2012 Ford Focus Titanium
Discussion
I did think of the wheel bearing, you could be right there.
I was travelling yesterday to visit my parents, and towards the end of the journey I could hear a light knock/tap coming from the front that disappeared when I touched the brakes, and wasn't audible at low speeds (oddly louder with the windows up). Annoyed was an understatement at the time, but just before we had arrived, both Maddie and I were certain that it wasn't coming from that side, and that it was coming from the other brake. We arrived before we could be sure, so I took it for a quick test drive half an hour after arriving on the same evening as it was on my mind, and it didn't make a single sound. We drove home late, it took over an hour, and it was silent the whole journey with no knocking or tapping at all. Now I'm completely confused. Not only is it inconsistent, I'm not even sure it's coming from the offending side anymore.
A while back when I first changed the pads/discs, I drove to Swansea which took about 1h15m, and about half an hour into the journey it made the same sound on the motorway; a knocking/tapping noise that wasn't audible at low speed. It sounded like the caliper was a bit loose, but it was the pad rattling inside the caliper. When I got home I pulled the inner pad out, bent the retaining clips out more so that they made a tighter fit into the piston, and pushed the pad back in with a more snug fit. I never heard that noise again... until last night. And now it sounds like it's the other side.
It could make sense. That O/S brake hasn't been touched since I originally installed the discs/pads as it hasn't caused any issues. It could just be that I need to bend the clips on that side to make it snug too, as I didn't originally do it on both, only the one. Why would I, the O/S wasn't making a sound until yesterday. But the fact that it's just happened now after sorting the brakes again? Bit of a coincidence. Nevertheless, if it is the O/S front then it'll just be those clips that need bending out. But if it's the N/S again, I'll need a new hub and bearing.
We've got a long drive to Cheltenham today to have a socially distant tour of a potential wedding venue. It's a 1h30m drive and I'm not sure I want to take the Focus now. I may just take the MX-5 to play it safe, or I could take the Focus as it didn't make a sound on the way home yesterday, but I also don't want it to knock the whole way there and back if I did take it.
I hate inconsistencies.
I was travelling yesterday to visit my parents, and towards the end of the journey I could hear a light knock/tap coming from the front that disappeared when I touched the brakes, and wasn't audible at low speeds (oddly louder with the windows up). Annoyed was an understatement at the time, but just before we had arrived, both Maddie and I were certain that it wasn't coming from that side, and that it was coming from the other brake. We arrived before we could be sure, so I took it for a quick test drive half an hour after arriving on the same evening as it was on my mind, and it didn't make a single sound. We drove home late, it took over an hour, and it was silent the whole journey with no knocking or tapping at all. Now I'm completely confused. Not only is it inconsistent, I'm not even sure it's coming from the offending side anymore.
A while back when I first changed the pads/discs, I drove to Swansea which took about 1h15m, and about half an hour into the journey it made the same sound on the motorway; a knocking/tapping noise that wasn't audible at low speed. It sounded like the caliper was a bit loose, but it was the pad rattling inside the caliper. When I got home I pulled the inner pad out, bent the retaining clips out more so that they made a tighter fit into the piston, and pushed the pad back in with a more snug fit. I never heard that noise again... until last night. And now it sounds like it's the other side.
It could make sense. That O/S brake hasn't been touched since I originally installed the discs/pads as it hasn't caused any issues. It could just be that I need to bend the clips on that side to make it snug too, as I didn't originally do it on both, only the one. Why would I, the O/S wasn't making a sound until yesterday. But the fact that it's just happened now after sorting the brakes again? Bit of a coincidence. Nevertheless, if it is the O/S front then it'll just be those clips that need bending out. But if it's the N/S again, I'll need a new hub and bearing.
We've got a long drive to Cheltenham today to have a socially distant tour of a potential wedding venue. It's a 1h30m drive and I'm not sure I want to take the Focus now. I may just take the MX-5 to play it safe, or I could take the Focus as it didn't make a sound on the way home yesterday, but I also don't want it to knock the whole way there and back if I did take it.
I hate inconsistencies.
Edited by geraintthomas on Saturday 5th December 12:07
Took it today for a long run, 3 hours in total. No noise there, but it started to squeak on the way home. Same as before. I think the hub/bearing may be bad. The caliper is also warmer than the other side, but not by much.
It could also be my tyres. I've had warped tyres on there for a while, haven't got round to fitting the new set that I have. I'm wondering if they're shaking the brake and causing the issues. It could also be a bad bearing/hub that's warped the tyre, but I won't know until I put the new tyre on.
Looking to fit them soon, will update then.
It could also be my tyres. I've had warped tyres on there for a while, haven't got round to fitting the new set that I have. I'm wondering if they're shaking the brake and causing the issues. It could also be a bad bearing/hub that's warped the tyre, but I won't know until I put the new tyre on.
Looking to fit them soon, will update then.
National Tyres turned me away, against company policy to bring my own tyres. Ridiculous. I'll be going to my usual place in the week, the only reason I went there is that it's the only place open on a Sunday.
Anyway, drove there and back and - pause for dramatic effect - I have vibrations under braking again. So we're back to square one. At this point I'm almost certain that it's the wheel bearing. If I turn right the tapping sometimes gets a little louder, the car has a sound that's similar to misshapen tyres (which I do have, but is also the sound of a bad bearing), and now this. It has to be.
£33 for a new bearing, and I'll have to have a garage to fit it. I'll ask them to throw the new tyres on while they're at it too, so it's all done and new. Hopefully the wobble is due to the bearing failing and not due to the disc being warped again. Only time will tell.
Anyway, drove there and back and - pause for dramatic effect - I have vibrations under braking again. So we're back to square one. At this point I'm almost certain that it's the wheel bearing. If I turn right the tapping sometimes gets a little louder, the car has a sound that's similar to misshapen tyres (which I do have, but is also the sound of a bad bearing), and now this. It has to be.
£33 for a new bearing, and I'll have to have a garage to fit it. I'll ask them to throw the new tyres on while they're at it too, so it's all done and new. Hopefully the wobble is due to the bearing failing and not due to the disc being warped again. Only time will tell.
After some extensive research, it's looking more and more like a bearing. The main sentence that popped up was:
"Wheel bearings allow the wheels to rotate while supporting the vehicle's weight. The brake rotor is connected to the wheel bearing hub assembly. A worn wheel bearing that has too much play will cause a vibration when braking."
The vibration doesn't happen throughout the whole brake pedal travel. Light or heavy pressure has no vibrations, but medium pressure gives an almost harmonic vibration through the wheel. There's a droning noise too, and the tapping noise gets more prominent as I turn a corner. This would also point to the bearing as the vehicles weight is on that corner. It's also come to my attention that the noise may not be from the brake, and may actually be from the bearing itself.
So after a caliper replacement, rebuild, new sliders, seals, discs and pads, and a clean wheel hub, it can't be anything else other than the bearing. It wouldn't be the hub that's warped as this is attached to the bearing. If there was any damage to be done (due to an impact), the weakest point is the bearing.
When I bought the car, there were scuffs on the front left of the car, as well as a badly curbed wheel (the same problematic corner). This is a stab in the dark but I wonder if the car had an impact on that side which has damaged the bearing, and therefore caused these issues. Who knows.
I've put two brand new tyres in the rear of the boot, along with the new bearing. I'll hand the car to a garage asap to ask them to fit the bearing and replace the tyres. There's absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work. But at this stage, I don't trust that it will. Here's hoping.
"Wheel bearings allow the wheels to rotate while supporting the vehicle's weight. The brake rotor is connected to the wheel bearing hub assembly. A worn wheel bearing that has too much play will cause a vibration when braking."
The vibration doesn't happen throughout the whole brake pedal travel. Light or heavy pressure has no vibrations, but medium pressure gives an almost harmonic vibration through the wheel. There's a droning noise too, and the tapping noise gets more prominent as I turn a corner. This would also point to the bearing as the vehicles weight is on that corner. It's also come to my attention that the noise may not be from the brake, and may actually be from the bearing itself.
So after a caliper replacement, rebuild, new sliders, seals, discs and pads, and a clean wheel hub, it can't be anything else other than the bearing. It wouldn't be the hub that's warped as this is attached to the bearing. If there was any damage to be done (due to an impact), the weakest point is the bearing.
When I bought the car, there were scuffs on the front left of the car, as well as a badly curbed wheel (the same problematic corner). This is a stab in the dark but I wonder if the car had an impact on that side which has damaged the bearing, and therefore caused these issues. Who knows.
I've put two brand new tyres in the rear of the boot, along with the new bearing. I'll hand the car to a garage asap to ask them to fit the bearing and replace the tyres. There's absolutely no reason why this wouldn't work. But at this stage, I don't trust that it will. Here's hoping.
geraintthomas said:
When I bought the car, there were scuffs on the front left of the car, as well as a badly curbed wheel (the same problematic corner). This is a stab in the dark but I wonder if the car had an impact on that side which has damaged the bearing, and therefore caused these issues. Who knows.
Hi,I managed to kill a front wheel bearing on the Focus mk3 I briefly owned, simply by losing control on ice and hitting the wheel at full lock parallel to the kerb. Impact was probably about 10mph, bending the track rod slightly and the bearing then deteriorated over the following 2,000 or so miles.
Thanks,
DickP said:
Hi,
I managed to kill a front wheel bearing on the Focus mk3 I briefly owned, simply by losing control on ice and hitting the wheel at full lock parallel to the kerb. Impact was probably about 10mph, bending the track rod slightly and the bearing then deteriorated over the following 2,000 or so miles.
Thanks,
Really! That's very interesting to know. Thanks for that, it certainly explains the scuffs, badly curbed alloy and the wheel bearing. Looks like it's making sense after all.I managed to kill a front wheel bearing on the Focus mk3 I briefly owned, simply by losing control on ice and hitting the wheel at full lock parallel to the kerb. Impact was probably about 10mph, bending the track rod slightly and the bearing then deteriorated over the following 2,000 or so miles.
Thanks,
The car is booked in Friday morning for a N/S/F bearing change, and I'll be putting two new tyres on the front tomorrow.
In the meantime, I've replaced my side light bulbs with LED variants.
I'll be replacing the puddle lights on the folding mirrors too with the same bulbs. I've also bought some Osram Cool Blue bulbs for the headlamps as they give a very crisp white light to match without diving into the HID realms. I've used these previously on my old car with really good results, they look far better than stock halogen.
In the meantime, I've replaced my side light bulbs with LED variants.
I'll be replacing the puddle lights on the folding mirrors too with the same bulbs. I've also bought some Osram Cool Blue bulbs for the headlamps as they give a very crisp white light to match without diving into the HID realms. I've used these previously on my old car with really good results, they look far better than stock halogen.
Had a chat with someone today who had a similar issue, turned out to be his driveshaft that was shot. I seriously hope it's not that.
The problem is that when I find and fix the problem, I won't know until I replace the disk as the wobble is most likely due to the problem warping the rotor. If I replace this front left hub, it may still wobble until I do. If I replace it and it's still wobbling, I'll have to look into the driveshaft and, again, put another disc on after that.
It's getting a bit tiring this.
The problem is that when I find and fix the problem, I won't know until I replace the disk as the wobble is most likely due to the problem warping the rotor. If I replace this front left hub, it may still wobble until I do. If I replace it and it's still wobbling, I'll have to look into the driveshaft and, again, put another disc on after that.
It's getting a bit tiring this.
I've started a thread on the Ford Owners Club, and have had some great information. It looks like it's most likely not the driveshaft or I'd be experiencing wobbles at all times. It also doesn't change the runout/angle of the disc to cause my issues when braking.
However, my car seems to use the following bearing/hub assembly:
The hub and bearing are one single part. Apparently, the hub can become warped if people overtighten or use torque settings that aren't correct for the wheel nuts, that can cause a wobble under braking. More than one person has said this, so it looks like this is the culprit.
I'll call the garage tomorrow to postpone my appointment as I need to find the best place to order the bearing from, and need to return my other one.
However, my car seems to use the following bearing/hub assembly:
The hub and bearing are one single part. Apparently, the hub can become warped if people overtighten or use torque settings that aren't correct for the wheel nuts, that can cause a wobble under braking. More than one person has said this, so it looks like this is the culprit.
I'll call the garage tomorrow to postpone my appointment as I need to find the best place to order the bearing from, and need to return my other one.
That's not a one piece bearing. That is a "pre-made" with the bearing already attached. I really do not understand how you can warp a hub flange by over tightening it. You would need some industrial strength machine to even attempt that. Likewise people suggesting a bad driveshaft causing the issues with your brakes rubbing. I would stay way clear of any advise from that forum if I was you.
BricktopST205 said:
That's not a one piece bearing. That is a "pre-made" with the bearing already attached. I really do not understand how you can warp a hub flange by over tightening it. You would need some industrial strength machine to even attempt that. Likewise people suggesting a bad driveshaft causing the issues with your brakes rubbing. I would stay way clear of any advise from that forum if I was you.
These were the posts:Ford Owners Club member said:
My guess would be bent hub tbh, is the hub integral with the bearing on these? Can't remember (I must be slipping!) but I'd change both if not.
Driveshaft can't change the angle of the wheel/hub so although it can cause a wobble through the car it won't cause your squealy pad issues.
Hubs can get bent by people using different torque settings on the nuts. People sometimes leave lockers a bit loose if they're starting to round but it's not a good idea.
Driveshaft can't change the angle of the wheel/hub so although it can cause a wobble through the car it won't cause your squealy pad issues.
Hubs can get bent by people using different torque settings on the nuts. People sometimes leave lockers a bit loose if they're starting to round but it's not a good idea.
Ford Owners Club member said:
The Focus MK3 uses a GEN2 wheel bearing.
On a GEN2 wheel bearing the wheel hub is an integral part of the bearing assembly. GEN2 wheel hubs need to be removed/installed using special tools. The GEN2 bearings that Ford uses have different dimensions from the GEN2 bearings that are used by most other car manufacturers. Most universal GEN2 removal/installer kits do not contain the correct size tools for the Ford GEN2 bearings.
These wheel hubs can easily become warped. For example by combining different types of wheel nuts (old design wheel nuts with new global wheel nuts) or by failing to apply the correct tightening torque to the wheel nuts. Whether the hubs are warped or not can easily be determined by measuring the runout of the hubs.
My local mechanic also told me that the hub can get warped, and it's been known to happen on these models. That's quite a few people with the same outcome for it to be false? I suppose it wouldn't be the initial tightening, but the rotational force over time that could cause it. Who knows. I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but I can't ignore the same outcome given by multiple people from multiple sources.On a GEN2 wheel bearing the wheel hub is an integral part of the bearing assembly. GEN2 wheel hubs need to be removed/installed using special tools. The GEN2 bearings that Ford uses have different dimensions from the GEN2 bearings that are used by most other car manufacturers. Most universal GEN2 removal/installer kits do not contain the correct size tools for the Ford GEN2 bearings.
These wheel hubs can easily become warped. For example by combining different types of wheel nuts (old design wheel nuts with new global wheel nuts) or by failing to apply the correct tightening torque to the wheel nuts. Whether the hubs are warped or not can easily be determined by measuring the runout of the hubs.
Either way, if I buy that part then the hub and bearing would be one piece, so I'm killing 2 birds with one stone. Hub or bearing, the fault will be fixed.
I doubt if the hubs are handed - I would try swapping them from left to right and see if the problem shifts from one side to the other.
You can probably swap the discs over too if you're worried about ruining another disc.
When you look a the thickness of that hub, and the small diameter - it's difficult to see how over tightening would warp that - I suspect the wheel would warp first (if either was possible...)
You can probably swap the discs over too if you're worried about ruining another disc.
When you look a the thickness of that hub, and the small diameter - it's difficult to see how over tightening would warp that - I suspect the wheel would warp first (if either was possible...)
TonyRPH said:
I doubt if the hubs are handed - I would try swapping them from left to right and see if the problem shifts from one side to the other.
You can probably swap the discs over too if you're worried about ruining another disc.
When you look a the thickness of that hub, and the small diameter - it's difficult to see how over tightening would warp that - I suspect the wheel would warp first (if either was possible...)
Then it's most likely the bearing causing play. Either way, replacing both will be sure to solve the issue.You can probably swap the discs over too if you're worried about ruining another disc.
When you look a the thickness of that hub, and the small diameter - it's difficult to see how over tightening would warp that - I suspect the wheel would warp first (if either was possible...)
I say that...
geraintthomas said:
The car is booked in Friday morning for a N/S/F bearing change, and I'll be putting two new tyres on the front tomorrow.
In the meantime, I've replaced my side light bulbs with LED variants.
I'll be replacing the puddle lights on the folding mirrors too with the same bulbs. I've also bought some Osram Cool Blue bulbs for the headlamps as they give a very crisp white light to match without diving into the HID realms. I've used these previously on my old car with really good results, they look far better than stock halogen.
Lights look nice, have you got links or product codes for the dipped, full beam and side lights in those nice white colours. I don't want to install HIDS in my Mk3 focus either. In the meantime, I've replaced my side light bulbs with LED variants.
I'll be replacing the puddle lights on the folding mirrors too with the same bulbs. I've also bought some Osram Cool Blue bulbs for the headlamps as they give a very crisp white light to match without diving into the HID realms. I've used these previously on my old car with really good results, they look far better than stock halogen.
AJ5641 said:
geraintthomas said:
The car is booked in Friday morning for a N/S/F bearing change, and I'll be putting two new tyres on the front tomorrow.
In the meantime, I've replaced my side light bulbs with LED variants.
I'll be replacing the puddle lights on the folding mirrors too with the same bulbs. I've also bought some Osram Cool Blue bulbs for the headlamps as they give a very crisp white light to match without diving into the HID realms. I've used these previously on my old car with really good results, they look far better than stock halogen.
Lights look nice, have you got links or product codes for the dipped, full beam and side lights in those nice white colours. I don't want to install HIDS in my Mk3 focus either. In the meantime, I've replaced my side light bulbs with LED variants.
I'll be replacing the puddle lights on the folding mirrors too with the same bulbs. I've also bought some Osram Cool Blue bulbs for the headlamps as they give a very crisp white light to match without diving into the HID realms. I've used these previously on my old car with really good results, they look far better than stock halogen.
I'd be interested in the sidelight bulbs too please, as we have C-max with puddle lights which would benefit from modernising
AJ5641 said:
Lights look nice, have you got links or product codes for the dipped, full beam and side lights in those nice white colours. I don't want to install HIDS in my Mk3 focus either.
I've not got any different full beams as they don't really need to be white - no one's going to see them so I'm never bothered.Side lights:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07D8RCW2H/ref...
Dipped beam:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XXGGQ8J/ref...
DickP said:
Hi geraintthomas,
I recommend considering a hub from a low mileage breaker if you can. May work out cheaper than the bearing plus garage time changing the bearing vs changing the hub.
Thanks,
Normally I would, but this issue has been going on long enough, and with word of hubs/bearings being easily damaged on these, there's no guarantee that a used one will be fine. If the issue had just started I'd buy used, but as it's been happening for months I just want it done with, so I'm buying new.I recommend considering a hub from a low mileage breaker if you can. May work out cheaper than the bearing plus garage time changing the bearing vs changing the hub.
Thanks,
Managed to get it from EuroCarParts for £70 from £120 due to trade discount as it wasn't on their website and was only on their Ebay store, so I couldn't honour the eternal sale that they have going. Nice of them to do that.
Not sure if the boot is big enough.
This should do the trick. Whether the hub is at fault, or the bearing is failed, this will make an easier job for the garage to fit and will kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The car is booked in tomorrow.
In the meantime, I can't give it to the garage looking like this...
Time to get cleaning!
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