480 bhp and 1360 kg Saab 9000 Aero

[HybridAero]

Immediate plans are as follows:

- Full service
- New brake light, rear left door and front wings off a breaker car
- Brake caliper respray in black
- New OZ centre cap for front right wheel
- Remove towing strap
- Remove stickers
- Churchill dog for the rear parcel shelf
- Meet the previous owner for a mapping session as AFR is reading too high at WOT in 3rd (running too lean)
- Powerful rear speakers (currently no speakers in rear)

Longer term:

- Get LSD installed
- OMP flocked steering wheel
- Sparco Evo 3 bucket seats
- Willans harnesses

Bucket list:

- Quaife 6 speed gearbox (dogbox)
- (or) 4WD conversion
- Full concourse bare metal respray in black

Edited by HybridAero on Monday 9th October 20:01

[madwrx]

HybridAero said:

Hmm maybe the more aggressive cams as a trade off affect low end driveability?

your not usually talking about n/a car type race cams though -turbo grinds just tend to flow more right through the range and are likely to improve spool if anything- my own car is just a bit iffy on idle(just as likely to be non standard inlet sizes) but just hauls as normal after 2krpm -mine is on 272 fast road jobbies. sound like you would benefit from mapping or a more precise aftermarket ecu...

the guy who mapped my syvecs spent literally only 25minutes doing the power phase of the map 3800 to 7700rpm redline butttt spent the next 3 hours getting the idle and low rev spool and drivabillity spot on ,it really does take a good time to optomise it all.

i can fully appreciate where you are though- the previous engine that went pop -had incorrectly timed cams and a piss poor map and it was literally like a switch had been turned on at 4100rpm.
made it impossible to drive in top gear under 85mph,,, it was flat as a pan .

i do have to say your standard dash boost gauge was making boost at circa 3krpm though

[HybridAero]

madwrx said:

your not usually talking about n/a car type race cams though -turbo grinds just tend to flow more right through the range and are likely to improve spool if anything- my own car is just a bit iffy on idle(just as likely to be non standard inlet sizes) but just hauls as normal after 2krpm -mine is on 272 fast road jobbies. sound like you would benefit from mapping or a more precise aftermarket ecu...

the guy who mapped my syvecs spent literally only 25minutes doing the power phase of the map 3800 to 7700rpm redline butttt spent the next 3 hours getting the idle and low rev spool and drivabillity spot on ,it really does take a good time to optomise it all.

i can fully appreciate where you are though- the previous engine that went pop -had incorrectly timed cams and a piss poor map and it was literally like a switch had been turned on at 4100rpm.
made it impossible to drive in top gear under 85mph,,, it was flat as a pan .

i do have to say your standard dash boost gauge was making boost at circa 3krpm though

Yeh will get a proper live mapping session done soon. True it does hit full boost just over 3k which isn't much later than the 19t; I guess it helps being a ball bearing turbo.

Here's some vids by the previous owner..

Thrashing it around Blyton Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqsAjI36p2I

Gearbox blowing up at Snetterton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIftka86p8Q

Scaring his mate silly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqQbZzhKVDg

Dyno where it made 462 bhp 490 lb ft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCxnMLKX7T0

[HybridAero]

New oil arrived ready for a service.



Having spoken to a friend about the rust concerns we're going to make fibreglass boot, bonnet and front wings. This combined with rear seat removal and bucket seats will make this a sub 1200 kg car!

[madwrx]

absolutely love it -thats my kind of sleeper -pure nutter in a frumpy saab body lol
i would,nt worry about lag as taking shares in kwikfit for new tyres lol.

in all honesty that looks half as laggy as most of the big power 4 cylinder cars i,ve been in. -a lot of the wheelspin could be reduced with a softer boost map ,all the power seems to come in at once overwhelming the front tyres mate , if you cant put it down your just waiting for the torque to reduce to a level where it does,nt spin the wheels.(or one wheel on a standard diff)

how much is a an lsd? this would help loads although it may tend to just move problems to the next weakest area ie driveshafts, box or clutch- unfortunately thats often the way it goes lol

been using millers for years and have never had any problems at all with it -although it is,nt in there too long,after 3k miles its probably 10% petrol in mine ,

[madwrx]

just noticed you listed a quaife lsd in your description -

[HybridAero]

madwrx said:

just noticed you listed a quaife lsd in your description -

Yes needs fitting though! Running a stock box atm, thing is even with an LSD 2nd is 'off limits', so not sure if it's even worth bothering.

[HybridAero]

madwrx said:

after 3k miles its probably 10% petrol in mine

What do you mean by that?

[HybridAero]

While the structural rust has been sorted, externally the 9000 leaves a lot to be desired.

All part of the fun though having some little jobs to do!

Here's the bad bits that I plan to sort over the next couple of weeks:

New tail light cover/lense:




New front wings needed (to be replaced by fibreglass items as A: lighter and B: refurbed would only rust again






New rear left door - Easier to swap for a mint silver one than fanny around banging dents out:




This is where it gets a little complicated! Not sure how I'm going to sort this area but where there's a will there's a way!

[Nutty9000]

Scobblelotcher said:

Awesome build! I followed the previous thread as well.

In what gear are you able to go full power? Also has it ever been timed? I’m curious of the numbers as I’d imagine it takes careful application if the throttle to get it launched well.

If you ever record it I’d love to hear how it sounds! ??

Regarding timing, I've timed the speedo at 8.6 seconds from 100-200 km/h in this vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc_CvBCLCfc

For reference, a Murcielago takes around 9 seconds, so naturally I had to make a comparison vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3rjoU7WeGM

And compared to the 9-5, that took 10.5 seconds for the same increment; the 9k really is in a different league!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukU_OcusSH0


Some more 100-200 km/h times for reference:

7.2 - SLR
7.8 - Murci LP640
7.9 - C6 Z06
8.0 - Ford GT
8.4 - 997TT
8.4 - F430
8.4 - 996 GT2
8.6 - M6
8.7 - SL65 AMG
8.8 - Gallardo Superleggera
8.8 - M5
8.9 - S65 AMG
9.0 - 996TT X50/Turbo 'S'
9.1 - Gallardo SE
9.7 - 996TT- 9.7
10.0 - E55 AMG
10.2 - 996 GT3
10.2- Viper SRT-10
10.5 - E63 AMG
10.8 - 993TT
11.2 - AM Vanquish S
11.2 - Audi RS-4 (2007)
11.3 - Audi RS-6
11.6 - SLK-55 “Black” series
11.8 - Bentley Continental GT

Source: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-turbo-gt2/...

Obviously need a VBox to verify.

Edited by Nutty9000 on Wednesday 11th October 22:03

[Nutty9000]

Few teething issues:

- Seems to get through a lot of oil, it is leaking a little but not loads. Will keep topping it up but does anyone know what could be causing this? It's been bored/stroked from 2.3 to 2.4 litres so maybe that could make the engine more leaky? Could be a gasket perhaps?

- Revs have started pulsating from idle to 1300 rpm, up and down about 20 times then the revs hold at 2,500 rpm. The ECU must be up to something or could this be an air leak? Griffin Dai I'd be interested to hear if you've had similar issues and would like to know who mapped your 9k; was it Faero also?

Other than that, I took this out for a proper drive last night; it's utterly brutal, the acceleration is visceral and a real adrenaline hit, the induction roar from the custom Jenvey inlet manifold even more so. £40 of Vpower in 2 hours is why I'll be cycling to work for a bit!

Plan is to make it a proper sleeper. I've removed all stickers front, side and rear. Next sleeper mods will be the removal of the tow strap and then painting the calipers black and find some stock looking 17" wheels that'll fit over the big brakes. Any recommendations?

[Mikeeb]

If it's using more than it's leaking then she's burning it. It's putting out twice it's designed BHP, it could be anything from bore wear to turbo seals.

Last time I did any reading on Faero's project thread was about 3 years ago when he was rebuilding the engine and box again. How many miles has it done since then and why did Faero decide to sell? More importantly whey did the previous owner decide to sell after quite a short time?

[anonymous-user]

It's making a lot of power from not much displacement so needs lots of boost. Some of that boost will be blowing past the pistons, pressurising the bottom end. Check the PCV breathers. Other than that, turbo oil seals?

[Nutty9000]

Mikeeb said:

If it's using more than it's leaking then she's burning it. It's putting out twice it's designed BHP, it could be anything from bore wear to turbo seals.

Last time I did any reading on Faero's project thread was about 3 years ago when he was rebuilding the engine and box again. How many miles has it done since then and why did Faero decide to sell? More importantly whey did the previous owner decide to sell after quite a short time?

Great questions.

The rebuild was done 3,000 miles ago which is when the Wossners were put in.

Faero sold it because he had a more extreme trackday project on the go (iirc) and this 9k was suffering severe rust issues.

The previous owner (after Faero) sorted the structural rust issues but blew the Quaife'd gearbox. He wanted more of a daily driver so swapped my 9-5 plus half a bag for this.

Still got the Quaife'd gearbox but need to get the LSD out and fit it in this 4.05 one.

[Nutty9000]

wormus said:

It's making a lot of power from not much displacement so needs lots of boost. Some of that boost will be blowing past the pistons, pressurising the bottom end. Check the PCV breathers. Other than that, turbo oil seals?

Ok thanks will get Wes to have a look at these things.

[madwrx]

HybridAero said:

What do you mean by that?

most tuned turbo cars will run 11-1 fuel air ratios when on boost to enable power and det suppression,
a small amount of the fuel tends to end up in the oil-after a few k miles i can smell it when dipping my oil.
i reckon the oils had a hard time by then anyway as i start seeing the cold and running oil pressure lower then with fresh oil . the oil traps a lot of contaminates and the oil is pretty dirty by then anyway.
i always reckon oil is dirt cheap compared to engines .

my oil catch can never has more than a teaspoon of white sludgy oil in it but half a cup of pretty neat petrol- seems it just gets sucked into the breathers,probably during cold starting and full throttle running-- much rather it be in my can then returned back to the oil in the standard breather system.

[madwrx]

as wormus says the engine is working much harder than any standard or moderately tuned lump -
"some" forged pistons can let a fair amount of oil past them especially if the clearances or honing or bedding in is/was incorrect at build time.
the breathers can often have amounts of oil sloshing around too, not just oily mist -at nearly 500 bhp any faults will show up really quickly.
if any major faults were present it would have died already imo.

my last forged car ran wossners as well(with standard breather system) and drank oil at about 1/2 to 1 litre per thousand miles, just got used to adding a bit each week - did help when i changed the oil to a 10/50 grade though.

[madwrx]

HybridAero said:

madwrx said:

just noticed you listed a quaife lsd in your description -

Yes needs fitting though! Running a stock box atm, thing is even with an LSD 2nd is 'off limits', so not sure if it's even worth bothering.

lol 2nd gear is a no go then- seriously though you need a gear dependent boost controller or decent ecu to reduce boost in the lower gears to get the grunt down.

[Nutty9000]

Turns out it's not that it's burning oil, it has a pretty major leak from what looks like the sump.

It has a baffled sump so hoping it's just the gasket that needs replacing. Otherwise it could be expensive replacing with a brand new baffled one.

Either way I won't be driving it until it's been sorted.

[Nutty9000]

I'm hoping that because it has a baffled sump that it hasn't suffered any recent oil starvation - the baffles should ensure there's always oil around the pickup which is what matters right?