Jaguar F-Pace Non Runner

Jaguar F-Pace Non Runner

Author
Discussion

Escy

Original Poster:

3,958 posts

151 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Fermit said:
Escy. How much of a big job would an engine transplant using a similar motor be? Say a BMW 320d engine, or whatever has similar mounting points, etc. Sure, it would be a task, but TBH you're currently facing a pretty gargantuan one with the current Jag engine.
Huge job, not close to feasible on something this modern. I also want it up and running by the end of the month.

carinaman

21,377 posts

174 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Escy said:
Fermit said:
Escy. How much of a big job would an engine transplant using a similar motor be? Say a BMW 320d engine, or whatever has similar mounting points, etc. Sure, it would be a task, but TBH you're currently facing a pretty gargantuan one with the current Jag engine.
Huge job, not close to feasible on something this modern. I also want it up and running by the end of the month.
If it's about running a car cheaply for a couple of years and then selling it for a decent price that wouldn't work with a completely different engine from another manufacturer in it.

shalmaneser

5,943 posts

197 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
What parts do you need to rebuild the motor? Excluding gasket set/sundries.

Rehone of the block, polish crankshaft, new pistons, camshaft (maybe) cam followers?

Doesn't seem that bad - could you get a second hand camshaft for example? Followers are presumably not mega money from JLR?

FourGears

270 posts

57 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Are you having new liners fitted?

What was the one replacement liner like?

With all you have found part of me thinks the failure was not down to one thing but a combination. Silicone snake restricting oil flow, blocked DPF etc.

I say that as a complete guess as opposed to having any actual knowledge.


The cam wear is odd why just that lobe?

TonyRPH

13,021 posts

170 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
FourGears said:
<snip>

The cam wear is odd why just that lobe?
Given the rumours about general poor quality of these engines, the odd cam wear could be just poor quality manufacture (uneven case hardening for example).

Or as others have said, a metal particle trapped in the oil, which found it's way to that exact spot and caused the damage - I would have thought it needed to be a hard particle though.

DuncanM

6,218 posts

281 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
This thread is like a horror movie, reading through my hands!

Really hope you get it fixed OP.

BigRusko

293 posts

96 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Escy said:
I hope it's not beyond mine but I might have bitten off more than I can chew.
Having watch you build 2 Porsches, I have no doubt in your abilities.

honest_delboy

1,519 posts

202 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Reading this thread has spurred my on to replace the boot struts on my Cayenne. If people are brace enough to tackle this stuff i can certainly pop off a few trim panels.

Jhonno

5,828 posts

143 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
honest_delboy said:
Reading this thread has spurred my on to replace the boot struts on my Cayenne. If people are brace enough to tackle this stuff i can certainly pop off a few trim panels.
laugh

Jhonno

5,828 posts

143 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
I'd be suspect taking it back to the same machine shop looking at the bores. They are pretty heavy honing marks and the piston/bore marks are worse than my TVR AJP when I rebuilt that!

Fermit

13,133 posts

102 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
carinaman said:
Escy said:
Fermit said:
Escy. How much of a big job would an engine transplant using a similar motor be? Say a BMW 320d engine, or whatever has similar mounting points, etc. Sure, it would be a task, but TBH you're currently facing a pretty gargantuan one with the current Jag engine.
Huge job, not close to feasible on something this modern. I also want it up and running by the end of the month.
If it's about running a car cheaply for a couple of years and then selling it for a decent price that wouldn't work with a completely different engine from another manufacturer in it.
That is something which I completely neglected to consider! I have no idea what an alternative engine swap would entail, but even excluding CM's valid point it wouldn't be viable.

Escy

Original Poster:

3,958 posts

151 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Big change of direction!


This morning I bought a used engine at a decent price. £2500. It's from an E-Pace, 2018, 31k miles. It's always a roll of the dice on a used engine, but I'm hopeful with that mileage although I have seen cases of JLR replacing engines that have failed with less!

The engine comes fully dressed up, all ancillaries, turbo, etc. The F-Pace is horizontally mounted so I'll need to change everything over but I've been told the blocks are the same.

I've been running the numbers and this is going to be cheaper than fixing my engine. I'll have parts to sell from this engine and from my old engine. My fag packet maths is

250 turbo
300 injectors
75 HP fuel pump
200 cylinder head
100 cam
50 sump
500 block (after re-hone)

Some will be more, some less, I'll also have lots of solenoids and stuff to sell. These numbers put me at £1025 for the replacement engine.

The cost to fix my current engine is looking like

850 - Turner engineering (rods, pistons, gasket set, oil cooler, etc)
400 - crank regrind with bearings (that's a rough guess and assuming the crank is serviceable, if not it'd be about £600)

So I'd be spending £1250+ to fix the current engine, more if I change the exhaust cam.

So it's looking like a no brainer, a replacement engine will work out cheaper, I'll be able to get it in and running much faster, no risk of getting something wrong/missing something and ending up with another failure. I feel much happier with this direction.

Just need to sort out collecting the engine now, it's in London.

samoht

5,805 posts

148 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all

Good move IMO, I'd fear it would be hard to get all the fragments out of the original engine and be sure everything was fixed.

Only issue now is dealing with the transverse / longitudinal differences, but hopefully should all be do-able.

Jhonno

5,828 posts

143 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Escy said:
Big change of direction!


This morning I bought a used engine at a decent price. £2500. It's from an E-Pace, 2018, 31k miles. It's always a roll of the dice on a used engine, but I'm hopeful with that mileage although I have seen cases of JLR replacing engines that have failed with less!

The engine comes fully dressed up, all ancillaries, turbo, etc. The F-Pace is horizontally mounted so I'll need to change everything over but I've been told the blocks are the same.

I've been running the numbers and this is going to be cheaper than fixing my engine. I'll have parts to sell from this engine and from my old engine. My fag packet maths is

250 turbo
300 injectors
75 HP fuel pump
200 cylinder head
100 cam
50 sump
500 block (after re-hone)

Some will be more, some less, I'll also have lots of solenoids and stuff to sell. These numbers put me at £1025 for the replacement engine.

The cost to fix my current engine is looking like

850 - Turner engineering (rods, pistons, gasket set, oil cooler, etc)
400 - crank regrind with bearings (that's a rough guess and assuming the crank is serviceable, if not it'd be about £600)

So I'd be spending £1250+ to fix the current engine, more if I change the exhaust cam.

So it's looking like a no brainer, a replacement engine will work out cheaper, I'll be able to get it in and running much faster, no risk of getting something wrong/missing something and ending up with another failure. I feel much happier with this direction.

Just need to sort out collecting the engine now, it's in London.
Possibly the best option here..

sbk1972

861 posts

78 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Tremendous thread.

Ive been in similar situations before where each option presented to me had pros / cons. Glad you went down a replacement engine as the original one had too many issues / risks.

Are you going to rip apart the replace engine and check all is well ? Whilst out I would probably double check the engine is healthy first as several replacement engines in my past, that had low mileage, where rubbish.

I hope the car gods shed some luck on you as you clearly deserve it. :-)

Keep going, be worth it in the end.

Oh yes, how come the drivers side carpet / sill is all torn up ?

Simon

Church of Noise

1,463 posts

239 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
That's very good news Escy!
Seems like the smartest way to handle it, taking out the parts that are still suspect on today...

B'stard Child

28,510 posts

248 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Escy said:
Big change of direction!


This morning I bought a used engine at a decent price. £2500. It's from an E-Pace, 2018, 31k miles. It's always a roll of the dice on a used engine, but I'm hopeful with that mileage although I have seen cases of JLR replacing engines that have failed with less!

The engine comes fully dressed up, all ancillaries, turbo, etc. The F-Pace is horizontally mounted so I'll need to change everything over but I've been told the blocks are the same.

I've been running the numbers and this is going to be cheaper than fixing my engine. I'll have parts to sell from this engine and from my old engine. My fag packet maths is

250 turbo
300 injectors
75 HP fuel pump
200 cylinder head
100 cam
50 sump
500 block (after re-hone)

Some will be more, some less, I'll also have lots of solenoids and stuff to sell. These numbers put me at £1025 for the replacement engine.

The cost to fix my current engine is looking like

850 - Turner engineering (rods, pistons, gasket set, oil cooler, etc)
400 - crank regrind with bearings (that's a rough guess and assuming the crank is serviceable, if not it'd be about £600)

So I'd be spending £1250+ to fix the current engine, more if I change the exhaust cam.

So it's looking like a no brainer, a replacement engine will work out cheaper, I'll be able to get it in and running much faster, no risk of getting something wrong/missing something and ending up with another failure. I feel much happier with this direction.

Just need to sort out collecting the engine now, it's in London.
As long as it's not from a place near Heathrow you've probably picked the right option biggrin

Megaflow

9,490 posts

227 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Escy said:
Big change of direction!


This morning I bought a used engine at a decent price. £2500. It's from an E-Pace, 2018, 31k miles. It's always a roll of the dice on a used engine, but I'm hopeful with that mileage although I have seen cases of JLR replacing engines that have failed with less!

The engine comes fully dressed up, all ancillaries, turbo, etc. The F-Pace is horizontally mounted so I'll need to change everything over but I've been told the blocks are the same.

I've been running the numbers and this is going to be cheaper than fixing my engine. I'll have parts to sell from this engine and from my old engine. My fag packet maths is

250 turbo
300 injectors
75 HP fuel pump
200 cylinder head
100 cam
50 sump
500 block (after re-hone)

Some will be more, some less, I'll also have lots of solenoids and stuff to sell. These numbers put me at £1025 for the replacement engine.

The cost to fix my current engine is looking like

850 - Turner engineering (rods, pistons, gasket set, oil cooler, etc)
400 - crank regrind with bearings (that's a rough guess and assuming the crank is serviceable, if not it'd be about £600)

So I'd be spending £1250+ to fix the current engine, more if I change the exhaust cam.

So it's looking like a no brainer, a replacement engine will work out cheaper, I'll be able to get it in and running much faster, no risk of getting something wrong/missing something and ending up with another failure. I feel much happier with this direction.

Just need to sort out collecting the engine now, it's in London.
A very sensible move.

The bit that surprises me is you refer to the F-Pace as being horizontally mounted, which I would know as longitudinal. Does that me the E-Pace is vertical/transverse? If so, that’s a surprise I thought the E-Pace and F-Pace were fundamentally the same car, not completely different. It’s not really a surprise Jaguar don’t make money when they are doing things like that.

mat205125

17,790 posts

215 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Megaflow said:
A very sensible move.

The bit that surprises me is you refer to the F-Pace as being horizontally mounted, which I would know as longitudinal. Does that me the E-Pace is vertical/transverse? If so, that’s a surprise I thought the E-Pace and F-Pace were fundamentally the same car, not completely different. It’s not really a surprise Jaguar don’t make money when they are doing things like that.
E-Pace is a Freelander Discovery Sport platform, isn't it?

ClaphamGT3

11,344 posts

245 months

Wednesday 4th January 2023
quotequote all
Escy said:
Big change of direction!


This morning I bought a used engine at a decent price. £2500. It's from an E-Pace, 2018, 31k miles. It's always a roll of the dice on a used engine, but I'm hopeful with that mileage although I have seen cases of JLR replacing engines that have failed with less!

The engine comes fully dressed up, all ancillaries, turbo, etc. The F-Pace is horizontally mounted so I'll need to change everything over but I've been told the blocks are the same.

I've been running the numbers and this is going to be cheaper than fixing my engine. I'll have parts to sell from this engine and from my old engine. My fag packet maths is

250 turbo
300 injectors
75 HP fuel pump
200 cylinder head
100 cam
50 sump
500 block (after re-hone)

Some will be more, some less, I'll also have lots of solenoids and stuff to sell. These numbers put me at £1025 for the replacement engine.

The cost to fix my current engine is looking like

850 - Turner engineering (rods, pistons, gasket set, oil cooler, etc)
400 - crank regrind with bearings (that's a rough guess and assuming the crank is serviceable, if not it'd be about £600)

So I'd be spending £1250+ to fix the current engine, more if I change the exhaust cam.

So it's looking like a no brainer, a replacement engine will work out cheaper, I'll be able to get it in and running much faster, no risk of getting something wrong/missing something and ending up with another failure. I feel much happier with this direction.

Just need to sort out collecting the engine now, it's in London.
This has got to be the sane way forward; one piece of swarf doesn't get blown out of an oilway on the rebuild of the old one and you're back to square one