89' Toyota GT-Four Lightweight
Discussion
not pics of the setup at the moment, will do next Friday though 
Good question on the size of the heat exchanger, the top mount is roughly the same dimensions as the ata setup that sits atop the engine and it also has a pre rad that sits behind (I recall?) the main radiator that is maybe half the size of the engine rad. If I'm wrong someone may correct me I know there's a few boys sculking around here from the GT4OC.
Being a 185 a2a 'fan' this will be my first foray into the charge cooler setup.
As a reference to how bad the a2a setup is I remember pulling into a petrol station off the motorway on a warm day, it sat there super heating the air for a few seconds and when pulling off and rejoining the M4 I was convinced the thing had blown the turbo hose off or something, the air was so warm going into the engine it must have been utilizing about 60hp
as I drove through the cooler air it picked up and returned to normal after quarter mile.
Pretty boring story but highlights how susceptible that setup is to engine temps and atmospheric conditions
Good question on the size of the heat exchanger, the top mount is roughly the same dimensions as the ata setup that sits atop the engine and it also has a pre rad that sits behind (I recall?) the main radiator that is maybe half the size of the engine rad. If I'm wrong someone may correct me I know there's a few boys sculking around here from the GT4OC.
Being a 185 a2a 'fan' this will be my first foray into the charge cooler setup.
As a reference to how bad the a2a setup is I remember pulling into a petrol station off the motorway on a warm day, it sat there super heating the air for a few seconds and when pulling off and rejoining the M4 I was convinced the thing had blown the turbo hose off or something, the air was so warm going into the engine it must have been utilizing about 60hp
as I drove through the cooler air it picked up and returned to normal after quarter mile.Pretty boring story but highlights how susceptible that setup is to engine temps and atmospheric conditions
Well, just footed for a whiteline rear adjustable arb which will stiffen the back end up; for junctions and roundabouts. a charge-cooler setup to keep the intake temps cool and consistent (really don't want to spend x on an engine rebuild and have it det) and a TTE 4 lamp rally pod to go on the CS fibreglass (will save bout 20kg off the front I think) bonnet!
But I may not be able to afford to drive it after this final expenditure
But I may not be able to afford to drive it after this final expenditure
non update.
Car should be ready this week, very early next week. Speaking to the builder I've opted to go for electric power steering also. This setup uses the motor from a... Peugeot 106 i think he said. He runs these on all his rally car builds as they get rid of the very heavy, 30 kg+ oe power steering setup, all the lines etc and the pump itself is replaced of course. Physically removing the pump frees up a lot of space at the back of the block next to the gearbox which in turn makes cam belt changes much quicker; saving on labour.
Another benefit is the pump as standard works off the engine rpms. I've experienced the downside of this myself as I'm sure most Celica owners have, as the revs drop the steering becomes very heavy; almost solid. This normally happens during a high spirited drive when you're going for another gear (normally during hard cornering) not the best time to lose your steering. The feedback is the electric system is slightly more weighted than standard also so increases feel and feedback, and that's good as standard so I'll look forward to that.
In summary
big weight saving
linear/weighted steering
engine bay tidy up with increased access to stuff
not expensive
In other news we were discussing other weight saving, the fiberglass bonnet will save about 20 kg, I'll need to factor in the heavier charge cooling system though and around 7 kg for the lamp pod. With the standard power steering gone overall it should be - lighter!
And then he mentioned the carbon single piece prop shafts he has made and shipped over from California. Another 60/70 kg saving. Might have to save up for one of those though
Pictures to follow this week when he starts ripping it apart
OH, It's first 'event' will be Rally Day @ Combe. Will be sat on the Lewis Rally Sport / GT4OC stand by Quarry
Car should be ready this week, very early next week. Speaking to the builder I've opted to go for electric power steering also. This setup uses the motor from a... Peugeot 106 i think he said. He runs these on all his rally car builds as they get rid of the very heavy, 30 kg+ oe power steering setup, all the lines etc and the pump itself is replaced of course. Physically removing the pump frees up a lot of space at the back of the block next to the gearbox which in turn makes cam belt changes much quicker; saving on labour.
Another benefit is the pump as standard works off the engine rpms. I've experienced the downside of this myself as I'm sure most Celica owners have, as the revs drop the steering becomes very heavy; almost solid. This normally happens during a high spirited drive when you're going for another gear (normally during hard cornering) not the best time to lose your steering. The feedback is the electric system is slightly more weighted than standard also so increases feel and feedback, and that's good as standard so I'll look forward to that.
In summary
big weight saving
linear/weighted steering
engine bay tidy up with increased access to stuff
not expensive
In other news we were discussing other weight saving, the fiberglass bonnet will save about 20 kg, I'll need to factor in the heavier charge cooling system though and around 7 kg for the lamp pod. With the standard power steering gone overall it should be - lighter!
And then he mentioned the carbon single piece prop shafts he has made and shipped over from California. Another 60/70 kg saving. Might have to save up for one of those though
Pictures to follow this week when he starts ripping it apart
OH, It's first 'event' will be Rally Day @ Combe. Will be sat on the Lewis Rally Sport / GT4OC stand by Quarry
Edited by squareflops on Sunday 30th June 19:27
Evo, I've had a response and am satisfied all is good.
To address this point though
Anyway; It's being pulled into the workshop very soon so should fingers crossed be with me in a short while
To address this point though
Evoluzione said:
You over bored and aren't fitting new pistons? 
it certainly has had new pistons, they look quite shiny to me Anyway; It's being pulled into the workshop very soon so should fingers crossed be with me in a short while
Evoluzione said:
As this section is a light hearted look into what people are doing with their cars and not a request for engine building critique or tips I'm saying nowt. 
couldn't have said it better I appreciate your comments; although the builder in question has been at this game for 30 years plus. I too have heard horror stories but until a rod exits stage left through the block I'll continue to have total faith in the work carried out.
Cheers Batty, hope you can make it and swing by, lets hope we have the weather with us.. It's a strange situation where you hope a perfect stranger can come and stare at your car and maybe say "oohh" isn't it, but a pleasant one all the same.
Evoluzione said:
If Rory Mcgrath maps it again it will be fine.
oh dear 
certainly a likeness!
I wish it was mappable. Having spoken around running it in, it's been decided that we'll stick the standard ECU back in for that. There's a a slight possibility that the Mines ECU (coupled with an AFM set to run too rich) may have been partly responsible for the damage caused i.e. over fueling causing bore wash and eventual shenanigans. If I'd known more when it was @ Vixpys RR I would have adjusted the AFM to lean it out slightly whilst the AFR was being monitored. The standard ECU will at least keep the engine safe and then; and then I'll be going for a Link Gx with wide band to remove the early 18th century tech currently looking after the fueling.
I've been in talks today about replacing the rear exhaust section with something more in keeping with the aesthetics of the car as it will be in a few days. The stainless jap can on there now won't really suit. We'll see..
Nice MR2 Batty
_Batty_ said:
Went a long time ago, but lived driving it (dare I say more than an MX5!)
shut up man do you want to get thrown out.._Batty_ said:
How does the Celica manage with rust? MR2's sills go, do you have the same problems?
I know of a few 185s and quite a lot of 205 that suffer with rust, on the 185s at least the sunroof models tend to suffer more as I think the drains that run down to the rear quarters get blocked and hold water then rust the quarters from the inside.Mine lived in a barn for 10 years and is garaged now so not too bad. It does have some rust on the front O/S arch but I'll get that sorted at some point.
Little update, I've gone for the rally-esque back box (have I typed this already??) and also some genuine TTE replica wing mirrors (always sounds weird saying genuine copies but by that I mean they are moulded from an original set of genuine TTE mirrors from a GRP A so as close to the real thing without being real) It was put to me that the original mirrors will look a little out of place with the other equipment on it and I instantly agreed (knowing I would curse my ugly cumbersome oe mirrors forever more if I didn't swap them over)
That's all for now..
I think authentic is a subjective term here; maybe even the wrong term. The Lightweight was produced to go rallying i.e. be pulled apart and built into something more purposeful. In this sense the car is in keeping with its purpose (I'm talking rather generally here as I don't tend to use it competitively) The box is by no means an untenable proposition for every day driving, regardless of its quirky nature that's exactly what I find interesting about it, it shifts through it's first 4 gears like nothing else I've driven and I'm more than happy to put up with the compromise (not that I see it as that, quite the opposite in fact) for the 'authentic' Lightweight experience.
Changing a box on one of these isn't a small job and and the work would be disproportionate to the gains; if any, based on your point of view.
The car won't be used every day, it's a toy and putting longer ratios in it would slow it down and change it into more of a tourer rather than point and shoot which is exactly what I want it for.
I see your point though.
Changing a box on one of these isn't a small job and and the work would be disproportionate to the gains; if any, based on your point of view.
The car won't be used every day, it's a toy and putting longer ratios in it would slow it down and change it into more of a tourer rather than point and shoot which is exactly what I want it for.
I see your point though.
Progress
LW started getting pulled apart this morning and will be worked on this week, with a possible return date of this Friday.
So the engines out (obviously) and will be inspected tomorrow to see what caused the miss-fire. Thew news was it all came apart relatively easily but a few mounts etc were pretty firm pointing towards this possibly being the first time the engines been out; inconsequential but an interesting note. The brakes will be going on in the next few days along with the suspension etc. The handbrake shoes are fubared so are being replaced along with rear cv boots and possibly rear arb drop links.
I would really love to be helping out on this but I'm over the moon that it's being worked on in earnest and that it'll be back shortly.
I should be receiving a few more shots of progress through out the week so I'll keep this updated
LW started getting pulled apart this morning and will be worked on this week, with a possible return date of this Friday.
So the engines out (obviously) and will be inspected tomorrow to see what caused the miss-fire. Thew news was it all came apart relatively easily but a few mounts etc were pretty firm pointing towards this possibly being the first time the engines been out; inconsequential but an interesting note. The brakes will be going on in the next few days along with the suspension etc. The handbrake shoes are fubared so are being replaced along with rear cv boots and possibly rear arb drop links.
I would really love to be helping out on this but I'm over the moon that it's being worked on in earnest and that it'll be back shortly.
I should be receiving a few more shots of progress through out the week so I'll keep this updated
Bit of an update..
As work has gone on there's been a few consumables (and not so consumables) that have needed replacing. The rear cv gaiters need replacing. I had "loads of nuts, bolts and brackets missing or snapped off the engine"
That doesn't altogether surprise me given the age of the car and the shoreness of the cheese of which the bolts etc were made.
My clutch wasn't worn out. It had however started slipping. The reason for this was the gearbox main oil seal had leaked and the bell housing was full of oil so the clutch was badly contaminated and replacing would have been required anyway.
The brake flexis at the front are too short for the new brake setup, bit of a pain but it means braided flexis will be made up so that's not a bad thing overall.
I think buy the time this is finished the gearbox will be the only part of the car not rebuilt
As work has gone on there's been a few consumables (and not so consumables) that have needed replacing. The rear cv gaiters need replacing. I had "loads of nuts, bolts and brackets missing or snapped off the engine"
That doesn't altogether surprise me given the age of the car and the shoreness of the cheese of which the bolts etc were made.
My clutch wasn't worn out. It had however started slipping. The reason for this was the gearbox main oil seal had leaked and the bell housing was full of oil
so the clutch was badly contaminated and replacing would have been required anyway.The brake flexis at the front are too short for the new brake setup, bit of a pain but it means braided flexis will be made up so that's not a bad thing overall.
I think buy the time this is finished the gearbox will be the only part of the car not rebuilt
Thought it best to go with new lines on the front so replaced the oem with braided items
and connected to
205 4 pots. A great sight for any 185 owner
The 185 brakes are pretty woeful and these are known for being very good.
And new FB CS bonnet painted in 040 and being finished off
There's some gearbox news too but will update a bit later
and connected to
205 4 pots. A great sight for any 185 owner
The 185 brakes are pretty woeful and these are known for being very good.
And new FB CS bonnet painted in 040 and being finished off
There's some gearbox news too but will update a bit later
Edited by squareflops on Saturday 10th August 15:06
cheers bud, I always imagine the MR2 turbo to feel quite a bit quicker than the 4; being half the weight and having no 4wd transmission loss!
Well; I've today arranged delivery of a low miles 205 (ST Toyota not Peugeot) to Worcester. There were complications with the E152F short ratio box so I've opted for a standard ratio box for now. It will improve driveability during the running in process (and generally). The Lightweight gearbox can sit in the workshop and I'll get it rebuilt when funds allow.
It will be strange having the LW back without it's defining feature but I'm looking forward to normal ratios for a while to be honest!
Engine will be mated to the box and in the car tomorrow, not much left to do after that..
Well; I've today arranged delivery of a low miles 205 (ST Toyota not Peugeot) to Worcester. There were complications with the E152F short ratio box so I've opted for a standard ratio box for now. It will improve driveability during the running in process (and generally). The Lightweight gearbox can sit in the workshop and I'll get it rebuilt when funds allow.
It will be strange having the LW back without it's defining feature but I'm looking forward to normal ratios for a while to be honest!
Engine will be mated to the box and in the car tomorrow, not much left to do after that..
All finished & home
I can't say enough good things about it. It's beautifully balanced, It's super smooth and produces great power during this run in process. It stops on a dime and I'm just in love.
Engine/box
Lots. pretty much full rebuild
new pistons & rings
reground crank & balanced with flywheel
ST205 HG I believe
Lots of head work to improve flow
new oil pump
new water pump
all new ancillary belts
air-con removal (why do people insist on calling it delete :confuse: )
charge cooler setup from a CS
Dump valve removal
Paddle clutch
205 gearbox.
Handling
New (dench) suspension adjusted to be slightly higher than standard
Not sure of the spring weights but the handling is superb and sehe'll handle a bit of rough/lanes when I'm in west Wales chasing rally traffic
28mm rear anti roll bar with new bushes front & rear
Brakes
205 front & rear calipers from the wasp with all discs machined to ensure they're true 8)
rear 205 discs / pagid pads
Lexis IS200 32mm discs up front with - Ferodo pads I believe? might be wrong
braided front lines
Body/Misc
TTE lamp pod (possibly my favorite asthetic feature)
TTE wing mirrors
Simonds? rally exhaust rear box with down swept tailpipe which compliments the car perfectly in sound and look
CS fiberglass bonnet
25/20mm spacers on the Roulettes which amend the 47ET offset. Got some O.Z. Chronos on the way for trackdays also
Electric/Hydraulic power steering conversion which is EPIC
slag flaps
Lots and lots of touches that we didn't even discuss but Warner saw fit to do as he takes pride in his work, above and beyond
Don't think I've forgotten anything..
Took these before I washed it when I got home (it did rain on the ay home afterall :lol: )
when home
power steering mod
new mirrors (there's one on the other side too)
and an awesome finishing touch, a genuine period TTE decal
I don't think the pics do it justice but you get the idea.. I wan't to pull the wheels off and get some shots of the brake setup too but that will come in a few days when Rally Day is sorted.
I can't say enough good things about it. It's beautifully balanced, It's super smooth and produces great power during this run in process. It stops on a dime and I'm just in love.
Engine/box
Lots. pretty much full rebuild
new pistons & rings
reground crank & balanced with flywheel
ST205 HG I believe
Lots of head work to improve flow
new oil pump
new water pump
all new ancillary belts
air-con removal (why do people insist on calling it delete :confuse: )
charge cooler setup from a CS
Dump valve removal
Paddle clutch
205 gearbox.
Handling
New (dench) suspension adjusted to be slightly higher than standard
Not sure of the spring weights but the handling is superb and sehe'll handle a bit of rough/lanes when I'm in west Wales chasing rally traffic
28mm rear anti roll bar with new bushes front & rear
Brakes
205 front & rear calipers from the wasp with all discs machined to ensure they're true 8)
rear 205 discs / pagid pads
Lexis IS200 32mm discs up front with - Ferodo pads I believe? might be wrong
braided front lines
Body/Misc
TTE lamp pod (possibly my favorite asthetic feature)
TTE wing mirrors
Simonds? rally exhaust rear box with down swept tailpipe which compliments the car perfectly in sound and look
CS fiberglass bonnet
25/20mm spacers on the Roulettes which amend the 47ET offset. Got some O.Z. Chronos on the way for trackdays also
Electric/Hydraulic power steering conversion which is EPIC
slag flaps
Lots and lots of touches that we didn't even discuss but Warner saw fit to do as he takes pride in his work, above and beyond
Don't think I've forgotten anything..
Took these before I washed it when I got home (it did rain on the ay home afterall :lol: )
when home
power steering mod
new mirrors (there's one on the other side too)
and an awesome finishing touch, a genuine period TTE decal
I don't think the pics do it justice but you get the idea.. I wan't to pull the wheels off and get some shots of the brake setup too but that will come in a few days when Rally Day is sorted.
Edited by squareflops on Thursday 19th September 23:07
ciaranthemurph said:
I love this car. Would much rather see the rallying of this era with a full grid rather than the current WRC.
I had this video when I was growing up and must have watched it about 100 times.
I was saying the same to the guys this very day; I much prefer this period. No doubt the new stuff is quicker but it doesn't have the sense of drama imo. I went out in a grp a tarmac spec 185 yesterday and it was visceral. A totally analogue experience. I had this video when I was growing up and must have watched it about 100 times.
I get my fix of that sort of thing from YouTube
TheLordJohn said:
You must be very happy with the car now.
I like if all apart from the lamp pod.
Enjoy it!
Cheers bud, I think the spots are my favorite feature but I can understand that I like if all apart from the lamp pod.
Enjoy it!
I'm absolutely over the moon.chuntington101 said:
Car looks stunning! That big vent in the bonnet will do much more for cooling the engine bay than the scoop ever would!
Do the lights still go up and down even with the pod on?
Cheers chunt. The motors in the headlights have been disconnected; you're indeed correct in thinking the lights can't go down with the pod on, the motors would just burn out. The pods removable but I loke it so much I doubt I'll remove it. I'll just have to put up with the higher coefficient Do the lights still go up and down even with the pod on?
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff