Phoenix from the flames - Porsche Boxster with an Audi 2.7T
Discussion
Shadow R1 said:
Can you try a battery off another car ?
It might diagnose if that one is toast, or something else.
Are you charging it, isolated from the car ?
It's helped with my bikes in the past.
I start it off my bigger battery connected with jump leads, the voltage drops on that while cranking to 10.5v so that's a little lower than I'd like. The Odyssey won't even click the solenoid on the starter it's that flat, i'm thinking there could be a poor connection somewhere that the bigger battery can overcome but the little one stands no chance. Just taken it off the car to charge as I had been doing it on the car. My charger works for 5 minutes then says it's done and switches off. When I put my multimeter you can see the volts dropping from 12.7 to 12.0 at rate of 0.1 every couple of seconds. If it's not dead, it's definately hurt. I'm trying a repair feature on it. In the past it went low to the point I had to remove it to jump start the car and connect the power lead to it with the engine running as I couldn't jump start with it connected. That time it took a charge from then alternator and was ok afterwards. Now it's not charging off the alternator. It might diagnose if that one is toast, or something else.
Are you charging it, isolated from the car ?
It's helped with my bikes in the past.
Just wanted to chime in that your car is fab and have been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now - I check daily for updates. 
As regards the fella commenting on the exhaust welds, it sounds like a touch of jealousy there. As my Dad used to say, 'What's it got to do with him?'
As regards the fella commenting on the exhaust welds, it sounds like a touch of jealousy there. As my Dad used to say, 'What's it got to do with him?'
[quote=Escy]The piping is 19mm ID, that's the size I see on OEM systems and its the size the pumps and cores tend to be. The pipe work does go soft but I don't use this inside the engine bay, use traditional black water hoses there. That pipe work is what's sold on the chargecooler.co.uk website so figured it's up to the job. I like it because it's clear so you can see any air bubbles (and there are always loads to work out). It stains so only useful the first time you fill the system up, those pipes in the picture are empty.
If anyone has some suggestions on different hose to use I'd like to know. A reel of proper black coolant hose is heavy
How about using domestic copper pipeing ?
If anyone has some suggestions on different hose to use I'd like to know. A reel of proper black coolant hose is heavy
How about using domestic copper pipeing ?
Escy said:
One pull and the inlet temperatures went straight from 27 degrees to 57 degrees so it's safe to say the charge coolers aren't sorted. There is air in the system again, I can tell but that's not the issue, the charge coolers are cold to the touch, they'd be hot if the coolant wasn't circulating through them properly. I think it's probably there isn't enough surface area inside them. The coolant was cold still. I'm going to switch to some OEM charge coolers they seem better designed, i'll trawl ebay for options, any suggestions welcome (ideally 2.5" boost pipes and not physically huge as I need one per side).
I think you need to do multiple pulls before writing them off. I'd expect an initial significant rise in inlet temps, even with a good setup - the key is whether it can then hold the 57degC over several pulls. It'll take a lot of pulls to get the coolant warm.Subaru fitted factory charge-coolers to some Legacy’s. Might be worth a look.
http://www.ricola.co.uk/charge.htm
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/chargecooler-ins...
http://www.ricola.co.uk/charge.htm
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/chargecooler-ins...
Shadow R1 said:
It will be interesting to know, what the charger does once it's off the car.
A static drop like that might indicate an open cell in the battery.
Somethings up. I did a charge with this battery connected to the a normal acid fully charged 12v, this apparently tricks the charger into charging them when they'd normally switch off. It charged for about 12 hours in recovery mode. Connected it to the car and got a click from the starter motor which is better than the nothing it was doing before. Not enough juice to turn it over. I will go for a decent drive once the corona lock down is over and see how it is then. Got a feeling i'll end up replacing it. A static drop like that might indicate an open cell in the battery.
BergunSlangler said:
Just wanted to chime in that your car is fab and have been keeping an eye on this thread for a while now - I check daily for updates.
As regards the fella commenting on the exhaust welds, it sounds like a touch of jealousy there. As my Dad used to say, 'What's it got to do with him?'
Thanks, it's good to know people enjoy reading it still, it's dragging on a bit now. Hopefully time for some videos soon. As regards the fella commenting on the exhaust welds, it sounds like a touch of jealousy there. As my Dad used to say, 'What's it got to do with him?'
Alan535 said:
How about using domestic copper pipeing ?
I just saw that on an episode of Mighty Car Mods, hadn't considered copper piping before. Could be an option. I wonder how solder joints handle vibration?amstrange1 said:
I think you need to do multiple pulls before writing them off. I'd expect an initial significant rise in inlet temps, even with a good setup - the key is whether it can then hold the 57degC over several pulls. It'll take a lot of pulls to get the coolant warm.
I don't really consider 57c degrees to be acceptable let alone want it to hold that that level consistently. I'm going to change the cores and see if I can improve on it.paralla said:
Subaru fitted factory charge-coolers to some Legacy’s. Might be worth a look.
http://www.ricola.co.uk/charge.htm
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/chargecooler-ins...
I wasn't aware the Legacy came with water to air charge cooling.http://www.ricola.co.uk/charge.htm
http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/chargecooler-ins...
When scouring ebay I noticed that while lots of modern stuff uses them now nearly everything is too hard to easily adapt, lots of the BMW stuff have throttle body's bolted to them, lots of the VAG, Mercedes and JLR options use odd hose connectors on one or both sides and the same for the coolant lines. I stumbled across a pair of charge coolers from a Mercedes S600 (V12 twin turbo), I liked these are they are a bit of an older generation where the use normal hoses for boost pipes and coolant pipes, being from a V engine they are opposite of each other which should help me make a reasonable job of installing them. they are also all alloy rather than plastic like the more modern ones. They are off an engine that knocks out 493bhp in it's lowest spec so should be up to the task. The best bit was they were £60 posted for the pair
I'll post more pictures of them and compare to the ones on it at the moment when I swap them over. The core design is so much better. It's likely to be a week or so as another car is stuck in the garage at the moment.
Great build!
If you run out of ideas with the intercoolers you may want to consider an Interchiller. Just had one fitted to my Monaro.
https://fiinterchillers.com/products/
Killer chiller do a slightly smaller version.
https://killerchiller.com/t/audi-2004-2014
Unlike air to water charge coolers, these don’t need to be in air flow and can be put pretty much anywhere.
If you run out of ideas with the intercoolers you may want to consider an Interchiller. Just had one fitted to my Monaro.
https://fiinterchillers.com/products/
Killer chiller do a slightly smaller version.
https://killerchiller.com/t/audi-2004-2014
Unlike air to water charge coolers, these don’t need to be in air flow and can be put pretty much anywhere.
Escy said:
amstrange1 said:
I think you need to do multiple pulls before writing them off. I'd expect an initial significant rise in inlet temps, even with a good setup - the key is whether it can then hold the 57degC over several pulls. It'll take a lot of pulls to get the coolant warm.
I don't really consider 57c degrees to be acceptable let alone want it to hold that that level consistently. I'm going to change the cores and see if I can improve on it.If you're seeing 57degC on a circa 25degC day even after repeated pulls it suggests it's working quite well. My old A6 with factory chargecooler ran hotter than that.
Adding a larger heat exchanger will always help initially, as you've got more thermal mass to dump the heat into. Without refrigerant cooling you'll be doing well to keep the water temps consistently below 55degC in a 25-30degC ambient, so inlet air temp will always be slightly higher than that. Putting larger cores on will mean more pulls before the water temp heats up and stabilises of course though.
Ecsy said:
I just saw that on an episode of Mighty Car Mods, hadn't considered copper piping before. Could be an option. I wonder how solder joints handle vibration?
Your soldering is s
t, I'd practice a bit beforehand or stick to compression fittings 
As long as it's well clamped to avoid too much flex you should be fine, radiators are soldered...
amstrange1 said:
What inlet temps are you expecting from the system?
If you're seeing 57degC on a circa 25degC day even after repeated pulls it suggests it's working quite well. My old A6 with factory chargecooler ran hotter than that.
Adding a larger heat exchanger will always help initially, as you've got more thermal mass to dump the heat into. Without refrigerant cooling you'll be doing well to keep the water temps consistently below 55degC in a 25-30degC ambient, so inlet air temp will always be slightly higher than that. Putting larger cores on will mean more pulls before the water temp heats up and stabilises of course though.
I'm not really sure what i'm expecting, but I think I can improve on what it's currently doing. It wasn't 25 degree's ambient when I made the pull, probably around 15 degrees. The inlet temperatures were reading 25 degrees at the start but the air filters will be drawing in some hotter air from the engine compartment. The charge cooler heat exchanger cores remain cold to the touch even when everything else in the engine compartment is hot, the coolant is still cold, I simply think the charge coolers aren't transferring the heat out of the charge air into the coolant efficiently. I'll post pictures of the cores when I remove them, huge difference between the surface area on those and the Mercedes one's I've just bought. If you're seeing 57degC on a circa 25degC day even after repeated pulls it suggests it's working quite well. My old A6 with factory chargecooler ran hotter than that.
Adding a larger heat exchanger will always help initially, as you've got more thermal mass to dump the heat into. Without refrigerant cooling you'll be doing well to keep the water temps consistently below 55degC in a 25-30degC ambient, so inlet air temp will always be slightly higher than that. Putting larger cores on will mean more pulls before the water temp heats up and stabilises of course though.
WinstonWolf said:
Your soldering is st, I'd practice a bit beforehand or stick to compression fittings
As long as it's well clamped to avoid too much flex you should be fine, radiators are soldered...
I also had a power steering pipe burst off before so my track record with compression fittings is also questionable.t, I'd practice a bit beforehand or stick to compression fittings As long as it's well clamped to avoid too much flex you should be fine, radiators are soldered...
Edited by Escy on Wednesday 15th April 00:15
A comparison of the old barrel style charge cooler and the Mercedes, it's a fair bit bigger.
This is what the core looked like in the barrel, not great for airflow.
This is the Mercedes one, looks more like a traditional air to air intercooler, lots more surface area.
Fitted them, I spent about 4 hours working out where they were going to go, so many considerations, how to mount them, where to run coolant lines, how will I connect up the boost hoses.
After that was done the next headache was the air filters, these buggers have been an issue right from the start. I ended up deciding they will have to be mounted right at the bottom under the turbos. I bolted them to the under body bracing, tapping a thread.
Bolted a piece of 2.5" diameter pipe to it with some silicone pipe pieces under to give it a bit of movement.
Connected up with some very bendy hose.
View from above, with the coolant lines connected.
I ran the hoses around the front of the engine rather than over the inlet manifold like last time, it's a cleaner look (although it's a pretty messy looking engine with hoses all over the place)
The hoses have a bleed point before and after the charge coolers.
This is how the air filters sit, a little lower than i'd like but i'm pretty limited on what I can do. Being low they should get a decent amount of cold air, I think my wading depth might be some what lower than a standard car. I'm not likely to be using it in the rain so it's not an issue. I've been directly over one of those hump speed bumps and they are still there so that's good.
I decided to change the grub screw I was using to bleed the charge cooler radiator at the front for one with a Schrader valve (like you get on a tyre) in it. The old one was starting to round off, it was a pain in the arse to bleed before as when the air cleared the coolant would start gushing out with loads of force. This works nicely. Whilst I was with the bumper off I changed the leaking headlight washer.
This is what the core looked like in the barrel, not great for airflow.
This is the Mercedes one, looks more like a traditional air to air intercooler, lots more surface area.
Fitted them, I spent about 4 hours working out where they were going to go, so many considerations, how to mount them, where to run coolant lines, how will I connect up the boost hoses.
After that was done the next headache was the air filters, these buggers have been an issue right from the start. I ended up deciding they will have to be mounted right at the bottom under the turbos. I bolted them to the under body bracing, tapping a thread.
Bolted a piece of 2.5" diameter pipe to it with some silicone pipe pieces under to give it a bit of movement.
Connected up with some very bendy hose.
View from above, with the coolant lines connected.
I ran the hoses around the front of the engine rather than over the inlet manifold like last time, it's a cleaner look (although it's a pretty messy looking engine with hoses all over the place)
The hoses have a bleed point before and after the charge coolers.
This is how the air filters sit, a little lower than i'd like but i'm pretty limited on what I can do. Being low they should get a decent amount of cold air, I think my wading depth might be some what lower than a standard car. I'm not likely to be using it in the rain so it's not an issue. I've been directly over one of those hump speed bumps and they are still there so that's good.
I decided to change the grub screw I was using to bleed the charge cooler radiator at the front for one with a Schrader valve (like you get on a tyre) in it. The old one was starting to round off, it was a pain in the arse to bleed before as when the air cleared the coolant would start gushing out with loads of force. This works nicely. Whilst I was with the bumper off I changed the leaking headlight washer.
I keep reading about 996 owners changing their engine mounts and Boxster owners changing their gearbox mounts (same part) and the big difference it makes. My gearbox mounts are probably past their best, I noticed on the dyno the engine was steady during a pull but when it hit the limiter it bounced side to side more than i'd like, it's these mounts that limit that movement. I went for the 964RS mounts which seem popular. It's been a while since i've driven it but I think they've made a negative impact on harshness inside the cabin and noise. I think maybe i'd have been better off with new OEM mounts.
There's an issue somewhere on the drivetrain which these mounts have amplified. The last few times i've been out in it, i've noticed a roughness (kind of like rusty discs, scraping the pads sound) as i'm pulling away or applying throttle at low speeds. It's not the engine as if I take it out of gear the noise goes, it's not the rear brakes binding as if I brake as it's doing it there is no change. The idle doesn't sound particularly nice it's got the same harshness from the exhaust, it's not loud but you can notice it. The exhaust is bolted to the gearbox and i've got a feeling it's amplifying a bad bearing inside the the gearbox itself, I can smell another brake down coming my way unless I get to the bottom if it.
I've not been able to fully test the new charge coolers as I keeping running into an overboost protection on the ECU, I need to play around with the PID settings for the boost solenoid but from initial testing things are looking good, the temps seem low, the coolant warms up so they are exchanging heat but the coolant cools down quickly when driving off boost so the radiator up front is doing it's job.
There's an issue somewhere on the drivetrain which these mounts have amplified. The last few times i've been out in it, i've noticed a roughness (kind of like rusty discs, scraping the pads sound) as i'm pulling away or applying throttle at low speeds. It's not the engine as if I take it out of gear the noise goes, it's not the rear brakes binding as if I brake as it's doing it there is no change. The idle doesn't sound particularly nice it's got the same harshness from the exhaust, it's not loud but you can notice it. The exhaust is bolted to the gearbox and i've got a feeling it's amplifying a bad bearing inside the the gearbox itself, I can smell another brake down coming my way unless I get to the bottom if it.
I've not been able to fully test the new charge coolers as I keeping running into an overboost protection on the ECU, I need to play around with the PID settings for the boost solenoid but from initial testing things are looking good, the temps seem low, the coolant warms up so they are exchanging heat but the coolant cools down quickly when driving off boost so the radiator up front is doing it's job.
Good progress with the charge coolers and air filters. It's coming together nicely.
The scraping noise - is it only when the car is moving or even when stationary in gear? If when moving then could be the thin alloy plates behind the disks touching a disc. I had this and in the end decided to remove them and live with the dust - race spec Boxters have them removed so should be OK.
If it happens when the car is stationery and in gear with the clutch peddle down then goes away if you put it in neutral then very odd!
The scraping noise - is it only when the car is moving or even when stationary in gear? If when moving then could be the thin alloy plates behind the disks touching a disc. I had this and in the end decided to remove them and live with the dust - race spec Boxters have them removed so should be OK.
If it happens when the car is stationery and in gear with the clutch peddle down then goes away if you put it in neutral then very odd!
Thanks all. I'm half tempted to do a little more work on the rear arches but there is a fine line between looking ok and ruined, I don't wan't to push my luck.
The car has been annoying to live with lately, my small race battery had drained and it has been ruined. I needed to carry a big battery to jump start it all the time and even then it'd struggle, i'd sometimes see under 8v as it was turning over. If I turn the engine off, it won't restart. Because my battery is sat under my charge cooler tank it made it more hassle to jump start it than a normal Boxster. I bought another battery the same to replace the dead one.
To stop the same thing happening where the battery goes flat and dies I needed a cut off, the problem with a Boxster is the battery is under the bonnet but the release is electric rather than cable. This means you can't disconnect the battery and close the bonnet properly (there is an emergency release but it's not something you'd want to be using often). I found a thing called a Battery Brain, these are electromagnetic cut off switches that connect to the battery positive cable. If it detects the battery voltage drops bellow 11.8v, it'll automatically isolate the battery from the car to stop it draining. It has a remote so you connect it back up. Perfect for what I need. They don't seem that well marketed which is odd as it's a nice product, mine has a 2007 build date! I bought the marine version, same product but has a higher IP rating. Rain water does drain down where the battery lives. The alarm has a battery backup inside the siren, when the power would be disconnected at 11.8v the siren would go off, to stop this I opened up the siren and disconnected the battery.
DanG355 said:
Good progress with the charge coolers and air filters. It's coming together nicely.
The scraping noise - is it only when the car is moving or even when stationary in gear? If when moving then could be the thin alloy plates behind the disks touching a disc. I had this and in the end decided to remove them and live with the dust - race spec Boxters have them removed so should be OK.
If it happens when the car is stationery and in gear with the clutch peddle down then goes away if you put it in neutral then very odd!
The scraping noise is when I move off, I jacked it up to check out the disc shields after your suggestion, no issues there. The gearbox oil level was lower than it should have been so i've topped it up. I think this is probably the issue, time will tell if it's been hurt.The scraping noise - is it only when the car is moving or even when stationary in gear? If when moving then could be the thin alloy plates behind the disks touching a disc. I had this and in the end decided to remove them and live with the dust - race spec Boxters have them removed so should be OK.
If it happens when the car is stationery and in gear with the clutch peddle down then goes away if you put it in neutral then very odd!
The car has been annoying to live with lately, my small race battery had drained and it has been ruined. I needed to carry a big battery to jump start it all the time and even then it'd struggle, i'd sometimes see under 8v as it was turning over. If I turn the engine off, it won't restart. Because my battery is sat under my charge cooler tank it made it more hassle to jump start it than a normal Boxster. I bought another battery the same to replace the dead one.
To stop the same thing happening where the battery goes flat and dies I needed a cut off, the problem with a Boxster is the battery is under the bonnet but the release is electric rather than cable. This means you can't disconnect the battery and close the bonnet properly (there is an emergency release but it's not something you'd want to be using often). I found a thing called a Battery Brain, these are electromagnetic cut off switches that connect to the battery positive cable. If it detects the battery voltage drops bellow 11.8v, it'll automatically isolate the battery from the car to stop it draining. It has a remote so you connect it back up. Perfect for what I need. They don't seem that well marketed which is odd as it's a nice product, mine has a 2007 build date! I bought the marine version, same product but has a higher IP rating. Rain water does drain down where the battery lives. The alarm has a battery backup inside the siren, when the power would be disconnected at 11.8v the siren would go off, to stop this I opened up the siren and disconnected the battery.
Edited by Escy on Saturday 2nd May 13:36
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