500+bhp Mk3 Fiesta Project
Discussion
Over the past week I've become very interested in the Fiesta one again. Before the hiatus I completed the bulk of the work from the rear of the car to the front bulkhead, leaving the engine bay and management loom to finish, and as of yesterday I have resumed work on completing it.
Ford EECV Engine Management
The original plan was to use the Ford EECV engine management loom from a 2002 Mk5 Fiesta Zetec - matching the car loom I'd used - to run the fans, A/C, and provide the VSS, ECT etc. signals to the instrument cluster; actual engine management duties would be provided by separate Pectel T6 ECU. The Ford ECU will actually output the necessary signals and run the ancillaries providing it is supplied with a CPS signal; technically it will be in limp mode but that doesn't really matter given its purpose as a slave to the Pectel 'standalone' unit.
The Pectel unit is very old now but still well regarded, and is the ECU of choice for a tuner in the Ford scene who has a fair bit of experience tuning high power Zetec Turbo's on their engine dyno, which happened to be built by Ian. For me the downside to the Pectel is that it's 15 years old, still fetches around £2.5k for a loom and unlocked ECU, and I end up with the semi-redundant Ford ECU.
The management I've always liked is the Focus RS Mk1 EECV; EECV is fairly powerful and mass air based whereas the Pectel is speed density. I'd originally given up on the RS EECV because none of the tuners seemed to have the hang of mapping it, but things have changed:
The Sabre tune is on a rolling road and not an engine dyno, but I've decided to go for it and keep an open mind about going back to Pectel and an engine dyno mapping session, if for whatever reason I'm not happy with the result. Going for an EECV allows me to keep a factory wiring loom, EOBD2 diagnostics, and emissions control systems such as evap, and dual lambda. With an ever greater focus on emissions it may help me to keep running the car further into the future.
EECV PATS Security
The PATS security/immobiliser system integrated into EECV ECUs need two programmed keys to enable an end user to reprogram another without diagnostic equipment; there's a learning process that can be followed from the drivers' seat. The problem for a project car is most used ECUs only come with one key - if at all! The answer was always a trip to a main dealer for a PATS memory erasure and reprogram for a new set of keys. Expensive and a little difficult to arrange for a partially complete project car.
Following a bit of research today I've obtained a freeware tool which can erase an EECV PATS ECU key memory and reprogram via the EOBD2 port for a new set of keys.
The transponder in Ford keys can only be programmed once, but I've found new replacements are readily available separately for around £5. Here's the tiny ID60 transponder unit - about 25mm long x 4mm thick:
Based on my new found knowledge I bought a used Focus RS ECU that didn't come with a matching key. £49.99
I will swap the transponders in my existing Fiesta lock set with new replacements and then reprogram the RS ECU for the new transponders (keys).
My Fiesta and EECV
The Mk3 Fiesta used the EECIV generation of engine management which is very old now, but I’ve installed a modified loom from a 2002 petrol Fiesta (Mk5) which did have EECV - so I’m part way there – but, there’s a catch; there are two types of EECV architecture: 60 pin and 104 pin.
The 104 pin has more input and outputs, and is used for turbo applications and TDi cars requiring DBW, and electronic fuel pump control etc.
The Focus RS of course uses the 104 pin management so I need to figure out how to best integrate that into my car. Thankfully there was one model in the 1999-2002 Fiesta range which did have 104 pin EECV, and that was the 1.8 Endura-DI turbo diesel. A few years ago I had the foresight to buy a complete loom from an Endura-DI car with A/C and EHPAS (very rare) – just in case...
I’m now working through wiring diagrams to determine my plan of attack. I've spent some time comparing pinouts in Excel and unfortunately the Endura-DI loom isn't remotely similar to the pin configuration of the Focus RS, and it’s complicated further by a different wiring colour scheme for Focus RS and Fiesta, so I’m now at the stage of planning the optimal approach for converting a Fiesta engine bay loom and fusebox for Focus RS EECV.
Ford EECV Engine Management
The original plan was to use the Ford EECV engine management loom from a 2002 Mk5 Fiesta Zetec - matching the car loom I'd used - to run the fans, A/C, and provide the VSS, ECT etc. signals to the instrument cluster; actual engine management duties would be provided by separate Pectel T6 ECU. The Ford ECU will actually output the necessary signals and run the ancillaries providing it is supplied with a CPS signal; technically it will be in limp mode but that doesn't really matter given its purpose as a slave to the Pectel 'standalone' unit.
The Pectel unit is very old now but still well regarded, and is the ECU of choice for a tuner in the Ford scene who has a fair bit of experience tuning high power Zetec Turbo's on their engine dyno, which happened to be built by Ian. For me the downside to the Pectel is that it's 15 years old, still fetches around £2.5k for a loom and unlocked ECU, and I end up with the semi-redundant Ford ECU.
The management I've always liked is the Focus RS Mk1 EECV; EECV is fairly powerful and mass air based whereas the Pectel is speed density. I'd originally given up on the RS EECV because none of the tuners seemed to have the hang of mapping it, but things have changed:
The Sabre tune is on a rolling road and not an engine dyno, but I've decided to go for it and keep an open mind about going back to Pectel and an engine dyno mapping session, if for whatever reason I'm not happy with the result. Going for an EECV allows me to keep a factory wiring loom, EOBD2 diagnostics, and emissions control systems such as evap, and dual lambda. With an ever greater focus on emissions it may help me to keep running the car further into the future.
EECV PATS Security
The PATS security/immobiliser system integrated into EECV ECUs need two programmed keys to enable an end user to reprogram another without diagnostic equipment; there's a learning process that can be followed from the drivers' seat. The problem for a project car is most used ECUs only come with one key - if at all! The answer was always a trip to a main dealer for a PATS memory erasure and reprogram for a new set of keys. Expensive and a little difficult to arrange for a partially complete project car.
Following a bit of research today I've obtained a freeware tool which can erase an EECV PATS ECU key memory and reprogram via the EOBD2 port for a new set of keys.
The transponder in Ford keys can only be programmed once, but I've found new replacements are readily available separately for around £5. Here's the tiny ID60 transponder unit - about 25mm long x 4mm thick:
Based on my new found knowledge I bought a used Focus RS ECU that didn't come with a matching key. £49.99
I will swap the transponders in my existing Fiesta lock set with new replacements and then reprogram the RS ECU for the new transponders (keys).
My Fiesta and EECV
The Mk3 Fiesta used the EECIV generation of engine management which is very old now, but I’ve installed a modified loom from a 2002 petrol Fiesta (Mk5) which did have EECV - so I’m part way there – but, there’s a catch; there are two types of EECV architecture: 60 pin and 104 pin.
The 104 pin has more input and outputs, and is used for turbo applications and TDi cars requiring DBW, and electronic fuel pump control etc.
The Focus RS of course uses the 104 pin management so I need to figure out how to best integrate that into my car. Thankfully there was one model in the 1999-2002 Fiesta range which did have 104 pin EECV, and that was the 1.8 Endura-DI turbo diesel. A few years ago I had the foresight to buy a complete loom from an Endura-DI car with A/C and EHPAS (very rare) – just in case...
I’m now working through wiring diagrams to determine my plan of attack. I've spent some time comparing pinouts in Excel and unfortunately the Endura-DI loom isn't remotely similar to the pin configuration of the Focus RS, and it’s complicated further by a different wiring colour scheme for Focus RS and Fiesta, so I’m now at the stage of planning the optimal approach for converting a Fiesta engine bay loom and fusebox for Focus RS EECV.
Edited by mwstewart on Sunday 13th December 02:12
RumbleOfThunder said:
This is the "whoosh!" part of the build for me 
.
. EarlOfHazard said:
It's people like mwstewart that got the Vulcan in the air. Hey maybe that could be your next project?
Thank you, too kind - the people who do design and make those things are far more switched on than I am 
Incidentally my mate's Dad flies - or did fly - XH558. I was sad to see her retire.
Max_Torque said:
You're pretty much doing exactly what we did back in 2002 when we developed the Mk1 RS, ie chasing round the Ford Parts bin to find stuff that can be bodged together to make it work.... ;-)
(TBH, i'm bloody glad i've never had to use an Rcon ever again!)
(TBH, i'm bloody glad i've never had to use an Rcon ever again!)
AER said:
It wasn't a bodge! In the end Ford spent £300k on reworking the code to adopt boost control for the EEC-V.
All the earlier iterations were bodges though, I'll give you that!
Do either of you know what sort of RPM the FRS EEC-V ECU can cope with? Will it work with 8k? All the earlier iterations were bodges though, I'll give you that!
I've been told there's some kind of limitation restricting anything above 7k, which sounds low.
AER said:
It's over a decade since I worked on the project, so there's nothing that detailed left in my memory! I can't see why it wouldn't run to that speed, limiter notwithstanding. Nothing stopping you from testing to see what happens - just inject a dummy encoder signal into the cranks sensor input - the sort of things that arduinos do in my life these days...
Good idea, thanks. Excuse for me to play with an Arduino Max_Torque said:
The std lookup tables obviously will only be referenced to 7krpm (7200 rings a bell for some reason), which might be what people are talking about, but you need to just suitably modify the Axis lineariser parameter to have valid interpolation above that. AER might be able to remember where the std limiter was set? (6800??)
I've probably got a pre-production memory map archived somewhere (it won't be fully accurate for the production release, but there is a good chance it's just an ROM index offset away) I obviously can't just give it to you, but i'm sure if you wanted to know where specific values were located, i could give you some hints.........
Thanks Max, much appreciated. That's over my head but I will discuss with Sabre.I've probably got a pre-production memory map archived somewhere (it won't be fully accurate for the production release, but there is a good chance it's just an ROM index offset away) I obviously can't just give it to you, but i'm sure if you wanted to know where specific values were located, i could give you some hints.........
After my research into EECV I decided I just couldn't risk going to the effort of installing the system and being stuck with a 7k rev limit. In view of the that, today I purcahsed:
T6 Motorsport - Ex Carlos Sainz WRC. 4 cyl, boost control, and its unlocked. The benefit of the T6 is that one of the most experienced Zetec Turbo engine dyno mappers in the country has considerable experience with it.
Engine update to follow before summer.
T6 Motorsport - Ex Carlos Sainz WRC. 4 cyl, boost control, and its unlocked. The benefit of the T6 is that one of the most experienced Zetec Turbo engine dyno mappers in the country has considerable experience with it.
Engine update to follow before summer.
Awesome-Asam said:
Hi,I would like to say, wow what a awesome job. Hats off. I too have Ap racing calipers that I'm looking at painting. I have a few questions. Did you use etch primer then primer over the top before applying your base coat? How much paint did you use? And do you know what paint you used for the logos? Many thanks.
Thank you. The yellow is Tamiya model paint (enamel). Yes - etch as the base. sc0tt said:
Did you ever drive this is standard guise?
I had one when I was 17. Brings back fond memories. Same colour as yours after the paint job.
No idea if they were all like it but I could do 45mph in first gear.
Yes, I had quite a few of them. Modern hatches don't come close to the fun I had one when I was 17. Brings back fond memories. Same colour as yours after the paint job.
No idea if they were all like it but I could do 45mph in first gear.
Returning to this and I've decided to go back to a slightly more period wheel that was later associated with the Mk3 Fiesta, so I'm going to have my Mondeo wheels refurbished.
I have a set of the rare 7J ET35 version of the 16" wheels, but one of mine is slightly out of true so I'm looking for another.
Do any Ford people know of one for sale?
I have a set of the rare 7J ET35 version of the 16" wheels, but one of mine is slightly out of true so I'm looking for another.
Do any Ford people know of one for sale?
E36Ross said:
I don't know of any for sale, But if you happen to find a set i may take 1 or 2 of them. Need matching wheels for my Fiesta trailer.
Cheers. I'll let you know.Jimbo NW said:
Nothing useful to add Mark other than I've followed all of your threads and this by far is my favourite!
Could I ask a favour please? Looked but couldn't see, you referred somewhere to a solution that brings bolts / nuts back up really good but I can't find it, I don't suppose you can remember the name off hand do you?
I use brick cleaner/acid to strip rust from parts and it does a good job, but its not ideal for nuts and bolts because they will need a protective coating re-applying and most paint is too thick to use on threaded areas. Could I ask a favour please? Looked but couldn't see, you referred somewhere to a solution that brings bolts / nuts back up really good but I can't find it, I don't suppose you can remember the name off hand do you?
Frost sell a home plating kit which is good if you have the patience. Once the parts are re-plated I tend to spray a coat of zinc primer on the exterior for added protection.
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