W202 - C36 AMG & C43/55 AMG
Discussion
MickyveloceClassic said:
Great to see you’re still enthusing about your C36 Notwen!
I’m approaching 14 years of owning my red C36, and still adore its combination of rarity, compact style, overtaking poke and straight-six noise.
Thanks Michael, will have to get over to the Ripon show next year for a meet up.I’m approaching 14 years of owning my red C36, and still adore its combination of rarity, compact style, overtaking poke and straight-six noise.
JakeT said:
Welshy I believe the only 'AMG' before was the W124 Hammer. I think I saw somewhere that the E36 was the first official Mercedes-Benz AMG model after MB purchased AMG.
Prior to 1993 AMG were converters, post '93 they were available through MB dealers with full MB warranty.I may be wrong, but though the W124 predates the W202, it was the C36 as the first official MB-AMG collaboration
edited to add; I started doubting myself about which came first, as there are conflicting resources.
Found this link to MB's own history:
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/classic/history/t...
Edited by Notwen on Monday 8th June 13:49
Rusty McRust face
Come the tail end of last year, I knew there was a little work to be done with the welder. W202’s rot for fun, while this one looked quite sound, the sill skirts can hide a lot.
The front O/S jacking point started a little suspect, likely due to poor jacking in the past that had compromised the sealant.
With the sealant peeled off and some judicial prodding, plus gravity helped.
Initially I was going to do a repair section. Cleaning back the underseal further along the sill, while not holed, it would have been a job for the future. So went down the full sill route.
Behind the sils was a small flitch plate, with differing curves. Made an absolute pig of trying to replicate it. Then came up trumps with a NOS piece, according to the MB label was actually older than the car. I cut out and remade the jacking point support.
The worse areas were, where there are factory fitted bungs under the rear arches and rear floor.
Cut out and new pieces fabricated.
(this was after me giving the bung a prod)
I really struggled to get the underbody coating to a similar consistency, so will see how it ages.
Another favoured spot for C Class corrosion, is the boot (from leaking batteries missing the vent tube normally) and the section behind the O/S rear wheel. Fortunately the later is still available as a repair section from Mercedes.
Towing eye
MB still list the towing eye, a veritable bargain at less the £10.
Just before Easter it was back on its wheels.
Then outside for a well deserved clean.
Didn't take long for Brian the Beagle to stage a sit in protest, of wanting a ride out.
The plan had been, the week after Easter I was going to MOT it as it ran out in March.
Missing the 6 month extension, it has sat since awaiting a decent run.
Come the tail end of last year, I knew there was a little work to be done with the welder. W202’s rot for fun, while this one looked quite sound, the sill skirts can hide a lot.
The front O/S jacking point started a little suspect, likely due to poor jacking in the past that had compromised the sealant.
With the sealant peeled off and some judicial prodding, plus gravity helped.
Initially I was going to do a repair section. Cleaning back the underseal further along the sill, while not holed, it would have been a job for the future. So went down the full sill route.
Behind the sils was a small flitch plate, with differing curves. Made an absolute pig of trying to replicate it. Then came up trumps with a NOS piece, according to the MB label was actually older than the car. I cut out and remade the jacking point support.
The worse areas were, where there are factory fitted bungs under the rear arches and rear floor.
Cut out and new pieces fabricated.
(this was after me giving the bung a prod)
I really struggled to get the underbody coating to a similar consistency, so will see how it ages.
Another favoured spot for C Class corrosion, is the boot (from leaking batteries missing the vent tube normally) and the section behind the O/S rear wheel. Fortunately the later is still available as a repair section from Mercedes.
Towing eye
MB still list the towing eye, a veritable bargain at less the £10.
Just before Easter it was back on its wheels.
Then outside for a well deserved clean.
Didn't take long for Brian the Beagle to stage a sit in protest, of wanting a ride out.
The plan had been, the week after Easter I was going to MOT it as it ran out in March.
Missing the 6 month extension, it has sat since awaiting a decent run.
Love a W202, I had a lowly 240 V6 Sport, but to this day one of the nicest cars to drive I've owned - put 100K on it. Other than the triple valver liking a drop or two of oil it ran like a Swiss clock. Sold to a friend who took it well over the 200K mark. Your fleet are both lovely, I suspect the "C55" is a right handful. 
In my experience rust is very much colour dependent. I'm lucky that the 6 I have owned have come from Anglesey where due to the climate, road salt is seldom used. The smoke silver 1999 C240 Elegance my pal now has is totally rust free, sills, arches, blah. For a car that cost me £815 seven years ago with full MB service history, well, what can I say? Other than.....I want it back!
Nice motors OP.
I had a W202 220 Sport which really grew on me. The sports supension was well judged, and the engine/gearbox well matched.
The non rack and pinion steering was a little slow but accurate. Mine came with the cloth AMG seats and I found them comfortable. I even liked the "carbon" look interior. The four cylinder engine was quite rorty for a Merc too.
Managed to find two decent wings to replace the rusty ones and had electrical proplems with a relay in the boot, otherwise was fine.
Would love to try a V8 version at some point.
I had a W202 220 Sport which really grew on me. The sports supension was well judged, and the engine/gearbox well matched.
The non rack and pinion steering was a little slow but accurate. Mine came with the cloth AMG seats and I found them comfortable. I even liked the "carbon" look interior. The four cylinder engine was quite rorty for a Merc too.
Managed to find two decent wings to replace the rusty ones and had electrical proplems with a relay in the boot, otherwise was fine.
Would love to try a V8 version at some point.
Thanks for all the replies.
It's good to see some love for the oft overlooked W202.
The C36 is limited to 155mph, I expect the C43/55 is too.
Genuine C55's were delimited, along with a different transmission and bigger diff, requiring the reworking of the rear floor.
The UK conversion retains the C43 injection system, apparently it copes fine and does not lean off.
Tranny and diff are stock C43 too.
According to a GPS based 0-60 app, I have managed a 4.1s dash to 60.
power specs taken from period roadtests.
C36's; 280bhp, 284lbft @4000rpm
C43's; 306bhp, 302lbft @3250rpm
C55's; 347bhp, 376lbft @3000rpm
It's not too lairy, the snowflake ESP stops you getting in too much trouble.
Last year the two were part of a magazine article, the editor was rather taken with the C43/55.
It's good to see some love for the oft overlooked W202.
The C36 is limited to 155mph, I expect the C43/55 is too.
Genuine C55's were delimited, along with a different transmission and bigger diff, requiring the reworking of the rear floor.
The UK conversion retains the C43 injection system, apparently it copes fine and does not lean off.
Tranny and diff are stock C43 too.
According to a GPS based 0-60 app, I have managed a 4.1s dash to 60.
power specs taken from period roadtests.
C36's; 280bhp, 284lbft @4000rpm
C43's; 306bhp, 302lbft @3250rpm
C55's; 347bhp, 376lbft @3000rpm
It's not too lairy, the snowflake ESP stops you getting in too much trouble.
Last year the two were part of a magazine article, the editor was rather taken with the C43/55.
Notwen said:
Thanks for all the replies.
It's good to see some love for the oft overlooked W202.
The C36 is limited to 155mph, I expect the C43/55 is too.
Genuine C55's were delimited, along with a different transmission and bigger diff, requiring the reworking of the rear floor.
The UK conversion retains the C43 injection system, apparently it copes fine and does not lean off.
Tranny and diff are stock C43 too.
According to a GPS based 0-60 app, I have managed a 4.1s dash to 60.
power specs taken from period roadtests.
C36's; 280bhp, 284lbft @4000rpm
C43's; 306bhp, 302lbft @3250rpm
C55's; 347bhp, 376lbft @3000rpm
It's not too lairy, the snowflake ESP stops you getting in too much trouble.
Last year the two were part of a magazine article, the editor was rather taken with the C43/55.
The linear nature of the acceleration is impressive. 0 to 40 sub 2s is rapid!It's good to see some love for the oft overlooked W202.
The C36 is limited to 155mph, I expect the C43/55 is too.
Genuine C55's were delimited, along with a different transmission and bigger diff, requiring the reworking of the rear floor.
The UK conversion retains the C43 injection system, apparently it copes fine and does not lean off.
Tranny and diff are stock C43 too.
According to a GPS based 0-60 app, I have managed a 4.1s dash to 60.
power specs taken from period roadtests.
C36's; 280bhp, 284lbft @4000rpm
C43's; 306bhp, 302lbft @3250rpm
C55's; 347bhp, 376lbft @3000rpm
It's not too lairy, the snowflake ESP stops you getting in too much trouble.
Last year the two were part of a magazine article, the editor was rather taken with the C43/55.
MOTK said:
Great cars. My friend has had his C55 estate from new (1 of 7 rhd I believe!), over 200,000 miles now I think. Boy did it rust though :~(
Wow, I'm impressed (not at the rust, but that's part of 90's MB ownership)That would have been an expensive purchase back in the day. Car was circa £50k, the conversion £25k. the split rim 18" wheels were not far off a £5k option. I think 7 is being generous, I thought it was 5 RHD and only I of them was an estate.
Yeah I seem to remember seeing the original invoice, began with a 7
He went to Affalterbach to collect it.
Bar the rust that has marred it in later life that car is quite special. The engine output rating is conservative from this but dyno.
The conversion was quite an involved job I recall, didn't they modify the floor plan to fit the diff from the clk55 or something like that? There were quite a few differences to the 43 I believe.
He went to Affalterbach to collect it.Bar the rust that has marred it in later life that car is quite special. The engine output rating is conservative from this but dyno.
The conversion was quite an involved job I recall, didn't they modify the floor plan to fit the diff from the clk55 or something like that? There were quite a few differences to the 43 I believe.
The C55 conversion included the CLK55 transmission and diff, necessitating a reworked rear floor.
A higher final drive of 2.82:1, replacing the C43's 3.07:1.
The exhaust was supposed to be a little different, possibly rerouted due to the diff change.
Brakes and suspension were not changed IIRC.
The easiest spot of a genuine C55 is the 300kph/180mph speedo.
A higher final drive of 2.82:1, replacing the C43's 3.07:1.
The exhaust was supposed to be a little different, possibly rerouted due to the diff change.
Brakes and suspension were not changed IIRC.
The easiest spot of a genuine C55 is the 300kph/180mph speedo.
Notwen said:
The C55 conversion included the CLK55 transmission and diff, necessitating a reworked rear floor.
A higher final drive of 2.82:1, replacing the C43's 3.07:1.
The exhaust was supposed to be a little different, possibly rerouted due to the diff change.
Brakes and suspension were not changed IIRC.
The easiest spot of a genuine C55 is the 300kph/180mph speedo.
I find it incredible that a real 175mph derestricted was possible in a saloon all of those years ago!A higher final drive of 2.82:1, replacing the C43's 3.07:1.
The exhaust was supposed to be a little different, possibly rerouted due to the diff change.
Brakes and suspension were not changed IIRC.
The easiest spot of a genuine C55 is the 300kph/180mph speedo.
I feel that this model, even in basic specs will be strong money in years to come. The tin worm will obviously help that based upon numbers left in the future.
Great car and great story: thanks for posting.
Welshbeef said:
What existed before the C36 AMG? Or was this the start of this line of sports sedans?
As others have said, the C36 AMG was the first official collaboration. However, the w201 190 E 3.2 AMG was a semi-production model and could be ordered from the dealer (in Germany, at least); its engine was a 3.2litre version of the M103 12 valve straight six, not the later M104 24 valve job, and it made 231bhp. In many respects one can see that the watershed does not come with the C36 AMG but rather with the C43 AMG.Edited by r129sl on Thursday 11th June 15:35
r129sl said:
As others have said, the C36 AMG was the first official collaboration. However, the w201 190 E 3.2 AMG was a semi-production model and could be ordered from the dealer (in Germany, at least); its engine was a 3.2litre version of the M103 12 valve straight six, not the later M104 24 valve job, and it made 231bhp. In many respects one can see that the watershed does not come with the C36 AMG but rather with the C43 AMG.
Was the C43AMG up against the B5 RS4 bi turbo and E36 M3Evo/E46 M3?Edited by r129sl on Thursday 11th June 15:35
Welshbeef said:
Was the C43AMG up against the B5 RS4 bi turbo and E36 M3Evo/E46 M3?
Car magazine (Dec 97) and Autocar (March 98) road tests, pitched the C43 (£42k) against S4 (£36.5k) and E36 M3 (£38k [4 door]).Autocar magazine would take the M3 as a weekend car, S4 as a daily driver and the C43 "happily open the garage every morning to greet it"
Car magazine summary;
1st place S4 "Great engine, great chassis, great drive, less challenging than M3, but just as rewarding. Faster and cheaper too"
2nd place C43 "Power, poise and pedigree in abundance, Safe, comfortable, competent but puritanical. Thirsty and expensive too"
3rd place M3 "Wonderful car, dodgy transmission. best handler on a dry road, but pricier and ultimately less surefooted than the S4"
History would indicate otherwise, with the M3 outstripping the S4 and C43 by some margin.
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