Peugeot 306 - 1360cc of raw power.
Discussion
Long time from the last update, but I've been getting some milage on her with the new geometery setup, which has made two things apparent:
1 - I still have a touch of bumpsteer on acceleration, perfect under braking however, so the height of the outer track rods wants adjusting a little.
2 - the front roll centre is a little low - there's a touch of feathering on the outside of the tyres even with the camber I'm running and it's pretty much impossible to induce understeer unless heading into a corner 20mph too fast - sounds like a good thing but it means the car isn't generating quite as much grip as it could, so I could do with making up some new balljoints - but that'll affect (1), so I may as well sort 'em both at the same time.
3 - The driveshafts aren't up to taking the extra steering lock and angle I now have from mounting the engine further back and running more castor - they run out of travel before full lock.
I do however now have the wilwood valves fitted with new cupronickel lines, and have been making up an adaptor to bring the engine intake length up from 11 inches to 16 inches - which should bring about 5-6% or so more power and torque in the midrange, it'll keep me happy as a cheap solution until I get the throttle bodies sorted anyway.
So, shortly there'll be lots of greasy pictures of driveshaft innards and shiny bits again
Hopefully I can drop on a half decent set of secondhand shafts and scavenge bits so I don't have her off the road again, otherwise she'll not see the light of day for another 2 years while I make even more shiny bits....
1 - I still have a touch of bumpsteer on acceleration, perfect under braking however, so the height of the outer track rods wants adjusting a little.
2 - the front roll centre is a little low - there's a touch of feathering on the outside of the tyres even with the camber I'm running and it's pretty much impossible to induce understeer unless heading into a corner 20mph too fast - sounds like a good thing but it means the car isn't generating quite as much grip as it could, so I could do with making up some new balljoints - but that'll affect (1), so I may as well sort 'em both at the same time.
3 - The driveshafts aren't up to taking the extra steering lock and angle I now have from mounting the engine further back and running more castor - they run out of travel before full lock.
I do however now have the wilwood valves fitted with new cupronickel lines, and have been making up an adaptor to bring the engine intake length up from 11 inches to 16 inches - which should bring about 5-6% or so more power and torque in the midrange, it'll keep me happy as a cheap solution until I get the throttle bodies sorted anyway.
So, shortly there'll be lots of greasy pictures of driveshaft innards and shiny bits again
Hopefully I can drop on a half decent set of secondhand shafts and scavenge bits so I don't have her off the road again, otherwise she'll not see the light of day for another 2 years while I make even more shiny bits....
Edited by PhillipM on Wednesday 28th July 22:17
Right, I've now lifted the rack with a couple of shims just to get it how I wanted, I've tweaked the roll centre up slightly by lifting the inner wishbone pivots slightly, but I want to do some work on the balljoint for any more tweaks as otherwise I'm loosing out elsewhere.
And there's a new driveshaft on the way, so I need to get some bar stock and set to making the longer shafts to swap into 'em before I fit them, I hate doing splines!
I've also recieved a set of the new Bluestuff NDX to test out from Andy, so I fitted mine tonight, checked the calipers over and gave the sliders a fresh slither of molybdenum powder, whilst working in the dark - probably not the best way to mess with brakes...:lol:
Anyway, I've only run around for 10 minutes to bed them in a little, but first impressions:
-Noisier than the 1144's on the wavy discs - they don't squeak at all, but you get a notable 'whirr' when slowing like with grooved discs, that the Mintex only displayed above 60mph - might go away once they've done a few more bedding sessions, we'll see.
-They bite well enough straight from the box that they feel like OE pads - only when they're bedded in to the disc and you build the heat to get the pad working properly do they ever drop below that level - and that's only because of some green fade as they transfer material across.
-As soon as letting them cool slightly after the fade from bedding in goes, the initial pedal bite and outright power, I would say is about 10% better than the 1144's, not near the level of XP8's in either bite or power yet, but they were getting better and better and the pedal was firming up on every stop, so I'll update again in a few hundred miles after they've had chance to bed in some more with some fade, cold/hot friction levels, and wear reports hopefully.
Mine came with rubber anti-squeal pads that Andy recommended I didn't take off, but being me I'm afraid I've ignored him put them in the bin in the hope of better pedal feel - I haven't had any sort of squeal at all, which is nice for something described as a race/endurance pad - but that's not to say you won't get it on standard discs, the wavy brakes do suppress 95% of brake squeal anyway.
And there's a new driveshaft on the way, so I need to get some bar stock and set to making the longer shafts to swap into 'em before I fit them, I hate doing splines!
I've also recieved a set of the new Bluestuff NDX to test out from Andy, so I fitted mine tonight, checked the calipers over and gave the sliders a fresh slither of molybdenum powder, whilst working in the dark - probably not the best way to mess with brakes...:lol:
Anyway, I've only run around for 10 minutes to bed them in a little, but first impressions:
-Noisier than the 1144's on the wavy discs - they don't squeak at all, but you get a notable 'whirr' when slowing like with grooved discs, that the Mintex only displayed above 60mph - might go away once they've done a few more bedding sessions, we'll see.
-They bite well enough straight from the box that they feel like OE pads - only when they're bedded in to the disc and you build the heat to get the pad working properly do they ever drop below that level - and that's only because of some green fade as they transfer material across.
-As soon as letting them cool slightly after the fade from bedding in goes, the initial pedal bite and outright power, I would say is about 10% better than the 1144's, not near the level of XP8's in either bite or power yet, but they were getting better and better and the pedal was firming up on every stop, so I'll update again in a few hundred miles after they've had chance to bed in some more with some fade, cold/hot friction levels, and wear reports hopefully.
Mine came with rubber anti-squeal pads that Andy recommended I didn't take off, but being me I'm afraid I've ignored him put them in the bin in the hope of better pedal feel - I haven't had any sort of squeal at all, which is nice for something described as a race/endurance pad - but that's not to say you won't get it on standard discs, the wavy brakes do suppress 95% of brake squeal anyway.
Edited by PhillipM on Monday 13th September 21:18
PhillipM said:
I know, but they were cheap and I like 'em.
I keep thinking about fitting some of the Citreon C5 steel-look alloys, but they're not cheap either these days.
↲↲I picked my set of c5 wheels up for £36 from ebay, 4.5kg each and they are the later tapered nut version. Excellent work by the way! I keep thinking about fitting some of the Citreon C5 steel-look alloys, but they're not cheap either these days.
Edited by PhillipM on Tuesday 14th September 17:03
Right, shiny new driveshafts on - turns out that the new shafts actually had two circlip grooves for the outer joint - they must make the same shaft for the Partner or something similar that takes longer joints.
As it is, it was pretty much a case of spotting them, checking the other shaft, and then me jumping up and shouting "Jackpot!", for 5 minutes
So, no need to make longer shafts and then spend 2 days cutting splines manually, and instead, move the outer joint by 8mm (really I could have done with 12mm, but hell, there's enough plunge spare on the inner joints, I'll settle for 8mm!) clip circlip in the other groove and on they go
Sorted
I'm still 10mm short of the full track width/camber settings available from the wishbones but I'll settle for them as they are, bugger it!
Did find some rather worrying amounts of metal shards from the gearbox when I dropped the oil though, so it's not all gone well today, unfortunately, keep and eye on it, it might one of the old selectors/gears I re-used isn't appreciating being disturbed and is bedding back in.
As it is, it was pretty much a case of spotting them, checking the other shaft, and then me jumping up and shouting "Jackpot!", for 5 minutes
So, no need to make longer shafts and then spend 2 days cutting splines manually, and instead, move the outer joint by 8mm (really I could have done with 12mm, but hell, there's enough plunge spare on the inner joints, I'll settle for 8mm!) clip circlip in the other groove and on they go
Sorted
I'm still 10mm short of the full track width/camber settings available from the wishbones but I'll settle for them as they are, bugger it!
Did find some rather worrying amounts of metal shards from the gearbox when I dropped the oil though, so it's not all gone well today, unfortunately, keep and eye on it, it might one of the old selectors/gears I re-used isn't appreciating being disturbed and is bedding back in.
Edited by PhillipM on Wednesday 22 September 19:40
Update on the Bluestuff NDX pads Andy kindly sent me to try out - well, 2 updates rolled into one as I forgot to post one - after 200 miles of bedding (no serious abuse) the pedal feel was excellent - I'd say better than either 1144's or 2500's, again, bite from cold was just as hard, if not a touch harder, than 1144's, but they did get notably better after a couple of stops.
Still a little rumbly when cold but it was going away as they bedded in further, I haven't pushed them hard yet for fade resistance but give me a week and we'll see.
But so far they seem like a decent alternative to 1144/1155/DS2500's and at the minute they're just getting better as the miles pile on.
I've done 500 miles in total on them now, so far, so good, still no noise, still working just as well as 1144's from cold, and I reckon they're probably about 15% more outright braking power than 1144's as soon as they get a touch of heat from the first stop. Certainly better than stock pads even cold anyway.
Initial bite is good, pedal feel is still better than the 1144's/DS2500's were, dust seems to be on a par with 1144 but it's a little 'sticky' - like Ferrodo's - a bit harder to clean off but not in elbow grease + acid wheel cleaner league.
As far as I can tell they don't seem to be chewing into the disc, but I haven't done enough miles for a wear review yet.
Quite impressive tbh. And they don't have the previous EBC problem of having a shock when it's been raining, although that might be down to the discs.
I've taken the discs up to 550*c according to the AP paint, never had a hint of fade so I think they'll go much further - 1144's would have been fading badly quite a way before that.
I'd be quite tempted by these as the go-to pad for pretty much everything if it turns out they wear nicely too, they seem an ideal all around pad for road/fast road/short track sessions, anything more serious I think you'd want more outright power perhaps, but I'll keep pushing the temperatures up and see just how much heat they will take.
Still a little rumbly when cold but it was going away as they bedded in further, I haven't pushed them hard yet for fade resistance but give me a week and we'll see.
But so far they seem like a decent alternative to 1144/1155/DS2500's and at the minute they're just getting better as the miles pile on.
I've done 500 miles in total on them now, so far, so good, still no noise, still working just as well as 1144's from cold, and I reckon they're probably about 15% more outright braking power than 1144's as soon as they get a touch of heat from the first stop. Certainly better than stock pads even cold anyway.
Initial bite is good, pedal feel is still better than the 1144's/DS2500's were, dust seems to be on a par with 1144 but it's a little 'sticky' - like Ferrodo's - a bit harder to clean off but not in elbow grease + acid wheel cleaner league.
As far as I can tell they don't seem to be chewing into the disc, but I haven't done enough miles for a wear review yet.
Quite impressive tbh. And they don't have the previous EBC problem of having a shock when it's been raining, although that might be down to the discs.
I've taken the discs up to 550*c according to the AP paint, never had a hint of fade so I think they'll go much further - 1144's would have been fading badly quite a way before that.
I'd be quite tempted by these as the go-to pad for pretty much everything if it turns out they wear nicely too, they seem an ideal all around pad for road/fast road/short track sessions, anything more serious I think you'd want more outright power perhaps, but I'll keep pushing the temperatures up and see just how much heat they will take.
PhillipM said:
Update on the Bluestuff NDX pads Andy kindly sent me to try out - well, 2 updates rolled into one as I forgot to post one - after 200 miles of bedding (no serious abuse) the pedal feel was excellent - I'd say better than either 1144's or 2500's, again, bite from cold was just as hard, if not a touch harder, than 1144's, but they did get notably better after a couple of stops.
Still a little rumbly when cold but it was going away as they bedded in further, I haven't pushed them hard yet for fade resistance but give me a week and we'll see.
But so far they seem like a decent alternative to 1144/1155/DS2500's and at the minute they're just getting better as the miles pile on.
I've done 500 miles in total on them now, so far, so good, still no noise, still working just as well as 1144's from cold, and I reckon they're probably about 15% more outright braking power than 1144's as soon as they get a touch of heat from the first stop. Certainly better than stock pads even cold anyway.
Initial bite is good, pedal feel is still better than the 1144's/DS2500's were, dust seems to be on a par with 1144 but it's a little 'sticky' - like Ferrodo's - a bit harder to clean off but not in elbow grease + acid wheel cleaner league.
As far as I can tell they don't seem to be chewing into the disc, but I haven't done enough miles for a wear review yet.
Quite impressive tbh. And they don't have the previous EBC problem of having a shock when it's been raining, although that might be down to the discs.
I've taken the discs up to 550*c according to the AP paint, never had a hint of fade so I think they'll go much further - 1144's would have been fading badly quite a way before that.
I'd be quite tempted by these as the go-to pad for pretty much everything if it turns out they wear nicely too, they seem an ideal all around pad for road/fast road/short track sessions, anything more serious I think you'd want more outright power perhaps, but I'll keep pushing the temperatures up and see just how much heat they will take.
I don't think I've read a bad review about these yet. Ian at Godspeed has been raving about them - and he hated the previous EBC stuff.Still a little rumbly when cold but it was going away as they bedded in further, I haven't pushed them hard yet for fade resistance but give me a week and we'll see.
But so far they seem like a decent alternative to 1144/1155/DS2500's and at the minute they're just getting better as the miles pile on.
I've done 500 miles in total on them now, so far, so good, still no noise, still working just as well as 1144's from cold, and I reckon they're probably about 15% more outright braking power than 1144's as soon as they get a touch of heat from the first stop. Certainly better than stock pads even cold anyway.
Initial bite is good, pedal feel is still better than the 1144's/DS2500's were, dust seems to be on a par with 1144 but it's a little 'sticky' - like Ferrodo's - a bit harder to clean off but not in elbow grease + acid wheel cleaner league.
As far as I can tell they don't seem to be chewing into the disc, but I haven't done enough miles for a wear review yet.
Quite impressive tbh. And they don't have the previous EBC problem of having a shock when it's been raining, although that might be down to the discs.
I've taken the discs up to 550*c according to the AP paint, never had a hint of fade so I think they'll go much further - 1144's would have been fading badly quite a way before that.
I'd be quite tempted by these as the go-to pad for pretty much everything if it turns out they wear nicely too, they seem an ideal all around pad for road/fast road/short track sessions, anything more serious I think you'd want more outright power perhaps, but I'll keep pushing the temperatures up and see just how much heat they will take.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff