Knackered old Porsche with loads of natural light - Boxster!
Discussion
Back to the Boxster/Booster 
Front tombstone mount swapped today, it's a pain of a job as I designed it to go on/off with the engine out but I suppose this has proven that if you absolutely don't want to drop the motor to do a cambelt then it's possible.
The new version is much more like it, improves clearance around the top mounting bolts when in the chassis, skinnies a bit of weight out (although the tombstone design is about putting some mass back into this area of the car the original was a little too much) and provides a bit of support for one of the coolant lines.
One thing I don't think I've spoken about before is the flipped OEM mount, the standard mount is in two pieces and when first drawing this up the original orientation of the bridge piece which bolts to the chassis meant that everything was a bit tight around the top mounting bolts area and the mount would need to be wider nearer the top. Flipping the bridge piece over on a 180'd engine side piece allows the engine side of the mount to sit further down creating the tombstone arrangement with a more wasted shape that allows room for the coolant hoses and much more clearance around the engine front. The bridge piece has pads either side so bolts up just fine either way up. I did some basic FEA on this to see what the impact was on the bridge piece as there's obviously some triangulation and webs going on there but it appears to be about as strong in either direction which makes sense as the static loading of the engine is pretty small compared to that when yomping a hump back bridge or doing burnouts and the actual material thickness carrying the load doesn't change regardles of orientation. In short, should be mint
Oh and if you're wondering about the engine side part of the mout spanning a gap, it's like that on the M96 where it spans four bosses and it meant I could do the pocket on that side which reduced the machining ops down to 1 for that part.
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Nice view of how much room there is around the FEAD as allowing for an Aux belt change or FEAD component change without having to remove the mount or drop the engine was a pretty key thing for me. I don't mind dropping the motor to do a cambelt as at three years / 36K miles a load of other stuff is due a once over then too but I was not following the Bentley approach of a duff alternator meaning an engine out event!
Looks the part underneath too! The new billet anti-rotation mount / boost pipe carrier fits a treat and really does look the part I think! Nothing like a part that does more than one thing
So tomorrow is a tidy up and make good day which is mostly about getting a load of anti-chafe onto things that look like they might run and generally emptying a bag of cable ties around the place. I've also got to fit the gear cables and mid-pipe back on along with a few other bits. Depending how that goes I might even have time to wire power and CAN for the display too!
Front tombstone mount swapped today, it's a pain of a job as I designed it to go on/off with the engine out but I suppose this has proven that if you absolutely don't want to drop the motor to do a cambelt then it's possible.
The new version is much more like it, improves clearance around the top mounting bolts when in the chassis, skinnies a bit of weight out (although the tombstone design is about putting some mass back into this area of the car the original was a little too much) and provides a bit of support for one of the coolant lines.
One thing I don't think I've spoken about before is the flipped OEM mount, the standard mount is in two pieces and when first drawing this up the original orientation of the bridge piece which bolts to the chassis meant that everything was a bit tight around the top mounting bolts area and the mount would need to be wider nearer the top. Flipping the bridge piece over on a 180'd engine side piece allows the engine side of the mount to sit further down creating the tombstone arrangement with a more wasted shape that allows room for the coolant hoses and much more clearance around the engine front. The bridge piece has pads either side so bolts up just fine either way up. I did some basic FEA on this to see what the impact was on the bridge piece as there's obviously some triangulation and webs going on there but it appears to be about as strong in either direction which makes sense as the static loading of the engine is pretty small compared to that when yomping a hump back bridge or doing burnouts and the actual material thickness carrying the load doesn't change regardles of orientation. In short, should be mint
Oh and if you're wondering about the engine side part of the mout spanning a gap, it's like that on the M96 where it spans four bosses and it meant I could do the pocket on that side which reduced the machining ops down to 1 for that part.
[/URL]Nice view of how much room there is around the FEAD as allowing for an Aux belt change or FEAD component change without having to remove the mount or drop the engine was a pretty key thing for me. I don't mind dropping the motor to do a cambelt as at three years / 36K miles a load of other stuff is due a once over then too but I was not following the Bentley approach of a duff alternator meaning an engine out event!
Looks the part underneath too! The new billet anti-rotation mount / boost pipe carrier fits a treat and really does look the part I think! Nothing like a part that does more than one thing
So tomorrow is a tidy up and make good day which is mostly about getting a load of anti-chafe onto things that look like they might run and generally emptying a bag of cable ties around the place. I've also got to fit the gear cables and mid-pipe back on along with a few other bits. Depending how that goes I might even have time to wire power and CAN for the display too!
Edited by poppopbangbang on Wednesday 20th March 22:08
poppopbangbang said:
gofasterrosssco said:
Cayman 987 (S with blown engine) and Audi S6/8 5.2 TFSI V10
It would look much more like a Ruf CTR3 (which is no bad thing) once you'd made room for that though, the rear bulkhead and boot floor would definitely need to move out the way at which point you might as well space frame the rear end and just run all the Audi R8 back end including the suspension, DSG box etc......Various other engines I've seen (not first hand) installed are the belt-driven Audi V8 of similar vintage as your engine, which come in at ~520mm and of course versions of the M96/97 which come in at a similar length. Not sure the equivalent dimension of your 1.8T, but you've got 3" clearance odd?
Of course total engine length is just one factor, but the engine space would seem to accommodate the engine in terms of width and (just, with some adjustment) height. I think the front bulkhead panel may need modifying but not the main crossmember, or perhaps the rear panel if the drivetrain was shifted rearwards maybe ~1".
Perhaps all wishful thinking and tinternet research but it appeared to the packageable without resorting to major chassis change
The V10 makes no sense. When you say the V8 fits, they don't really fit tidy and are a bit of a hack job. The Boxster/Cayman doesn't have any cabin space to sacrifice by moving the bulkhead forward. They are pretty cramped as it is.
There's more to fitting an engine that just getting it in the hole. You need to have reasonable access around it for basic maintenance. It's going to get old quickly if you need to drop the whole lot out to replace an alternator or something as you can't get access to the drive belt.
Like it's already been said, you'd want the R8 gearbox, they are 7k. Are you happy with the 435bhp S8 engine when the R8 version makes 600+hp?
There's an R8 V10 for just over 40k on ebay. It's a non starter in my opinion.
I really like the W8 engine they put in the Passat, the packaging is brilliant and they sound awesome. The problem is they are 260bhp N/A and the rods on them are tiny so not sure they'd take much power if you went forced induction. They are also fragile with poor availability of spare parts. I nearly bought a donor W8 Passat for £2000 a few years back, missed it and the prices seemed to double over night, that put the end to idea (along with it being stupid).
There's more to fitting an engine that just getting it in the hole. You need to have reasonable access around it for basic maintenance. It's going to get old quickly if you need to drop the whole lot out to replace an alternator or something as you can't get access to the drive belt.
Like it's already been said, you'd want the R8 gearbox, they are 7k. Are you happy with the 435bhp S8 engine when the R8 version makes 600+hp?
There's an R8 V10 for just over 40k on ebay. It's a non starter in my opinion.
I really like the W8 engine they put in the Passat, the packaging is brilliant and they sound awesome. The problem is they are 260bhp N/A and the rods on them are tiny so not sure they'd take much power if you went forced induction. They are also fragile with poor availability of spare parts. I nearly bought a donor W8 Passat for £2000 a few years back, missed it and the prices seemed to double over night, that put the end to idea (along with it being stupid).
Well not a lot to show for a days work:
But very happy all the chassis bolt ons walked back on, the motor looks pretty good sat amongst them too - once it's weathered in a touch it'll look like it was always meant to be there It does show just how stock it all is from the gearbox back and aside from a return needing relieving on the lower plate to clear that now larger downpipe it all went back on as it came off.
I've tidied, secured and added some anti-chafe where required on everything that needs doing from underneath, topside can wait until it's back on the deck.
So with a following wind and if nothing gets in the way the chargecooler will get plumbed up this week, I'll quickly mod the engine cover and we can go driving! I want to get it run in as quickly as possible and get the calibration bit out the way so it can go over to CoG for some suitable suspension.
But very happy all the chassis bolt ons walked back on, the motor looks pretty good sat amongst them too - once it's weathered in a touch it'll look like it was always meant to be there
It does show just how stock it all is from the gearbox back and aside from a return needing relieving on the lower plate to clear that now larger downpipe it all went back on as it came off. I've tidied, secured and added some anti-chafe where required on everything that needs doing from underneath, topside can wait until it's back on the deck.
So with a following wind and if nothing gets in the way the chargecooler will get plumbed up this week, I'll quickly mod the engine cover and we can go driving! I want to get it run in as quickly as possible and get the calibration bit out the way so it can go over to CoG for some suitable suspension.
Escy said:
The V10 makes no sense. When you say the V8 fits, they don't really fit tidy and are a bit of a hack job. The Boxster/Cayman doesn't have any cabin space to sacrifice by moving the bulkhead forward. They are pretty cramped as it is.
There's more to fitting an engine that just getting it in the hole. You need to have reasonable access around it for basic maintenance. It's going to get old quickly if you need to drop the whole lot out to replace an alternator or something as you can't get access to the drive belt.
Like it's already been said, you'd want the R8 gearbox, they are 7k. Are you happy with the 435bhp S8 engine when the R8 version makes 600+hp?
There's an R8 V10 for just over 40k on ebay. It's a non starter in my opinion.
I really like the W8 engine they put in the Passat, the packaging is brilliant and they sound awesome. The problem is they are 260bhp N/A and the rods on them are tiny so not sure they'd take much power if you went forced induction. They are also fragile with poor availability of spare parts. I nearly bought a donor W8 Passat for £2000 a few years back, missed it and the prices seemed to double over night, that put the end to idea (along with it being stupid).
You say it makes no sense, but then it does from those who like big naturally aspirated engines (and sound). There arent really any other good, cost-effective (relative term) mid-engined platforms where its remotely feasible to implement a NA V10, hence my left-field suggestion. A 450-460bhp NA engine would be plenty for me!There's more to fitting an engine that just getting it in the hole. You need to have reasonable access around it for basic maintenance. It's going to get old quickly if you need to drop the whole lot out to replace an alternator or something as you can't get access to the drive belt.
Like it's already been said, you'd want the R8 gearbox, they are 7k. Are you happy with the 435bhp S8 engine when the R8 version makes 600+hp?
There's an R8 V10 for just over 40k on ebay. It's a non starter in my opinion.
I really like the W8 engine they put in the Passat, the packaging is brilliant and they sound awesome. The problem is they are 260bhp N/A and the rods on them are tiny so not sure they'd take much power if you went forced induction. They are also fragile with poor availability of spare parts. I nearly bought a donor W8 Passat for £2000 a few years back, missed it and the prices seemed to double over night, that put the end to idea (along with it being stupid).
I bow to your knowledge on engine bay space as you're clearly well versed with this platform, and I'm not claiming its in any way a simple task, but its not infeasable especially given the depth of knowledge and engineering shown by PPBB on this and other threads
And totally agree there's may other aspects such as maintenance, inspection, cooling, engine control etc. etc. Virtually all major drivetrain changes are a trade-off The R8 engines are a non-starter agreed - they are actually quite different, not least because they have a drive / prop shaft running through the sump and are designed exclusively to mate to the R8 gearbox. And I wouldnt be mucking about with old 987's if I had the pockets for a £40k used engine
eltax91 said:
I alreadly like the seller! Ebay Seller said:
Located in Birmingham b44 (not the side of Birmingham where every car is a cat s, has a pop and bang map and been launched to within an inch of its life)
Makes out the car is from the good side of Birmingham but it's the biggest turd going.
Buying a cheap Boxster like that for an engine conversion is a false economy. You'd need to put way more money into it than it's worth to make it nice. Buy a decent one and you'll be able to sell the engine on to recoup a large chunk of the outlay.
Buying a cheap Boxster like that for an engine conversion is a false economy. You'd need to put way more money into it than it's worth to make it nice. Buy a decent one and you'll be able to sell the engine on to recoup a large chunk of the outlay.
Escy said:
Makes out the car is from the good side of Birmingham but it's the biggest turd going.
Buying a cheap Boxster like that for an engine conversion is a false economy. You'd need to put way more money into it than it's worth to make it nice. Buy a decent one and you'll be able to sell the engine on to recoup a large chunk of the outlay.
You come in here with your logic and common sense…. Ruining all our fun. Buying a cheap Boxster like that for an engine conversion is a false economy. You'd need to put way more money into it than it's worth to make it nice. Buy a decent one and you'll be able to sell the engine on to recoup a large chunk of the outlay.
Few more bits done, although I've been exceptionaly lazy with it this week and let many things get in the way!
Display is in and wired:
I missed that ME7.5 isn't internally terminated so I need to smoke a 120ohm into the ECU end of the loom before I'll get data but on the display but it all works and the CAN measures out at the right voltages so I know it'll work.
Made a start on the charge cooler plumbing too, mainly by getting all the big bits mounted:
Modified aircon rad worked out well in terms of fit, I chopped the original hard lines off it and welded some 19mm beaded hose push ons to it. I'm really interested to see how well the core works in this application. Charge cooler rads can have quite unique requirements as the delta to atmosphere is usually pretty small and the system doesn't really run at any sort of pressure so a radiator with a lower flow rate but decent thermal mass which essentially means more opportunity for heat exchange is generally preferable to a radiator designed for engine cooling where the delta will be much higher along with the flow rate requirement.
Bosch EWP mounts nicely with a hose clip to one of the mounts on the front tub that's originally made for mounting a third radiator. These are generally pretty quite but if it ends up ringing the front tub in an unpleasant way then I'll make an AV mount for it.
Little header tank tucks up in the dead space where the CD changer once was behind the ABS. This will mount to the plastic ABS valveblock cover and should tuck away nicely. This is plumbed purely as expansion fill point / bit more thermal mass in the system so I only need to get a single hose out the frunk which t's into the return side of the system.
19mm hose is perfect to exit through an original hole in the front tub that is usually filled with a grommit.
System capacity isn't bad as a starter for ten, I measured the radiator at 478ml, the charge cooler is 550ml, the header tank 200ml to the fill line, the pump has about 120ml in it and 10.2M of 19mm ID holds 2891ml. So all up we've got about 4.2L in the system, that should do the trick if the rad is pretty efficient therefore can keep the delta between the CC core temp and compressor outlet air pretty wide.... but we'll find that out in due course!
Display is in and wired:
I missed that ME7.5 isn't internally terminated so I need to smoke a 120ohm into the ECU end of the loom before I'll get data but on the display but it all works and the CAN measures out at the right voltages so I know it'll work.
Made a start on the charge cooler plumbing too, mainly by getting all the big bits mounted:
Modified aircon rad worked out well in terms of fit, I chopped the original hard lines off it and welded some 19mm beaded hose push ons to it. I'm really interested to see how well the core works in this application. Charge cooler rads can have quite unique requirements as the delta to atmosphere is usually pretty small and the system doesn't really run at any sort of pressure so a radiator with a lower flow rate but decent thermal mass which essentially means more opportunity for heat exchange is generally preferable to a radiator designed for engine cooling where the delta will be much higher along with the flow rate requirement.
Bosch EWP mounts nicely with a hose clip to one of the mounts on the front tub that's originally made for mounting a third radiator. These are generally pretty quite but if it ends up ringing the front tub in an unpleasant way then I'll make an AV mount for it.
Little header tank tucks up in the dead space where the CD changer once was behind the ABS. This will mount to the plastic ABS valveblock cover and should tuck away nicely. This is plumbed purely as expansion fill point / bit more thermal mass in the system so I only need to get a single hose out the frunk which t's into the return side of the system.
19mm hose is perfect to exit through an original hole in the front tub that is usually filled with a grommit.
System capacity isn't bad as a starter for ten, I measured the radiator at 478ml, the charge cooler is 550ml, the header tank 200ml to the fill line, the pump has about 120ml in it and 10.2M of 19mm ID holds 2891ml. So all up we've got about 4.2L in the system, that should do the trick if the rad is pretty efficient therefore can keep the delta between the CC core temp and compressor outlet air pretty wide.... but we'll find that out in due course!
On the deck
Even more than that I've driven it! Drives just like a road car, feels exactly like a Boxster, NVH is good, drive by noise no more than a standard car, CAT lights off as it should...... oh and it makes mad Turbo noises from behind your right shoulder Very pleased with how the motor installs and with it on the deck you can really see how at home it looks, bags of room around things for service and general maintenance and you'd struggle to get an I4 lower without a trick sump setup and some much more radical changes to cross member and general floor components.
I've got some tidying up bits to do now, including engine cover and some final dash config etc. all of which are much easier with it on the floor so if I have chance this weekend it'll be a built car awaiting dyno.
I'll do a bit of a project write up shortly as a TL;DR for this thread and also to explain a little more about why some things on it are as they are. As a bit of a spoiler I did achieve one of the key goals for this project which is this entire conversion has been done without drilling a single hole or welding a single bracket to the original monocoque of the car and absolutely no wires in the chassis harness have been cut or modified. Everything goes in on existing mounts, points bosses etc. I've genuinely seen more modification to a monocoque from having a tracker fitted!
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