Mercedes W124 E300D estate - progress, or not...
Discussion
My mechanic has admitted defeat on finding a reliable injector specialist locally, so I have the car back. I'm currently debating whether to take it on a trip up to York tomorrow (600 mile round trip) or go with the safe yet non-barge option.
He has changed over the duo valve, so the car now has working heating (hooray!) but the exhaust is starting to blow more (boo!)
We have agreed, though, that he's generally happy to fit parts to the car if I can supply the parts. He's a good guy and it's a reasonable approach, so I'll probably go to him on stuff that doesn't need specialist diagnostic knowledge.
Plus, he has peacocks.
He has changed over the duo valve, so the car now has working heating (hooray!) but the exhaust is starting to blow more (boo!)
We have agreed, though, that he's generally happy to fit parts to the car if I can supply the parts. He's a good guy and it's a reasonable approach, so I'll probably go to him on stuff that doesn't need specialist diagnostic knowledge.
Plus, he has peacocks.
It's got some injector cleaner in - apparently it's the strong stuff - so I'm hoping the car starts okay this morning, and I can justify giving it a run out.
I've got some Wynns Formula Gold newly waiting in the wings, but I guess I should go through most of the tank before adding anything else - some seem to recommend against mixing additives, and I don't know what brand is already in there.
Mechanic thinks the cleaner didn't help, but it sounds like he didn't have time to go for a drive as such (which is fine - he hasn't charged me for the whole time he worked on the car) so I'm hoping that a longer time running & real-world revs may help.
As long as my next update isn't from the side of the road, I'll be okay with it.
I've got some Wynns Formula Gold newly waiting in the wings, but I guess I should go through most of the tank before adding anything else - some seem to recommend against mixing additives, and I don't know what brand is already in there.
Mechanic thinks the cleaner didn't help, but it sounds like he didn't have time to go for a drive as such (which is fine - he hasn't charged me for the whole time he worked on the car) so I'm hoping that a longer time running & real-world revs may help.
As long as my next update isn't from the side of the road, I'll be okay with it.
I haven't noticed soot on the run today, but the car seemed to start easier this morning so the mechanic's injector cleaner has maybe done something.
Good trip up, albeit not at r129sl speeds. The car seems fairly happy with the needle sitting straight up, although I'm used to a tdi so the revs felt high. Plus I think the exhaust is getting louder. Something else for the list!
Good trip up, albeit not at r129sl speeds. The car seems fairly happy with the needle sitting straight up, although I'm used to a tdi so the revs felt high. Plus I think the exhaust is getting louder. Something else for the list!
Today's mileage is twelve times what the car drove from May to January, so it's definitely been shaken from its slumbers.
Thanks for the pointer on injector refurbish - if it still seems a problem after this weekend, id be tempted to get whatever parts are needed for the inlet manifold remove/replace cycle (and, perhaps anything worth doing while it's off), then asking my man to have the car back, whip the injectors out and up to Tyne, and go from there.
Exhaust had a tiny hole just at the back of the section in front of the back box section (if that makes any sense - looking at pics of replacement exhausts, it looks like it's essentially two sections after the manifolds, so I'm talking about the back end of the front piece) and I wonder whether that's opening up and making the car gruffer.
Now that I've had the car back for a couple of days, I think I have a better handle on the starting issues:
- The faulty glow plug (#1 I think) and/or damaged wiring connector is causing the glow plug light not to come on before startup, and instead it comes on after the engine is running (from memory, several seconds to a minute after).
- The other issue is that, during a cold start, the engine doesn't want to run on all cylinders. It feels like one of the cylinders gradually stutters into life, and then fires more regularly until it's up to speed. Someone mentioned a possibly sticky valve, and that somehow feels more feasible, but as I have little mechanical experience it could easily be a cylinder-firing thing, rather than a valve-unsticking thing. It'll be interesting to see how things are in the morning.
Oh, and I have something rotational squeaking, seemingly on the back end. I'd assume it was a brake, but none of the wheels felt particularly warm after 115 miles, so I remain clueless.
Thanks for the pointer on injector refurbish - if it still seems a problem after this weekend, id be tempted to get whatever parts are needed for the inlet manifold remove/replace cycle (and, perhaps anything worth doing while it's off), then asking my man to have the car back, whip the injectors out and up to Tyne, and go from there.
Exhaust had a tiny hole just at the back of the section in front of the back box section (if that makes any sense - looking at pics of replacement exhausts, it looks like it's essentially two sections after the manifolds, so I'm talking about the back end of the front piece) and I wonder whether that's opening up and making the car gruffer.
Now that I've had the car back for a couple of days, I think I have a better handle on the starting issues:
- The faulty glow plug (#1 I think) and/or damaged wiring connector is causing the glow plug light not to come on before startup, and instead it comes on after the engine is running (from memory, several seconds to a minute after).
- The other issue is that, during a cold start, the engine doesn't want to run on all cylinders. It feels like one of the cylinders gradually stutters into life, and then fires more regularly until it's up to speed. Someone mentioned a possibly sticky valve, and that somehow feels more feasible, but as I have little mechanical experience it could easily be a cylinder-firing thing, rather than a valve-unsticking thing. It'll be interesting to see how things are in the morning.
Oh, and I have something rotational squeaking, seemingly on the back end. I'd assume it was a brake, but none of the wheels felt particularly warm after 115 miles, so I remain clueless.
Edited by Northbrook on Friday 29th March 10:10
I was hooked after a test drive!
More running fun this morning - started up fine, ran less poorly than before....then swiftly slowed down to a stall, and then simply refused to restart. After leaving it for half an hour, I got the car running after plenty of tries and with my foot on the floor. Cue lots of greyish smoke (much appreciated in a fresh Yorkshire valley, I'm sure). Eventually conked out again after running with a careful foot on the throttle for a couple of minutes. Again with the non-starting, but coaxed back into life and eventually running well enough for a spin up the lane and back.
I'm puzzled, because the car - after the first time - didn't seem to be missing as badly (or at all) but the refusal to start is new.
Old cars!
More running fun this morning - started up fine, ran less poorly than before....then swiftly slowed down to a stall, and then simply refused to restart. After leaving it for half an hour, I got the car running after plenty of tries and with my foot on the floor. Cue lots of greyish smoke (much appreciated in a fresh Yorkshire valley, I'm sure). Eventually conked out again after running with a careful foot on the throttle for a couple of minutes. Again with the non-starting, but coaxed back into life and eventually running well enough for a spin up the lane and back.
I'm puzzled, because the car - after the first time - didn't seem to be missing as badly (or at all) but the refusal to start is new.
Old cars!
It could easily be the confluence of a couple of different issues.
The glow plug that's not working (and not connected) will have some influence on general starting performance. It's certainly a pain to know whether the plugs have come on & gone off.
There could well be a fuel flow issue to contend with, although it initially started up fine, and only fell over later. Not sure if that might rule it out as a cause - the car was parked side-on on a hill, which I haven't had before. I'm familiar with the idea that the car could go through the fuel it had available then starve, but it ran for a minute or more before the revs dipped and it died.
Interestingly, the second time it happened this morning, the revs dipped noticeably a few times despite a constant throttle foot - causing me to add throttle - until it eventually died.
I'll have to see how it behaves in the morning, and/or when I get back to it this evening.
The glow plug that's not working (and not connected) will have some influence on general starting performance. It's certainly a pain to know whether the plugs have come on & gone off.
There could well be a fuel flow issue to contend with, although it initially started up fine, and only fell over later. Not sure if that might rule it out as a cause - the car was parked side-on on a hill, which I haven't had before. I'm familiar with the idea that the car could go through the fuel it had available then starve, but it ran for a minute or more before the revs dipped and it died.
Interestingly, the second time it happened this morning, the revs dipped noticeably a few times despite a constant throttle foot - causing me to add throttle - until it eventually died.
I'll have to see how it behaves in the morning, and/or when I get back to it this evening.
Edited by Northbrook on Friday 29th March 17:23
Started & ran okay back from York to Harrogate last night - some smoking and stumbling to start off with, but after a couple of minutes all was fine.
Started this morning, and ran with some persuasion. The usual stumbling & smoking, but kept going, unlike yesterday. Parked nose-up last night, rather than on a cross-slope, so perhaps that made a difference. Not sure if indicative of anything.
I'm back thinking of glow plugs. It strikes me that a cylinder firing occasionally until warmer sounds like that issue (at least) is engine temp related. My uninformed brain thinks that an injector would be a longer-lasting issue (?)
Started this morning, and ran with some persuasion. The usual stumbling & smoking, but kept going, unlike yesterday. Parked nose-up last night, rather than on a cross-slope, so perhaps that made a difference. Not sure if indicative of anything.
I'm back thinking of glow plugs. It strikes me that a cylinder firing occasionally until warmer sounds like that issue (at least) is engine temp related. My uninformed brain thinks that an injector would be a longer-lasting issue (?)
Good suggestions!
Fuel filters in the engine bay were changed by the mechanic last week. Tank strainer.... I doubt has been done any time recently.
I think I'll look at the glow plugs next. Car will need to go in again in the next few weeks for pre MOT prep, so that might be a good time for tank strainer.
And exhaust.
And probably welding.
Fuel filters in the engine bay were changed by the mechanic last week. Tank strainer.... I doubt has been done any time recently.
I think I'll look at the glow plugs next. Car will need to go in again in the next few weeks for pre MOT prep, so that might be a good time for tank strainer.
And exhaust.
And probably welding.
Oh, and I just refilled for the trip home tomorrow.
350ish miles (250 on the run up, 100 of mixed driving while here) plus more idling & stationary than I'd normally do.
44ish litres. 36mpg isn't bad for a slightly-poorly 6 cylinder 4-speed auto! 3000 revs at 70ish feels like a bit of a thrash, but the economy is okay for a big boat.
350ish miles (250 on the run up, 100 of mixed driving while here) plus more idling & stationary than I'd normally do.
44ish litres. 36mpg isn't bad for a slightly-poorly 6 cylinder 4-speed auto! 3000 revs at 70ish feels like a bit of a thrash, but the economy is okay for a big boat.
Yesterday's trip back home (boo) went fairly well. I'd again parked nose-up, and didn't have a repeat of the side-on starting problems I had a couple of days ago. I guess I'll steer clear of repeating that for the time being.
One small issue with running, once the initial starting smoke cleared (although it's less bad than before) - after c100 miles of clear running, I had to stop at a red light, and the idle dropped to where the battery light started to flicker. I added a smidge of throttle, and the problem didn't recur.
Now, moving on: I think I should get some parts in. If anyone with superior parts catalogue experience can advice, it'd be much appreciated.
Glow plugs: A001 159 15 01 or A001 159 16 01? Not sure of the difference. I'll be going for Beru.
Inlet manifold: what expected-breakage bits should I get in before the IM comes off?
What other stuff is worth replacing while the IM is off? (Or, once the bits that break have been done, will the IM come off more easily after that?)
The MOT is due next month, so I don't want to go crazy but I do want to get things done if they need doing, or it makes sense while things are apart.
Thanks!
One small issue with running, once the initial starting smoke cleared (although it's less bad than before) - after c100 miles of clear running, I had to stop at a red light, and the idle dropped to where the battery light started to flicker. I added a smidge of throttle, and the problem didn't recur.
Now, moving on: I think I should get some parts in. If anyone with superior parts catalogue experience can advice, it'd be much appreciated.
Glow plugs: A001 159 15 01 or A001 159 16 01? Not sure of the difference. I'll be going for Beru.
Inlet manifold: what expected-breakage bits should I get in before the IM comes off?
What other stuff is worth replacing while the IM is off? (Or, once the bits that break have been done, will the IM come off more easily after that?)
The MOT is due next month, so I don't want to go crazy but I do want to get things done if they need doing, or it makes sense while things are apart.
Thanks!
Thanks again - it's great to be able to confer with people who've been there already.
I'm becoming more convinced that the glow plug issue is at least a good part of my problem. It seems logical to me that the colder weather - and lack of fuel warming on at least one cylinder - is causing an unburned dual problem, which prompts some misfiring and a goodly level of white/grey smoke (repeating myself because I'm not 100%, and trying to summarise). I think the #1 GP, which was apparently toast and now also isn't even wired in, needs to be hoiked out and replaced.
So I opened the bonnet to double-check how easy it'd be. And.... it doesn't look as easy as I thought. Access quite limited by the main part of the intake manifold. Bugger. Sounds like an IM-off job, and I'm not sure I'm up for doing that by the roadside (or, in fact, at all).
And then I thought I'd start up while the bonnet was up. And it started straight away (~7 hours from last run) but smoked a little and didn't want to run without throttle for a couple of mins.
So far, so kinda-expected.
Except.....
The clear fuel lines have bubbles in. A fair number of bubbles. And that was after the engine had been running for a couple of minutes.
Bugger.
(I have a video, if anyone is interested, but no clue how to upload)
Guess that means the IM needs to come off! I'm not, to my knowledge, noticing any fuel-supply issues - except that one time, at band camp - but it seems best to deal with that while the IM is off.
So, at this point I'm drawing up a list of things to be done, and parts I need to buy. I'm hoping I can give the job to my local Man, because I trust him and he's local. Not sure what to do about the injectors at this point - it'd save some money not to disturb them at the moment, and possibly he could deal with a couple of things without fiddling with them:
- Glow plug replacement
- Clear fuel line replacement
- Check engine running with IM off, looking for blowback (?) on the rear cylinder intake valves.
Proposed parts list will follow, but does this sound reasonable?
I'm becoming more convinced that the glow plug issue is at least a good part of my problem. It seems logical to me that the colder weather - and lack of fuel warming on at least one cylinder - is causing an unburned dual problem, which prompts some misfiring and a goodly level of white/grey smoke (repeating myself because I'm not 100%, and trying to summarise). I think the #1 GP, which was apparently toast and now also isn't even wired in, needs to be hoiked out and replaced.
So I opened the bonnet to double-check how easy it'd be. And.... it doesn't look as easy as I thought. Access quite limited by the main part of the intake manifold. Bugger. Sounds like an IM-off job, and I'm not sure I'm up for doing that by the roadside (or, in fact, at all).
And then I thought I'd start up while the bonnet was up. And it started straight away (~7 hours from last run) but smoked a little and didn't want to run without throttle for a couple of mins.
So far, so kinda-expected.
Except.....
The clear fuel lines have bubbles in. A fair number of bubbles. And that was after the engine had been running for a couple of minutes.
Bugger.
(I have a video, if anyone is interested, but no clue how to upload)
Guess that means the IM needs to come off! I'm not, to my knowledge, noticing any fuel-supply issues - except that one time, at band camp - but it seems best to deal with that while the IM is off.
So, at this point I'm drawing up a list of things to be done, and parts I need to buy. I'm hoping I can give the job to my local Man, because I trust him and he's local. Not sure what to do about the injectors at this point - it'd save some money not to disturb them at the moment, and possibly he could deal with a couple of things without fiddling with them:
- Glow plug replacement
- Clear fuel line replacement
- Check engine running with IM off, looking for blowback (?) on the rear cylinder intake valves.
Proposed parts list will follow, but does this sound reasonable?
Glow plugs:
Injectors:
Inlet manifold refit (injector socket needed for injector removal):
Clear fuel lines:
- Beru GN860 plugs (aka MB 001 159 15 01 or 16 01) x6
- Wire-to-plug connector on #1 (p/n unknown)
Injectors:
- Possible rebuild of injectors
- Washer/heat shield (A 601 017 00 60) x6
Inlet manifold refit (injector socket needed for injector removal):
- IM internal clean
- Injector return pipework (A 615 476 03 26) enough for >1.5m if sold by length
- Injector #6 blanking plug (A 604 070 02 55) x2 (spare!)
- Crankcase breather pipework (per r129sl diagram, parts 56, 59, 62, 44, 41, 47, 53, 50, 32, 30, 35; quantities per 7zap list)
- IM gasket (A 606 141 00 80) x1
Clear fuel lines:
- Lines 65, 86, 119, 89 & 110 of the below diagram, plus any required fittings for those lines.
This is true.
I'll send my parts list to my local MB dealer for them to price up - they're literally up the road - and ping off some enquiries to a few places that will/should know these cars.
I am even tempted by the Baister option, although that's a touch more travelling than I was hoping for.
I'll send my parts list to my local MB dealer for them to price up - they're literally up the road - and ping off some enquiries to a few places that will/should know these cars.
I am even tempted by the Baister option, although that's a touch more travelling than I was hoping for.
Thanks, Ian. The fun GP will be #1, which we know is seized. The misfiring is significantly less now, so part of me would like the issue to just be glow plug related, rather than dealing with injectors too. But, to be honest, the extra cost (£24 plus VAT plus parts, per injector, from Tyne per r129sl's suggestion), while it's something I'd prefer not to pay out, would at least mean that they would be done.
I've got some bits coming in now, with more to come from MB. Viton o rings have been ordered, and aren't expensive. I'm hoping this will be a fix-once situation, on injectors, glow plugs & fuel lines, then that's an area I can be comfortable with for a while.
I've got some bits coming in now, with more to come from MB. Viton o rings have been ordered, and aren't expensive. I'm hoping this will be a fix-once situation, on injectors, glow plugs & fuel lines, then that's an area I can be comfortable with for a while.
When I've been to Goodwood Revival, I particularly like the cars that have been in their families for a while, and have stories to tell, compared to the perfectly-restored ones that, while visually perfect, look like they live a sanitised life. I'm hoping that this car will stay with me for some time - it's a pleasure to toddle around in.
It's a good question on the MOT front, as that's due next month. My original plan was for my Man to look the car over the last time he had it, but that didn't work out (to be fair, he was expecting a less intensive job than it turned out to be, so no criticism).
Aside from the mechanical work that's coming up, the car is working pretty effectively. For the MOT I'm concerned about:
- Emissions;
- Holed p/side front wing;
- Holed front inner wings;
- Any scary rust;
- Exhaust leak;
- Handbrake strength.
Exhaust will be on my list - hopefully it can be patched to eke out a little more life but, if not and the problem is the pipe just after the cat, the cat pipe can be sourced for ~£80.
Handbrake may be fine.
Not sure if the front rust would be a failure point, nor whether there's any more lurking around. The car has been up on 4 lifts in the time I've had it and, other than the first place, no-one has mentioned a rust problem, so my fingers are firmly crossed.
So, exhaust will get done (hopefully cheaply!) and I'm currently not expecting much more than that.... but I will ask my Man to give it a good look over.
Another thing: just bought a couple of 15-hole alloys, so I can have an alloy spare and ditch the extra nuts for the steel. Need a tyre for the spare, which (I guess) needs to be no-directional as it might go on either side, and ideally decent but not expensive. Suggestions welcomed.
It's a good question on the MOT front, as that's due next month. My original plan was for my Man to look the car over the last time he had it, but that didn't work out (to be fair, he was expecting a less intensive job than it turned out to be, so no criticism).
Aside from the mechanical work that's coming up, the car is working pretty effectively. For the MOT I'm concerned about:
- Emissions;
- Holed p/side front wing;
- Holed front inner wings;
- Any scary rust;
- Exhaust leak;
- Handbrake strength.
Exhaust will be on my list - hopefully it can be patched to eke out a little more life but, if not and the problem is the pipe just after the cat, the cat pipe can be sourced for ~£80.
Handbrake may be fine.
Not sure if the front rust would be a failure point, nor whether there's any more lurking around. The car has been up on 4 lifts in the time I've had it and, other than the first place, no-one has mentioned a rust problem, so my fingers are firmly crossed.
So, exhaust will get done (hopefully cheaply!) and I'm currently not expecting much more than that.... but I will ask my Man to give it a good look over.
Another thing: just bought a couple of 15-hole alloys, so I can have an alloy spare and ditch the extra nuts for the steel. Need a tyre for the spare, which (I guess) needs to be no-directional as it might go on either side, and ideally decent but not expensive. Suggestions welcomed.
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