Fisher Fury, impuse buy!
Discussion
Dr G said:
Excellent progress!
Could the noise relate to oil weight or temperature, perhaps?
We discussed it a few pages back and I'm now running 20w50 vr1 Motorsport oil it initially did help but now back to as it was. Could the noise relate to oil weight or temperature, perhaps?
I'm wondering if it's not running up to temp in this weather as the temp gauge does stay low although it's not the right sensor for the gauge got to bleed it tonight so might get the laser out as with the factory valve tolerances if anything it's a tad louder than it was. Maybe the valves aren't expanding as much as they should.
I suspect it doesn't have a thermostat or if it does it's died. As the coolant never suddenly goes. And the hoes all heat up at the same rate
BrettMRC said:
Can you run it up with some temporary shielding to prevent air flow?
...might be something you can have a little play around with on dyno as fan rates there can be dialled down a bit to see if it is a heat/viscosity issue or not?
Just thinking aloud really
Same! im clutching at straws. its defiantly work a shot. to be fair on the dyno i thik it will run hotter anyway. the fan does kick in and out but if the theres no thermostat. the head could still be running cooler. than it should. as the fan switch is in the rad. and ive no clue what temp its set too. ...might be something you can have a little play around with on dyno as fan rates there can be dialled down a bit to see if it is a heat/viscosity issue or not?
Just thinking aloud really
Zephyr Speedshop said:
Same! im clutching at straws. its defiantly work a shot. to be fair on the dyno i thik it will run hotter anyway. the fan does kick in and out but if the theres no thermostat. the head could still be running cooler. than it should. as the fan switch is in the rad. and ive no clue what temp its set too.
Have you got an infrared thermometer you can point at the hose?It won't exact as the hose will insulate, but you should get an idea by the temperature increase once it opens...
BrettMRC said:
Have you got an infrared thermometer you can point at the hose?
It won't exact as the hose will insulate, but you should get an idea by the temperature increase once it opens...
yeah thats the plan tonight when i get the coolant blead. as the head has coolant ports that ar blocked by the inlet manifold, so leaked some last night. It won't exact as the hose will insulate, but you should get an idea by the temperature increase once it opens...
its abit of a pita to blead as the exspantion tank is lower thanone hose and not a huge amount above the rad.
Zephyr Speedshop said:
its abit of a pita to blead as the exspantion tank is lower thanone hose and not a huge amount above the rad.
Do you have a bleed screw in the top of the radiator?If so, old Caterham trick (which suffered the same bleeding problems) is to raise the front of the car as high as possible before bleeding, so bleed screw is at the highest point.
jeremyc said:
Zephyr Speedshop said:
its abit of a pita to blead as the exspantion tank is lower thanone hose and not a huge amount above the rad.
Do you have a bleed screw in the top of the radiator?If so, old Caterham trick (which suffered the same bleeding problems) is to raise the front of the car as high as possible before bleeding, so bleed screw is at the highest point.
On the valve noise after speaking to Tony at Middle Barton garage he suggested the camshaft end float. Which is set by the gasket thickness on the cam cover. Which I didn't know.
I've nipped the covers out as much as I dare. And it seems better fingers crossed.
Dyno day today! The engine survived!
Left a little later than id like as guy said he wouldn't be ready till 10. So ended up in the rush hour nonsense in the m27 and m3. Car didn't miss a beat. Still have the cam noise! which seems better. But might be a placebo. After nipping the end covers up. Will definitely measure the end float see how tight I can get it.
106 miles is the longest I've gone it one sitting. And apart from the noise it's a pretty comfy and well Mannored car. Other than abit of tramlining, and useless wipers.
We checked the timing and it was only abit 1° out. So straight on the dyno, with a little adjustment .
And she put down a massive 101 bhp. And 80lbft
Guy set about doing the full throttle runs. And setting up the top end.
Culminating in a huge 108 bhp with the filters of. As the power wasn't rolling over we started uping the limiter.
Taking the limiter from 6500 to 7200 got us the the peak power of 115.9 bhp and that is at 7000rpm.
Video! She sounds glorious.
Guy set about all the steady state stuff and getting everything smoothed out with all the flat spots ironed out which there were a few. Especially in highload areas.
Apart from a small anomaly in the fueling.. around 6k that relates to a did in the curve. Guy was happy! Time for a final run with the air filter on and to have a play with the logging on this anomaly, as we wonderd if it was crank signal interference or another electrical thing. I also asked too move the rpm limit up abit more as I wanted to see it roll over. As it was only just plateauing at 7.2k I also don't want to be shifting up with 200rpm to spare.
Cue massive bang! Bits flying about and rear axle tying to lock. Initially I thought it was the gearbox. But it was actually the pinion shaft that let go.
It's not the best propshaft in the world but it's never given any sign of trouble untill 118mph on the rollers. Even then not even a whiff of vibration it just letgo at the limiter.
So whilst it's a sad end to the day I'm happy it s
t itself while strapped down on a controlled environment rather than on track or the road.
Still got the run graph. And with the filter 114bhp.
That didn't start today that looks like a possible heat treatment defect to me.
Chunks out of the dyno roller. Luckily guy is pretty chill.
The casualties are.
Crown and pinion
Propshaft
Fuel hoes p clips.
Hand brake cable.
Luckily my dad retired last year so. Was able to get him to pick me up. Got to love a dad's ! So set about pulling the diff out as we could only roll it backwards. And she obviously needed to be out of the dyno shed. And our the way.
I've bought the propshaft and diff home so I can sort them out ready to be stabbed back in. Too drive her home.
Poor little car looking quite sorry for itself
Most annoying thing I've not driven it with 15% gains. And all mapped.
Plan is see wether the pinion supplier agrees with me on that pinion shaft. And get a better propshaft made. Or at least repair this one to get her home.
Left a little later than id like as guy said he wouldn't be ready till 10. So ended up in the rush hour nonsense in the m27 and m3. Car didn't miss a beat. Still have the cam noise! which seems better. But might be a placebo. After nipping the end covers up. Will definitely measure the end float see how tight I can get it.
106 miles is the longest I've gone it one sitting. And apart from the noise it's a pretty comfy and well Mannored car. Other than abit of tramlining, and useless wipers.
We checked the timing and it was only abit 1° out. So straight on the dyno, with a little adjustment .
And she put down a massive 101 bhp. And 80lbft
Guy set about doing the full throttle runs. And setting up the top end.
Culminating in a huge 108 bhp with the filters of. As the power wasn't rolling over we started uping the limiter.
Taking the limiter from 6500 to 7200 got us the the peak power of 115.9 bhp and that is at 7000rpm.
Video! She sounds glorious.
Guy set about all the steady state stuff and getting everything smoothed out with all the flat spots ironed out which there were a few. Especially in highload areas.
Apart from a small anomaly in the fueling.. around 6k that relates to a did in the curve. Guy was happy! Time for a final run with the air filter on and to have a play with the logging on this anomaly, as we wonderd if it was crank signal interference or another electrical thing. I also asked too move the rpm limit up abit more as I wanted to see it roll over. As it was only just plateauing at 7.2k I also don't want to be shifting up with 200rpm to spare.
Cue massive bang! Bits flying about and rear axle tying to lock. Initially I thought it was the gearbox. But it was actually the pinion shaft that let go.
It's not the best propshaft in the world but it's never given any sign of trouble untill 118mph on the rollers. Even then not even a whiff of vibration it just letgo at the limiter.
So whilst it's a sad end to the day I'm happy it s
t itself while strapped down on a controlled environment rather than on track or the road. Still got the run graph. And with the filter 114bhp.
That didn't start today that looks like a possible heat treatment defect to me.
Chunks out of the dyno roller. Luckily guy is pretty chill.
The casualties are.
Crown and pinion
Propshaft
Fuel hoes p clips.
Hand brake cable.
Luckily my dad retired last year so. Was able to get him to pick me up. Got to love a dad's ! So set about pulling the diff out as we could only roll it backwards. And she obviously needed to be out of the dyno shed. And our the way.
I've bought the propshaft and diff home so I can sort them out ready to be stabbed back in. Too drive her home.
Poor little car looking quite sorry for itself
Most annoying thing I've not driven it with 15% gains. And all mapped.
Plan is see wether the pinion supplier agrees with me on that pinion shaft. And get a better propshaft made. Or at least repair this one to get her home.
Edited by Zephyr Speedshop on Tuesday 12th December 23:12
Yazza54 said:
Shame about the diff but it was gonna fail at some point so as you say better there than stranded out in the sticks somewhere.
Any more future plans to get some more grunt out of it?
not at the minute ive spent too much as it is. i think this will be enough. its not slow just not as punchy as i hoped but i think it might be now as that effectivly a 25/30% gain in bhp per ton. Any more future plans to get some more grunt out of it?
also a S1 elise was 116bhp and 700kg at launch and thats not a slow car i just need to settle into it and enjoy it now.
S1 Elise
700kg
116 bhp
121 lbft
5.9 to 60
126mph
165bhp per ton.
fury
590kg
114 bhp
94 lbft
? to 60
142mph (limiter in 5th) (118mph limiter in 4th)
190bhp per ton
all that said im still wondering about cams. but realistically i need vernier pulleys. and it will need to spin faster. so id be alot happier with arp bolts in the bottom end. but i cant find any i think ill need to speak to them or look through there lists. cam and pulleys is no change out of £1500 thats before tunning , and bolts.
maybe next year if i stop finding other issues
Looks like a nice smooth power curve which is the important bit from a driving point of view.
The 1.6tc Lampredi engine produced 105hp as standard with a single downdraught twin choke Weber carb at 5800rpm? so would have thought you have plenty of headroom there.
In a car so light I would imagine it goes well enough as is.
Great project.
The 1.6tc Lampredi engine produced 105hp as standard with a single downdraught twin choke Weber carb at 5800rpm? so would have thought you have plenty of headroom there.
In a car so light I would imagine it goes well enough as is.
Great project.
Never seen a pinion shaft fail like that. My TR7V8 did its pinion bearing in France soon after I bought it. The guys that rebuilt the diff said that the propshaft had a dodgy looking spacer betwixt prop & diff flange. They had a better one made as part of the rebuild. It never gave a problem after.
Bright Halo said:
Looks like a nice smooth power curve which is the important bit from a driving point of view.
The 1.6tc Lampredi engine produced 105hp as standard with a single downdraught twin choke Weber carb at 5800rpm? so would have thought you have plenty of headroom there.
In a car so light I would imagine it goes well enough as is.
Great project.
i feel like it is abit down on power, but i dont really know these engines that well. i think i just need to use it for abit. Guys dyno is always very accurate hes done alot of work to make it so, and its using SAE correction so does read abit lower than others. also we were seeing 40deg inlet temps so i defaitly need to look at geting cold air to the inlets. when i get the car back i will log the inlet temps on the road. as i think they will be better. but still they can deffinatly be improved. The 1.6tc Lampredi engine produced 105hp as standard with a single downdraught twin choke Weber carb at 5800rpm? so would have thought you have plenty of headroom there.
In a car so light I would imagine it goes well enough as is.
Great project.
the cost are eye watering now to do anything with it. everything ive done so far except the springs is useable with another engine. but id really like to keep this like engine its really really cool. and sounds mega.
if i decide to my plan would be cams, vernier pulleys. and increase the compression. if i could get it into the high 10s even 11s compression wise i think it would make a big differance. the head is ported but not sure how well so i thing i would have that looked at and have bigger valves and 3 angle seats cut if its not done already. and port match and polish the manifold and itbs. its not bad but there are a could of small steps.
that alot of cash to spend, i can porobably buy a 200bhp plus zetec and gearbox for that. and realistically only get to 130/140 bhp.
all that said. my old Z cars mini was powered by a k1 GSXR, 1000 engine which i think was 130bhp. nothing on the road was faster. timed it 0-60 @ 3.8 -3.9 seconds. now i know the gearing was a massive factor as it reved to 13k, but topped out in 6th at 120 . if the fury felt half as fast id be happy. the mini was way to fast to actually use on the road. (i didnt know any better as i was in my early twenties)
tr7v8 said:
Never seen a pinion shaft fail like that. My TR7V8 did its pinion bearing in France soon after I bought it. The guys that rebuilt the diff said that the propshaft had a dodgy looking spacer betwixt prop & diff flange. They had a better one made as part of the rebuild. It never gave a problem after.
im sending it back today so will see what they say! as i said i wasnt overly happy with the drive shaft but ut was giving absolutley no signs of and issue. so i think i was just unlucky. this happend at 7400rpm in 4th which i belive is 1-1 which tracks with the maths. Retro_Jim said:
It's unfortunate about the diff/prop but congrats on the 15% it'll be great to hear your thoughts once you've started to put some miles on it
thats the plan, just need to play with it for the summer now im sure lots of niggly jobs will get done. genuanly think it will be good at that power level. and ill get a slightly shorted FD again this time. Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff