Porsche 911 996.2 3.6 C2
Discussion
Another essential mod is to replace the engine mounts, it makes a HUGE difference - especially if your car still has the original mounts fitted.
There are plenty out there, I went for the 964/993 RS ones from type911shop.co.uk that are not crazy stiff and a good price.
They are super quick and easy to fit.
(Plus the usual, sparks and coils - unless they've been already done recently?)
There are plenty out there, I went for the 964/993 RS ones from type911shop.co.uk that are not crazy stiff and a good price.
They are super quick and easy to fit.
(Plus the usual, sparks and coils - unless they've been already done recently?)
TheJimi said:
Cracking project.
Are you doing anything about the seats? I always feel that those seats are woefully under-bolstered.
Thanks and not for now, although people have mentioned the 997 ones. Ideally it would be getting pole positions but im trying to keep this sensible so it can be a fun family car too hahaAre you doing anything about the seats? I always feel that those seats are woefully under-bolstered.
Photek said:
Another essential mod is to replace the engine mounts, it makes a HUGE difference - especially if your car still has the original mounts fitted.
There are plenty out there, I went for the 964/993 RS ones from type911shop.co.uk that are not crazy stiff and a good price.
They are super quick and easy to fit.
(Plus the usual, sparks and coils - unless they've been already done recently?)
Spark plugs and coils have all been done recently!There are plenty out there, I went for the 964/993 RS ones from type911shop.co.uk that are not crazy stiff and a good price.
They are super quick and easy to fit.
(Plus the usual, sparks and coils - unless they've been already done recently?)
Thanks for the note on the engine mounts, how long have you ran them for? I've been looking into them and had come across those ones, they seem the most cost effective!
Great cars. After a 986 and a 987 I stepped up to a 996.2 in August last year. C2 - manual, non-sunroof, no PSM so raw and light as they come.
Carried out a few small mods including a full set of new Michelins all round, rear wiper delete, wheel spacers and a newer style coolant cap.
Attended a few events last year including Porsche East and the Brands Hatch Festival of Porsche.
Carried out a few small mods including a full set of new Michelins all round, rear wiper delete, wheel spacers and a newer style coolant cap.
Attended a few events last year including Porsche East and the Brands Hatch Festival of Porsche.
Photek said:
Another essential mod is to replace the engine mounts, it makes a HUGE difference - especially if your car still has the original mounts fitted.
There are plenty out there, I went for the 964/993 RS ones from type911shop.co.uk that are not crazy stiff and a good price.
They are super quick and easy to fit.
(Plus the usual, sparks and coils - unless they've been already done recently?)
Decided to go for those engine mounts in the end, people seem to have mixed reviews on them but even if they last a couple of years then they will give me a taste of what they are like!There are plenty out there, I went for the 964/993 RS ones from type911shop.co.uk that are not crazy stiff and a good price.
They are super quick and easy to fit.
(Plus the usual, sparks and coils - unless they've been already done recently?)
Fitting was nice and easy as you say. I had to find a parts diagram to ensure i had things in the right order but i think it took me about an hour all in. One of the original ones kindly leaked stinky oil all over, so definitely wanted replacing! Looks like they were the originals as well with the date stamps.
Old:
20240303_191938 by Scott Osborne, on FlickrNew:
20240303_191926 by Scott Osborne, on FlickrOther side in:
20240303_204601 by Scott Osborne, on FlickrOld ones ready for the bin:
20240303_191403 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr
20240303_210539 by Scott Osborne, on FlickrAnother cheap and easy mod, GT3 brake ducts:
20240303_120524 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr
20240303_114718 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr
20240303_115153 by Scott Osborne, on FlickrEvery little helps and all of that. I've got some Carbotech XP8 pads enroute and will get a full fluid change at the same time and see how it gets on.
I borrowed a wheel off a friend, its in the right diameter and width but the offset is too low by about 10mm. It was nice to try it on for size and also confirm this is the wheel ill likely go for on this car. They used to be 'cheap' but have gone up some 50% at least in the last year or 2, they are really light and relatively strong. For now i'll space out the Carrera wheels that are on the car and put the Oz Alleggeritas on the wish list!
20240303_185402 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr
20240303_185328 by Scott Osborne, on FlickrLastly for this installment, i fitted a new fuel cap. Every now and again i'd get a bit of a whiff of fuel and the previous cap looked a little worse for wear. I checked under the battery tray, where the fuel connections are from the tank and it was as dry as a bone. Not smelled anything since!
I've got some nice bits on order for the suspension upgrade so as soon as all of that is in then ill send it off to my friend for fitting/ setting up. He does 911's day in, day out so i'd rather it was done properly, things arent as simple as my old bmw! Hopefully i'll be able to assist, including setting up the ride heights and geometry, i love that side of things with fresh components!
DanG355 said:
Great cars. After a 986 and a 987 I stepped up to a 996.2 in August last year. C2 - manual, non-sunroof, no PSM so raw and light as they come.
Carried out a few small mods including a full set of new Michelins all round, rear wiper delete, wheel spacers and a newer style coolant cap.
Attended a few events last year including Porsche East and the Brands Hatch Festival of Porsche.
Looks a nice example! Glad you're enjoying it!Carried out a few small mods including a full set of new Michelins all round, rear wiper delete, wheel spacers and a newer style coolant cap.
Attended a few events last year including Porsche East and the Brands Hatch Festival of Porsche.
Lovely car and well purchased! 
With regards adjustable suspension bits and coilovers - steer clear of adjustable coffin arms etc. including the Eibach ones unless it's absolutely critical that you have the options on caster etc. in which case the OE adjustable ones are the best bet. Camber can be achieved on the top mount using something aftermarket like Elephant Racings options.
On coil overs COG do a great and well priced Bilstein setup, Ohlins RAT on softer spring rates work very well. Adjustable toe links on the rear are likely neccesary if you drop a signifcant amount of ride height out of it and beware the camber gain. A quick 996 on UK roads tends to have ride heigh, sacrificing a lower C of G for damper travel.
If you go to a really aggresive pad compound and a fluid to suit be mindful of the front wheel bearing tempeatures (be mindful of them anyway as lots of rumbly braking type problems stem from wheel bearing or track rod play when hot). GT3 brake ducts don't really help that much with cooling as they aren't hugely bigger than standard. There is a motorsport brake duct option but on a road car they tend to interact badly with speed cushions and pot holes as they reduce the floor clearance quite a bit.
There are crazy big brake options available if required:
But with them comes a load of additional rotating mass, you can solve a lot of that with a seperate bell/rotor setup but floating discs are maintenance heavy and lead times long vs 997 Turbo bits. If easy spares isn't a consideration the GiroDisc bolt on kit with spaced standard calipers a decent pad material works very well.
Have a good look around the rads in the nose as debris and general road rash can impact the cooling really significantly, the front of the car also turns into an absolute parachute aero wise if the free flow through the rad packs is impared significantly. M96s don't enjoy high loads at high coolant temps. Make sure the splitter is in good condition if it was designed to have one along with the aero kicks in front of the rad exit ducts, they all have an impact on how well the rads work.
Your car has a proper CANBus setup unlike the earlier C2s / cable throttle cars so a whole manner of data logging/displays and general "modern" car tomfoolery is available if you're into that sort of thing.
Enjoy it, they're an amazing platform to tinker with and hold their own incredibly well for a 25 year old design. I've had mine a long time and I still can't imagine not having it in the garage.
With regards adjustable suspension bits and coilovers - steer clear of adjustable coffin arms etc. including the Eibach ones unless it's absolutely critical that you have the options on caster etc. in which case the OE adjustable ones are the best bet. Camber can be achieved on the top mount using something aftermarket like Elephant Racings options.
On coil overs COG do a great and well priced Bilstein setup, Ohlins RAT on softer spring rates work very well. Adjustable toe links on the rear are likely neccesary if you drop a signifcant amount of ride height out of it and beware the camber gain. A quick 996 on UK roads tends to have ride heigh, sacrificing a lower C of G for damper travel.
If you go to a really aggresive pad compound and a fluid to suit be mindful of the front wheel bearing tempeatures (be mindful of them anyway as lots of rumbly braking type problems stem from wheel bearing or track rod play when hot). GT3 brake ducts don't really help that much with cooling as they aren't hugely bigger than standard. There is a motorsport brake duct option but on a road car they tend to interact badly with speed cushions and pot holes as they reduce the floor clearance quite a bit.
There are crazy big brake options available if required:
But with them comes a load of additional rotating mass, you can solve a lot of that with a seperate bell/rotor setup but floating discs are maintenance heavy and lead times long vs 997 Turbo bits. If easy spares isn't a consideration the GiroDisc bolt on kit with spaced standard calipers a decent pad material works very well.
Have a good look around the rads in the nose as debris and general road rash can impact the cooling really significantly, the front of the car also turns into an absolute parachute aero wise if the free flow through the rad packs is impared significantly. M96s don't enjoy high loads at high coolant temps. Make sure the splitter is in good condition if it was designed to have one along with the aero kicks in front of the rad exit ducts, they all have an impact on how well the rads work.
Your car has a proper CANBus setup unlike the earlier C2s / cable throttle cars so a whole manner of data logging/displays and general "modern" car tomfoolery is available if you're into that sort of thing.
Enjoy it, they're an amazing platform to tinker with and hold their own incredibly well for a 25 year old design. I've had mine a long time and I still can't imagine not having it in the garage.
Ferosferio said:
Bloody hell, Scott (found the thread after our 'chat' on Instagram this afternoon 
) You're not hanging about with this, great work so far mate!
Cheers matey, i feel it'll be a lot of fast progress then tail off when its done so i can just enjoy it (hopefully). It looks like a Scotland roadtrip might be on the cards soon and it'll be running with some heavy hitters, so have its work cut out! ) You're not hanging about with this, great work so far mate!JJJ. said:
Great to see the progress.
GT3 brake ducts? Well, that sounds like the start of a real slippery slope! This is going to turn into a big thread
Keep up the good work.
I've got the parts diagrams for the c2 and gt3 and there does seem to be a lot of parts that are interchangeable, thankfully those small ducts are at the affordable end! Thanks for the kind words! GT3 brake ducts? Well, that sounds like the start of a real slippery slope! This is going to turn into a big thread
Keep up the good work.
Edited by JJJ. on Tuesday 5th March 21:39
poppopbangbang said:
Lovely car and well purchased!
With regards adjustable suspension bits and coilovers - steer clear of adjustable coffin arms etc. including the Eibach ones unless it's absolutely critical that you have the options on caster etc. in which case the OE adjustable ones are the best bet. Camber can be achieved on the top mount using something aftermarket like Elephant Racings options.
On coil overs COG do a great and well priced Bilstein setup, Ohlins RAT on softer spring rates work very well. Adjustable toe links on the rear are likely neccesary if you drop a signifcant amount of ride height out of it and beware the camber gain. A quick 996 on UK roads tends to have ride heigh, sacrificing a lower C of G for damper travel.
If you go to a really aggresive pad compound and a fluid to suit be mindful of the front wheel bearing tempeatures (be mindful of them anyway as lots of rumbly braking type problems stem from wheel bearing or track rod play when hot). GT3 brake ducts don't really help that much with cooling as they aren't hugely bigger than standard. There is a motorsport brake duct option but on a road car they tend to interact badly with speed cushions and pot holes as they reduce the floor clearance quite a bit.
There are crazy big brake options available if required:
But with them comes a load of additional rotating mass, you can solve a lot of that with a seperate bell/rotor setup but floating discs are maintenance heavy and lead times long vs 997 Turbo bits. If easy spares isn't a consideration the GiroDisc bolt on kit with spaced standard calipers a decent pad material works very well.
Have a good look around the rads in the nose as debris and general road rash can impact the cooling really significantly, the front of the car also turns into an absolute parachute aero wise if the free flow through the rad packs is impared significantly. M96s don't enjoy high loads at high coolant temps. Make sure the splitter is in good condition if it was designed to have one along with the aero kicks in front of the rad exit ducts, they all have an impact on how well the rads work.
Your car has a proper CANBus setup unlike the earlier C2s / cable throttle cars so a whole manner of data logging/displays and general "modern" car tomfoolery is available if you're into that sort of thing.
Enjoy it, they're an amazing platform to tinker with and hold their own incredibly well for a 25 year old design. I've had mine a long time and I still can't imagine not having it in the garage.
Thank You! I've been an avid reader of your thread and they've always stuck in my head more securely since!With regards adjustable suspension bits and coilovers - steer clear of adjustable coffin arms etc. including the Eibach ones unless it's absolutely critical that you have the options on caster etc. in which case the OE adjustable ones are the best bet. Camber can be achieved on the top mount using something aftermarket like Elephant Racings options.
On coil overs COG do a great and well priced Bilstein setup, Ohlins RAT on softer spring rates work very well. Adjustable toe links on the rear are likely neccesary if you drop a signifcant amount of ride height out of it and beware the camber gain. A quick 996 on UK roads tends to have ride heigh, sacrificing a lower C of G for damper travel.
If you go to a really aggresive pad compound and a fluid to suit be mindful of the front wheel bearing tempeatures (be mindful of them anyway as lots of rumbly braking type problems stem from wheel bearing or track rod play when hot). GT3 brake ducts don't really help that much with cooling as they aren't hugely bigger than standard. There is a motorsport brake duct option but on a road car they tend to interact badly with speed cushions and pot holes as they reduce the floor clearance quite a bit.
There are crazy big brake options available if required:
But with them comes a load of additional rotating mass, you can solve a lot of that with a seperate bell/rotor setup but floating discs are maintenance heavy and lead times long vs 997 Turbo bits. If easy spares isn't a consideration the GiroDisc bolt on kit with spaced standard calipers a decent pad material works very well.
Have a good look around the rads in the nose as debris and general road rash can impact the cooling really significantly, the front of the car also turns into an absolute parachute aero wise if the free flow through the rad packs is impared significantly. M96s don't enjoy high loads at high coolant temps. Make sure the splitter is in good condition if it was designed to have one along with the aero kicks in front of the rad exit ducts, they all have an impact on how well the rads work.
Your car has a proper CANBus setup unlike the earlier C2s / cable throttle cars so a whole manner of data logging/displays and general "modern" car tomfoolery is available if you're into that sort of thing.
Enjoy it, they're an amazing platform to tinker with and hold their own incredibly well for a 25 year old design. I've had mine a long time and I still can't imagine not having it in the garage.
Thanks for the advice on the suspension, i've ended up going with Nitrons kit. They do a roadsport kit that uses OE top mounts but also the R1 kit that comes with their own topmounts and slightly stiffer springs. I've gone with the R1 kit (for the adjustable front topmounts, as you suggest) but the roadsport spring rates. With this the standard coffin arms will stay and we can see where we end up, they have boat loads of caster as standard i believe?
I've also got some tie arms for the rear and will only be lowering some 20mm or so, the North Pennines can be a cruel mistress! It sounds like im on the right track at least, which is a relief!
I've gone with Carbotech XP8 pads, so more towards a fast road/ sprint pad, hopefully not too aggressive but aggressive enough that i wont run out of brakes again down my favorite pass
fingers crossed, love the look of the larger brakes on yours though!The front rad packs have all been cleaned out, the previous owner was more of a cleaner than a driver and luckily for me this resulted in buying a car thats had the time spent on it on that front.
I've really taken to it already and only done 4-500 miles, i hope i'll get to have it for a long time to come as well. The Alleggeritas on yours confirm its the wheel of choice also, it looks awesome. Thanks again for the pointers, it puts the mind at rest, its a funny thing getting a 'new' car and not knowing the in's and out's!
poppopbangbang said:
Lovely car and well purchased!
With regards adjustable suspension bits and coilovers - steer clear of adjustable coffin arms etc. including the Eibach ones unless it's absolutely critical that you have the options on caster etc. in which case the OE adjustable ones are the best bet. Camber can be achieved on the top mount using something aftermarket like Elephant Racings options.
On coil overs COG do a great and well priced Bilstein setup, Ohlins RAT on softer spring rates work very well. Adjustable toe links on the rear are likely neccesary if you drop a signifcant amount of ride height out of it and beware the camber gain. A quick 996 on UK roads tends to have ride heigh, sacrificing a lower C of G for damper travel.
If you go to a really aggresive pad compound and a fluid to suit be mindful of the front wheel bearing tempeatures (be mindful of them anyway as lots of rumbly braking type problems stem from wheel bearing or track rod play when hot). GT3 brake ducts don't really help that much with cooling as they aren't hugely bigger than standard. There is a motorsport brake duct option but on a road car they tend to interact badly with speed cushions and pot holes as they reduce the floor clearance quite a bit.
There are crazy big brake options available if required:
But with them comes a load of additional rotating mass, you can solve a lot of that with a seperate bell/rotor setup but floating discs are maintenance heavy and lead times long vs 997 Turbo bits. If easy spares isn't a consideration the GiroDisc bolt on kit with spaced standard calipers a decent pad material works very well.
Have a good look around the rads in the nose as debris and general road rash can impact the cooling really significantly, the front of the car also turns into an absolute parachute aero wise if the free flow through the rad packs is impared significantly. M96s don't enjoy high loads at high coolant temps. Make sure the splitter is in good condition if it was designed to have one along with the aero kicks in front of the rad exit ducts, they all have an impact on how well the rads work.
Your car has a proper CANBus setup unlike the earlier C2s / cable throttle cars so a whole manner of data logging/displays and general "modern" car tomfoolery is available if you're into that sort of thing.
Enjoy it, they're an amazing platform to tinker with and hold their own incredibly well for a 25 year old design. I've had mine a long time and I still can't imagine not having it in the garage.
Any reason you would steer clear of the Eibach coffin arms? I have spoken to COG and that's what they are recommending I go for given my needs - loads of steering feel but with a compliant ride. I am running Koni Special Actives on standard springs on my 996.2.With regards adjustable suspension bits and coilovers - steer clear of adjustable coffin arms etc. including the Eibach ones unless it's absolutely critical that you have the options on caster etc. in which case the OE adjustable ones are the best bet. Camber can be achieved on the top mount using something aftermarket like Elephant Racings options.
On coil overs COG do a great and well priced Bilstein setup, Ohlins RAT on softer spring rates work very well. Adjustable toe links on the rear are likely neccesary if you drop a signifcant amount of ride height out of it and beware the camber gain. A quick 996 on UK roads tends to have ride heigh, sacrificing a lower C of G for damper travel.
If you go to a really aggresive pad compound and a fluid to suit be mindful of the front wheel bearing tempeatures (be mindful of them anyway as lots of rumbly braking type problems stem from wheel bearing or track rod play when hot). GT3 brake ducts don't really help that much with cooling as they aren't hugely bigger than standard. There is a motorsport brake duct option but on a road car they tend to interact badly with speed cushions and pot holes as they reduce the floor clearance quite a bit.
There are crazy big brake options available if required:
But with them comes a load of additional rotating mass, you can solve a lot of that with a seperate bell/rotor setup but floating discs are maintenance heavy and lead times long vs 997 Turbo bits. If easy spares isn't a consideration the GiroDisc bolt on kit with spaced standard calipers a decent pad material works very well.
Have a good look around the rads in the nose as debris and general road rash can impact the cooling really significantly, the front of the car also turns into an absolute parachute aero wise if the free flow through the rad packs is impared significantly. M96s don't enjoy high loads at high coolant temps. Make sure the splitter is in good condition if it was designed to have one along with the aero kicks in front of the rad exit ducts, they all have an impact on how well the rads work.
Your car has a proper CANBus setup unlike the earlier C2s / cable throttle cars so a whole manner of data logging/displays and general "modern" car tomfoolery is available if you're into that sort of thing.
Enjoy it, they're an amazing platform to tinker with and hold their own incredibly well for a 25 year old design. I've had mine a long time and I still can't imagine not having it in the garage.
scottos said:
Thank You! I've been an avid reader of your thread and they've always stuck in my head more securely since!
Thanks for the advice on the suspension, i've ended up going with Nitrons kit. They do a roadsport kit that uses OE top mounts but also the R1 kit that comes with their own topmounts and slightly stiffer springs. I've gone with the R1 kit (for the adjustable front topmounts, as you suggest) but the roadsport spring rates. With this the standard coffin arms will stay and we can see where we end up, they have boat loads of caster as standard i believe?
I've also got some tie arms for the rear and will only be lowering some 20mm or so, the North Pennines can be a cruel mistress! It sounds like im on the right track at least, which is a relief!
I've gone with Carbotech XP8 pads, so more towards a fast road/ sprint pad, hopefully not too aggressive but aggressive enough that i wont run out of brakes again down my favorite pass fingers crossed, love the look of the larger brakes on yours though!
The front rad packs have all been cleaned out, the previous owner was more of a cleaner than a driver and luckily for me this resulted in buying a car thats had the time spent on it on that front.
I've really taken to it already and only done 4-500 miles, i hope i'll get to have it for a long time to come as well. The Alleggeritas on yours confirm its the wheel of choice also, it looks awesome. Thanks again for the pointers, it puts the mind at rest, its a funny thing getting a 'new' car and not knowing the in's and out's!
I've never run Nitrons on any of my stuff but many, many people only have good things to say about them and I'd be really keen to hear how you get on with them. I did a lot of playing about with spring rates over the years and whilst there is definitely a too soft limit it's very easy to end up over sprung. Thanks for the advice on the suspension, i've ended up going with Nitrons kit. They do a roadsport kit that uses OE top mounts but also the R1 kit that comes with their own topmounts and slightly stiffer springs. I've gone with the R1 kit (for the adjustable front topmounts, as you suggest) but the roadsport spring rates. With this the standard coffin arms will stay and we can see where we end up, they have boat loads of caster as standard i believe?
I've also got some tie arms for the rear and will only be lowering some 20mm or so, the North Pennines can be a cruel mistress! It sounds like im on the right track at least, which is a relief!
I've gone with Carbotech XP8 pads, so more towards a fast road/ sprint pad, hopefully not too aggressive but aggressive enough that i wont run out of brakes again down my favorite pass
fingers crossed, love the look of the larger brakes on yours though!The front rad packs have all been cleaned out, the previous owner was more of a cleaner than a driver and luckily for me this resulted in buying a car thats had the time spent on it on that front.
I've really taken to it already and only done 4-500 miles, i hope i'll get to have it for a long time to come as well. The Alleggeritas on yours confirm its the wheel of choice also, it looks awesome. Thanks again for the pointers, it puts the mind at rest, its a funny thing getting a 'new' car and not knowing the in's and out's!
The Alleggeritas on mine are GT3 sizes which on a PS4S are as much traction as you'll ever need on the road. They are a lovely wheel and I have a lot of time for how Oz design, manufacture and ensure quality and durability.
It sounds like you've got a cracking car and I'm looking forward to reading your updates and progress with it
911Spanker said:
Any reason you would steer clear of the Eibach coffin arms? I have spoken to COG and that's what they are recommending I go for given my needs - loads of steering feel but with a compliant ride. I am running Koni Special Actives on standard springs on my 996.2.
Yours is a bit of an edge case as it's on standard springs which gives you a more limited option of adjustable top mounts and likely less adjustment in the ones which will work due to the diameter of the spring vs an aftermarket coilover type setup.I'm not a fan of the Eibach arms as they are rubber bushed (and the single shear clamp up arrangement for adjustment lockout offends my prejudices around fast cars using shims for adjustment
), with a compliant rubber bush you will always have deflection under load but generally / for most when you get to the point of needing adjustment in the arm you're seeking significant performance over the OE setup and are likely running a spring and damper package with very different rates, grippier tyres, probably quite significant changes in rotational mass at the corner etc. etc. etc. Basically you're putting a lot more load through those compliant bushes when you're seeking to use the extra performance and the deflection etc. under that load is unknown so how do you make sure the geometry you set is the geometry you have under load....The easy way is to just put everything on a none compliant joint or a compliance restricted joint (hence why you see race cars on spherical bearings and solid bushes) so if you've done sticky tyres, trick dampers and are seeking the kind of geometry to maximise that then you might as well follow the race car ethos and run something like this:
This ER arm has spherical bearings on the inner and outer (with shim adjustment of the inner for camber) and a solid and adjustable central bushing for caster adjustment (or wheel base adjustment on the rear) which means none of it moves under load but it gives you all the adjustment required to put the exact geo required on the car static which remains the same geometry when loaded.
Of course all of this solid / zero compliance stuff means it'll be horrific as a road car where you actually want the compliance for NVH. For your requirement the SPC / Eibach arms are actually a really good choice as you'll never put the loads into them where single shear lockout makes you wince a bit and the rubber bushes will keep the NVH acceptable, plus you only want the camber adjustment element so the lack of any caster adjustment etc. doesn't matter. You're basically the person SPC designed them for
Edited to add: Scottos sorry for hijacking your thread!
poppopbangbang said:
911Spanker said:
Any reason you would steer clear of the Eibach coffin arms? I have spoken to COG and that's what they are recommending I go for given my needs - loads of steering feel but with a compliant ride. I am running Koni Special Actives on standard springs on my 996.2.
Yours is a bit of an edge case as it's on standard springs which gives you a more limited option of adjustable top mounts and likely less adjustment in the ones which will work due to the diameter of the spring vs an aftermarket coilover type setup.I'm not a fan of the Eibach arms as they are rubber bushed (and the single shear clamp up arrangement for adjustment lockout offends my prejudices around fast cars using shims for adjustment
), with a compliant rubber bush you will always have deflection under load but generally / for most when you get to the point of needing adjustment in the arm you're seeking significant performance over the OE setup and are likely running a spring and damper package with very different rates, grippier tyres, probably quite significant changes in rotational mass at the corner etc. etc. etc. Basically you're putting a lot more load through those compliant bushes when you're seeking to use the extra performance and the deflection etc. under that load is unknown so how do you make sure the geometry you set is the geometry you have under load....The easy way is to just put everything on a none compliant joint or a compliance restricted joint (hence why you see race cars on spherical bearings and solid bushes) so if you've done sticky tyres, trick dampers and are seeking the kind of geometry to maximise that then you might as well follow the race car ethos and run something like this:
This ER arm has spherical bearings on the inner and outer (with shim adjustment of the inner for camber) and a solid and adjustable central bushing for caster adjustment (or wheel base adjustment on the rear) which means none of it moves under load but it gives you all the adjustment required to put the exact geo required on the car static which remains the same geometry when loaded.
Of course all of this solid / zero compliance stuff means it'll be horrific as a road car where you actually want the compliance for NVH. For your requirement the SPC / Eibach arms are actually a really good choice as you'll never put the loads into them where single shear lockout makes you wince a bit and the rubber bushes will keep the NVH acceptable, plus you only want the camber adjustment element so the lack of any caster adjustment etc. doesn't matter. You're basically the person SPC designed them for
Edited to add: Scottos sorry for hijacking your thread!
Thanks very much for this detailed explanation, makes sense!
I am after a "Lotus" 996 - great ride and handling with fantastic steering feel which my car doesn't quite have at the moment.
Anything else worth looking into do you think? COG this the arms will do the trick but I want it to steer like a GT3 RS...
Edited by 911Spanker on Friday 8th March 07:31
911Spanker said:
Yes, very sorry to thread hijack!
Thanks very much for this detailed explanation, makes sense!
I am after a "Lotus" 996 - great ride and handling with fantastic steering feel which my car doesn't quite have at the moment.
Anything else worth looking into do you think? COG this the arms will do the trick but I want it to steer like a GT3 RS...
I have 2 x 996, my old one and my new one. My old one had much better steering feel. The older car has rock hard KW Clubsport dampers with adjustable [very rigid] top mounts and lots of poly bushes - I presume everywhere but not certain. So I'd say if you want better steering feel you have to tighten up as much slop as poss. A mod for the 996 is to switch to standard 997 coffin arms on the front because these have a much bigger and stiffer bush than the 996 arms which are quite squidgy. I'd say thats the first step before going to poly and then all out with rose joints. But the stiffer you go the less road manners you have. Thanks very much for this detailed explanation, makes sense!
I am after a "Lotus" 996 - great ride and handling with fantastic steering feel which my car doesn't quite have at the moment.
Anything else worth looking into do you think? COG this the arms will do the trick but I want it to steer like a GT3 RS...
Tweaking Castor can also change feel because it makes the steering want to centre more or less but I am no expert so presume COG know more on this than me.
The last thing I will mention is wheel weight and width ... and offset. When I switched from 18 to 17 on my rock hard 996 the steering feel went up massively. So much more chatter from the steering wheel. Lighter wheels will dance around more requiring less force to move them and this will transmit to the steering wheel. Also I believe thicker tyres dull steering so conversely a thinner tyre should do the opposite. It's an easy change too - just bolt smaller wheels on and see what you think.
EDIT
Some of this could have been down to wheel offset also but I am trying to limit my waffle here without going off on too many tangents - but yes I found changing offset with spacers affected steering feel also. Higher offset = heavier steering = different feel. I am not saying better or worse here. If you prefer steering which wants to centre and is heavier to go off centre then higher wheel offset will do this for you. But you will lose some of the chatter you get from a lighter or less heavy setup - or not so high wheel offset.
I've gone back and forth on this a lot because I felt short changed switching from my older 996 to my newer one and losing some steering feel.
Saying all that I thought the ethos behind Lotus was to not make their cars too stiff. Are COG recommending these arms because they are more rigid to add feel or is this for their adjustability to dial in more feel to the GEO?
Well done, nice car Scott !! X51 a very rare (and expensive) option, ditto full GT3 aero kit !!
Enjoy it, they’re wonderful little cars. Especially once they’ve been tweaked.
Here’s my spec so far (we appear to be on parallel trajectories… )
Momo Cup steering wheel
Centre console delete
Stereo delete
Ashtray delete
Custom trimmed Cobra Nogaros with ultra low side mounts
Ohlins R&T’s with my own custom spring rates.
New caster arms, top mounts, ARB droplinks, rack inner and outer tie rods. All stock to keep NVH to OE levels.
Eibach adjustable front coffin arms chosen because they retain rubber bushings !! …
My own custom front and rear floating discs 340mm fronts, 320mm rears.
Rear seat delete
Rear seat belt delete
Rear wiper delete
New engine mounts (I fitted new OE items, they were a game changer)
Short shift (and new shift cables ready to be fitted)
Michelin PS 4S
GT3 front bumper.
And do think hard before you fit the OZ’s, those Carrera wheels are exceptionally light, and apart from the hollow spoke Turbo wheels, are the lightest 18” OE wheel Porsche fitted to a 996.
They’re easy to clean too
Edit to add. Unless you’re planning on tracking a 996 frequently and using sticky tyres, avoid using Rose joints anywhere in the car’s suspension, they have no place on a road car, and certainly not one used on our horrendously surfaced roads.
Enjoy it, they’re wonderful little cars. Especially once they’ve been tweaked.
Here’s my spec so far (we appear to be on parallel trajectories… )
Momo Cup steering wheel
Centre console delete
Stereo delete
Ashtray delete
Custom trimmed Cobra Nogaros with ultra low side mounts
Ohlins R&T’s with my own custom spring rates.
New caster arms, top mounts, ARB droplinks, rack inner and outer tie rods. All stock to keep NVH to OE levels.
Eibach adjustable front coffin arms chosen because they retain rubber bushings !! …
My own custom front and rear floating discs 340mm fronts, 320mm rears.
Rear seat delete
Rear seat belt delete
Rear wiper delete
New engine mounts (I fitted new OE items, they were a game changer)
Short shift (and new shift cables ready to be fitted)
Michelin PS 4S
GT3 front bumper.
And do think hard before you fit the OZ’s, those Carrera wheels are exceptionally light, and apart from the hollow spoke Turbo wheels, are the lightest 18” OE wheel Porsche fitted to a 996.
They’re easy to clean too
Edit to add. Unless you’re planning on tracking a 996 frequently and using sticky tyres, avoid using Rose joints anywhere in the car’s suspension, they have no place on a road car, and certainly not one used on our horrendously surfaced roads.
Edited by Slippydiff on Friday 8th March 19:35
911Spanker said:
Yes, very sorry to thread hijack!
Thanks very much for this detailed explanation, makes sense!
I am after a "Lotus" 996 - great ride and handling with fantastic steering feel which my car doesn't quite have at the moment.
Anything else worth looking into do you think? COG this the arms will do the trick but I want it to steer like a GT3 RS...
Try driving a 996 GT3 RS down a bumpy, heavily cambered, poorly maintained British road, and you might think differently…Thanks very much for this detailed explanation, makes sense!
I am after a "Lotus" 996 - great ride and handling with fantastic steering feel which my car doesn't quite have at the moment.
Anything else worth looking into do you think? COG this the arms will do the trick but I want it to steer like a GT3 RS...
The Eibach adjustable coffin arms retain rubber bushings both on the inner end and in the caster arm attachment point, but better still, they have a slightly harder shore hardness than the OE items. It is a win/win upgrade.
ATM said:
Saying all that I thought the ethos behind Lotus was to not make their cars too stiff. Are COG recommending these arms because they are more rigid to add feel or is this for their adjustability to dial in more feel to the GEO?
Slippydiff said:
911Spanker said:
Yes, very sorry to thread hijack!
Thanks very much for this detailed explanation, makes sense!
I am after a "Lotus" 996 - great ride and handling with fantastic steering feel which my car doesn't quite have at the moment.
Anything else worth looking into do you think? COG this the arms will do the trick but I want it to steer like a GT3 RS...
Try driving a 996 GT3 RS down a bumpy, heavily cambered, poorly maintained British road, and you might think differently…Thanks very much for this detailed explanation, makes sense!
I am after a "Lotus" 996 - great ride and handling with fantastic steering feel which my car doesn't quite have at the moment.
Anything else worth looking into do you think? COG this the arms will do the trick but I want it to steer like a GT3 RS...
The Eibach adjustable coffin arms retain rubber bushings both on the inner end and in the caster arm attachment point, but better still, they have a slightly harder shore hardness than the OE items. It is a win/win upgrade.
Here's my car with its Dakar ride height...
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/31mFH9UB.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/eGeCfTb3" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/eGeCfTb3.jpg)
The Ohlins are excellent. Though the springs rates Ohlins spec (both the original and reduced rate items) are waaaay too stiff for our UK roads.
With sensible spring rates, the car is transformed and becomes an absolute weapon to drive on our increasingly poorly surfaced roads. Even with 320hp it would leave a stock 996.1 or 2 GT3 struggling to keep up such is it’s compliance and composure.
The only thing I’d say is, go to town on all the suspension components and renew them, coffin arms, caster arms, ARB droplinks, top mounts, top mount bearings, steering rack inners and outers, the lot.
No need to upgrade anything else apart from front coffin arms, and if you want to adjust caster and retain the rubber bushes in the coffin arms, buy adjustable caster arms too.
And be guided by Chris at CoG on ride heights, as running them too low doesn’t do them any favours.
And to that end I’ve just raised the front end on mine 10mm.
This it prior to the 10mm increase:
And Dakar ride height prior to fitting the Ohlins (it’s probably 15-18mm lower than this now)
With sensible spring rates, the car is transformed and becomes an absolute weapon to drive on our increasingly poorly surfaced roads. Even with 320hp it would leave a stock 996.1 or 2 GT3 struggling to keep up such is it’s compliance and composure.
The only thing I’d say is, go to town on all the suspension components and renew them, coffin arms, caster arms, ARB droplinks, top mounts, top mount bearings, steering rack inners and outers, the lot.
No need to upgrade anything else apart from front coffin arms, and if you want to adjust caster and retain the rubber bushes in the coffin arms, buy adjustable caster arms too.
And be guided by Chris at CoG on ride heights, as running them too low doesn’t do them any favours.
And to that end I’ve just raised the front end on mine 10mm.
This it prior to the 10mm increase:
And Dakar ride height prior to fitting the Ohlins (it’s probably 15-18mm lower than this now)
Slippydiff said:
The Ohlins are excellent. Though the springs rates Ohlins spec (both the original and reduced rate items) are waaaay too stiff for our UK roads.
With sensible spring rates, the car is transformed and becomes an absolute weapon to drive on our increasingly poorly surfaced roads. Even with 320hp it would leave a stock 996.1 or 2 GT3 struggling to keep up such is it’s compliance and composure.
The only thing I’d say is, go to town on all the suspension components and renew them, coffin arms, caster arms, ARB droplinks, top mounts, top mount bearings, steering rack inners and outers, the lot.
No need to upgrade anything else apart from front coffin arms, and if you want to adjust caster and retain the rubber bushes in the coffin arms, buy adjustable caster arms too.
And be guided by Chris at CoG on ride heights, as running them too low doesn’t do them any favours.
And to that end I’ve just raised the front end on mine 10mm.
This it prior to the 10mm increase:
And Dakar ride height prior to fitting the Ohlins (it’s probably 15-18mm lower than this now)
Great information again, much appreciated. My car is very compliant and too would easily lose a GT3 on road With sensible spring rates, the car is transformed and becomes an absolute weapon to drive on our increasingly poorly surfaced roads. Even with 320hp it would leave a stock 996.1 or 2 GT3 struggling to keep up such is it’s compliance and composure.
The only thing I’d say is, go to town on all the suspension components and renew them, coffin arms, caster arms, ARB droplinks, top mounts, top mount bearings, steering rack inners and outers, the lot.
No need to upgrade anything else apart from front coffin arms, and if you want to adjust caster and retain the rubber bushes in the coffin arms, buy adjustable caster arms too.
And be guided by Chris at CoG on ride heights, as running them too low doesn’t do them any favours.
And to that end I’ve just raised the front end on mine 10mm.
This it prior to the 10mm increase:
And Dakar ride height prior to fitting the Ohlins (it’s probably 15-18mm lower than this now)
But it does suffer from some vagueness at higher speeds which could probably be improved by being a bit lower.
As ever with these things it becomes a bit of an expensive leap into the unknown, hence using COG for my work thus far.
However given my needs are to keep its current ride comfort with GT3esque feel is proving a bit tricky to deliver...
Great purchase Scottos! Followed the 2002 thread and will be following this with interest also.
Thought I'll share this recent blog about suspensions from COG as i think some of the posters here might find it useful.......
https://centergravity.co.uk/time-for-some-suspensi...
Thought I'll share this recent blog about suspensions from COG as i think some of the posters here might find it useful.......
https://centergravity.co.uk/time-for-some-suspensi...
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