Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
16M/Scuderia Front ARB
The 16M and Scuderia have a unique front anti-roll bar which I've measured at 18mm diameter. It is steel construction. I have removed my original front bar which measures 19mm in diameter. The F430 has a slight propensity to understeer when pushed and this is one of the changes that will help to rectify that and make it a little bit more of a drivers car.
I found the best approach was to remove the front undertray and set up a light underneath the car so that the bar can be guided out of the whelarch. Dad helped me with this - it's a two man job really that involves turning of the bar in various directions as it is withdrawn in order to clear the car and keep it away from AC & coolant hoses
Here's my original F430 bar (top) and Scuderia bar (bottom).
Scuderia bar installed and the photo also shows the narrow space we had to work with. I have a pair of bushes on order to suit the smaller diameter bar.
An ARB has both sprung and unsprung weight. My weight calculations for the ARB take this into account and went something like:
1) Measured length from the end to the bush stop, viewing this length as the lever i.e. unsprung section;
2) Measured the straight length between the bush stops - the sprung section;
3) Working on the basis the bar is equal in thickness divide total grams by total length to get g/mm;
4) g/mm x lever mm x 2 = unsprung weight;
5) g/mm x sprung section mm = sprung weight;
6) Calculate delta between F430 and 16m/Scuderia bars.
I realise that to be completely accurate would be more in-depth, but please pick me up if the general approach is incorrect.
16M/Scuderia suspension - Right side front
Front right fitted showing Scuderia bar in situ.
Weight savings
Total sprung weight saved: 20.85 kg
Total unsprung weight saved: 12.26 kg
Total weight saved: 33.11 kg
The 16M and Scuderia have a unique front anti-roll bar which I've measured at 18mm diameter. It is steel construction. I have removed my original front bar which measures 19mm in diameter. The F430 has a slight propensity to understeer when pushed and this is one of the changes that will help to rectify that and make it a little bit more of a drivers car.
I found the best approach was to remove the front undertray and set up a light underneath the car so that the bar can be guided out of the whelarch. Dad helped me with this - it's a two man job really that involves turning of the bar in various directions as it is withdrawn in order to clear the car and keep it away from AC & coolant hoses
Here's my original F430 bar (top) and Scuderia bar (bottom).
Scuderia bar installed and the photo also shows the narrow space we had to work with. I have a pair of bushes on order to suit the smaller diameter bar.
An ARB has both sprung and unsprung weight. My weight calculations for the ARB take this into account and went something like:
1) Measured length from the end to the bush stop, viewing this length as the lever i.e. unsprung section;
2) Measured the straight length between the bush stops - the sprung section;
3) Working on the basis the bar is equal in thickness divide total grams by total length to get g/mm;
4) g/mm x lever mm x 2 = unsprung weight;
5) g/mm x sprung section mm = sprung weight;
6) Calculate delta between F430 and 16m/Scuderia bars.
I realise that to be completely accurate would be more in-depth, but please pick me up if the general approach is incorrect.
16M/Scuderia suspension - Right side front
Front right fitted showing Scuderia bar in situ.
Weight savings
| Part | Fitted quantity | Original part (kg) | Replacement part (kg) | Sprung Saving (kg) | Unsprung Saving (kg) | Replacement Part - Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Front brake disc | 2 | 8.3 | 6.77 | - | 3.06 | CCM - 380mm (alloy bell) |
| Rear brake disc | 2 | 8.3 | 4.61 | - | 7.38 | CCM (alloy bell) |
| Front brake caliper with pads | 2 | 4.9 | 5.94 | - | -2.08 | CCM - 380mm |
| Rear brake caliper with pads | 2 | 4.9 | 4.72 | - | 0.36 | CCM |
| Exterior door handles | 2 | 0.065 | - | 0.02 | 0.09 | Carbon |
| PAS reservoir cap | 1 | 0 | 0.065 | -0.065 | - | Alloy cover |
| Fuel Flap | 1 | 0.143 | 0.128 | 0.015 | - | Carbon |
| Seats | 2 | 28.2 | 17.9 | 20.6 | - | 16M/Scuderia carbon |
| Front suspension strut & spring | 2 | 4.74 | 3.8 | - | 1.88 | 16M/Scuderia Mk2 |
| Rear suspension strut & spring | 2 | 5.37 | 4.59 | - | 1.56 | 16M/Scuderia Mk2 |
| Anti roll bar - Front | 1 | 3.04 | 2.73 | 0.21 | 0.1 | 16M/Scuderia |
Total sprung weight saved: 20.85 kg
Total unsprung weight saved: 12.26 kg
Total weight saved: 33.11 kg
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 15th March 12:54
Mark,
Not having visited your thread due to illness for a number of weeks was I surprised! - and in just about the right colour combination IMO.
Having driven mine for a while now I would still prefer the manual box - despite the lightning changes i miss the driver involvement and click clack of the gate from my 328 - I look forward to hear what you think.
Interestingly the new Porsche Boxter Spyder and at least one version of the F type Jaguar are only being offered with a manual transmission - perhaps Ferrari will take the hint.
My car,a late 2008 spider,has Daytona seats with Bordeaux stiching, but (unfortunately), lacks the Bordeaux inserts and Cavallino - I shall be interested to see as to the longevity of your fix.
I would have preferred fly yellow calipers to match the shields and would have left the wheels silver, but prefer the gold/rosso combination it now has - I have now replaced the yellow hub centres with red/black ones.
Where current prices are concerned I noticed that in the February C&SC a F430 spider was being offered at £145.5K - a 2005 car with steel brakes and nearly 2k on the odometer - makes mine look a complete bargain - whether it sold of course is a different matter but the advert has not re-appeared.
I understood that the 360 steering reservoir cap had more than one P/N? - would you happen to know the correct one and where did you purchase it from?
Keep updating your excellent thread - a master class in how to carry out DIY car modification!
ATB
Alan
Not having visited your thread due to illness for a number of weeks was I surprised! - and in just about the right colour combination IMO.
Having driven mine for a while now I would still prefer the manual box - despite the lightning changes i miss the driver involvement and click clack of the gate from my 328 - I look forward to hear what you think.
Interestingly the new Porsche Boxter Spyder and at least one version of the F type Jaguar are only being offered with a manual transmission - perhaps Ferrari will take the hint.
My car,a late 2008 spider,has Daytona seats with Bordeaux stiching, but (unfortunately), lacks the Bordeaux inserts and Cavallino - I shall be interested to see as to the longevity of your fix.
I would have preferred fly yellow calipers to match the shields and would have left the wheels silver, but prefer the gold/rosso combination it now has - I have now replaced the yellow hub centres with red/black ones.
Where current prices are concerned I noticed that in the February C&SC a F430 spider was being offered at £145.5K - a 2005 car with steel brakes and nearly 2k on the odometer - makes mine look a complete bargain - whether it sold of course is a different matter but the advert has not re-appeared.
I understood that the 360 steering reservoir cap had more than one P/N? - would you happen to know the correct one and where did you purchase it from?
Keep updating your excellent thread - a master class in how to carry out DIY car modification!
ATB
Alan
Bodged said:
...Did you not think of getting the scud suspension rebuilt before fitting or were they low mileage anyway?
Thanks. I managed to pick up some really low mileage parts - they're as good as new. berksboy26 said:
My car,a late 2008 spider,has Daytona seats with Bordeaux stiching, but (unfortunately), lacks the Bordeaux inserts and Cavallino...
Where current prices are concerned I noticed that in the February C&SC a F430 spider was being offered at £145.5K...
I understood that the 360 steering reservoir cap had more than one P/N? - would you happen to know the correct one and where did you purchase it from?...
Hope you're back to full health and ready to enjoy the car again, Alan. Thanks for the comments. I've only driven the new one home from the dealer so far, so I need more seat time to fully explore the F1. I will report my findings at a later date.Where current prices are concerned I noticed that in the February C&SC a F430 spider was being offered at £145.5K...
I understood that the 360 steering reservoir cap had more than one P/N? - would you happen to know the correct one and where did you purchase it from?...
If you want the Bordeaux inserts and stitched Cavallino (I assume yours are embossed) then someone like http://www.kbaggstrimming.co.uk/Gallery_Marque/Gal... stock Ferrari leather and can perform the work for you. I can't imagine it will cost the earth.
Prices for all F430s have firmed up immensely - possibly helped by the base price of the new 488 spider. I think the manual Berlinetta you mention has reappeared for more money! I do wonder where it will end up and wouldn’t be surprised if eventually things start to move the other way.
For the reservoir cap Eurospares hold used stock http://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/ferrari/360-chal... or can order new if you desire. Drop them an email to confirm before ordering but I'm pretty sure it's part number 185353.
Cheers,
Mark
problemchild1976 said:
good to see all the awesome work 
on other makes of vehicles, PHers would be slating the dressing up (e.g. bmw and doing some m-styling)
well done for proving them wrong
keep it up
JJ
on other makes of vehicles, PHers would be slating the dressing up (e.g. bmw and doing some m-styling)
well done for proving them wrong
keep it up
JJ
Cheers. My cars are about improving the performance and driving experience. Funnily enough I have an M3 project thread on here
Hmmm, with the cap does it matter if it doesn't have the vent? Reason I ask is I have an alloy one of mine from my old TVR (looks great) but I don't think it has that!
I cant see what drilling the hole does, because doesn't the black plastic cap fit snug anyhow? or am I missing something!
I cant see what drilling the hole does, because doesn't the black plastic cap fit snug anyhow? or am I missing something!
mwstewart said:
Finally I got some time to fit parts.
16M/Scuderia passenger seat
My stock seats are both heated and electric. Personally, I think electric seats have no place in a supercar due to the considerable added weight, and after a few runs out with the seat heating, it's really not very powerful either. I have the original bill of sale and it was a heady £1136 option! I loose both heating and electric adjustment with the Scud seats, but importantly loose a ton of weight.
A before picture.
The original seats are held in with four M10 cap screws; they are really easy to remove. I used a satin black spray can to paint the exposed areas of red paint, because the 16M/Scuderia seats mount differently and leave some of it exposed. The circular object on the centre console is the speaker for the parking sensors.
Here are the power and heated seat feeds. I wrapped these in non-adhesive PVC tape, covered again by felt tape. I use the initial layer of PVC to prevent adhesive gunking up the connectors thus leaving them in an easily re-commissionable state for the future, if required.
Scuderia vs stock. The weight difference is massive. I'll put each on the scales when swapping the drivers' side.
Fitted. I'm really pleased; they are going to transform the interior.
Carbon exterior door handles
The OEM handles are entirely carbon fibre (some aftermarket versions are laminated stock handles). I'm going to weigh all of these king of parts just out of curiosity, regardless of whether they make a significant saving or not.
Stock handle:
Carbon:
Fitted. I was a little unsure about a mix of exposed carbon next to paintwork, prior to buying this car, but in person I think it looks fantastic.
Carbon fuel flap
Stock flap:
Carbon flap:
More than a few adjustments later...
Alloy PAS reservoir Cap
Here's a before shot of the engine bay.
I realised after a trial fit of the cap that the orientation of the tank in the engine bay is different to the 360, and hence the machined in relief for the vent outlet (blue arrow) is in the wrong position when the cap is mounted with the 'Ferrari' lettering on a horizontal. To get around this I drilled a 3.5mm hole in the base of the plastic cap to allow it to vent downwards (green arrow).
Cap mounted.
16M/Scuderia passenger seat
My stock seats are both heated and electric. Personally, I think electric seats have no place in a supercar due to the considerable added weight, and after a few runs out with the seat heating, it's really not very powerful either. I have the original bill of sale and it was a heady £1136 option! I loose both heating and electric adjustment with the Scud seats, but importantly loose a ton of weight.
A before picture.
The original seats are held in with four M10 cap screws; they are really easy to remove. I used a satin black spray can to paint the exposed areas of red paint, because the 16M/Scuderia seats mount differently and leave some of it exposed. The circular object on the centre console is the speaker for the parking sensors.
Here are the power and heated seat feeds. I wrapped these in non-adhesive PVC tape, covered again by felt tape. I use the initial layer of PVC to prevent adhesive gunking up the connectors thus leaving them in an easily re-commissionable state for the future, if required.
Scuderia vs stock. The weight difference is massive. I'll put each on the scales when swapping the drivers' side.
Fitted. I'm really pleased; they are going to transform the interior.
Carbon exterior door handles
The OEM handles are entirely carbon fibre (some aftermarket versions are laminated stock handles). I'm going to weigh all of these king of parts just out of curiosity, regardless of whether they make a significant saving or not.
Stock handle:
Carbon:
Fitted. I was a little unsure about a mix of exposed carbon next to paintwork, prior to buying this car, but in person I think it looks fantastic.
Carbon fuel flap
Stock flap:
Carbon flap:
More than a few adjustments later...
Alloy PAS reservoir Cap
Here's a before shot of the engine bay.
I realised after a trial fit of the cap that the orientation of the tank in the engine bay is different to the 360, and hence the machined in relief for the vent outlet (blue arrow) is in the wrong position when the cap is mounted with the 'Ferrari' lettering on a horizontal. To get around this I drilled a 3.5mm hole in the base of the plastic cap to allow it to vent downwards (green arrow).
Cap mounted.
gcpeters said:
Hmmm, with the cap does it matter if it doesn't have the vent? Reason I ask is I have an alloy one of mine from my old TVR (looks great) but I don't think it has that!
I cant see what drilling the hole does, because doesn't the black plastic cap fit snug anyhow? or am I missing something!
The central tube which forms the dip stick is also a vent tube that exits from the side of the cap via a moulded section of tube in the lid; the purple arrow shows this. The yellow circle indicates the perimeter circumference of the dealing lip. The hole I drilled intersects the moulded-in vent tube and falls outside of the sealing surface.I cant see what drilling the hole does, because doesn't the black plastic cap fit snug anyhow? or am I missing something!
Most PAS systems are sealed but obviously anything with this ZF reservoir isn't. My E46 M3 uses the same reservoir & cap, and so do most Vauxhalls I've seen.
16M/Scuderia front bumper
The 16M/Scuderia has a revised aerodynamic package which includes a redesigned front bumper featuring a wider central air damn to channel air under the car, and a large lateral extension below each side duct to generate greater downforce over the front axle. I have noticed in my car that the front end can feel light at high speed so it'll be interesting to compare the drive.
The 16M/Scuderia bumper is also lighter than the F430 version, as are the front undertray and radiator cooling ducts which were redesigned to suit. I will comapre weights in due course.
I looked at no less than four OEM Ferrari bumpers before settling on this one (OEM Ferrari). For obvious reasons it is easier to find a rear bumper rear than a front, but in addition, most of the bumpers that are available have been damaged/repaired. I found a really nice, original bumper in Poland that is already Rosso Corsa, but I will likely have it stripped off and repainted. It should be with me next week.
The 16M/Scuderia has a revised aerodynamic package which includes a redesigned front bumper featuring a wider central air damn to channel air under the car, and a large lateral extension below each side duct to generate greater downforce over the front axle. I have noticed in my car that the front end can feel light at high speed so it'll be interesting to compare the drive.
The 16M/Scuderia bumper is also lighter than the F430 version, as are the front undertray and radiator cooling ducts which were redesigned to suit. I will comapre weights in due course.
I looked at no less than four OEM Ferrari bumpers before settling on this one (OEM Ferrari). For obvious reasons it is easier to find a rear bumper rear than a front, but in addition, most of the bumpers that are available have been damaged/repaired. I found a really nice, original bumper in Poland that is already Rosso Corsa, but I will likely have it stripped off and repainted. It should be with me next week.
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 15th March 12:58
ah ha!
thanks! ill check my tonight to see whether it has this option, I wonder what the worst case scenario is it cant vent....?
side note - I also have an E46 M3 - currently going to be my track toy!
Most PAS systems are sealed but obviously anything with this ZF reservoir isn't. My E46 M3 uses the same reservoir & cap, and so do most Vauxhalls I've seen.
thanks! ill check my tonight to see whether it has this option, I wonder what the worst case scenario is it cant vent....?
side note - I also have an E46 M3 - currently going to be my track toy!
mwstewart said:
gcpeters said:
Hmmm, with the cap does it matter if it doesn't have the vent? Reason I ask is I have an alloy one of mine from my old TVR (looks great) but I don't think it has that!
I cant see what drilling the hole does, because doesn't the black plastic cap fit snug anyhow? or am I missing something!
The central tube which forms the dip stick is also a vent tube that exits from the side of the cap via a moulded section of tube in the lid; the purple arrow shows this. The yellow circle indicates the perimeter circumference of the dealing lip. The hole I drilled intersects the moulded-in vent tube and falls outside of the sealing surface.I cant see what drilling the hole does, because doesn't the black plastic cap fit snug anyhow? or am I missing something!
Most PAS systems are sealed but obviously anything with this ZF reservoir isn't. My E46 M3 uses the same reservoir & cap, and so do most Vauxhalls I've seen.
AB said:
Amazing!
Cheers.Podie said:
Appreciate that the front and rear bumpers are different - but are there any changes to the floor?
No. The chassis is the same; the central floor is part of the chassis itself and constitutes approximately half the total floorpan area. It is flat aluminium sheet covered with underseal:
The front and rear undertrays constitute the remaining 50% of floor area and these are model specific. The 16M/Scuderia versions are made of a thin, light weight composite. F430 versions shown below:
Also, the rear diffuser is F430 or 16M/Scuderia specific with an optional carbon version for each type. I will cover these details when I'm at the bumper fitting stage.
gcpeters said:
ah ha!
thanks! ill check my tonight to see whether it has this option, I wonder what the worst case scenario is it cant vent....?
side note - I also have an E46 M3 - currently going to be my track toy!
I don't think any PAS system actually requires a vent - I suspect it's more protection against over-filling.thanks! ill check my tonight to see whether it has this option, I wonder what the worst case scenario is it cant vent....?
side note - I also have an E46 M3 - currently going to be my track toy!
Plenty of weight to take out of the E46
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 15th March 12:56
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