be moving coolant at about 15 litres per minute, while the EWP will kick in with up to an extra 150 litres per minute, and so dump a huge amount of heat. If you upgrade from the switch to our digital controller being wired to the battery, on hot shut down, the fans and EWP will run for about half a minute and wash out heat which will protect the head gasket and other components from excessive heat damage
Thanks. That certainly seems to be a neat solution. When the engine is hot and idling, the mechanical pump will be moving coolant at about 15 litres per minute, while the EWP will kick in with up to an extra 150 litres per minute, and so dump a huge amount of heat. If you upgrade from the switch to our digital controller being wired to the battery, on hot shut down, the fans and EWP will run for about half a minute and wash out heat which will protect the head gasket and other components from excessive heat damage
456mgt said:
By the way, I'm hugely impressed by how freely Craig from ListerBell provides technical support. Blown away actually, as I am by the finished product.
He told me he never reads Pistonheads. I better go back and edit all the bad bits and criticisms 
I agree tho, the whole product really is on a different level isn't it.
Do you still have any plans to modify or convert your car to a different spec or have you settled into what you've got now?
renmure said:
Do you still have any plans to modify or convert your car to a different spec or have you settled into what you've got now?
It's interesting you know, the car is so much fun exactly as it is, I'm loathe to mess around too much. Even the colour. I've been dead set on Alitalia livery for so long I was determined to change it. But now, maybe not. Really just going to mess around at the edges; cooling, sharpen up throttle response, maybe stick on a few decals to break up the outline a bit. It also doesn't feel underpowered as it is, with what I guess is slightly south of 200bhp. Mind you, when I see your car in the flesh, I reserve the right to toss all of that straight in the bin and go all out!
C Lee Farquar said:
I also wonder if enhanced flow cools more as a default. As I understand it a radiator will cool X amount of water by Y degrees. If you increase the flow you will cool more water by less degrees. I believe the overall heat loss, within perimeters, would be the same.
Radiators rely on a difference in temperature between coolant and air. The average temperature of the coolant in the radiator is roughly halfway between inlet and outlet temps. If the coolant is being pumped through quickly the outlet temperature will be close to inlet temperature as there's not much time to dump the heat from it. If the coolant is moving slowly the outlet coolant temp will be significantly below inlet coolant temp so the average coolant temp will be less than for a higher coolant flow. The reduced differential between air and coolant will mean less heat is rejected to the air stream, so less cooling. It seems perverse, but a higher outlet temp normally means a more efficient cooling system.Another way to think of it is a small %age of heat from a lot of coolant vs a larger %age from a smaller volume, with the former being more efficient.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff