1999 Citroen Saxo VTR? The long and winding road....
Discussion
Spare tyre said:
Are you the fella who worked at ecp in millbronx?
If so we have spoken many times before, I’m the same age as you I think and weirdly have had pretty much the same range of ropey french motors at about the same time. Sure we had friends of friends of friends
Small world
Erm, yes, possibly. Worked there around 2004-2006. Should I be scared? If so we have spoken many times before, I’m the same age as you I think and weirdly have had pretty much the same range of ropey french motors at about the same time. Sure we had friends of friends of friends
Small world
Back on it last night. The job list grows by the day, so there's no time to waste; The engine needs to come out!
Next up, a good nose around. There are quite a few issues to look at, chief of which is preventing a future iron-oxide related disaster:
A fair bit of work to do there!
A lot of this is going to need to come off, too:
The steering makes this weird knocking noise occasionally, and I'm debating whether it's a worn rack or not. A few guys on the various Facebook pages seem to think the amount of play I have is normal, but being that changing that rack is about as tricky as it looks, I'm thinking about just renewing it anyway.
I removed the front section of the exhaust heat shield, and unearthed the main gear linkage:
One of the annoying noises that's been driving my wife up the wall recently is infact not me, but rather a buzzy gearlever. High revs = loud metallic vibration. Not good. There's a strange ball/socket arrangement on the bulkhead, where the end of the linkage has a socket, and a rotating......thing on the bulkhead has a ball. The ball is rubberised (plastic) and sits in the end of the main linkage:
The ball isn't quite spherical, and has four contact points which are slightly raised. The socket in which the ball sits is actually a pressing in the end of the linkage, and I can feel a slight wear ridge in there, so I think I'll try and make a new sleeve to press in there. The gear linkage was removed, thus:
There are also a couple of bushes in the bottom of the lever, which I'm going to renew.
Next up, a LOT of degreasing and cleaning!
Next up, a good nose around. There are quite a few issues to look at, chief of which is preventing a future iron-oxide related disaster:
A fair bit of work to do there!
A lot of this is going to need to come off, too:
The steering makes this weird knocking noise occasionally, and I'm debating whether it's a worn rack or not. A few guys on the various Facebook pages seem to think the amount of play I have is normal, but being that changing that rack is about as tricky as it looks, I'm thinking about just renewing it anyway.
I removed the front section of the exhaust heat shield, and unearthed the main gear linkage:
One of the annoying noises that's been driving my wife up the wall recently is infact not me, but rather a buzzy gearlever. High revs = loud metallic vibration. Not good. There's a strange ball/socket arrangement on the bulkhead, where the end of the linkage has a socket, and a rotating......thing on the bulkhead has a ball. The ball is rubberised (plastic) and sits in the end of the main linkage:
The ball isn't quite spherical, and has four contact points which are slightly raised. The socket in which the ball sits is actually a pressing in the end of the linkage, and I can feel a slight wear ridge in there, so I think I'll try and make a new sleeve to press in there. The gear linkage was removed, thus:
There are also a couple of bushes in the bottom of the lever, which I'm going to renew.
Next up, a LOT of degreasing and cleaning!
Hadn't realised it had been so long since I updated the Saxo's progress blog, and that in turn has made me realise that I've been working on this thing for about four months! And the best bit? Who forgot to SORN it.....?
Anyway, I'm off ill at the moment with a horrendous case of man-flu (honestly, my teeth are actually itching at the moment. I didn't even know that was a thing!) So what better time to poke aimlessly at a keyboard in a vain attempt to put something semi-coherent together regarding the progress of a little rusty French hatchback worth about as much as half of bottle of Pepsi, to a load of people I don't actually know!
We kick off where we left off, which was....well, you can see it just above! Engine's out, and I'm walking about under the car, sucking through my teeth. Time to put some wheels on it, and move it from the ramp over to a corner of the workshop where I can remove the suspension. Doing this on the ramp would be a bad idea, because then I wouldn't be able to remove it from the ramp!
On the move:
New (temporary) home:
It might seem odd to move a car from a versatile two-post ramp, and move it to axle stands on the floor, like some kind of driveway-chump, but there are two good reasons for this. Firstly, it's a working workshop, and the ramp is needed. I have (at this point) no idea how long this will all take, or how much metalwork will be needed, and I know from experience that if you assume it's not too bad, it almost certainly will be. Secondly, I have to crawl around in the footwells to unbolt the front wishbones, and I can't open the doors on the ramp (which is actually a massive pain in the arse at times!
So, car moved, raised up, and work begins. The first thing to do is those very wishbones, so access to the floor is gained by pulling back the cheap and nasty almost-plastic carpets (I love these cars really):
Further pokery will reveal some nuts:
Once those are undone, the wishbones are pretty simple to remove, along with the struts:
I'm in that difficult position of wanting to remove as little as possible, so that the job doesn't escalate into something huge, but contending with the fact that all the parts that are original have been on the car since the 25th September 1999, and as such aren't all in great shape. Anti-roll bar bushes were really soft:
The central steering joint had a bit of play, too. The steering is supposed to be great on Saxos/106s, but on this car it's been a bit woolly for a while, so I'm hoping that the renewal of all these parts will bring it back to life.
With the parts continuing to migrate from car to floor, it was pretty evident that I'd be doing a fair bit of rust remedial work:
Nearside front bumper mount was looking pretty sad. Quite a common occurrence, presumably as the nearside is the one that drives along the gutter, flicking up s
t into the arch. And, because it's the common side of issue, there are none left at dealers and specialists to replace it with. Great!
It wasn't just the arches where things looked sad. This bit of inner wing is normally concealed by the ECU:
Top of the chassis rail wasn't spare, either:
Which when poked a bit, turned into:
And that's before we even get to the arches....
Anyway, I'm off ill at the moment with a horrendous case of man-flu (honestly, my teeth are actually itching at the moment. I didn't even know that was a thing!) So what better time to poke aimlessly at a keyboard in a vain attempt to put something semi-coherent together regarding the progress of a little rusty French hatchback worth about as much as half of bottle of Pepsi, to a load of people I don't actually know!
We kick off where we left off, which was....well, you can see it just above! Engine's out, and I'm walking about under the car, sucking through my teeth. Time to put some wheels on it, and move it from the ramp over to a corner of the workshop where I can remove the suspension. Doing this on the ramp would be a bad idea, because then I wouldn't be able to remove it from the ramp!
On the move:
New (temporary) home:
It might seem odd to move a car from a versatile two-post ramp, and move it to axle stands on the floor, like some kind of driveway-chump, but there are two good reasons for this. Firstly, it's a working workshop, and the ramp is needed. I have (at this point) no idea how long this will all take, or how much metalwork will be needed, and I know from experience that if you assume it's not too bad, it almost certainly will be. Secondly, I have to crawl around in the footwells to unbolt the front wishbones, and I can't open the doors on the ramp (which is actually a massive pain in the arse at times!
So, car moved, raised up, and work begins. The first thing to do is those very wishbones, so access to the floor is gained by pulling back the cheap and nasty almost-plastic carpets (I love these cars really):
Further pokery will reveal some nuts:
Once those are undone, the wishbones are pretty simple to remove, along with the struts:
I'm in that difficult position of wanting to remove as little as possible, so that the job doesn't escalate into something huge, but contending with the fact that all the parts that are original have been on the car since the 25th September 1999, and as such aren't all in great shape. Anti-roll bar bushes were really soft:
The central steering joint had a bit of play, too. The steering is supposed to be great on Saxos/106s, but on this car it's been a bit woolly for a while, so I'm hoping that the renewal of all these parts will bring it back to life.
With the parts continuing to migrate from car to floor, it was pretty evident that I'd be doing a fair bit of rust remedial work:
Nearside front bumper mount was looking pretty sad. Quite a common occurrence, presumably as the nearside is the one that drives along the gutter, flicking up s
t into the arch. And, because it's the common side of issue, there are none left at dealers and specialists to replace it with. Great!It wasn't just the arches where things looked sad. This bit of inner wing is normally concealed by the ECU:
Top of the chassis rail wasn't spare, either:
Which when poked a bit, turned into:
And that's before we even get to the arches....
Better try and bring this up to date....again!
The arches revealed many horrors. More rusted metal was removed, and new metal installed:
Still a fair bit to do underneath, but my focus was to get the arches right at the front.
Nearside front bumper mount wasn't looking (or feeling) clever. Very weak, and partially detached. Might explain the dropped bumper before I took it apart!
Removed the mount, and shotblasted it:
I then made two odd-shaped pieces of tin, and welded them into the mount, before dressing it down to look something like an original one.
Oh yeah, I forgot to take a picture of that bit!
The more I inspected, the more I found. The problem with these Saxos is that it only takes a tiny opening in the underseal to get into trouble. You see a spec of rust, and then you managed to pull a scab off it about 50mm across! Nightmare!
This was all pretty depressing stuff, so I decided to play with some other bits for a while. Priorities evaluated, I decided to change the gearknob. I'd consulted my wife to see which knob she'd prefer (lolz), and she spotted the 106 GTi type, and reckoned it'd be ideal.
The genuine GTi ones were leather (most of them), but we found a cheap alternative on eBay. What's the worst that could happen?
The type she wanted:
What we received:
Oh, it gets better:
I mean, for the money (about a tenner) you can't moan if it turns out a bit crap. I decided to moan anyway, got my money back and threw it away. The seller didn't want it back!
Plan B, then! I'd explained to her that if she wanted an OE type, she was either in the realm of older PSA stuff, or newer stuff. A genuine original could have been sourced at Citroen, but she wasn't keen (they do feel a bit like they're made from a recycled lunchbox, in fairness).
So, I went rogue. I instructed her to trust me, and spent £30 on eBay on a used gearknob & pedal set from a Peugeot 206 CC. I knew this gearknob and the pedals, because they're the same as the ones in my C4 VTS. OE+, AND an upgrade. Swish!
A new insert was ordered, and pushed onto the gearlever until it broke. Another insert was ordered, and this time it was heated up before pressing it onto the lever:
Then the replacement gearknob was pressed onto the insert:
I'm well pleased with that. It's much weightier than the original, so it improves the feel of the throw a bit. I also think it looks pretty OE too, and because it's not plastic, it shouldn't crumble away like the old one.
The pedals will have to wait, but in the interim period, I managed to find some actual goldust!
Ready?
Sure?
I'm still giddy at the sight of them now!
Those, are Saxo Furio interior door handles. The Furio was the model I owned at the top of the page, and though the interior was full of cheap tat, the internal door handles were alloy. No other Saxo seemed to have this (I've seen very late VTS' with them, but don't know if they've been added in at a later date).
The Furio itself was produced from around 2000 (on a W reg) until around 2003 (on a 53 reg). Of all the Furios, the majority had the Westcoast interior, with multi-coloured seatbelts, yellow piping on awful cheap seats, and black plastic everywhere else.
Then the Furio received an update, and yet somehow got even cheaper and nastier. The seats were retrimmed in a much more subtle blue or red hue, with even cheaper plastic piping. The doorcards lost their upholstery completely, and in the cars with blue interiors (blue or white bodywork), they featured a dark blue carpet.
And then, from around late 2001 onwards, they randomly started receiving alloy internal door handles! Totally random!
The pull handle itself was taken from the 106 Quiksilver, and later the GTi. However, the plastic body the handle was in was unique to the Saxo, so it's not like PSA had boxes of these laying around as the number of 106 Quiksilvers being ordered fell by the day! Citroen actually had to specify these.
Ever since, they've been very difficult to find. Even by inputting my old Furio's VIN number into the Citroen parts lookup, only the black plastic handles are shown, as per every other Saxo. However, if you leave the VIN out, you can find the part number for the (now obsolete) alloy handles.
So, a couple of months back, I punched one of the numbers into Google (I used to check semi-regularly) and was amazed to see one listed on eBay, for £30! It was brand new, old stock. Bagged & tagged - the whole bit. I submitted a best offer of £25, waited a few hours, slapped myself really hard and just clicked 'buy it now'. Seriously.....I was haggling over a fiver!
That was the driver's door. For the passenger door, I assumed I'd have no such luck finding another, so I set about trying to keep finding a Furio in a breakers, or a 106 Quiksilver that I might be able to raid for parts, and then make some Saxo handles. No joy.
Then, one day a chap restoring some pretty rare VTS' (the massive threads on Detailing World forums) sent me a message, and said he'd seen one on eBay. I looked, and sure enough there it was. Brand new, in packet, for £30!! Totally different seller, but insane luck! Bought.
My missus thinks I'm pathetic. She's probably right, but I don't care. These are EVERYTHING to me now!
Now all I need to do is locate the alloy-buttoned handbrake lever from a very late 106 GTi or Quiksilver, and I've got the full set. I reckon that'll be a bit trickier!
Back to the rust, and the welding was nearly complete, for the engine bay at least. Things got carried away a bit! It turned out that all the sections comprising the monocoque were quite rusted. And that rust had managed to find its way into the seams, causing more than one of the spot welds to let go! Some of the welds in the inner wings were flapping free!
Because of this, I made the decision to seam weld the engine bay. One along the top edge, and one on the opposite side on the adjoining panels. Make two panels one, and eliminate the risks. Front end probably weighs a kg or two more now, and I suspect it's much stiffer, too, but it'll be a total arse if it ever gets into an accident. Sure it'll be stronger than it was before, but it'll also be a nightmare to split panels again!
So, with the engine bay welded up like a racecar, I applied some corrosion inhibitor first:
After which went on a coat of white 2k epoxy mastic:
Once that had set, it was time for epoxy primer, and the top coat of Quartz silver, with clear coat:
You'll notice the lower edge in yet another layer of primer, and also some modifications down by the wishbone mounts. I'd decided to strengthen this area, as I was concerned the shell had rusted so much in 20 years, that it needed all the help it could get to stay as stiff as possible (after all, lithe handling is one of the best things about a Saxo).
It won't win any concours events, but it'll do!
Next up was yet another coat of 2k epoxy mastic for the inners, this time in red (so if I see any bright white, I'll know I've missed a bit!) This coating went on THICK!
Finally, the whole lot was finished in silver, and the shell repairs were done....
....well, from the front doors forwards anyway.
The arches revealed many horrors. More rusted metal was removed, and new metal installed:
Still a fair bit to do underneath, but my focus was to get the arches right at the front.
Nearside front bumper mount wasn't looking (or feeling) clever. Very weak, and partially detached. Might explain the dropped bumper before I took it apart!
Removed the mount, and shotblasted it:
I then made two odd-shaped pieces of tin, and welded them into the mount, before dressing it down to look something like an original one.
Oh yeah, I forgot to take a picture of that bit!
The more I inspected, the more I found. The problem with these Saxos is that it only takes a tiny opening in the underseal to get into trouble. You see a spec of rust, and then you managed to pull a scab off it about 50mm across! Nightmare!
This was all pretty depressing stuff, so I decided to play with some other bits for a while. Priorities evaluated, I decided to change the gearknob. I'd consulted my wife to see which knob she'd prefer (lolz), and she spotted the 106 GTi type, and reckoned it'd be ideal.
The genuine GTi ones were leather (most of them), but we found a cheap alternative on eBay. What's the worst that could happen?
The type she wanted:
What we received:
Oh, it gets better:
I mean, for the money (about a tenner) you can't moan if it turns out a bit crap. I decided to moan anyway, got my money back and threw it away. The seller didn't want it back!
Plan B, then! I'd explained to her that if she wanted an OE type, she was either in the realm of older PSA stuff, or newer stuff. A genuine original could have been sourced at Citroen, but she wasn't keen (they do feel a bit like they're made from a recycled lunchbox, in fairness).
So, I went rogue. I instructed her to trust me, and spent £30 on eBay on a used gearknob & pedal set from a Peugeot 206 CC. I knew this gearknob and the pedals, because they're the same as the ones in my C4 VTS. OE+, AND an upgrade. Swish!
A new insert was ordered, and pushed onto the gearlever until it broke. Another insert was ordered, and this time it was heated up before pressing it onto the lever:
Then the replacement gearknob was pressed onto the insert:
I'm well pleased with that. It's much weightier than the original, so it improves the feel of the throw a bit. I also think it looks pretty OE too, and because it's not plastic, it shouldn't crumble away like the old one.
The pedals will have to wait, but in the interim period, I managed to find some actual goldust!
Ready?
Sure?
I'm still giddy at the sight of them now!
Those, are Saxo Furio interior door handles. The Furio was the model I owned at the top of the page, and though the interior was full of cheap tat, the internal door handles were alloy. No other Saxo seemed to have this (I've seen very late VTS' with them, but don't know if they've been added in at a later date).
The Furio itself was produced from around 2000 (on a W reg) until around 2003 (on a 53 reg). Of all the Furios, the majority had the Westcoast interior, with multi-coloured seatbelts, yellow piping on awful cheap seats, and black plastic everywhere else.
Then the Furio received an update, and yet somehow got even cheaper and nastier. The seats were retrimmed in a much more subtle blue or red hue, with even cheaper plastic piping. The doorcards lost their upholstery completely, and in the cars with blue interiors (blue or white bodywork), they featured a dark blue carpet.
And then, from around late 2001 onwards, they randomly started receiving alloy internal door handles! Totally random!
The pull handle itself was taken from the 106 Quiksilver, and later the GTi. However, the plastic body the handle was in was unique to the Saxo, so it's not like PSA had boxes of these laying around as the number of 106 Quiksilvers being ordered fell by the day! Citroen actually had to specify these.
Ever since, they've been very difficult to find. Even by inputting my old Furio's VIN number into the Citroen parts lookup, only the black plastic handles are shown, as per every other Saxo. However, if you leave the VIN out, you can find the part number for the (now obsolete) alloy handles.
So, a couple of months back, I punched one of the numbers into Google (I used to check semi-regularly) and was amazed to see one listed on eBay, for £30! It was brand new, old stock. Bagged & tagged - the whole bit. I submitted a best offer of £25, waited a few hours, slapped myself really hard and just clicked 'buy it now'. Seriously.....I was haggling over a fiver!
That was the driver's door. For the passenger door, I assumed I'd have no such luck finding another, so I set about trying to keep finding a Furio in a breakers, or a 106 Quiksilver that I might be able to raid for parts, and then make some Saxo handles. No joy.
Then, one day a chap restoring some pretty rare VTS' (the massive threads on Detailing World forums) sent me a message, and said he'd seen one on eBay. I looked, and sure enough there it was. Brand new, in packet, for £30!! Totally different seller, but insane luck! Bought.
My missus thinks I'm pathetic. She's probably right, but I don't care. These are EVERYTHING to me now!
Now all I need to do is locate the alloy-buttoned handbrake lever from a very late 106 GTi or Quiksilver, and I've got the full set. I reckon that'll be a bit trickier!
Back to the rust, and the welding was nearly complete, for the engine bay at least. Things got carried away a bit! It turned out that all the sections comprising the monocoque were quite rusted. And that rust had managed to find its way into the seams, causing more than one of the spot welds to let go! Some of the welds in the inner wings were flapping free!
Because of this, I made the decision to seam weld the engine bay. One along the top edge, and one on the opposite side on the adjoining panels. Make two panels one, and eliminate the risks. Front end probably weighs a kg or two more now, and I suspect it's much stiffer, too, but it'll be a total arse if it ever gets into an accident. Sure it'll be stronger than it was before, but it'll also be a nightmare to split panels again!
So, with the engine bay welded up like a racecar, I applied some corrosion inhibitor first:
After which went on a coat of white 2k epoxy mastic:
Once that had set, it was time for epoxy primer, and the top coat of Quartz silver, with clear coat:
You'll notice the lower edge in yet another layer of primer, and also some modifications down by the wishbone mounts. I'd decided to strengthen this area, as I was concerned the shell had rusted so much in 20 years, that it needed all the help it could get to stay as stiff as possible (after all, lithe handling is one of the best things about a Saxo).
It won't win any concours events, but it'll do!
Next up was yet another coat of 2k epoxy mastic for the inners, this time in red (so if I see any bright white, I'll know I've missed a bit!) This coating went on THICK!
Finally, the whole lot was finished in silver, and the shell repairs were done....
....well, from the front doors forwards anyway.
S100HP said:
You spent £60 on door handles? You pay yourself too much.
How much did you spend on your pushbike.......?AndrewGP said:
Me too, very interesting and I love reading threads like this. Front end looks great too, any plans to do the same working backwards?
Yes. The centre floor area needs a fair bit of TLC too, and then all the work I did at the back end a few years back needs looking at again as well! The rear axle is tired, and there's more rust on the inner sills. Luckily it's pretty easy to strip it all apart. That'll have to wait until the summer, though.Quags said:
Great thread, I have fond memories of my VTR.
I was in the SSC too! I had a supercharged VTR and went under the handle Well_blown_Robbo (yes I know
)
I remember your name Icey, I used to pretty much live on that forum and ran the SE LAMs.
I need to dig out some pictures of mine and my Max Power article
I remember you!I was in the SSC too! I had a supercharged VTR and went under the handle Well_blown_Robbo (yes I know
)I remember your name Icey, I used to pretty much live on that forum and ran the SE LAMs.
I need to dig out some pictures of mine and my Max Power article
As usual, I'm miles behind updating pretty much every thread I've been running! Except the BX 16v, on account of the fact I haven't seen it for a year.
Anyway, Saxo has progressed quite a lot, so as it's my lunchbreak I'll do my best to run backwards through the pics and remember what the hell I was doing that day!
Putting the bodywork to one side for a bit, there were other issues befitting a 115k mile old Saxo. There were clonks galore from the suspension and steering; the engine liked to randomly cut-out (thankfully not the timing belt snapping again)....oh, the timing belt needs changing (age, not mileage); clutch is HORRIBLE to use, so needs a better one; oil leaks from the rocker covers; intermittent power steering.....yeah, a fair bit.
So, attention turns to the engine, out for the first time since 2009:
In my haste to remove the horrible clutch from the engine which has blighted the car for so long, I decided to also have the flywheel refaced as I wanted a perfect clutch action the next time the car was driven. This meant removing the locating dowels the clutch cover sits on. Normally, these can be extracted using patience, a bit of heat and some mole grips.
Sadly, the Saxo doesn't do 'normally', so I had to drill a hole behind each of the three dowels, and some cheap punches were sacrificed to the gods of seized metals.
But, it worked:
The engine was then locked, so the old timing belt could be removed:
Sadly, I don't possess the correct belt tensioning tool for the TU5J4, and getting it right is critical to cam timing (not mentioned avoiding whining cambelts) so I had to improvise and take a reading!
But then I considered that when I fit the new belt, the engine might not be in exactly the same place:
That should give me a fighting chance of getting the belt right first time!
With the belt removed, I removed the camshaft retaining ladders, which bolt to the top of the head and (you guessed it), retain the camshafts. Citroen/Peugeot, in their infinite wisdom, used a bead of sealant to seal these, which are part of the oil pressure circuit. I also used a bead to seal these last time the cambelt snapped (lol), but my either my bead or my sealant wasn't up to snuff, and oil found its way out onto the exhaust manifold, along with the leaking rocker covers. This was one of the issues I needed to resolve.
I had a good idea where to begin, too. The various rocker cover and cam ladder leaks may well be caused by excess crankcase pressure, though thankfully not a result of borked piston rings. The culprit was closer to home:
That blaaaady pipe! On the J4 engine, the two rocker covers are separated, as opposed to one big cover. The crankcase needs a vacuum pulled on it so the resulting gases from leaked compression are evacuated, otherwise pressure builds up and gaskets (or stty beads of sealant) fail. The rear cover has a vacuum line to the throttle body, but the front cover doesn't. Instead, it has a link pipe, so it can share the vacuum from the rear cover. Sounds good, no?
Well, if that link pipe is leaking, you have a problem. You end up with no vacuum in the front cover, and excess pressure, and the rear cover loses the vacuum the throttle body is pulling due to the leaking pipe, so you also end up with excess pressure, albeit at least has somewhere to go.
And why would that pipe leak?
Ah yes. Because 21 year old spigot in 21 year old engine!
The man from Citroen was approached, and the man from Citroen laughed. So, make a new one, or repair this one, which had compressed and distorted. Erm....
So, a "special tool" was made. This "special tool" was inserted and "activated" in the spigot:
This made the spigot excited, and it got bigger:
The spigot was now a much better fit. In fact, to quote an appropriate phrase from the bible of the Saxo - Max Power magazine - it was "As tight as a nun's chuff."
With a bit of sealant added to make me feel better, it was 'persuaded' into position:
Now, if you think £60 for a pair of door handles on a Saxo worth about £62 (including the door handles) was a bit much, please don't bring yourself to enquire as to what I paid for the contents of this box. Just.....just don't.
In order to fit the contents of said box, I needed to locate the exhaust manifold:
And then I needed to enquire with the manifold as to whether it fancied yielding the five M6 fixings located on it:
It did not.
No matter: We have ways of making it yield:
Once all the existing bolts had been convinced to relieve themselves of redundant duty, new sentinels were deployed in their place, ready to receive the visiting contents from the box of expensiveness:
The lower bracket on the downpipe was also beefed up, as the existing old welds had fractured, and let go of what remained of the pipe. Some electricity and melted metal later, and strength was returned:
Then the postman arrived with a car parts delivery, all the way from Lithuania. Car parts are always great things to receive in the post! I remember the days where I would hit tuning sites such as Needforspeed or Demon Tweaks, rape my credit card and then eagerly await whatever tat I'd decided to bastardise my 1.4 shopping trolley with.
This time, the situation was a reversal, because this time the part was as close to OE as possible (the man from Citroen laughed at me again). A Bosal centre section, which proved impossible to locate in the UK, and at a reasonable £70 delivered. This, along with the OE tail silencer would contribute to a much reduced score on the Saxo vs. chav scum scale.
Still on a high from the prospect of the Saxo no longer sounding like....well, your average Saxo, I reassembled the engine bits that I'd removed:
The cam ladders were refitted with a new type of sealant, which I had higher hopes of success with, on account of it being orange.
I then took a phonecall, got discombobulated, and fitted the cams in the wrong positions, before laying the ladders over the top. Once the mistake was realised, I removed the ladders again, causing the sealant to go all st and wrong.
I decided to adopt an ancient hebrew state of unstress, known only to those wise enough as 'Owphuckett'. Cams were swapped, ladders chucked on top, and I prayed to the gods of ohphuckett that they'd smile down upon my worthless soul, just as they did when I didn't lap in the replacement valves ten years ago.
Before the new timing belt was fitted, I found the water pump (which was only fitted in 2009, covering about 10k miles (at a guess) since) had significant play in the shaft, so an unexpected delay once again became a matter of course.
It gave me an opportunity to pat myself on the back for converting it to waterless coolant, however. Normally, an alloy water pump in a cast iron housing results in a hammer and chisel being the necessary tools for removal, as per 2009. This time, however, the bolts were removed, and the assembly pretty much fell off into my hands! No rust, or scum in sight:
The new timing belt was fitted, as per mybodged precision methods, and the freshly refaced flywheel refitted.
The gods of ohphuckett once again received a call from me, this time pleading that the three small holes I'd drilled weren't enough to throw the flywheel out of balance, and thankfully, they were listening. However, either by negligence, or in an act of extreme trolling, they allowed me to make a fatal error at this point:
('Fatal', as in a bit dramatic and mincey, as opposed to something serious and/or tragic, and loss of life.)
Anyway, Saxo has progressed quite a lot, so as it's my lunchbreak I'll do my best to run backwards through the pics and remember what the hell I was doing that day!
Putting the bodywork to one side for a bit, there were other issues befitting a 115k mile old Saxo. There were clonks galore from the suspension and steering; the engine liked to randomly cut-out (thankfully not the timing belt snapping again)....oh, the timing belt needs changing (age, not mileage); clutch is HORRIBLE to use, so needs a better one; oil leaks from the rocker covers; intermittent power steering.....yeah, a fair bit.
So, attention turns to the engine, out for the first time since 2009:
In my haste to remove the horrible clutch from the engine which has blighted the car for so long, I decided to also have the flywheel refaced as I wanted a perfect clutch action the next time the car was driven. This meant removing the locating dowels the clutch cover sits on. Normally, these can be extracted using patience, a bit of heat and some mole grips.
Sadly, the Saxo doesn't do 'normally', so I had to drill a hole behind each of the three dowels, and some cheap punches were sacrificed to the gods of seized metals.
But, it worked:
The engine was then locked, so the old timing belt could be removed:
Sadly, I don't possess the correct belt tensioning tool for the TU5J4, and getting it right is critical to cam timing (not mentioned avoiding whining cambelts) so I had to improvise and take a reading!
But then I considered that when I fit the new belt, the engine might not be in exactly the same place:
That should give me a fighting chance of getting the belt right first time!
With the belt removed, I removed the camshaft retaining ladders, which bolt to the top of the head and (you guessed it), retain the camshafts. Citroen/Peugeot, in their infinite wisdom, used a bead of sealant to seal these, which are part of the oil pressure circuit. I also used a bead to seal these last time the cambelt snapped (lol), but my either my bead or my sealant wasn't up to snuff, and oil found its way out onto the exhaust manifold, along with the leaking rocker covers. This was one of the issues I needed to resolve.
I had a good idea where to begin, too. The various rocker cover and cam ladder leaks may well be caused by excess crankcase pressure, though thankfully not a result of borked piston rings. The culprit was closer to home:
That blaaaady pipe! On the J4 engine, the two rocker covers are separated, as opposed to one big cover. The crankcase needs a vacuum pulled on it so the resulting gases from leaked compression are evacuated, otherwise pressure builds up and gaskets (or s
tty beads of sealant) fail. The rear cover has a vacuum line to the throttle body, but the front cover doesn't. Instead, it has a link pipe, so it can share the vacuum from the rear cover. Sounds good, no?Well, if that link pipe is leaking, you have a problem. You end up with no vacuum in the front cover, and excess pressure, and the rear cover loses the vacuum the throttle body is pulling due to the leaking pipe, so you also end up with excess pressure, albeit at least has somewhere to go.
And why would that pipe leak?
Ah yes. Because 21 year old spigot in 21 year old engine!
The man from Citroen was approached, and the man from Citroen laughed. So, make a new one, or repair this one, which had compressed and distorted. Erm....
So, a "special tool" was made. This "special tool" was inserted and "activated" in the spigot:
This made the spigot excited, and it got bigger:
The spigot was now a much better fit. In fact, to quote an appropriate phrase from the bible of the Saxo - Max Power magazine - it was "As tight as a nun's chuff."
With a bit of sealant added to make me feel better, it was 'persuaded' into position:
Now, if you think £60 for a pair of door handles on a Saxo worth about £62 (including the door handles) was a bit much, please don't bring yourself to enquire as to what I paid for the contents of this box. Just.....just don't.
In order to fit the contents of said box, I needed to locate the exhaust manifold:
And then I needed to enquire with the manifold as to whether it fancied yielding the five M6 fixings located on it:
It did not.
No matter: We have ways of making it yield:
Once all the existing bolts had been convinced to relieve themselves of redundant duty, new sentinels were deployed in their place, ready to receive the visiting contents from the box of expensiveness:
The lower bracket on the downpipe was also beefed up, as the existing old welds had fractured, and let go of what remained of the pipe. Some electricity and melted metal later, and strength was returned:
Then the postman arrived with a car parts delivery, all the way from Lithuania. Car parts are always great things to receive in the post! I remember the days where I would hit tuning sites such as Needforspeed or Demon Tweaks, rape my credit card and then eagerly await whatever tat I'd decided to bastardise my 1.4 shopping trolley with.
This time, the situation was a reversal, because this time the part was as close to OE as possible (the man from Citroen laughed at me again). A Bosal centre section, which proved impossible to locate in the UK, and at a reasonable £70 delivered. This, along with the OE tail silencer would contribute to a much reduced score on the Saxo vs. chav scum scale.
Still on a high from the prospect of the Saxo no longer sounding like....well, your average Saxo, I reassembled the engine bits that I'd removed:
The cam ladders were refitted with a new type of sealant, which I had higher hopes of success with, on account of it being orange.
I then took a phonecall, got discombobulated, and fitted the cams in the wrong positions, before laying the ladders over the top. Once the mistake was realised, I removed the ladders again, causing the sealant to go all s
t and wrong.I decided to adopt an ancient hebrew state of unstress, known only to those wise enough as 'Owphuckett'. Cams were swapped, ladders chucked on top, and I prayed to the gods of ohphuckett that they'd smile down upon my worthless soul, just as they did when I didn't lap in the replacement valves ten years ago.
Before the new timing belt was fitted, I found the water pump (which was only fitted in 2009, covering about 10k miles (at a guess) since) had significant play in the shaft, so an unexpected delay once again became a matter of course.
It gave me an opportunity to pat myself on the back for converting it to waterless coolant, however. Normally, an alloy water pump in a cast iron housing results in a hammer and chisel being the necessary tools for removal, as per 2009. This time, however, the bolts were removed, and the assembly pretty much fell off into my hands! No rust, or scum in sight:
The new timing belt was fitted, as per my
The gods of ohphuckett once again received a call from me, this time pleading that the three small holes I'd drilled weren't enough to throw the flywheel out of balance, and thankfully, they were listening. However, either by negligence, or in an act of extreme trolling, they allowed me to make a fatal error at this point:
('Fatal', as in a bit dramatic and mincey, as opposed to something serious and/or tragic, and loss of life.)
OK, to pick it up (because I know you're all literally on the edge of your seats....)
With the engine back together, and slightly cleaner than it was before, I set about doing my best to make sure the clutch wasn't awful to use anymore. That involved basically changing as many components as the man from Citroen could find, one of which was the nose cone that the clutch release bearing slides along:
Old:
Removed:
New:
Piece of piss. It even came with a new input seal fitted, so it was the three bolts, and job done. I also changed the clutch release arm bushes, along with the driveshaft output seals:
I fitted the gearbox to the engine, and moved back to get the car sorted. I'd decided to renew the clutch cable, not because it was failing, but because it's such a prick to get to (even with no engine) that it just made sense. The original was nearly 20 years old, though I was sad to lose a genuine part, because I'm a geek.
So, it's OEM out, Motaquip in....
Oh, what's this?:
Could it really be....?!:
Well spank my ass and call me a milkfloat - it's a genuine cable! Makes sense, because Motaquip (as a brand) was PSA-owned until a couple of years ago, ergo any old French tat you need parts for, look up the Motaquip N.O.S. on eBay and the like first, because it's often the good st!
So, clutch control off to a flyer, attentions moved to the steering, which has been knocking, and clonking its nads off. There has also been this uneasy sense that there is a lot of play in the rack (or something), as any movement of the wheel left-to-right results in this dead response feeling before the steering reacts. It's especially bad over bumps, mid-corner.
I had a good look at the rack, and truth be told, there was very little play in it. I spoke to other Saxo/106 owners, and many confirmed this also have a small amount of play, but with no issue. With steering racks at £300 or so (more than the £30 I paid for the AX GT one!) I decided to pray to the gods of that crap I was going on about before (ohphuckett or something?) and hope the rack wasn't the problem. Changing the rack with the engine in-situ is almost a no-go with the 16v lump in there, as there's just such little access.
I elected to focus on everything else in the circuit. The top mounts were relatively new, so I left those, but the rack itself needed its gaiters renewing, and that meant removing the inner swivel joint (a double-ended balljoint that each tie rod attaches to), so this along with the track rod ends were ditched for new. In fact, the inner joint (a First Line part) came with the gaiters included. Here's the old:
Meanwhile, I wanted to switch all the suspension bushes for poly. I'd basically refreshed the entire front end on the AX GT I had, and the results were so brilliant that I wanted to replicate this with the Saxo, so I bought in everything Powerflex made for the Saxo (except the lower engine mount - didn't make that mistake again!)
This kit included the front wishbone rear bush, which is a D-shape affair that fastens underneath your feet. However, the Powerflex one allowed me to bore my wife to tears, because you'll notice the mounting hole is 10mm lower than in the original. This is intentional; Powerflex claim it substantially reduces pitch/dive under hard acceleration, and therefore torque steer, because it lowers the rear of the wishbone 10mm which helps deflect movement. Somehow, I'm still married...
It's not all great, however, because on the various Saxo pages I frequent, on Facebook there was a post (which I found having sifted through endless ste with terrible modifications, dumb questions and general bellendery) highlighting an issue with these bushes:
Looks like the supplied brackets aren't up to snuff! This isn't the result of a crash, or anything extreme like that. By all accounts a bump can do it!
So, I decided to modify them, to prevent this happening to me (or my wife, who will mostly be driving it):
All that remained was to remove the old bushes from the wishbones (which themselves were fine), and fit the new ones.
Removing the old ones was....involved. First I tried extraction by heat, studding and torque:
When that failed, I tried extraction by hole-saw:
And when that failed, I questioned my own sanity.
So finally, I tried extraction by grinder:
And because they now fitted in the press, extraction by pushing the fk out of it:
Removal of the rear ones was....well, just.....just don't:
Anyway, with the perfectly serviceable original bushes pointlessly removed, I was now able to dust the arms over with some pretty gloss black, and install the new bushes:
The other beauty of these bushes, other than improved steering feel, tighter cornering, lack of suspension knocks over bumps and the lifetime warranty, is the fact that they act as bearings; the inner tube isn't bonded to the bush:
Which means it'll freely move around, even when torqued up:
That's probably why they last much longer: They're not being twisted this way and that!
In the background, a good used lower strut brace makes an appearance:
So along with all the additional welding and strengthening, the lower brace should improve things further. That's the plan, anyway!
With the engine back together, and slightly cleaner than it was before, I set about doing my best to make sure the clutch wasn't awful to use anymore. That involved basically changing as many components as the man from Citroen could find, one of which was the nose cone that the clutch release bearing slides along:
Old:
Removed:
New:
Piece of piss. It even came with a new input seal fitted, so it was the three bolts, and job done. I also changed the clutch release arm bushes, along with the driveshaft output seals:
I fitted the gearbox to the engine, and moved back to get the car sorted. I'd decided to renew the clutch cable, not because it was failing, but because it's such a prick to get to (even with no engine) that it just made sense. The original was nearly 20 years old, though I was sad to lose a genuine part, because I'm a geek.
So, it's OEM out, Motaquip in....
Oh, what's this?:
Could it really be....?!:
Well spank my ass and call me a milkfloat - it's a genuine cable! Makes sense, because Motaquip (as a brand) was PSA-owned until a couple of years ago, ergo any old French tat you need parts for, look up the Motaquip N.O.S. on eBay and the like first, because it's often the good s
t!So, clutch control off to a flyer, attentions moved to the steering, which has been knocking, and clonking its nads off. There has also been this uneasy sense that there is a lot of play in the rack (or something), as any movement of the wheel left-to-right results in this dead response feeling before the steering reacts. It's especially bad over bumps, mid-corner.
I had a good look at the rack, and truth be told, there was very little play in it. I spoke to other Saxo/106 owners, and many confirmed this also have a small amount of play, but with no issue. With steering racks at £300 or so (more than the £30 I paid for the AX GT one!) I decided to pray to the gods of that crap I was going on about before (ohphuckett or something?) and hope the rack wasn't the problem. Changing the rack with the engine in-situ is almost a no-go with the 16v lump in there, as there's just such little access.
I elected to focus on everything else in the circuit. The top mounts were relatively new, so I left those, but the rack itself needed its gaiters renewing, and that meant removing the inner swivel joint (a double-ended balljoint that each tie rod attaches to), so this along with the track rod ends were ditched for new. In fact, the inner joint (a First Line part) came with the gaiters included. Here's the old:
Meanwhile, I wanted to switch all the suspension bushes for poly. I'd basically refreshed the entire front end on the AX GT I had, and the results were so brilliant that I wanted to replicate this with the Saxo, so I bought in everything Powerflex made for the Saxo (except the lower engine mount - didn't make that mistake again!)
This kit included the front wishbone rear bush, which is a D-shape affair that fastens underneath your feet. However, the Powerflex one allowed me to bore my wife to tears, because you'll notice the mounting hole is 10mm lower than in the original. This is intentional; Powerflex claim it substantially reduces pitch/dive under hard acceleration, and therefore torque steer, because it lowers the rear of the wishbone 10mm which helps deflect movement. Somehow, I'm still married...
It's not all great, however, because on the various Saxo pages I frequent, on Facebook there was a post (which I found having sifted through endless s
te with terrible modifications, dumb questions and general bellendery) highlighting an issue with these bushes:Looks like the supplied brackets aren't up to snuff! This isn't the result of a crash, or anything extreme like that. By all accounts a bump can do it!
So, I decided to modify them, to prevent this happening to me (or my wife, who will mostly be driving it):
All that remained was to remove the old bushes from the wishbones (which themselves were fine), and fit the new ones.
Removing the old ones was....involved. First I tried extraction by heat, studding and torque:
When that failed, I tried extraction by hole-saw:
And when that failed, I questioned my own sanity.
So finally, I tried extraction by grinder:
And because they now fitted in the press, extraction by pushing the f
k out of it:Removal of the rear ones was....well, just.....just don't:
Anyway, with the perfectly serviceable original bushes pointlessly removed, I was now able to dust the arms over with some pretty gloss black, and install the new bushes:
The other beauty of these bushes, other than improved steering feel, tighter cornering, lack of suspension knocks over bumps and the lifetime warranty, is the fact that they act as bearings; the inner tube isn't bonded to the bush:
Which means it'll freely move around, even when torqued up:
That's probably why they last much longer: They're not being twisted this way and that!
In the background, a good used lower strut brace makes an appearance:
So along with all the additional welding and strengthening, the lower brace should improve things further. That's the plan, anyway!
I'll try to update as much as I can here, but no guarantees I'll finish it!
So, the engine and gearbox are back together. I've fitted new dampers into the front struts, and cleaned/greased the top mount bearings. I desperately need to sharpen the steering up, and get rid of the play (and the big TWANG!!) that it emits each time I rotate the steering wheel.
Before I refit anything mechanical, the bulkhead lining needs to go back in. It's misshapen now, in the top right corner, as I accidentally made it go on fire.
It's OK, the man from Citroen will be able to get a new one. It's not like it's a 20 year old car or anyth......
So, I decided to fit new track rod ends, and a new inner tie rod joint. On the Saxo, there is this double-ended balljoint that sits in the centre of the rack, meaning that the tie rods and associated paraphernalia can be used on both left and right-hand drive cars. Money savings!
Here're the new joints:
With the drivetrain and wheels refitted, it was time to put the Saxo back down on the ground. Only problem was the jack that I used to raise it was now occupied elsewhere, and the remaining jacks didn't go high enough.
So, I could either fart around with blocks of wood to lift the little jack up, or I could be more enterprising...
And outside again for the first time it what feels like a very long time!
A quick renewal of more perishable items later:
Along with some home-brewed modifications to try and improve the gearshift (it's still quite loose, and vibraty)
Heatshrink and CV grease.....done!
Not all gearshift mods were home-brewed, though. Brand new bits!
To go in here:
And then....engine in!
It's all going so well! I can see no way where this could go pear-shaped. None!
OK, so the original 20 yr old catalytic converter wasn't hanging in there as gamely as I'd have liked, but I can hardly moan! Course, you can't buy these anymore, only aftermarket ones that don't fit.
So, being that it still functions perfectly....MIG time!
Yeah, yeah.....I know. In my defence, it's a rusty old bit of pipe, and it's rusty along the seams of the original weld. And I was in a hurry as the gas was running low. And I was late to go home. And....
It does a job, and the cat will live on, hole-free!
Before the exhaust, goes the anti-roll bar:
And with that, on goes the brand new old stock genuine VTR backbox, which will sound a little bit fruitier, as the VTS should have a larger silencer.
It's all great! Really good stuff. Couldn't ask for more. Then I decided to have a conversation with myself...
What's that?
Give the clutch a try?
Why? It's new! I changed it, because the old one felt so bad to use. It's because it's a cheapo one, with fewer sprung fingers. It's heavier, and there's less control.
Yeah, I changed it for the same brand I used on the AX, and that was lovely.
No, I didn't check it first. Why would I? AX....lovely. Remember?
Fine, OK, I'll try it out, just to satisfy your concerns. But it's a waste of time, as it's a decent, brand new clutch, with a new nose, and cable, and even some of the bushing. But I'll try it out, if it makes you happy.
Well, did you try it?
Did you?
*dials 999*
Hello? Police please! Yes, I think someone has assaulted themselves in a vehicle workshop. There's blood all over what appear to be piece of a small clutch kit, and someone has scrawled "DIE PRICK CLUTCH DIE" in blood on the windscreen of a Citroen Saxo. OK, I'll hold.
And so it seems my fatal error (cos I killed myself with a clutch, see) has made itself known.
I have, unwittingly, fitted exactly the same kind of clutch as the last one, and in a very nonchalant style, too.
Well, I'm not having it. It's not going to be driven if it doesn't drive right, so, following a quick shopping spree on eBay to find a Valeo item (the OEM supplier), I pulled the gearbox back off, because I didn't like the way the pedal felt:
The Valeo item rocked up, and...
...it's clear to see the differences:
That's bound to be the only mechanical drama, though. There won't be any other problems.
Smooth sailing from here!
So, the engine and gearbox are back together. I've fitted new dampers into the front struts, and cleaned/greased the top mount bearings. I desperately need to sharpen the steering up, and get rid of the play (and the big TWANG!!) that it emits each time I rotate the steering wheel.
Before I refit anything mechanical, the bulkhead lining needs to go back in. It's misshapen now, in the top right corner, as I accidentally made it go on fire.
It's OK, the man from Citroen will be able to get a new one. It's not like it's a 20 year old car or anyth......
So, I decided to fit new track rod ends, and a new inner tie rod joint. On the Saxo, there is this double-ended balljoint that sits in the centre of the rack, meaning that the tie rods and associated paraphernalia can be used on both left and right-hand drive cars. Money savings!
Here're the new joints:
With the drivetrain and wheels refitted, it was time to put the Saxo back down on the ground. Only problem was the jack that I used to raise it was now occupied elsewhere, and the remaining jacks didn't go high enough.
So, I could either fart around with blocks of wood to lift the little jack up, or I could be more enterprising...
And outside again for the first time it what feels like a very long time!
A quick renewal of more perishable items later:
Along with some home-brewed modifications to try and improve the gearshift (it's still quite loose, and vibraty)
Heatshrink and CV grease.....done!
Not all gearshift mods were home-brewed, though. Brand new bits!
To go in here:
And then....engine in!
It's all going so well! I can see no way where this could go pear-shaped. None!
OK, so the original 20 yr old catalytic converter wasn't hanging in there as gamely as I'd have liked, but I can hardly moan! Course, you can't buy these anymore, only aftermarket ones that don't fit.
So, being that it still functions perfectly....MIG time!
Yeah, yeah.....I know. In my defence, it's a rusty old bit of pipe, and it's rusty along the seams of the original weld. And I was in a hurry as the gas was running low. And I was late to go home. And....
It does a job, and the cat will live on, hole-free!
Before the exhaust, goes the anti-roll bar:
And with that, on goes the brand new old stock genuine VTR backbox, which will sound a little bit fruitier, as the VTS should have a larger silencer.
It's all great! Really good stuff. Couldn't ask for more. Then I decided to have a conversation with myself...
What's that?
Give the clutch a try?
Why? It's new! I changed it, because the old one felt so bad to use. It's because it's a cheapo one, with fewer sprung fingers. It's heavier, and there's less control.
Yeah, I changed it for the same brand I used on the AX, and that was lovely.
No, I didn't check it first. Why would I? AX....lovely. Remember?
Fine, OK, I'll try it out, just to satisfy your concerns. But it's a waste of time, as it's a decent, brand new clutch, with a new nose, and cable, and even some of the bushing. But I'll try it out, if it makes you happy.
Well, did you try it?
Did you?
*dials 999*
Hello? Police please! Yes, I think someone has assaulted themselves in a vehicle workshop. There's blood all over what appear to be piece of a small clutch kit, and someone has scrawled "DIE PRICK CLUTCH DIE" in blood on the windscreen of a Citroen Saxo. OK, I'll hold.
And so it seems my fatal error (cos I killed myself with a clutch, see) has made itself known.
I have, unwittingly, fitted exactly the same kind of clutch as the last one, and in a very nonchalant style, too.
Well, I'm not having it. It's not going to be driven if it doesn't drive right, so, following a quick shopping spree on eBay to find a Valeo item (the OEM supplier), I pulled the gearbox back off, because I didn't like the way the pedal felt:
The Valeo item rocked up, and...
...it's clear to see the differences:
That's bound to be the only mechanical drama, though. There won't be any other problems.
Smooth sailing from here!
Edited by Kitchski on Wednesday 10th July 15:22
We're cooking on gas again! The engine has a bunch of sprockets bolted to the end of it once more, and this time the method of disengaging them is smooth and satisfying, rather than st and sharp. Win.
On to another gripe; Oil leaks! I'd already blitzed round the engine hunting down areas that could cause a lack of vacuum on the crankcase (and therefore leakage), but attention also needed to be paid to the leaky joins themselves. The rocker covers of the TU5J4 in particular, are a right royal pain in the chuff! Cast in France's best alloys, they originally came with a rubber gasket fitted, from new.
However, in a typical display of French "fk you, we do it our way" ness, you can't buy or fit replacement gaskets. Your only option is to create a bead of sealant, and try to recreate a gasket of sorts. Or, you buy a brand new pair (because there are two, obviously) of rocker covers, complete with new gaskets attached. Man from Citroen, he say.....well, you get the idea with that.
Which ever sealant you use, and whatever procedure you concoct, the result is the same; It doesn't work. Oil goes on manifold > fumes go up nose > love for tinny little hatchback goes down drain.
PSA threw owners and dealerships alike a bone, in the form of the TU5JP4 rocker covers: Used on the later 110bhp and 125bhp versions of the DOHC TU lump that featured in such classics as the C3 XTR, and the Pluriel (and the C2 VTS; GT, and horrible VTR thing), in true modern-tat fashion these used plastic covers, with renewable gaskets.
It's now common to find older J4 cars running JP4 rocker covers, for the oily reasons above.
Then came Thermatec.....whoever they are.
I have to admit, at £30, I was surprised these weren't made from platinum, but even made of plastic (poly or nylon, or something) it still seemed a bargain if the alternative was more leaks.....if they work, that is.
t and sharp. Win.On to another gripe; Oil leaks! I'd already blitzed round the engine hunting down areas that could cause a lack of vacuum on the crankcase (and therefore leakage), but attention also needed to be paid to the leaky joins themselves. The rocker covers of the TU5J4 in particular, are a right royal pain in the chuff! Cast in France's best alloys, they originally came with a rubber gasket fitted, from new.
However, in a typical display of French "f
k you, we do it our way" ness, you can't buy or fit replacement gaskets. Your only option is to create a bead of sealant, and try to recreate a gasket of sorts. Or, you buy a brand new pair (because there are two, obviously) of rocker covers, complete with new gaskets attached. Man from Citroen, he say.....well, you get the idea with that.Which ever sealant you use, and whatever procedure you concoct, the result is the same; It doesn't work. Oil goes on manifold > fumes go up nose > love for tinny little hatchback goes down drain.
PSA threw owners and dealerships alike a bone, in the form of the TU5JP4 rocker covers: Used on the later 110bhp and 125bhp versions of the DOHC TU lump that featured in such classics as the C3 XTR, and the Pluriel (and the C2 VTS; GT, and horrible VTR thing), in true modern-tat fashion these used plastic covers, with renewable gaskets.
It's now common to find older J4 cars running JP4 rocker covers, for the oily reasons above.
Then came Thermatec.....whoever they are.
I have to admit, at £30, I was surprised these weren't made from platinum, but even made of plastic (poly or nylon, or something) it still seemed a bargain if the alternative was more leaks.....if they work, that is.
Managed to hit Submit, instead of Preview. I never cease to amaze myself.
Anyway, le gaskete:
This is great, because it means I get to retain the cast alloy covers (which we don't see enough of these days). The fact I painted them in bright red crackle paint a few years ago...well, another day.
The car slowly starts to dress itself...
Lows innit:
I have to admit, I enjoyed seeing it on the VTR rims again, but once the new headlamps were on, it really started to pay off:
One of the parts the man from Citroen actually say yes to:
£48 each....new arch liners. There was a time where I'd have punched myself for spending that on plastics! But how much long will they be available? And do Saxos rust so badly because all the plastic trim they use to protect them breaks off? Who knows? No, genuinely, who knows!? I don't!
Bit by bit, the once chavved (to an small extent in comparison with other Saxos, but any amount is risking it for a biscuit when it comes to social standing) continues its transformation into....well, what it was before it was transformed the first time.
Seeing it with the original reg back on was cool.
I'm a big advocate of making sure your wheel alignment is spot on. I don't have the equipment to do it properly, but I do have some roll-over gauges, just to give me a fighting chance of making it to the only place in the area I trust, about 20 miles away in Southampton!
I think I guessed it wrong, first time, as it broke the needle out of the gauge! After some minor tweaks, I had it near enough neutral, though, oddly, I sometimes found it read something different afterwards. Possibly the gauge, or the new tyres scrubbing in? Or an uneven floor? Or unusually high-gravitational energy under the workshop, like on Interstellar, only without a bookcase, or the McConaughey.
As usual, I think nothing of it, and move on. Nothing could be wrong there, could it?
And like that, the Saxo was outside! I mean, it wasn't finished, but it was outside. All the problems, like oil leaks; random stuttering/cutting out; woolly steering; guff clutch....it would all be mint. New. Precious.
Happy days! Right?
Anyway, le gaskete:
This is great, because it means I get to retain the cast alloy covers (which we don't see enough of these days). The fact I painted them in bright red crackle paint a few years ago...well, another day.
The car slowly starts to dress itself...
Lows innit:
I have to admit, I enjoyed seeing it on the VTR rims again, but once the new headlamps were on, it really started to pay off:
One of the parts the man from Citroen actually say yes to:
£48 each....new arch liners. There was a time where I'd have punched myself for spending that on plastics! But how much long will they be available? And do Saxos rust so badly because all the plastic trim they use to protect them breaks off? Who knows? No, genuinely, who knows!? I don't!
Bit by bit, the once chavved (to an small extent in comparison with other Saxos, but any amount is risking it for a biscuit when it comes to social standing) continues its transformation into....well, what it was before it was transformed the first time.
Seeing it with the original reg back on was cool.
I'm a big advocate of making sure your wheel alignment is spot on. I don't have the equipment to do it properly, but I do have some roll-over gauges, just to give me a fighting chance of making it to the only place in the area I trust, about 20 miles away in Southampton!
I think I guessed it wrong, first time, as it broke the needle out of the gauge! After some minor tweaks, I had it near enough neutral, though, oddly, I sometimes found it read something different afterwards. Possibly the gauge, or the new tyres scrubbing in? Or an uneven floor? Or unusually high-gravitational energy under the workshop, like on Interstellar, only without a bookcase, or the McConaughey.
As usual, I think nothing of it, and move on. Nothing could be wrong there, could it?
And like that, the Saxo was outside! I mean, it wasn't finished, but it was outside. All the problems, like oil leaks; random stuttering/cutting out; woolly steering; guff clutch....it would all be mint. New. Precious.
Happy days! Right?
Finally! I'm updating the Saxo thread!
So, I left it on another of my (now trademark) crap cliffhangers of anxiousness. Everything was going to be great with the Saxo now, right?
Wrong. Observe:
https://youtu.be/S80wHdknGhw
Yes, that's the brand new inner tie rod joint with copious amounts of play. I mean, seriously...what the actual fk?!
It then dawned on me that I may have already changed this joint. The one I removed may not have been as old as I thought after all, though it was quite likely ready for the skip. The car was "terrifying" (to quote my wife) to drive, and this joint was the cause. Imagine torque-steer, only all the time, regardless of throttle load; That's what it was like! It was as crap as you can imagine.
So, it was time to take it all back out....again:
This time, however, I was going to stop buying the factor parts, and go straight to the man from Citroen. This time - amazingly - he say yes! Citroen can still supply these joints! It had to come from France, but it was possible. Happy days.
Old ste out:
Old ste (top) laid alongside genuine new, not ste component (bottom). Middle component is another item I ordered from Autodoc (very useful site!), branded as SASIC. Googled them, turns out they're a French company, so I figure they're worth a punt too, as someone had to supply Citroen, right? If I've got a brand new genuine one, all I've got to do is match it up with the OEM part in the OEM branded packaging, and I'm cooking on gas!:
This proved not to be the case. Seemed a bit too good to be true, but it was outright bad when I learned that the SASIC one and the First Line one I removed, were indeed, the same part. Balls.
To be fair, I had already assumed Ruiville were the OEM, but those parts seemed unavailable everywhere I looked. I was determined not to be caught short again (paranoia had set in, with a degree of stubborness) so I also bought two more! One ABS unit, and a German one by Metzger. Neither matched the genuine part, either, although both are different from the First Line/SASIC item, so that's a bonus.
With the new part fitted, there was FINALLY a chance that the Saxo would feature knock-free, silent steering. A remote chance, sure, but a chance nonetheless.
With the car up on the ramp, I took the opportunity to relieve the engine of the mix of allsorts that I'd topped it up with (purely to get it going and flush all the dirt left from working on it out), renew the filter, and treat it to some decent stuff.
The stuff I went for was this:
What oil grade does the Saxo need? 10w40. Check.
Is it a hot hatch? Well, yeah, I guess. Check.
Seems ideal, doesn't it?! Well, it's actually very interesting stuff, this oil. You see, it has a strong ZDDP concentration, which means a thin film of zinc-based........stuff is coated over all the engine internals, including high-friction surfaces. Being that the Saxo 16v lump is a direct cam-on-lifter engine, that would benefit this. ZDDP-enriched oils are commonplace in the world of 20w50 and old school classics, but oldskool hot hatches? Not so much! In fact, I wrote a piece for the Citroen Car Club mag a while back, and in doing so researched all the other types available in 10w40 brew. Turns out there aren't many at all! Redline, is the only one that springs to mind.
So, it's perfect for the Saxo, right? Well, not quite. You see, ZDDP-rich oils and catalytic converters don't get along very well. They can co-exist, but that's about it. That's why modern oils don't have the ZDDP in, and though attempts have been made to replicate the benefits of it, nothing has worked so far. And, of course, modern engines are more efficient and create less heat & friction on their rotating internals anyway, so it's not as important as it once was.
However, the annual mileage on the Saxo, in my mind, negates the issues with the cat. It won't do many miles, because none of the journeys its used for are long ones. It's a bit like the additive for unleaded fuel in an old engine. Do you bother? Or do you just use it for 3000 miles a year, and decree that if the valve seats wear out, you'll just deal with it at that time, and have it converted? If it was 12,000 miles a year, or more, then sure, I can see the point, but for such low mileage, I think I'll just wait and see what happens, if anything, all the while knowing the engine itself is being looked after. To me that's the most important thing, as this engine sings, and runs so well I wouldn't want to risk it!
Anyway, after the oil geekery, I moved onto ways of slowing it down better. Here, I present my 99p set of genuine brake pads!:
OK, so there was carriage, but they genuinely ended on eBay at 99p, and I wasn't going to pass up on them for that! £7.99 carriage, though - still a bargain!
While on eBay, I started doing that thing where I see something, go all wide-eyed, and click 'Buy It Now'. That's how I ended up with a pair of seatbelt....guide....things, from a Peugeot 106 S2. The 106 tended to be a bit higher-spec than the pauper's Saxo; They had gas struts to lift the bonnet; Higher quality (lol) materials and trim in the cabin; Better speakers, and better quality exterior fittings, among other things.
Those other things included these...things:
Appreciate that I've taken a terrible image of what they actually are, but they're basically a guide which moves with the belt, but pulls it off your shoulder a bit. My wife always used to use a boy racer-type shoulder pad, not because Barry, but because comfort. Hopefully, this will negate that.
Bit by bit, it's becoming more like a 106
tbc...
So, I left it on another of my (now trademark) crap cliffhangers of anxiousness. Everything was going to be great with the Saxo now, right?
Wrong. Observe:
https://youtu.be/S80wHdknGhw
Yes, that's the brand new inner tie rod joint with copious amounts of play. I mean, seriously...what the actual f
k?!It then dawned on me that I may have already changed this joint. The one I removed may not have been as old as I thought after all, though it was quite likely ready for the skip. The car was "terrifying" (to quote my wife) to drive, and this joint was the cause. Imagine torque-steer, only all the time, regardless of throttle load; That's what it was like! It was as crap as you can imagine.
So, it was time to take it all back out....again:
This time, however, I was going to stop buying the factor parts, and go straight to the man from Citroen. This time - amazingly - he say yes! Citroen can still supply these joints! It had to come from France, but it was possible. Happy days.
Old s
te out:Old s
te (top) laid alongside genuine new, not ste component (bottom). Middle component is another item I ordered from Autodoc (very useful site!), branded as SASIC. Googled them, turns out they're a French company, so I figure they're worth a punt too, as someone had to supply Citroen, right? If I've got a brand new genuine one, all I've got to do is match it up with the OEM part in the OEM branded packaging, and I'm cooking on gas!:This proved not to be the case. Seemed a bit too good to be true, but it was outright bad when I learned that the SASIC one and the First Line one I removed, were indeed, the same part. Balls.
To be fair, I had already assumed Ruiville were the OEM, but those parts seemed unavailable everywhere I looked. I was determined not to be caught short again (paranoia had set in, with a degree of stubborness) so I also bought two more! One ABS unit, and a German one by Metzger. Neither matched the genuine part, either, although both are different from the First Line/SASIC item, so that's a bonus.
With the new part fitted, there was FINALLY a chance that the Saxo would feature knock-free, silent steering. A remote chance, sure, but a chance nonetheless.
With the car up on the ramp, I took the opportunity to relieve the engine of the mix of allsorts that I'd topped it up with (purely to get it going and flush all the dirt left from working on it out), renew the filter, and treat it to some decent stuff.
The stuff I went for was this:
What oil grade does the Saxo need? 10w40. Check.
Is it a hot hatch? Well, yeah, I guess. Check.
Seems ideal, doesn't it?! Well, it's actually very interesting stuff, this oil. You see, it has a strong ZDDP concentration, which means a thin film of zinc-based........stuff is coated over all the engine internals, including high-friction surfaces. Being that the Saxo 16v lump is a direct cam-on-lifter engine, that would benefit this. ZDDP-enriched oils are commonplace in the world of 20w50 and old school classics, but oldskool hot hatches? Not so much! In fact, I wrote a piece for the Citroen Car Club mag a while back, and in doing so researched all the other types available in 10w40 brew. Turns out there aren't many at all! Redline, is the only one that springs to mind.
So, it's perfect for the Saxo, right? Well, not quite. You see, ZDDP-rich oils and catalytic converters don't get along very well. They can co-exist, but that's about it. That's why modern oils don't have the ZDDP in, and though attempts have been made to replicate the benefits of it, nothing has worked so far. And, of course, modern engines are more efficient and create less heat & friction on their rotating internals anyway, so it's not as important as it once was.
However, the annual mileage on the Saxo, in my mind, negates the issues with the cat. It won't do many miles, because none of the journeys its used for are long ones. It's a bit like the additive for unleaded fuel in an old engine. Do you bother? Or do you just use it for 3000 miles a year, and decree that if the valve seats wear out, you'll just deal with it at that time, and have it converted? If it was 12,000 miles a year, or more, then sure, I can see the point, but for such low mileage, I think I'll just wait and see what happens, if anything, all the while knowing the engine itself is being looked after. To me that's the most important thing, as this engine sings, and runs so well I wouldn't want to risk it!
Anyway, after the oil geekery, I moved onto ways of slowing it down better. Here, I present my 99p set of genuine brake pads!:
OK, so there was carriage, but they genuinely ended on eBay at 99p, and I wasn't going to pass up on them for that! £7.99 carriage, though - still a bargain!
While on eBay, I started doing that thing where I see something, go all wide-eyed, and click 'Buy It Now'. That's how I ended up with a pair of seatbelt....guide....things, from a Peugeot 106 S2. The 106 tended to be a bit higher-spec than the pauper's Saxo; They had gas struts to lift the bonnet; Higher quality (lol) materials and trim in the cabin; Better speakers, and better quality exterior fittings, among other things.
Those other things included these...things:
Appreciate that I've taken a terrible image of what they actually are, but they're basically a guide which moves with the belt, but pulls it off your shoulder a bit. My wife always used to use a boy racer-type shoulder pad, not because Barry, but because comfort. Hopefully, this will negate that.
Bit by bit, it's becoming more like a 106
tbc...
For reasons that will become apparent, here's a last-minute dash across the line to (kinda) bring this up to date!
So, first up, here are some better pictures of the seatbelt bits I mentioned above, because as it turns out, I did take the effort to document them, I just didn't save them in the correct folder:
And also, just to proove I didn't buy an old box with Peugeot logos printed all over it...
And another image of the Saxo being used to help out another stricten silver machine:
So, yeah. There we go. Lots of fun.
Anyway, the issues with the Saxo were being split into two chunks, on account of it still being a daily driver and all. Obviously last winter we had all the fun and games with the front end, but I knew there was more to come in the middle. Well, there's more to come again at the rear (rear end round 2), but that's scheduled for next year.
In the middle, we had things like damaged sills from monkey mechanics (not this one) jacking the car up in the wrong place, and the usual propensity for Saxos to do what they do best (rot, not lift-off oversteer).
This meant removal of much of the interior, otherwise I'd end up with fiery plastic mess, however first, I wanted to tackle the most pressing job of all; Fitting my OMFGsooooorarez alloy door handles!
My wife still thinks I'm completely crackpipe for spending £60 on these, but she is wrong.
They're a quick and simple part to change, and being that the doorcard needed to come off in order to address the rattles and ripped membranes, it was no big deal.
So, interior out:
Skirts off (which needed refixing to the car anyway):
I made some attempts to pull out the dents caused by jacks, placed by mechanics that were whack! (see me grime blud):
And then in areas that couldn't be repaired, I made replacement sections. This particular piece is most definitely NOT from a very rare JDM Mazda 323GT 4x4 sump pan that I cannibilised for parts. Nope.
(it's good metal, and apparently it's pretty worthless)
In the interests of time (which is now quite tight), there was various bits of welding and grinding and stuff. There are some braces I've made that go behind the front wheel arches, as originally these cars have a piece there known as the fake jacking point, on account of the fact many paper jack them up there, but they're actually floor stiffeners, which spread the load of the actual jacking point into the centre beams.
But yeah, loads of sparks later:
It's just covered in seam-sealer and weld-thru primer at the moment. It'll do until next year, when the rear axle has to come off and the whole thing can be properly painted.
While the interior was out, I noticed that the driver's seat mounts had fractured, which is pretty common, so they were welded up:
Then, before I refitted the carpet and seats, I went round with a little hammer, tapping at various bits of the shell. Anything that made a 'ting' sound (as opposed to a 'thump') received some Dodo mat (basically like Dynamat, only much cheaper).
the name of the game is to try and make the Saxo slightly more refined and user friendly. Things like VTS engine; stiffened shell; poly-bushing...they all make it more fun to drive, but this is no track car. This is a road car, so refinement plays its part, too. So, after the Dodo mat, I went in with a bit more sound insulation:
I then switched the steering wheel for a low mileage replacement from a 2002 car. A shame, as I like to keep original parts with cars, but the original was wrecked; Worn away, and has lost its grip on the wheel rim itself:
Something like a steering wheel is something you interface with a lot, so it can really affect the 'feel' of the car. New wheel on:
We also have a nicer seat! The bolster on the driver's side had been ripped and damaged for some time, so I managed to find a replacement semi-leather seat, and pull the cover off:
A bit of stitchwork later, and a hybrid cover of the original with the passenger side (up here for thinking) bolster of the newer seat. All I needed was some pictures....which I forgot. But the seat looks much better, you'll have to take me at my word!
All in all, the interior's really come together. We've got this 'OE+' vibe going on. There's a 206 GTi gearknob and pedals (all direct fit), the Furio alloy handles, a bit more refinement and a new steering wheel. This is good stuff.
And it didn't stop there! Saxo doors rattle sometimes, and don't make a pleasant sound when shutting. That'll be because of these plastic bushes:
Metal on plastic is OK, but metal on rusty metal? No good. So, it was a trip to Citroen again, and...
The doors almost clunk now. In Saxo terms, it's an Audi A8.
The handling still wasn't quite as sharp as I wanted. The steering isn't particularly-quick geared, so the limpet-like reactions I was after were probably unrealistic. But, it was still too 'wooly'.
So, rather than trust my own judgement, I whipped it down to The Wheel Alignment Centre in Southampton. And, sure enough, it was wrong!
Drove home much better
So, does it drive any differently with all the new bits and bobs? Erm, yes! In fact, the difference on the motorway is quite unbelievable! It's MUCH quieter than it was, to the point that I don't feel the need to think about switching the 5th gear ratio for a VTR one anymore! It feels like I've taken it back to 2005, it's that much fresher!
This meant a drive to the New Forest was in order:
A donkey tried headbutting it at one point, but thankfully it was a gentle headbutt, and he got a pat, rather than a slap:
There is an elephant in the room, however; The cutting out issue. It's still doing it.
So far, I've changed:
Oh no, wait, we're driving to France in it in about 20 mins!
Yes, we actually are about to drive to France in it. Through the tunnel, then on to somewhere near Paris. Tomorrow should be a stop at Reims, with Sunday in Paris itself and a visit to where it was built just over 20years ago at Aulnay. Monday is themepark day, followed by a trip to Bruges, and then back Tuesday evening.....if it doesn't conk out.
Erm....
Right...bye then!
So, first up, here are some better pictures of the seatbelt bits I mentioned above, because as it turns out, I did take the effort to document them, I just didn't save them in the correct folder:
And also, just to proove I didn't buy an old box with Peugeot logos printed all over it...
And another image of the Saxo being used to help out another stricten silver machine:
So, yeah. There we go. Lots of fun.
Anyway, the issues with the Saxo were being split into two chunks, on account of it still being a daily driver and all. Obviously last winter we had all the fun and games with the front end, but I knew there was more to come in the middle. Well, there's more to come again at the rear (rear end round 2), but that's scheduled for next year.
In the middle, we had things like damaged sills from monkey mechanics (not this one) jacking the car up in the wrong place, and the usual propensity for Saxos to do what they do best (rot, not lift-off oversteer).
This meant removal of much of the interior, otherwise I'd end up with fiery plastic mess, however first, I wanted to tackle the most pressing job of all; Fitting my OMFGsooooorarez alloy door handles!
My wife still thinks I'm completely crackpipe for spending £60 on these, but she is wrong.
They're a quick and simple part to change, and being that the doorcard needed to come off in order to address the rattles and ripped membranes, it was no big deal.
So, interior out:
Skirts off (which needed refixing to the car anyway):
I made some attempts to pull out the dents caused by jacks, placed by mechanics that were whack! (see me grime blud):
And then in areas that couldn't be repaired, I made replacement sections. This particular piece is most definitely NOT from a very rare JDM Mazda 323GT 4x4 sump pan that I cannibilised for parts. Nope.
(it's good metal, and apparently it's pretty worthless)
In the interests of time (which is now quite tight), there was various bits of welding and grinding and stuff. There are some braces I've made that go behind the front wheel arches, as originally these cars have a piece there known as the fake jacking point, on account of the fact many paper jack them up there, but they're actually floor stiffeners, which spread the load of the actual jacking point into the centre beams.
But yeah, loads of sparks later:
It's just covered in seam-sealer and weld-thru primer at the moment. It'll do until next year, when the rear axle has to come off and the whole thing can be properly painted.
While the interior was out, I noticed that the driver's seat mounts had fractured, which is pretty common, so they were welded up:
Then, before I refitted the carpet and seats, I went round with a little hammer, tapping at various bits of the shell. Anything that made a 'ting' sound (as opposed to a 'thump') received some Dodo mat (basically like Dynamat, only much cheaper).
the name of the game is to try and make the Saxo slightly more refined and user friendly. Things like VTS engine; stiffened shell; poly-bushing...they all make it more fun to drive, but this is no track car. This is a road car, so refinement plays its part, too. So, after the Dodo mat, I went in with a bit more sound insulation:
I then switched the steering wheel for a low mileage replacement from a 2002 car. A shame, as I like to keep original parts with cars, but the original was wrecked; Worn away, and has lost its grip on the wheel rim itself:
Something like a steering wheel is something you interface with a lot, so it can really affect the 'feel' of the car. New wheel on:
We also have a nicer seat! The bolster on the driver's side had been ripped and damaged for some time, so I managed to find a replacement semi-leather seat, and pull the cover off:
A bit of stitchwork later, and a hybrid cover of the original with the passenger side (up here for thinking) bolster of the newer seat. All I needed was some pictures....which I forgot. But the seat looks much better, you'll have to take me at my word!
All in all, the interior's really come together. We've got this 'OE+' vibe going on. There's a 206 GTi gearknob and pedals (all direct fit), the Furio alloy handles, a bit more refinement and a new steering wheel. This is good stuff.
And it didn't stop there! Saxo doors rattle sometimes, and don't make a pleasant sound when shutting. That'll be because of these plastic bushes:
Metal on plastic is OK, but metal on rusty metal? No good. So, it was a trip to Citroen again, and...
The doors almost clunk now. In Saxo terms, it's an Audi A8.
The handling still wasn't quite as sharp as I wanted. The steering isn't particularly-quick geared, so the limpet-like reactions I was after were probably unrealistic. But, it was still too 'wooly'.
So, rather than trust my own judgement, I whipped it down to The Wheel Alignment Centre in Southampton. And, sure enough, it was wrong!
Drove home much better
So, does it drive any differently with all the new bits and bobs? Erm, yes! In fact, the difference on the motorway is quite unbelievable! It's MUCH quieter than it was, to the point that I don't feel the need to think about switching the 5th gear ratio for a VTR one anymore! It feels like I've taken it back to 2005, it's that much fresher!
This meant a drive to the New Forest was in order:
A donkey tried headbutting it at one point, but thankfully it was a gentle headbutt, and he got a pat, rather than a slap:
There is an elephant in the room, however; The cutting out issue. It's still doing it.
So far, I've changed:
- Fuel/ign relay
- TPS
- MAP sensor
- Lambda sensor (was advised these last two, though I couldn't figure out how this would help)
- Fuse box & fuses under bonnet
- Crank sensor
Oh no, wait, we're driving to France in it in about 20 mins!
Yes, we actually are about to drive to France in it. Through the tunnel, then on to somewhere near Paris. Tomorrow should be a stop at Reims, with Sunday in Paris itself and a visit to where it was built just over 20years ago at Aulnay. Monday is themepark day, followed by a trip to Bruges, and then back Tuesday evening.....if it doesn't conk out.
Erm....
Right...bye then!
Live from a hotel room In Brugge!
Well, that isn't Bruges, that's clearly Blackpool! Saxo plodding on quite well. Done about 850miles in just over three days now. Hasn't been a faultless run, but all in all we've done well so far.
Now have a run back down the Belgian coast to the Euro Tunnel. Hopefully that'll go smoothly!
Well, that isn't Bruges, that's clearly Blackpool! Saxo plodding on quite well. Done about 850miles in just over three days now. Hasn't been a faultless run, but all in all we've done well so far.
Now have a run back down the Belgian coast to the Euro Tunnel. Hopefully that'll go smoothly!
pomp1 said:
My first car was a Furio. It was absolutely brilliant until I crashed it a year later.
I still miss it.
The Citroen Saxo sold incredibly well I think due to some helpful insurance offers?
Enjoy
I had a Furio too (see beginning of thread). Not the earlier one with the multi-colour seatbelts, as per the Westcoast and Eastcoast, but a later one, with even more basic trim, and yet....alloy door handles. That's how I knew about them, and why I wanted them for this!I still miss it.
The Citroen Saxo sold incredibly well I think due to some helpful insurance offers?
Enjoy
Yup, lots of insurance dealys!
littlebasher said:
Don't forget, the natural environment for a Saxo in France is on the wrong side of the road overtaking everyone at +2mph, usually on a bend.
Well, I'm back and just about all caught up. That was a cracking weekend away!
To recap, it was 20 years ago on the 25th September that the little Saxo rolled out of the doors at Citroen's Aulnay plant, near Paris (if you've been under that tunnel at Charles De Gaulle airport, you've passed it before).
Due to work commitments, we couldn't go to France on the 25th September, but we did manage to steal away on the 25th October. The plan was to tour France a bit (which I could happily do all week long), stop off at some places of note (including Aulnay itself, hopefully to grab some photos before security came) before swinging through Belgium on the route home.
I'd faffed and faffed trying to prepare the car for the trip. I didn't know how many miles it would be all in, but I knew it was more than the car has probably done in the past 3-4 years! I wanted it to run sweetly and confidently, with no knocks, leaks, clunks or bumps. Breaking down in France wasn't something I was keen to try out!
In the build-up to the trip, I'd discovered that although I'd improved the car more than I thought I might, I still hadn't cured the intermittant stuttering/cutting out. There's no pattern to it; It's literally a case of it either just shutting down while idling (sometimes just as you're coming off the clutch to pull out into a junction!) or, if the car is alright on the move, a brief hiccup as it cuts out, but is then immediately bump started again. It's proving to be quite an annoying little gremlin, though sometimes it can go two weeks without incident!
Friday
But, I wasn't able to put this right, so the trip to France begin the Friday before last at midday. First leg - Hampshire to the Euro Tunnel terminal near Folkstone, which we made in good time, despite the weather and the conversion to 'Smart' motorways along various stretches of the route:
No hiccups along the way, I'm pleased to report. The car drove beautifully all the way down.
Into the tunnel slightly late as an Ambiwlans had been called to the train before ours. We had until 8pm to check-in, and things were going to be tight!
GB sticker applied, and headlight gummy things stuck on, we offloaded from the train around 5:20pm French time. No sooner had we got going off, the first stutter appeared. Great! Nothing like a bit of potential breakdown anxiety to make the trip more enjoyable! So, we set off down the world's most boring motorway (the one from Calais to Paris):
Two things occured to me en-route. Firstly, that the Saxo is difficult to keep at a steady motorway speed (likely because it's doing 4k rpm at around 75mph, so is always 'on cam', and secondly, that there seemed to be no Saxo VT* models around, anywhere! Last time I went to France, I didn't see a single BX (I got over it though, can you tell?!) This time, I'm seeing basic 'flat-archers', but no kitted Saxos anywhere. Can't say I'd ever really looked before!
French A-roads are different to the UK's, because you can drive for miles and miles, and see no signs of towns or people. There are no 'cats eyes'; very little street lighting and seemingly no pattern to which sharp bends they use signs to warn you in advance of. When you've got gummy beam deflector things on old basic headlamps, and a Frenchman sitting about 2in from your tailpipe in a diesel Megane (or something), making progress is hard work!
It all comes to a head when heading to Soissons out in the sticks, and a car comes the other way. They're on main beam, and are a little tardy switching back to dip (when I say 'little', I mean 'very'). After a slightly stressful journey, and the angst of getting to the park before the gate closes, this irks me enough to flash them, which I do...just as they switch to dip. This annoys the French native, who proceeds to then switch back to main beam. Being a child, I respond with main beams, foglamps, the bird....everything in my limited arsenal.
Luckily, my wife had spotted that we were rapidly approaching a crossroad at about 90km/h...in the wet...with no ABS. I managed to both avoid the totally unmarked concrete traffic island in the middle of the road, and stop the car before the white line of death. There were casualties in the luggage.
On arrival at the campsite (a Eurocamp no less!), we found it to be even darker than the roads we've just driven on. No people; no cars; no lights...nutt'in. We head to reception, which is still open, but being 8:30pm, the staff have buggered off. This is bad! A night of sleeping in the Saxo appeals no more than heading back out on the roads we just nearly expired on.
Then, my wife notices a row of envelopes on the desk, one of which has our name on. Contained within...a key! Cashback!
We muddle over to the darkest corner of wherever we are, unload the car, figure out how to operate the heating and then head to the onsite burger joint (which is still open...just) and order some bang average burgers. A northern man is having a conversation on his mobile phone, only he has it on speaker phone, and is holding it near-horizontal, close to his mouth ala. any of the 'contestants' on The Apprentice. Why do people do this?! The guy was doubly-simple too, because he was slagging off the burger joint, while in the presence of the English-speaking French ladies operating said joint, and MAKING HIS BURGER! Extra gozz in that one, I suspect. Our burgers were fine, and the fries were actually really nice!
The next day, the weather made an outstanding start, so I ventured out to see where we were:
Reminded that the little Saxo had just got us to base, I gave it a pat on the bonnet. You know, because it's an inanimate object with no feelings, and as humans we feel the need to anthropomorphise literally anything we can!
Saturday
So, awarded with a sunny Saturday, we decide today is the day to visit Reims. The city, sure, but of course the old Grand Prix circuit-de-Reims. Every petrolhead at some point seems to go here, and I never had, depsite it being relatively easy to access. Time to right that wrong!
We had a picnic there, after which I managed to engage in some shinanegans with a local in a Focus ST. It was all innocent - basically I wanted to get some footage of the Saxo blatting through the site, as many others were doing when we got there. Well, actually when we got there, there were a row of Mercedes AMG things (the ones with the V8 engines that sound like a cheap V8 sound effect machine made by Sony, and the X-plod button has been pressed and has stuck, thus rendering it permenantely on LOUD mode. Sorry, I don't like them much!)
Different strokes for different folks, but if the absolute helmet who held his baby out of the window frame like a trophy, while a few stories up is reading this (my guess is, he's not) then you, sir, are a collossal plum. Your kid deserves better.
Anyway...there's a Clio there, and then a Mini Cooper S which spends the morning whining up and down the straight about 238 times. Yes mate, we get it; You've got a supercharger.
Before we leave, a load of bikers turn up, as well as some sightseers. I wanted the video of le Saxo hammering down le straight, but didn't want all the people which much faster machinery to mock me. Eventually, my wife points out that the day is ebbing away, and that I don't know these people...so just crack on! Which, I did. I pulled out, blatted up and down a few times while she filmed it - nothing crazy at all, just some revs in 2nd and 3rd.
On the last run, I pull in to the 'pits', slow right down to let traffic pass, then pull back out, this time giving it large m8 in 1st gear, with all the ensuing drama, wheelspin and rev limiter action. Barrels of fun.
However, unbeknownst to yours truly, a Frenchman was behind me in a Focus ST (5-pot howly type). He had witnessed my buffoonery, and decided he wanted to join in. The first I knew of his actions where when I saw his face in my rear view mirror approaching the roundabout at the end of the straight. I couldn't see his bumper or headlamps, or even his bonnet. In fact, I couldn't even see his wiper blades, he was that close. I could has switched the engine off to save some fuel, because he could have just pushed me the rest of the way.
Two things went through my mind: Firstly, what kind of dinlow in a Focus ST (the majority of which are R3M4PPED fam!!) sees a standard-looking Saxo VTR, and wants to play with it? Pick on someone your own size!
The second thought I had was how could I 'win' this situation (whatever 'winning' equated to). I'm not gonna bother 'racing' the man, because despite it being probably about the safest environment you could try it, it was still not only a public road, but a public road in a country where I did not speak the langauge, and where the local law enforcement would financially enforce their law up my jacksie...dry.
But, the child in me still wanted to make a point of some kind, so as I negociated the roundabout, I backed off very gently (any more and he'd have hit me), and started to take an odd line through the curve, where I went wide enough that I was well off-course, but tight enough so that he couldn't pass. Then, as I approached the exit, I moved tighter to the inside (straightening my exit). I knew there was a nice camber on the exit, as well as an apex I could hit, and I knew I could do this flat out in second gear without breaking traction (that's why some cars are fun...they give you enough 'feel' that you know how they will react to something before you'd even tried it).
So, with the speed right down (sorry if I'm boring you all here), and as tightly as I can now get to the inside of the roundabout, I pick my line, select 2nd gear, and, knowing that I wouldn't need to back off the power again, I plant the throttle and tug the wheel to the right to initiate my stylish exit. I don't know if any 18-19yr old French girls were nearby, but I'm sure they were, and I'm sure all their knickers instantly fell off. But although the car may suggest otherwise, I'm now a 36yr old man, not an 18yr old chav, therefore I feel obliged to let the local lads attend to them, and continue with my conquest. Sorry ladies.
This has caught the Focus driver napping, as I hoped. He attempts to apply power through the corner too, but as planned, it goes badly for him on account of his car effectively carrying a Caterham on the roof compared with the Saxo, and on account of the fact that he actually has more than a modest 130bhp (likely 2-3 times more), which causes tyre smoke and understeer on his part.
The plan is working. He's been caught napping, and the Saxo is making him look silly. At the top of 3rd gear, a gap has opened, but it's not to last, as the road straightens and the Focus rapidly starts reeling the Saxo in for the kill. It's David vs. Goliath, and there are no rocks. However, there are some pits! And, I've done what I needed to do, so just as he starts to move out to pass, I indicate to my left, and gently begin to slow down. He decides against zipping past me, probably as I've already been unpredictable once, and as I slow to manouvring speeds, I perform a gentle 180deg turn to park up, thus denying him the opportunity to 'beat' me. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!
Later that day, we visit Reims itself. among my many, many fascinating pastimes, I like football grounds. I mean, I like football too, not just the grounds, but if I go somewhere new and there's a stadium there, I like to check it out. My wife LOVES this aspect...no, wait...HATES, not loves; She HATES this aspect of the day.
Behold, Stade de Reims!
Normally, I'd park up, get out and trot around the ground to take it all in. Maybe even peak inside. Dunno what the obsession is, possibly years of reading footy annuals and playing FIFA - the grounds were always something I was interested in.
Sadly, Reims are playing at home tonight against Nimes. All the carparks are barricaded, and all through-routes blocked off. Balls! (hehe)
I manage to park up where said pic above was taken, and checked this was kosha by nodding at the security guard as I walked past. He nodded back. I took that as "Yes young man, you may alight here!" Thought it was possibly him thinking that I was insutating "You're going to tow my car away aren't you?" while nodding, and him saying "Yes, I'm definitely going to tow your car away, you English pig dog roast beef etc."
Defeat was admitted for having a good wander (I'd have to drive off and park miles away, and walk back), which was music to my wife's ears. However, there was a shop (in the background of that pic), so I nipped inside for a small token or souveneir. Maybe a magnet, or a sticker...something small. What I end up with is a pair of last seasons' home shorts from the clearance bin, for 5euros! Bargain! I can actually use these!
The security guard was of the nice, non-racist, non-judgemental type, and the Saxo was waiting for us when we got back. We hear some commotion as we get in, and see rival fans driving around cheering, jeering, beeping horns, hanging out of sunroofs and throwing beer cans around, scarves blowing in the breeze. It's 2:30pm, and kick-off is meant to be 7:00pm, but it looks like it's going to get tasty before that. I decide to Google where Nimes is, assuming it's about 3 miles down the road, and this is the build-up of a fierce local derby. Nope. It's somwhere miles away, totally irrelevant.
Next stop is the car museum (a bit of a 'me' day so far, this) that I almost forgot was there! There are quite a few dotted around France, and I have a feeling this will be peak French motoring heaven. I wasn't denied my feeling when I pulled into thescrapyard car park...
Yes, I moved around the car park and took pictures of the Saxo posing next to other old French cars. Look, I'm married already! I've snared one. It doesn't matter if I repel women! Unless I start repelling the one I'm married to....
Anyway, the museum....yes. Pretty cool. I would share tonnes of pictures on here, but it's such a faff uploading pics to this that I just haven't got time. Suffice to say, there were two Peugeot 505s, a 305, a Simca 1310 (aka Talbot Solara), a Renault 14 next to a Renault 19 - both billy basic spec....there was a LOT.
The highlight?
Notable inclusions:
Yes, this place is good. My only disappointment was the shop, just because I wanted it to be even more full than it already was!
I've got an Instagram thing (@richykitchy) so if anyone genuinely wants to see the rest of what I took, I'll stick them on there.
Then we went into Reims, which is actually a really pretty city in itself (most French cities are, in fairness). We went in a big church, and I'm not totally sure what was occuring, but I think you could pay money and colour in some of the windows....or something:
We returned to the dark plastic box that night, and switched the oven on to cook a bolognase pizza (abroad really is better than here!) Just as this was nearly completion, the power died, and we were plunged into further darkness! My wife's old Huawei P9, which we'd brought along as a satnav came to the rescue, and provided enough light for me to admire my purchases at the museum's shop:
Still not seen any Saxo VT* models, anywhere. Tonnes of 205s still around (ish), but sporty Saxos? Non.
Sunday to follow, if I can be arst to type it, and y'all can be arst to read it. I appreciate this is less about a car, and more a holiday snap-sharing session!
To recap, it was 20 years ago on the 25th September that the little Saxo rolled out of the doors at Citroen's Aulnay plant, near Paris (if you've been under that tunnel at Charles De Gaulle airport, you've passed it before).
Due to work commitments, we couldn't go to France on the 25th September, but we did manage to steal away on the 25th October. The plan was to tour France a bit (which I could happily do all week long), stop off at some places of note (including Aulnay itself, hopefully to grab some photos before security came) before swinging through Belgium on the route home.
I'd faffed and faffed trying to prepare the car for the trip. I didn't know how many miles it would be all in, but I knew it was more than the car has probably done in the past 3-4 years! I wanted it to run sweetly and confidently, with no knocks, leaks, clunks or bumps. Breaking down in France wasn't something I was keen to try out!
In the build-up to the trip, I'd discovered that although I'd improved the car more than I thought I might, I still hadn't cured the intermittant stuttering/cutting out. There's no pattern to it; It's literally a case of it either just shutting down while idling (sometimes just as you're coming off the clutch to pull out into a junction!) or, if the car is alright on the move, a brief hiccup as it cuts out, but is then immediately bump started again. It's proving to be quite an annoying little gremlin, though sometimes it can go two weeks without incident!
Friday
But, I wasn't able to put this right, so the trip to France begin the Friday before last at midday. First leg - Hampshire to the Euro Tunnel terminal near Folkstone, which we made in good time, despite the weather and the conversion to 'Smart' motorways along various stretches of the route:
No hiccups along the way, I'm pleased to report. The car drove beautifully all the way down.
Into the tunnel slightly late as an Ambiwlans had been called to the train before ours. We had until 8pm to check-in, and things were going to be tight!
GB sticker applied, and headlight gummy things stuck on, we offloaded from the train around 5:20pm French time. No sooner had we got going off, the first stutter appeared. Great! Nothing like a bit of potential breakdown anxiety to make the trip more enjoyable! So, we set off down the world's most boring motorway (the one from Calais to Paris):
Two things occured to me en-route. Firstly, that the Saxo is difficult to keep at a steady motorway speed (likely because it's doing 4k rpm at around 75mph, so is always 'on cam', and secondly, that there seemed to be no Saxo VT* models around, anywhere! Last time I went to France, I didn't see a single BX (I got over it though, can you tell?!) This time, I'm seeing basic 'flat-archers', but no kitted Saxos anywhere. Can't say I'd ever really looked before!
French A-roads are different to the UK's, because you can drive for miles and miles, and see no signs of towns or people. There are no 'cats eyes'; very little street lighting and seemingly no pattern to which sharp bends they use signs to warn you in advance of. When you've got gummy beam deflector things on old basic headlamps, and a Frenchman sitting about 2in from your tailpipe in a diesel Megane (or something), making progress is hard work!
It all comes to a head when heading to Soissons out in the sticks, and a car comes the other way. They're on main beam, and are a little tardy switching back to dip (when I say 'little', I mean 'very'). After a slightly stressful journey, and the angst of getting to the park before the gate closes, this irks me enough to flash them, which I do...just as they switch to dip. This annoys the French native, who proceeds to then switch back to main beam. Being a child, I respond with main beams, foglamps, the bird....everything in my limited arsenal.
Luckily, my wife had spotted that we were rapidly approaching a crossroad at about 90km/h...in the wet...with no ABS. I managed to both avoid the totally unmarked concrete traffic island in the middle of the road, and stop the car before the white line of death. There were casualties in the luggage.
On arrival at the campsite (a Eurocamp no less!), we found it to be even darker than the roads we've just driven on. No people; no cars; no lights...nutt'in. We head to reception, which is still open, but being 8:30pm, the staff have buggered off. This is bad! A night of sleeping in the Saxo appeals no more than heading back out on the roads we just nearly expired on.
Then, my wife notices a row of envelopes on the desk, one of which has our name on. Contained within...a key! Cashback!
We muddle over to the darkest corner of wherever we are, unload the car, figure out how to operate the heating and then head to the onsite burger joint (which is still open...just) and order some bang average burgers. A northern man is having a conversation on his mobile phone, only he has it on speaker phone, and is holding it near-horizontal, close to his mouth ala. any of the 'contestants' on The Apprentice. Why do people do this?! The guy was doubly-simple too, because he was slagging off the burger joint, while in the presence of the English-speaking French ladies operating said joint, and MAKING HIS BURGER! Extra gozz in that one, I suspect. Our burgers were fine, and the fries were actually really nice!
The next day, the weather made an outstanding start, so I ventured out to see where we were:
Reminded that the little Saxo had just got us to base, I gave it a pat on the bonnet. You know, because it's an inanimate object with no feelings, and as humans we feel the need to anthropomorphise literally anything we can!
Saturday
So, awarded with a sunny Saturday, we decide today is the day to visit Reims. The city, sure, but of course the old Grand Prix circuit-de-Reims. Every petrolhead at some point seems to go here, and I never had, depsite it being relatively easy to access. Time to right that wrong!
We had a picnic there, after which I managed to engage in some shinanegans with a local in a Focus ST. It was all innocent - basically I wanted to get some footage of the Saxo blatting through the site, as many others were doing when we got there. Well, actually when we got there, there were a row of Mercedes AMG things (the ones with the V8 engines that sound like a cheap V8 sound effect machine made by Sony, and the X-plod button has been pressed and has stuck, thus rendering it permenantely on LOUD mode. Sorry, I don't like them much!)
Different strokes for different folks, but if the absolute helmet who held his baby out of the window frame like a trophy, while a few stories up is reading this (my guess is, he's not) then you, sir, are a collossal plum. Your kid deserves better.
Anyway...there's a Clio there, and then a Mini Cooper S which spends the morning whining up and down the straight about 238 times. Yes mate, we get it; You've got a supercharger.
Before we leave, a load of bikers turn up, as well as some sightseers. I wanted the video of le Saxo hammering down le straight, but didn't want all the people which much faster machinery to mock me. Eventually, my wife points out that the day is ebbing away, and that I don't know these people...so just crack on! Which, I did. I pulled out, blatted up and down a few times while she filmed it - nothing crazy at all, just some revs in 2nd and 3rd.
On the last run, I pull in to the 'pits', slow right down to let traffic pass, then pull back out, this time giving it large m8 in 1st gear, with all the ensuing drama, wheelspin and rev limiter action. Barrels of fun.
However, unbeknownst to yours truly, a Frenchman was behind me in a Focus ST (5-pot howly type). He had witnessed my buffoonery, and decided he wanted to join in. The first I knew of his actions where when I saw his face in my rear view mirror approaching the roundabout at the end of the straight. I couldn't see his bumper or headlamps, or even his bonnet. In fact, I couldn't even see his wiper blades, he was that close. I could has switched the engine off to save some fuel, because he could have just pushed me the rest of the way.
Two things went through my mind: Firstly, what kind of dinlow in a Focus ST (the majority of which are R3M4PPED fam!!) sees a standard-looking Saxo VTR, and wants to play with it? Pick on someone your own size!
The second thought I had was how could I 'win' this situation (whatever 'winning' equated to). I'm not gonna bother 'racing' the man, because despite it being probably about the safest environment you could try it, it was still not only a public road, but a public road in a country where I did not speak the langauge, and where the local law enforcement would financially enforce their law up my jacksie...dry.
But, the child in me still wanted to make a point of some kind, so as I negociated the roundabout, I backed off very gently (any more and he'd have hit me), and started to take an odd line through the curve, where I went wide enough that I was well off-course, but tight enough so that he couldn't pass. Then, as I approached the exit, I moved tighter to the inside (straightening my exit). I knew there was a nice camber on the exit, as well as an apex I could hit, and I knew I could do this flat out in second gear without breaking traction (that's why some cars are fun...they give you enough 'feel' that you know how they will react to something before you'd even tried it).
So, with the speed right down (sorry if I'm boring you all here), and as tightly as I can now get to the inside of the roundabout, I pick my line, select 2nd gear, and, knowing that I wouldn't need to back off the power again, I plant the throttle and tug the wheel to the right to initiate my stylish exit. I don't know if any 18-19yr old French girls were nearby, but I'm sure they were, and I'm sure all their knickers instantly fell off. But although the car may suggest otherwise, I'm now a 36yr old man, not an 18yr old chav, therefore I feel obliged to let the local lads attend to them, and continue with my conquest. Sorry ladies.
This has caught the Focus driver napping, as I hoped. He attempts to apply power through the corner too, but as planned, it goes badly for him on account of his car effectively carrying a Caterham on the roof compared with the Saxo, and on account of the fact that he actually has more than a modest 130bhp (likely 2-3 times more), which causes tyre smoke and understeer on his part.
The plan is working. He's been caught napping, and the Saxo is making him look silly. At the top of 3rd gear, a gap has opened, but it's not to last, as the road straightens and the Focus rapidly starts reeling the Saxo in for the kill. It's David vs. Goliath, and there are no rocks. However, there are some pits! And, I've done what I needed to do, so just as he starts to move out to pass, I indicate to my left, and gently begin to slow down. He decides against zipping past me, probably as I've already been unpredictable once, and as I slow to manouvring speeds, I perform a gentle 180deg turn to park up, thus denying him the opportunity to 'beat' me. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!
Later that day, we visit Reims itself. among my many, many fascinating pastimes, I like football grounds. I mean, I like football too, not just the grounds, but if I go somewhere new and there's a stadium there, I like to check it out. My wife LOVES this aspect...no, wait...HATES, not loves; She HATES this aspect of the day.
Behold, Stade de Reims!
Normally, I'd park up, get out and trot around the ground to take it all in. Maybe even peak inside. Dunno what the obsession is, possibly years of reading footy annuals and playing FIFA - the grounds were always something I was interested in.
Sadly, Reims are playing at home tonight against Nimes. All the carparks are barricaded, and all through-routes blocked off. Balls! (hehe)
I manage to park up where said pic above was taken, and checked this was kosha by nodding at the security guard as I walked past. He nodded back. I took that as "Yes young man, you may alight here!" Thought it was possibly him thinking that I was insutating "You're going to tow my car away aren't you?" while nodding, and him saying "Yes, I'm definitely going to tow your car away, you English pig dog roast beef etc."
Defeat was admitted for having a good wander (I'd have to drive off and park miles away, and walk back), which was music to my wife's ears. However, there was a shop (in the background of that pic), so I nipped inside for a small token or souveneir. Maybe a magnet, or a sticker...something small. What I end up with is a pair of last seasons' home shorts from the clearance bin, for 5euros! Bargain! I can actually use these!
The security guard was of the nice, non-racist, non-judgemental type, and the Saxo was waiting for us when we got back. We hear some commotion as we get in, and see rival fans driving around cheering, jeering, beeping horns, hanging out of sunroofs and throwing beer cans around, scarves blowing in the breeze. It's 2:30pm, and kick-off is meant to be 7:00pm, but it looks like it's going to get tasty before that. I decide to Google where Nimes is, assuming it's about 3 miles down the road, and this is the build-up of a fierce local derby. Nope. It's somwhere miles away, totally irrelevant.
Next stop is the car museum (a bit of a 'me' day so far, this) that I almost forgot was there! There are quite a few dotted around France, and I have a feeling this will be peak French motoring heaven. I wasn't denied my feeling when I pulled into the
Yes, I moved around the car park and took pictures of the Saxo posing next to other old French cars. Look, I'm married already! I've snared one. It doesn't matter if I repel women! Unless I start repelling the one I'm married to....
Anyway, the museum....yes. Pretty cool. I would share tonnes of pictures on here, but it's such a faff uploading pics to this that I just haven't got time. Suffice to say, there were two Peugeot 505s, a 305, a Simca 1310 (aka Talbot Solara), a Renault 14 next to a Renault 19 - both billy basic spec....there was a LOT.
The highlight?
Notable inclusions:
Yes, this place is good. My only disappointment was the shop, just because I wanted it to be even more full than it already was!
I've got an Instagram thing (@richykitchy) so if anyone genuinely wants to see the rest of what I took, I'll stick them on there.
Then we went into Reims, which is actually a really pretty city in itself (most French cities are, in fairness). We went in a big church, and I'm not totally sure what was occuring, but I think you could pay money and colour in some of the windows....or something:
We returned to the dark plastic box that night, and switched the oven on to cook a bolognase pizza (abroad really is better than here!) Just as this was nearly completion, the power died, and we were plunged into further darkness! My wife's old Huawei P9, which we'd brought along as a satnav came to the rescue, and provided enough light for me to admire my purchases at the museum's shop:
Still not seen any Saxo VT* models, anywhere. Tonnes of 205s still around (ish), but sporty Saxos? Non.
Sunday to follow, if I can be arst to type it, and y'all can be arst to read it. I appreciate this is less about a car, and more a holiday snap-sharing session!
Right, let's get up to date!
Sunday
So, Sunday was to be the day we planned to venture into the capital. While Saturday brought with it sunny skies and 16-18C temps, Sunday was miserable! Grey skies and rain was the order of the day.
Having left the plastic box, I set Google to direct us to some co-ordinates sent by my brother-in-law, as he and his wife had stayed at the same place about 6 months previous, and he informed me of a little village with an old building with 'Citroen' emblazoned across it that they managed to stumble upon while on the way to Paris. It was only about 5km from where we were, and pretty much enroute, so we got going!
On arrival, it was decided to take a photo, or forty.
And, before any locals loaded their 12-bores, I poked the camera through the fence, and went back to the car with a mighty erection.
We carried on our merry way, completely forgetting that we were still running on the fuel I filled with near Portsmouth! The Saxo was already showing 420 miles on the trip counter, and the last time I researched it, I believe the average range of a VTS is 398! We needed fuel, and we needed it fast!
Eventually we found a station, and topped up. 42.2mpg had been averaged since we left home, from click to click. Not bad! The fact it took nearly 49 litres was a bit worrying...I think the tank only takes 50!
Next stop, it was genesis; The place it all began, and the reason for coming here (in part, anyway)...Aulnay-sous-Bois. This is where the Saxo was built just over 20 years ago:
Aulnay was one of Citroen's historical plants. It built everything from the last few DS', through to the Dyane, and Ami, and then the GS and CX. Most AXs were built here, as were all Saxos. C2s and C3s followed, before the final car rolled off the line a few years ago, much to the distress of the workforce and local area. Seems its cheaper to build cars away from big cities.
The place reeked of both history, and lost industry.
I forget the name of the company, but my wife used to work in a Citroen dealership about ten years ago, and she said that in her role as a sales admin, she used to liase with the logistics company who used to bring the cars over, which from Aulnay was by road. That company's yard was still there, as cars assembled in various other plants were still stored, ready for delivery. The factories may have gone, but it was still registering a faint heartbeat...
It was at this point that security arrived. I knew the conservatoire was nearby, so asked for directions (knowing full-well where it was). Drove to the car park, which had a treat hiding in it this time!
We popped into the shop there (or what was the shop), expecting to be told we weren't allowed in (as it wasn't open to the public), only to find it now is, sometimes! Then we were asked if we'd like to see the collection!
"No", my wife replied. He's seen it already.
Denied.
It was fair, as we still had to get to Paris, which we managed!
I won't bore you with the holiday snap stuff. You all know what Paris looks like!
Monday
Now it was time to leave France, and head to Belgium for an overnight stop In Bruges (deliberate). This was going to be via Lille, where we'd stop for a wander round (and I'd forget to check out their rather impressive stadium), and then Ypres, for some WW1 reflection.
However, the next stop was Auchan. Nope, that's not a picturesque village, it's a supermarket. The best supermarket. Ever.
Why? Well, I wanted to stock up on mags. I'd already made a purchase at the supermarket near our temporary residence:
The fact I couldn't read it didn't put me off!
However, I posted this in the Citroen Car Club Facebook group (it's as 'hip' as it sounds), as I felt I would share my spoil with the group, and see who else was aware.
A few people knew of this publication (and also suggested Youngtimers, which I'm now bang into). I was immediately saddened to hear the issue I'd just bought, which covered Citroen's 100 year anniversary bash in lots of detail and images, was the last...as in, the final issue. Baffled, I asked why?! It was good quality, well-edited and laid out; It was a mag I'd subscribe to.
Turns out the fella who basically is 'Chevroannes' had suddenly passed away, aged only 43
The fact that it was the last one on the shelf made that even more poigniant, and it seemed to be the last one in existence, too, as a couple of mates asked me to grab them one, and we couldn't find them anywhere!
At the Auchan on the way to Lille, however, I got lucky, and secured two more. I then hit double points and snared all these:
And, if Carlsberg did magazines...
Lille was pretty, and we parked in a super-cool underground car park in the centre, while Ypres was a touch on the moving side:
As well as pretty:
From Ypres, it was on to our overnight stopover In Bruges. Monday was the worst day, as far as the car was concerned. There were periods on the motorways in the north of France where it hiccup'd, and actually cut out for a good 4-5 seconds. Interestingly, the rev counter continues to function at this point, while all other dials die. Bedtime reading of wiring diagrams in the Haynes manual has proved baffling so far...I can't figure it out, and it seems it's going to be a case of waiting for it to actually break down and refuse to start again.
But, it got us to In Bruges, where we were able to relax, and enjoy a nice meal out.
I'd been wandering round pretty cities and towns like Reims, Lille, Paris & Ypres, and thinking "Bruges is probably a bit overrated. These are all equally as nice!"
Nah. They're not. They're nice, but touristy as it is, In Bruges is just beautiful, and so chilled.
Not much to report of day four. We left In Bruges early afternoon, and bimbled around on the coast of Belgium, including a trip to a Belgian McDonalds (thank god for those touch screens!), where they offered beer, a 'Royal Crispy Bacon' and WINGS! Chicken Wings! And they were delicious! So factor in French MaccyD's having wedges and Croque M-Do (something like that), continental McDs comprehensively piss all over ours.
We missed our Eurotunnel thanks to the tasty junk food, but this was no big deal as we'd only hit rush hour the other side anyway. The Saxo completed the european leg of the journey at around 5pm, and I relaxed a bit, knowing that breaking down in the UK is preferable to breaking down not in the UK. I mean, not breaking down at all is ideal, but beggars can't be choosers.
We arrived in the UK half an hour before we left, and hit the M20. I miss the junction for the M25 and we end up going miles out of our way, and having to endure MORE of the M25. I'm overwhelmed at this point by the state of our driving. It's always a shock when you come back from France and realise just how bad lane discipline in the UK is. People are cunce.
So, we're merrily barrelling along on some E85 cheapo Ethanol-laden petrol I picked up in Belgium, though the Saxo is loving it! Pulling quite nicely in fact, while the cylinder head erodes.
We arrive back at base around 8:45pm, pretty much four days after we arrived at base in France. In those four days, the Saxo has covered 1041 miles, and I have to be honest, it didn't break me! No headaches, no backache, no cramp. It ate the miles far better than it had any right to.
When I think about it, cars are just great, aren't they? In a car worth about as much as a box of Shreddies (and about as strong), I stayed in two different countries, visited four cities (three of which were new to me), saw Tine Cot cememtary and Menin Gate, created some memories and had some laughs. All in the space of four days, and all for very little outlay. It was fun, it was cheap, and I was sad when it ended. My respect for that car increased after that.
Until today. Today it failed the MoT on the steering rack boot AGAIN!!!!! And the horn has died (guessing it got overused in Paris!)
fking car!!
Sunday
So, Sunday was to be the day we planned to venture into the capital. While Saturday brought with it sunny skies and 16-18C temps, Sunday was miserable! Grey skies and rain was the order of the day.
Having left the plastic box, I set Google to direct us to some co-ordinates sent by my brother-in-law, as he and his wife had stayed at the same place about 6 months previous, and he informed me of a little village with an old building with 'Citroen' emblazoned across it that they managed to stumble upon while on the way to Paris. It was only about 5km from where we were, and pretty much enroute, so we got going!
On arrival, it was decided to take a photo, or forty.
And, before any locals loaded their 12-bores, I poked the camera through the fence, and went back to the car with a mighty erection.
We carried on our merry way, completely forgetting that we were still running on the fuel I filled with near Portsmouth! The Saxo was already showing 420 miles on the trip counter, and the last time I researched it, I believe the average range of a VTS is 398! We needed fuel, and we needed it fast!
Eventually we found a station, and topped up. 42.2mpg had been averaged since we left home, from click to click. Not bad! The fact it took nearly 49 litres was a bit worrying...I think the tank only takes 50!
Next stop, it was genesis; The place it all began, and the reason for coming here (in part, anyway)...Aulnay-sous-Bois. This is where the Saxo was built just over 20 years ago:
Aulnay was one of Citroen's historical plants. It built everything from the last few DS', through to the Dyane, and Ami, and then the GS and CX. Most AXs were built here, as were all Saxos. C2s and C3s followed, before the final car rolled off the line a few years ago, much to the distress of the workforce and local area. Seems its cheaper to build cars away from big cities.
The place reeked of both history, and lost industry.
I forget the name of the company, but my wife used to work in a Citroen dealership about ten years ago, and she said that in her role as a sales admin, she used to liase with the logistics company who used to bring the cars over, which from Aulnay was by road. That company's yard was still there, as cars assembled in various other plants were still stored, ready for delivery. The factories may have gone, but it was still registering a faint heartbeat...
It was at this point that security arrived. I knew the conservatoire was nearby, so asked for directions (knowing full-well where it was). Drove to the car park, which had a treat hiding in it this time!
We popped into the shop there (or what was the shop), expecting to be told we weren't allowed in (as it wasn't open to the public), only to find it now is, sometimes! Then we were asked if we'd like to see the collection!
"No", my wife replied. He's seen it already.
Denied.
It was fair, as we still had to get to Paris, which we managed!
I won't bore you with the holiday snap stuff. You all know what Paris looks like!
Monday
Now it was time to leave France, and head to Belgium for an overnight stop In Bruges (deliberate). This was going to be via Lille, where we'd stop for a wander round (and I'd forget to check out their rather impressive stadium), and then Ypres, for some WW1 reflection.
However, the next stop was Auchan. Nope, that's not a picturesque village, it's a supermarket. The best supermarket. Ever.
Why? Well, I wanted to stock up on mags. I'd already made a purchase at the supermarket near our temporary residence:
The fact I couldn't read it didn't put me off!
However, I posted this in the Citroen Car Club Facebook group (it's as 'hip' as it sounds), as I felt I would share my spoil with the group, and see who else was aware.
A few people knew of this publication (and also suggested Youngtimers, which I'm now bang into). I was immediately saddened to hear the issue I'd just bought, which covered Citroen's 100 year anniversary bash in lots of detail and images, was the last...as in, the final issue. Baffled, I asked why?! It was good quality, well-edited and laid out; It was a mag I'd subscribe to.
Turns out the fella who basically is 'Chevroannes' had suddenly passed away, aged only 43
The fact that it was the last one on the shelf made that even more poigniant, and it seemed to be the last one in existence, too, as a couple of mates asked me to grab them one, and we couldn't find them anywhere!
At the Auchan on the way to Lille, however, I got lucky, and secured two more. I then hit double points and snared all these:
And, if Carlsberg did magazines...
Lille was pretty, and we parked in a super-cool underground car park in the centre, while Ypres was a touch on the moving side:
As well as pretty:
From Ypres, it was on to our overnight stopover In Bruges. Monday was the worst day, as far as the car was concerned. There were periods on the motorways in the north of France where it hiccup'd, and actually cut out for a good 4-5 seconds. Interestingly, the rev counter continues to function at this point, while all other dials die. Bedtime reading of wiring diagrams in the Haynes manual has proved baffling so far...I can't figure it out, and it seems it's going to be a case of waiting for it to actually break down and refuse to start again.
But, it got us to In Bruges, where we were able to relax, and enjoy a nice meal out.
I'd been wandering round pretty cities and towns like Reims, Lille, Paris & Ypres, and thinking "Bruges is probably a bit overrated. These are all equally as nice!"
Nah. They're not. They're nice, but touristy as it is, In Bruges is just beautiful, and so chilled.
Not much to report of day four. We left In Bruges early afternoon, and bimbled around on the coast of Belgium, including a trip to a Belgian McDonalds (thank god for those touch screens!), where they offered beer, a 'Royal Crispy Bacon' and WINGS! Chicken Wings! And they were delicious! So factor in French MaccyD's having wedges and Croque M-Do (something like that), continental McDs comprehensively piss all over ours.
We missed our Eurotunnel thanks to the tasty junk food, but this was no big deal as we'd only hit rush hour the other side anyway. The Saxo completed the european leg of the journey at around 5pm, and I relaxed a bit, knowing that breaking down in the UK is preferable to breaking down not in the UK. I mean, not breaking down at all is ideal, but beggars can't be choosers.
We arrived in the UK half an hour before we left, and hit the M20. I miss the junction for the M25 and we end up going miles out of our way, and having to endure MORE of the M25. I'm overwhelmed at this point by the state of our driving. It's always a shock when you come back from France and realise just how bad lane discipline in the UK is. People are cunce.
So, we're merrily barrelling along on some E85 cheapo Ethanol-laden petrol I picked up in Belgium, though the Saxo is loving it! Pulling quite nicely in fact, while the cylinder head erodes.
We arrive back at base around 8:45pm, pretty much four days after we arrived at base in France. In those four days, the Saxo has covered 1041 miles, and I have to be honest, it didn't break me! No headaches, no backache, no cramp. It ate the miles far better than it had any right to.
When I think about it, cars are just great, aren't they? In a car worth about as much as a box of Shreddies (and about as strong), I stayed in two different countries, visited four cities (three of which were new to me), saw Tine Cot cememtary and Menin Gate, created some memories and had some laughs. All in the space of four days, and all for very little outlay. It was fun, it was cheap, and I was sad when it ended. My respect for that car increased after that.
Until today. Today it failed the MoT on the steering rack boot AGAIN!!!!! And the horn has died (guessing it got overused in Paris!)
f
king car!!Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff