Mercedes 129 titivation
Discussion
Juicy new parts ready for the weekend. The spanners and fluid all arrived last week. What is in the foil sachet? I am quite looking forward to fitting these and it means I will have completely new rear brakes. The car is looking and driving well at the moment: dusted a Tesla this morning.
I’d love to drive one. I think it’s amazing what Tesla has achieved both in the vehicle itself and in driving the market. I find them very interesting (together with BMW’s i3 and 8).
I find the looks a bit insipid, although the interior is excellent. At least they are not stupidly aggressive in styling.
The materials and quality don’t really appeal (but that’s not confined to Tesla).
I suspect the range would be a problem for me given I like to do long journeys at quite high speed. If you’re going 600 miles today at 90 to 110 cruising speed, I suspect it’s not going to suit.
For most car users, they’re perfect.
Apart from the price!
I do like this:
I find the looks a bit insipid, although the interior is excellent. At least they are not stupidly aggressive in styling.
The materials and quality don’t really appeal (but that’s not confined to Tesla).
I suspect the range would be a problem for me given I like to do long journeys at quite high speed. If you’re going 600 miles today at 90 to 110 cruising speed, I suspect it’s not going to suit.
For most car users, they’re perfect.
Apart from the price!
I do like this:
alabbasi said:
You got the big brembo calipers for that cheap? That's a steal.
No, these are for the rears. Still a steal at £95 for the pair. I replaced the Brembos about 12 years ago and they weren't cheap then. Had them rebuilt about three years ago. They're great brakes.I enjoyed—and agreed with—much of your Tesla thoughts.
Got the new rear calipers installed today. This was a painless job to my surprise. Wheel off. Clamp brake hose. Loosen the brake hose with my new spanner (14mm). Remove the cable clip/brake pad wear sensor holder (10mm). Loosen caliper mounting bolts x2 (16mm). Remove pads and accessories. Remove caliper. Unscrew from brake hose. Installation the reverse of removal. I did find my brake hoses were ever-so-slightly twisted upon reinstallation. Any thoughts on how to avoid this? My boy helped me bleed the brakes: bit of plastic tube on the nipple, pump then hold the pedal, open the nipple, wait until the bubbles stop, tighten the nipple, top up the level. I ran about 300mm of fluid through in total. This gives me much more confidence that I can do brakes now...
The answer is, easy-ish.
Rather irritatingly, my new set of flared wrenches didn't have the necessary 11mm wrench but I decided to risk it with a standard wrench. The MB fittings are quite nice. The flexis have a locking key to the mounting point which prevents them twisting and obviates any need for a counterhold. I cleaned up the 11mm nuts on the ends of the hardlines and gave them a good soak with Plus-Gas. Then ever-so gently I worked the loose. I was worried about twisting the hardline, so went back-and-forth a few times but they were fine.
After re-assembling sans-twist, Boy One and I bled the brakes again. Over the weekend I have run approximately a litre through the brakes and the fluid is lovely and clean at the back. I can't really be chewed to do the fronts but might get round to it. Then all the fluid will be new.
This is the union between the hardline and the flexi:
Bleeding the brakes:
Replenished reservoir:
Engine bay doesn't look bad for 287,000miles:
Rather irritatingly, my new set of flared wrenches didn't have the necessary 11mm wrench but I decided to risk it with a standard wrench. The MB fittings are quite nice. The flexis have a locking key to the mounting point which prevents them twisting and obviates any need for a counterhold. I cleaned up the 11mm nuts on the ends of the hardlines and gave them a good soak with Plus-Gas. Then ever-so gently I worked the loose. I was worried about twisting the hardline, so went back-and-forth a few times but they were fine.
After re-assembling sans-twist, Boy One and I bled the brakes again. Over the weekend I have run approximately a litre through the brakes and the fluid is lovely and clean at the back. I can't really be chewed to do the fronts but might get round to it. Then all the fluid will be new.
This is the union between the hardline and the flexi:
Bleeding the brakes:
Replenished reservoir:
Engine bay doesn't look bad for 287,000miles:
The Brembos are standard fit on post-06/98 cars. Only the front calipers are different, the rears are the same ATE set up as before. The fronts are a 4 piston mono-block arrangement with 334mm discs. I haven't much experience of an earlier car so can't really offer a comparison. My car has a long, soft brake pedal feel but pretty convincing retardation; certainly the brakes will pull the car down from very high speed in short order without any trace of fade.
Torque settings. The caliper bolts are 85Nm from memory; not sure about the others (disc stay bolt, wear sensor mounting bolt, nipple). I just use "Terry's Torque Wrench", tight enough, as you say, bloody tight in the case of the caliper mounting bolts.
I found these pictures from the week I first acquired the car. The first one was 15 March 2003, the second a week later. It's amazing to think I have had it 17 years: since I was 26 years old!
Edit: EuroCarParts accepted the surcharge calipers over the counter without question. So that worked out well. Total price for new rear calipers, discs, pads, accessories, fluid and an oil 'n' filter change is less than £250. I wonder what the main dealer would have wanted.
Torque settings. The caliper bolts are 85Nm from memory; not sure about the others (disc stay bolt, wear sensor mounting bolt, nipple). I just use "Terry's Torque Wrench", tight enough, as you say, bloody tight in the case of the caliper mounting bolts.
I found these pictures from the week I first acquired the car. The first one was 15 March 2003, the second a week later. It's amazing to think I have had it 17 years: since I was 26 years old!
Edit: EuroCarParts accepted the surcharge calipers over the counter without question. So that worked out well. Total price for new rear calipers, discs, pads, accessories, fluid and an oil 'n' filter change is less than £250. I wonder what the main dealer would have wanted.
Edited by r129sl on Monday 11th May 15:40
When I dropped a wheel for the 124 in to the refurbishers, I asked them if they would shot blast and powder coat two spare but well-worn exhaust trims for the 129. These have been NLA for ages. On very early facelift cars like mine, they were a dark grey colour. On later cars they were stainless or chrome. I was confined to the selection of colours available for wheels but for £24 a piece, who cares. Anyway, I plumped for black chrome or shadow chrome or something. They've come out OK. I expect this one will only last the summer before going bubbly, especially as I broke the fresh paint when tightening up the bolt that holds it to the exhaust.
I need to get the wheels refurbished. I notice Lepsons, who have a fantastic reputation, are pretty reasonable price-wise, so I think I may go there instead of this local place which wanted almost twice as much.
I need to get the wheels refurbished. I notice Lepsons, who have a fantastic reputation, are pretty reasonable price-wise, so I think I may go there instead of this local place which wanted almost twice as much.
Lepsons charge £90 plus VAT a wheel (so £108). A bit less if you send them 4. The local place I went to is the Wheel Specialist in Newcastle (obviously it is a total ball ache couriering wheels to Kent and back) and they've charged me £150 for a single 15" diamond cut wheel. Which is a bit irritating as I can buy them for £110 but by the time they gave me the price it would have been too embarrassing to say no. Hey ho.
The attraction of Lepsons is the 12 month guarantee for diamond cut but I must say I am impressed by Exel's website (or whatever they are called). I've used SEM in the past but the guy is so grumpy and also doesn't like doing diamond cut finish. What I would really like is a set of the AMG 3-piece 17" alloys made by Oz, the ones with the 80s-cool dishes, but they're stupid money these days. And I'm guessing the finish on the outer rims wouldn't do well under my kind of use.
I did see a 129 looking great on a set of these w140 wheels, but I am guessing they would need spacers to fit properly:
Edit: I am intrigued by these. 17" 15 hole gullideckels. I love the idea but suspect they wouldn't look right. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17-wheel-set-for-Merced...
I did see a 129 looking great on a set of these w140 wheels, but I am guessing they would need spacers to fit properly:
Edit: I am intrigued by these. 17" 15 hole gullideckels. I love the idea but suspect they wouldn't look right. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17-wheel-set-for-Merced...
Edited by r129sl on Sunday 17th May 17:42
Driving home on Thursday afternoon I noticed a curious, intermittent ticking under load. I thought it was something caught in a wheel but could find nothing and so ignored it. Driving home on Friday, five miles from home, the power steering failed. But the ticking stopped. Ah ha. Serpentine belt. Sure enough, when I arrived home and popped the bonnet there was a bit of bootlace and a lot of fluff. And the water was boiling like hell.
New belt from Amazon, £19.75:
Fitting it was a bit of a challenge. There is not much room at the front of the motor. This is the route.
First put the belt over everything except the alternator and the top idler pulley. Then use an E10 (female Torx, 10mm) socket on the end of a breaker bar to move the tensioner pulley: turn anti-clockwise. Slip the belt onto the alternator pulley. Then, if the belt is perfectly seated on all the other pulleys, pull the tensioner pulley as far as possible anti-clockwise and prise the belt over the idler pulley being very careful with your fingers.
This is the tensioner:
With breaker bar attached:
I removed the radiator top hose to make access easier. Inevitably a hose clip fell down the bottom onto the under tray meaning I had to grub around on the floor loosening the front of the under tray to fish it out.
The bottom of the engine is filthy due to the persistent oil leak from the oil filter housing. The underbonnet area needs a proper clean to get rind of the remains of the old belt which was smacked up into 100,000 pieces. However, this can wait. Access for cleaning may be easier in a week or two. I have given Baister the go ahead to install a m113.980 out of an E55 AMG in there. With a gentle re-map, that should be good for 375bhp. Which I reckon is 100bhp more than my motor is giving at the moment. De-restricted (I have already figured this out) it should be good for 180mph.
Up above, I ruminated on new wheels. I have decided simply to send off five of my spare Sador wheels to Lepsons for a proper diamond cut refurb.
Later in the year, if ever we get over this Covid nonsense, the boy and I will drive over to Stuttgart and I will have a new hood fitted by KHM.
And all will be well for five minutes.
New belt from Amazon, £19.75:
Fitting it was a bit of a challenge. There is not much room at the front of the motor. This is the route.
First put the belt over everything except the alternator and the top idler pulley. Then use an E10 (female Torx, 10mm) socket on the end of a breaker bar to move the tensioner pulley: turn anti-clockwise. Slip the belt onto the alternator pulley. Then, if the belt is perfectly seated on all the other pulleys, pull the tensioner pulley as far as possible anti-clockwise and prise the belt over the idler pulley being very careful with your fingers.
This is the tensioner:
With breaker bar attached:
I removed the radiator top hose to make access easier. Inevitably a hose clip fell down the bottom onto the under tray meaning I had to grub around on the floor loosening the front of the under tray to fish it out.
The bottom of the engine is filthy due to the persistent oil leak from the oil filter housing. The underbonnet area needs a proper clean to get rind of the remains of the old belt which was smacked up into 100,000 pieces. However, this can wait. Access for cleaning may be easier in a week or two. I have given Baister the go ahead to install a m113.980 out of an E55 AMG in there. With a gentle re-map, that should be good for 375bhp. Which I reckon is 100bhp more than my motor is giving at the moment. De-restricted (I have already figured this out) it should be good for 180mph.
Up above, I ruminated on new wheels. I have decided simply to send off five of my spare Sador wheels to Lepsons for a proper diamond cut refurb.
Later in the year, if ever we get over this Covid nonsense, the boy and I will drive over to Stuttgart and I will have a new hood fitted by KHM.
And all will be well for five minutes.
The engine swap is an in-and-out job, they are identical in every respect except stroke and camshafts. All mounts, mechanical connections, fluid connections and electrical connections are interchangeable as between a w208/w210 55 AMG engine and my 5.0litre job. If you get the engine from a 209 CLK, 220 S-Class, 215 CL-Class or 164 ML Class, you need to swap various other bits and bobs, the throttle body and inlet manifold on the top, the oil pump and oil sump on the bottom and possibly the timing case in the middle. Even that is not the end of the world.
The 209 CLK engine is most powerful with 367bhp; it has a higher compression ration (11.0:1 compared to 10.5:1 on the other 55 engines and 10.0:1 on mine) and even faster cams. But we're splitting hairs; the least powerful 55 engine is 347bhp (ML) and most of them are 354bhp. Torque is where it is at with this motor, anyway. My car should put out 339lb/ft torque (460Nm); most of the 55 engines generate 390lb/ft torque. As I say, I suspect my car is a little down on output due to wear. You can run the 55 engine on my 500's ECU without problems but, obviously, it makes sense to change the map to that of the 55 engine. And if you're doing that, you might as well optimise the map, which supposedly brings 20bhp and 30lb/ft torque.
So stage 1 is the motor and stage 2 the ECU map. I have a stage 3 in mind which is to fit a faster rear end from a w210 E430 or E55 AMG. My car runs 1:2.65, those cars run 1:2.87, not enough to ruin high speed refinement but enough to give a bit more pick up. My E430 was faster than my SL500, the combination of slightly less weight and the faster rear end outweighing the nominal 30bhp power deficit. The diff is not a straight swap and a measure of rebuilding would be required; also you need to swap (or reprogram) the transmission control unit to avoid a discrepancy between the input and output speed sensors on the transmission. I think a 375bhp and 410lb/ft motor will be fast but through a faster rear end it should be able to hold its own convincingly against more modern machinery, most of which is turbocharged and lairy rather than gloriously NA and refined.
Why KHM and not D-Class? My research over the years suggests that KHM makes the best product. They fitted a hood to a friend's r107 and it is perfect. Also, I'd rather drive to Stuttgart than north London. I could have D-Class fit a KHM hood but to be honest the thought of driving the car down there is a ball ache.
The 209 CLK engine is most powerful with 367bhp; it has a higher compression ration (11.0:1 compared to 10.5:1 on the other 55 engines and 10.0:1 on mine) and even faster cams. But we're splitting hairs; the least powerful 55 engine is 347bhp (ML) and most of them are 354bhp. Torque is where it is at with this motor, anyway. My car should put out 339lb/ft torque (460Nm); most of the 55 engines generate 390lb/ft torque. As I say, I suspect my car is a little down on output due to wear. You can run the 55 engine on my 500's ECU without problems but, obviously, it makes sense to change the map to that of the 55 engine. And if you're doing that, you might as well optimise the map, which supposedly brings 20bhp and 30lb/ft torque.
So stage 1 is the motor and stage 2 the ECU map. I have a stage 3 in mind which is to fit a faster rear end from a w210 E430 or E55 AMG. My car runs 1:2.65, those cars run 1:2.87, not enough to ruin high speed refinement but enough to give a bit more pick up. My E430 was faster than my SL500, the combination of slightly less weight and the faster rear end outweighing the nominal 30bhp power deficit. The diff is not a straight swap and a measure of rebuilding would be required; also you need to swap (or reprogram) the transmission control unit to avoid a discrepancy between the input and output speed sensors on the transmission. I think a 375bhp and 410lb/ft motor will be fast but through a faster rear end it should be able to hold its own convincingly against more modern machinery, most of which is turbocharged and lairy rather than gloriously NA and refined.
Why KHM and not D-Class? My research over the years suggests that KHM makes the best product. They fitted a hood to a friend's r107 and it is perfect. Also, I'd rather drive to Stuttgart than north London. I could have D-Class fit a KHM hood but to be honest the thought of driving the car down there is a ball ache.
Hereward said:
I think there are some R129 SL55's if my memory serves? Super rare. Wonderful project.
I think there were 65 made, all LHD. I am pretty sure the number of 55s this is fewer than the number of SL73 AMGs: somewhere in the recesses of my sad car memory the number 85 suggests itself as the total number of 73s built, though I note RM Sotheby's claimed fewer than 50 when hawking this one last year: https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/lf19/london/lot...I definitely recall both cars being listed on the Mercedes AMG website way back in about 1999 or 2000.
Edit: from the big hardback book celebrating 45 years of AMG:
Edited by r129sl on Tuesday 30th June 21:01
I also found the AMG website circa 2000 on the Way Back Machine. The SL55 AMG and SL73 AMG are both listed under Automobiles > AMG Specials. The blurb provides no more information than that book up above although there are quite detailed technical specifications including confirmation that the 55 had the 1:2.82 rear axle
https://web.archive.org/web/20001102172041/http://...
https://web.archive.org/web/20001006112132/http://...
https://web.archive.org/web/20001102172041/http://...
https://web.archive.org/web/20001006112132/http://...
KHM is at www.cabrio.de
The Fabsil on the hood is still holding up well after almost a year. OK, for much of that period it was tucked up under the hardtop but for the last few months it has been taking the sun, the rain and the salt air.
I have arranged for five wheels to go to Lepsons to be refurbished. These are the best and worst of the lot. It will be interesting to see how they come back. I've asked for diamond cut finish.
No news yet on Baister's quest for a 55 engine. Has anyone any experience of the Bilstein B12 kit for these cars? Will it just ruin the ride and handling?
The Fabsil on the hood is still holding up well after almost a year. OK, for much of that period it was tucked up under the hardtop but for the last few months it has been taking the sun, the rain and the salt air.
I have arranged for five wheels to go to Lepsons to be refurbished. These are the best and worst of the lot. It will be interesting to see how they come back. I've asked for diamond cut finish.
No news yet on Baister's quest for a 55 engine. Has anyone any experience of the Bilstein B12 kit for these cars? Will it just ruin the ride and handling?
Lepsons. I called them on Wednesday, the pick up is Tuesday, they said 10 working days turn around. Too long, in my view, but I am away for a bit and have a million other things going on and anyway they are a spare set of wheels, so it actually suits. I just want the best possible job and Lepsons or the people recommended by Harry look the best.
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