Discussion
djgritt said:
Sorry to hear of the headlight issues - the short throw when driving would drive me mad too.
Thought - when the headlights were modified, did they actually use your headlight assemblies or did they swap them for a set assembled from their own stock?
Could it be a coding issue where the headlight assemblies aren’t the originals and need to be integrated to the car? They could be in a default mode or similar.
I’ve seen other modern cars needing replacement headlights to be coded to their new recipient, maybe this is similar?
Hi,Thought - when the headlights were modified, did they actually use your headlight assemblies or did they swap them for a set assembled from their own stock?
Could it be a coding issue where the headlight assemblies aren’t the originals and need to be integrated to the car? They could be in a default mode or similar.
I’ve seen other modern cars needing replacement headlights to be coded to their new recipient, maybe this is similar?
No, they are the original assemblies, just new projectors, bulbs, lens covers, along with top and back access caps. Who knows. If this indy can't sort it I'm inclined to try my old indy before going to KYCS, unless Iridium (where it's booked in Monday) say it is definitely the headlights. If that's the case, I shall be mighty f
ked off.I am becoming somewhat despondent now. The indy has said they've checked the sensors - working fine. They have done an "FRM" reset (whatever that is???) and still no change. There are no fault codes stored. More diagnostic time required to test wiring for whole system.
Now, I'm getting very pissed off. Things are beginning to point to the actual headlights themselves, but KYCS insist the lights are OK.
Edit - Having spoken to KYCS they have just said bring the car back to them and leave it with them until resolved. So yeah, another trip to Birmingham 16th March. Yay.
Hassle, but hopefully they'll get it sorted.
Now, I'm getting very pissed off. Things are beginning to point to the actual headlights themselves, but KYCS insist the lights are OK.
Edit - Having spoken to KYCS they have just said bring the car back to them and leave it with them until resolved. So yeah, another trip to Birmingham 16th March. Yay.
Hassle, but hopefully they'll get it sorted.
Edited by E90_M3Ross on Monday 26th February 16:53
Court_S said:
What an absolute ball ache.
I can’t help feel that it’s an issue with the lights; if they were working as expected if a little dull before the new lights were fitted.
Not sure what an FRM reset is….the FRM is also known as the Footwell Control Module, located in the drivers footwell just in front of the door. It’s the module that controls the light functions amongst other things. They do often st themselves (FRM III seems to be the least reliable) but when they do die it results in things like no lights.
Yes, I'm beginning to think it's an issue with the lights, which there are two issues with.....I can’t help feel that it’s an issue with the lights; if they were working as expected if a little dull before the new lights were fitted.
Not sure what an FRM reset is….the FRM is also known as the Footwell Control Module, located in the drivers footwell just in front of the door. It’s the module that controls the light functions amongst other things. They do often s
t themselves (FRM III seems to be the least reliable) but when they do die it results in things like no lights.Firstly, if it is the lights, kycs should "owe" me for all this faff after going there initially. The indy has said it's already 3 hours labour plus a standard £75 diagnostic fee. That, and also I'm having to take an additional trip to Birmingham and back twice (to get there and back whilst I leave it there, and again to collect it). I don't count the initial trip because I'd have had to do that anyway if it was the lights. So I'm looking at a good £6-700 there, if not more.
Then.....I cannot see them ever admitting that it was the headlights, because of the above.
So in some better news - after speaking to the receptionist yesterday who said "we're currently around 3 hours in plus the standard diagnostics check cost of £75" meant to me what....perhaps £90/hour x 3 = £270 + £75 so around the £350 mark. They only billed me £76, so that is a bonus.
Spoke to the guy who worked on the car and he said this:
We checked the sensor data, they're basically potentiometers and go from 0 to 5V, and they're working fine. Diagnostics picked up no faults between the sensors and the FRM module, and no faults between the FRM and the headlights. That's where we're at. Next step would really be to remove the lights and check all the connections to them, and after that it would be a case of opening them up, which I don't really want to do, especially because you've said they're under warranty elsewhere."
We discussed this issue briefly: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49...
He said that he couldn't, at this stage, rule it out or confirm that is the issue, but said it definitely could be, however, it would be pretty rotten luck for it to be both sides, but not impossible if they were tampered with. This actually gave me more confidence in the indy, and the fact they only charged me the £76 means I'm inclined to give them another go.
In my mind I am now over 90% sure that it is an issue with the headlights and KYCS will have to sort it.
I have got the car back now, and I just filled it up with ESSO's finest.
My fear now, however, is that I go to KYCS, leave it with them, and them they still say "lights are fine". Then it's a case of someone will have to open the lights up. I suspect, at this stage, that if it is a lights fault that KYCS will fix it - because if they don't, and someone else finds it is a fault with the headlights, I'll be asking for significant compensation, either by asking them directly or a phone call to American Express.
Last night I was very, very pissed off to put it politely. Today, having spoken to the indy this morning, and KYCS having now confirmed the car is booked in on the 16th, I am feeling a bit more upbeat, but I still won't be happy until someone says "fixed".
I could never have imagined this could turn into something so complicated and annoying.
Spoke to the guy who worked on the car and he said this:
We checked the sensor data, they're basically potentiometers and go from 0 to 5V, and they're working fine. Diagnostics picked up no faults between the sensors and the FRM module, and no faults between the FRM and the headlights. That's where we're at. Next step would really be to remove the lights and check all the connections to them, and after that it would be a case of opening them up, which I don't really want to do, especially because you've said they're under warranty elsewhere."
We discussed this issue briefly: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49...
He said that he couldn't, at this stage, rule it out or confirm that is the issue, but said it definitely could be, however, it would be pretty rotten luck for it to be both sides, but not impossible if they were tampered with. This actually gave me more confidence in the indy, and the fact they only charged me the £76 means I'm inclined to give them another go.
In my mind I am now over 90% sure that it is an issue with the headlights and KYCS will have to sort it.
I have got the car back now, and I just filled it up with ESSO's finest.
My fear now, however, is that I go to KYCS, leave it with them, and them they still say "lights are fine". Then it's a case of someone will have to open the lights up. I suspect, at this stage, that if it is a lights fault that KYCS will fix it - because if they don't, and someone else finds it is a fault with the headlights, I'll be asking for significant compensation, either by asking them directly or a phone call to American Express.
Last night I was very, very pissed off to put it politely. Today, having spoken to the indy this morning, and KYCS having now confirmed the car is booked in on the 16th, I am feeling a bit more upbeat, but I still won't be happy until someone says "fixed".
I could never have imagined this could turn into something so complicated and annoying.
BenS94 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
So in some better news - after speaking to the receptionist yesterday who said "we're currently around 3 hours in plus the standard diagnostics check cost of £75" meant to me what....perhaps £90/hour x 3 = £270 + £75 so around the £350 mark. They only billed me £76, so that is a bonus.
Spoke to the guy who worked on the car and he said this:
We checked the sensor data, they're basically potentiometers and go from 0 to 5V, and they're working fine. Diagnostics picked up no faults between the sensors and the FRM module, and no faults between the FRM and the headlights. That's where we're at. Next step would really be to remove the lights and check all the connections to them, and after that it would be a case of opening them up, which I don't really want to do, especially because you've said they're under warranty elsewhere."
We discussed this issue briefly: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49...
He said that he couldn't, at this stage, rule it out or confirm that is the issue, but said it definitely could be, however, it would be pretty rotten luck for it to be both sides, but not impossible if they were tampered with. This actually gave me more confidence in the indy, and the fact they only charged me the £76 means I'm inclined to give them another go.
In my mind I am now over 90% sure that it is an issue with the headlights and KYCS will have to sort it.
I have got the car back now, and I just filled it up with ESSO's finest.
My fear now, however, is that I go to KYCS, leave it with them, and them they still say "lights are fine". Then it's a case of someone will have to open the lights up. I suspect, at this stage, that if it is a lights fault that KYCS will fix it - because if they don't, and someone else finds it is a fault with the headlights, I'll be asking for significant compensation, either by asking them directly or a phone call to American Express.
Last night I was very, very pissed off to put it politely. Today, having spoken to the indy this morning, and KYCS having now confirmed the car is booked in on the 16th, I am feeling a bit more upbeat, but I still won't be happy until someone says "fixed".
I could never have imagined this could turn into something so complicated and annoying.
Did you pay via bank card or credit card? If no outcome this time, I'd be doing a chargebackSpoke to the guy who worked on the car and he said this:
We checked the sensor data, they're basically potentiometers and go from 0 to 5V, and they're working fine. Diagnostics picked up no faults between the sensors and the FRM module, and no faults between the FRM and the headlights. That's where we're at. Next step would really be to remove the lights and check all the connections to them, and after that it would be a case of opening them up, which I don't really want to do, especially because you've said they're under warranty elsewhere."
We discussed this issue briefly: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49...
He said that he couldn't, at this stage, rule it out or confirm that is the issue, but said it definitely could be, however, it would be pretty rotten luck for it to be both sides, but not impossible if they were tampered with. This actually gave me more confidence in the indy, and the fact they only charged me the £76 means I'm inclined to give them another go.
In my mind I am now over 90% sure that it is an issue with the headlights and KYCS will have to sort it.
I have got the car back now, and I just filled it up with ESSO's finest.
My fear now, however, is that I go to KYCS, leave it with them, and them they still say "lights are fine". Then it's a case of someone will have to open the lights up. I suspect, at this stage, that if it is a lights fault that KYCS will fix it - because if they don't, and someone else finds it is a fault with the headlights, I'll be asking for significant compensation, either by asking them directly or a phone call to American Express.
Last night I was very, very pissed off to put it politely. Today, having spoken to the indy this morning, and KYCS having now confirmed the car is booked in on the 16th, I am feeling a bit more upbeat, but I still won't be happy until someone says "fixed".
I could never have imagined this could turn into something so complicated and annoying.
Thoughts?
helix402 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
I think about £1600. However, I don't think that includes the bulbs, and the projectors in my lights at the moment are better by some margin.
New BMW headlights normally come complete with all bulbs. 
KYCS have also confirmed they have "ISTA, as well as ProTool, NCS, Tool32 etc"
Edited by E90_M3Ross on Tuesday 27th February 16:53
car user said:
I might have missed it, but have you tried plugging in an original headlight to test if the levelling works. That would be the fastest way to diagnose the lights. Surely KYCS would have some old junk lights to test.
You can buy damaged ones on eBay for as little as £50.
M539 restorations just did a new episode on his M3 which included a full rebuild of his xenons with new projectors. Might be helpful to watch that to understand the innards of the lights.
I'm not aware of any software fix that might be needed. There is a function inside the FRM that disables the xenon bulbs if you get several consecutive bulb faults and it requires a diag tool reset to re-enable, but for levelling I don't think there's anything like that.
So here is the issue......KYCS said they did chuck in a pair of other lights and said the issue was still present. I'm not 100% convinced. They called me, at most, 40mins after I dropped the car off (at which time they were also talking to someone else). To remove the bumper, headlights, and put in other lights and test them.....that seems awfully fast to me. The car is going back 16th March and I will basically say "I don't care if it's the headlights or not, fix it"You can buy damaged ones on eBay for as little as £50.
M539 restorations just did a new episode on his M3 which included a full rebuild of his xenons with new projectors. Might be helpful to watch that to understand the innards of the lights.
I'm not aware of any software fix that might be needed. There is a function inside the FRM that disables the xenon bulbs if you get several consecutive bulb faults and it requires a diag tool reset to re-enable, but for levelling I don't think there's anything like that.
Yes, I saw the M539 video and actually took some screenshots. His setup is actually marginally inferior to mine from what I gather, in the sense his projectors are not quite as good. But have a look at this - you can clearly see mine are not right:
His before:
His after:
And mine:
You can obviously see that the beam strength/light output on mine is absolutely amazing, but you can also see how ridiculously short the throw is. That said, since this image the headlights have been manually raised as far as is possible, so they're marginally better, but it is not by much.
Thing is, if it is not the headlights, what else can it be? Modules have been checked and no fault codes on my indy's diagnostics......
I do wonder whether KYCS didn't check fully, and I will never find out because they will never admit it. I just want it sorted as I'm utterly fed up now.
Basically after first finding the fault I went from home (Portchester/Fareham sort of area) to near Basingstoke to be told it wasn't the sensors and likely the lights. Then booked in and went to Birmingham to be told it's the sensors so back to Basingstoke to have new sensors fitted. Still not working, so then to an indy in Hedge End to be told it's likely the headlights....so back to Birmingham again in 2 weeks and I'll have to leave the car there. I'm not happy about it.
On the plus side, however, the car is running really well and I am enjoying driving it when I do. I haven't needed to drive at night for some time, but I suspect I will have to next Saturday, and that will be it until it gets dropped off to Birmingham.
Providing they sort my lights out I'll be content at the end of the month 
My issue is they say they can't do mechanical work (don't even have a ramp). My issue is if they say they can't fix it.... Where to then? Back to indy? I'd then need to hope that an indy is willing to open up the lights for me and then also hope they can properly seal them. And then contact American Express.....
But lots of ifs and bits but I truly hope kycs can fix it. As said, the light output is mighty impressive and once sorted they'll be fantastic. I'm annoyed enough as it is, if I need to go to Birmingham and back twice (drop the car off, then collect it later) and it STILL need to go elsewhere I'll be extremely unhappy.
My issue is they say they can't do mechanical work (don't even have a ramp). My issue is if they say they can't fix it.... Where to then? Back to indy? I'd then need to hope that an indy is willing to open up the lights for me and then also hope they can properly seal them. And then contact American Express.....
But lots of ifs and bits but I truly hope kycs can fix it. As said, the light output is mighty impressive and once sorted they'll be fantastic. I'm annoyed enough as it is, if I need to go to Birmingham and back twice (drop the car off, then collect it later) and it STILL need to go elsewhere I'll be extremely unhappy.
Gallons Per Mile said:
I wonder if theres an outside chance the lights just haven't been fitted to the car correctly? Ie the housings are just pointing at the floor too much. Stranger things have happened, but seeing as two or three separate companies have looked at them you might think something as obvious as this would be picked up already. Good luck with getting them sorted. The light output on mine looks weak compared!
You'd have thought so, especially considering kycs said they have already removed them and tested another pair.Yep, the light output is seriously impressive, it's a shame that by the time they're sorted it'll be BST and I won't need them
BenS94 said:
Well my replies were removed. Yet Ross' detailing his constant issues and the company name are still there. Grow up, who ever reported it, pathetic.
Anyway, I hope these fantastic* lights by a flawless* company, clearly run by lovely* caring* people, get sorted soon.
We shall see. If they don't sort them I shall be at a bit of a loose end to be honest. Anyway, I hope these fantastic* lights by a flawless* company, clearly run by lovely* caring* people, get sorted soon.
d_a_n1979 said:
Bluddy'ell Ross 
I can't get to them until quote late on the Saturday as I'm going straight after work. Apparently the main guy will be hanging around to allow me to drop it off. With that in mind, I anticipate them to start work on the Monday 18th and if I'm very lucky I'll hear back then.The car is otherwise doing very well.
I noticed yesterday that there was a slightly larger gap between the bottom outer edges of the headlights and the bumpers than before (checked with photos). This suggests that maybe kycs did indeed take the bumper off, so it is probably quite likely they did swap the lights out. Who knows.
The enigma gets weirder
The enigma gets weirder
d_a_n1979 said:
Any updates Ross or is this still testing your resolve?
No updates, it hasn't been looked at since the last update. Being driven to KYCS tomorrow after I finish work. They usually finish at 4pm, which may be pushing it time-wise for me but they said they'd wait for me to arrive. Will leave it with them and hope to collect it all working on the 23rd, although I must admit I'm not hopeful. The last thing I want is to collect it and it still not be working, I don't want the faff of going to yet another place to investigate.d_a_n1979 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
d_a_n1979 said:
Any updates Ross or is this still testing your resolve?
No updates, it hasn't been looked at since the last update. Being driven to KYCS tomorrow after I finish work. They usually finish at 4pm, which may be pushing it time-wise for me but they said they'd wait for me to arrive. Will leave it with them and hope to collect it all working on the 23rd, although I must admit I'm not hopeful. The last thing I want is to collect it and it still not be working, I don't want the faff of going to yet another place to investigate.Car dropped off and spoke to the main guy there and he said they'd try and have a look this evening, but I am not expecting much, purely because of the time. Fingers crossed they can sort it for collection next weekend.
I am doing a north Scotland trip in June which will be around 2000 miles again, I'm half tempted to get the car booked in for a general check in early May to make sure all is well (eg radiator/water pump/hoses, PAS hoses, brake hoses, check engine, gearbox, diff etc for leaks, check the pulleys and belts and so on) but not sure if it's worth it or not. I probably will as a check won't cost much.
I am doing a north Scotland trip in June which will be around 2000 miles again, I'm half tempted to get the car booked in for a general check in early May to make sure all is well (eg radiator/water pump/hoses, PAS hoses, brake hoses, check engine, gearbox, diff etc for leaks, check the pulleys and belts and so on) but not sure if it's worth it or not. I probably will as a check won't cost much.
d_a_n1979 said:
E90_M3Ross said:
Can you imagine if all of this was just because the sensor was fitted upside down
Unfortunately yes... Been there/done that when I refreshed all the suspension on my E39 touring Ross...Think I mentioned this a few pages back...
I could not for the life of me figure out what was going on; until I took the rear wheels off to clean them as per my OCD goes at times
and thought it didn't look right... Cos it wasn't Either way, it sounds like they're doing a good job and sounds that it wasn't the headlights after all.
So I hadn't heard anything since Tuesday. Considering they're shut on Friday and I wanted to collect the car Saturday, which means that it'd need to have been done by this evening.
I messaged them just after midday today. It is now gone 8pm. I have heard nothing.
I don't even know what to think now or how to feel about the whole situation now. I can at least say I am beyond fed up.
I messaged them just after midday today. It is now gone 8pm. I have heard nothing.
I don't even know what to think now or how to feel about the whole situation now. I can at least say I am beyond fed up.
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