Titivating my Mercedes 124
Discussion
Tony, that is useful to know, I will check it out.
I visited the works yesterday and there is some progress. In the first two pics you can see the bottom of the car stripped of major componentry. All of the suspension pipes will be renewed and I am going to do the spheres while we are at it. You can see small-ish holes behind the exhaust back box, I suspect these were soaking up water.
The main holes under the front seats and rear footwells have been welded up. Plates have been welded in using stick welding. Is this appropriate? I thought the best thing would be to seam weld without any overlap?
There are various other repairs. There were some little holes at the foot of the chassis legs. One down, one to go:
The jacking points are more or less crusty. The first is the worst. I ordered repair panels but instead we have bought new sills (£50 each, delivered) from which the necessary sections will be cut and then welded in:
Not much else to say, really, save that I miss the car terribly. I don't know whether I have reported this already but effectively the entire rear axle will be renewed as well. Obviously there is the sub-frame and there are the links but there is also a new roll bar, drop links, mounting bushes; then new rear wheel bearings and brake backing plates; plus new hand brake bits; the discs and pads and calipers are almost brand new anyway. The exhausts go pretty crusty very quickly but they are not available presently and there is nothing really wrong with the one on the car.
I visited the works yesterday and there is some progress. In the first two pics you can see the bottom of the car stripped of major componentry. All of the suspension pipes will be renewed and I am going to do the spheres while we are at it. You can see small-ish holes behind the exhaust back box, I suspect these were soaking up water.
The main holes under the front seats and rear footwells have been welded up. Plates have been welded in using stick welding. Is this appropriate? I thought the best thing would be to seam weld without any overlap?
There are various other repairs. There were some little holes at the foot of the chassis legs. One down, one to go:
The jacking points are more or less crusty. The first is the worst. I ordered repair panels but instead we have bought new sills (£50 each, delivered) from which the necessary sections will be cut and then welded in:
Not much else to say, really, save that I miss the car terribly. I don't know whether I have reported this already but effectively the entire rear axle will be renewed as well. Obviously there is the sub-frame and there are the links but there is also a new roll bar, drop links, mounting bushes; then new rear wheel bearings and brake backing plates; plus new hand brake bits; the discs and pads and calipers are almost brand new anyway. The exhausts go pretty crusty very quickly but they are not available presently and there is nothing really wrong with the one on the car.
I'm not thrilled with the welding but he assured me stitch welding was stronger than spot welding. Which it is. But I would prefer it to be done more like TonyBMW does his E12 in this frankly amazing job: https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/88328/1981-bm... although I recognise this is the underside of the car and it is non-structural.
As for diff ratios: check out the parts catalogue at www.mercedes.7zap.com if you pick the model and head to rear axle, you will find it. For a 300 E-24 with manual transmission or with 4speed auto, the diff ratio is 1:3.27; on the 5speed auto it is 1:3.69. On the 320 E or E320 with 4speed auto or manual transmission, the diff ratio is 1:3.06; with 5speed auto it is 1:3.69, same as on the -24.
As for diff ratios: check out the parts catalogue at www.mercedes.7zap.com if you pick the model and head to rear axle, you will find it. For a 300 E-24 with manual transmission or with 4speed auto, the diff ratio is 1:3.27; on the 5speed auto it is 1:3.69. On the 320 E or E320 with 4speed auto or manual transmission, the diff ratio is 1:3.06; with 5speed auto it is 1:3.69, same as on the -24.
Just looking at some of the pictures from the Cannes trip back in 2019, it did look mint then, didn't it? (Pic below of an unblemished front wing on the Col de Turini.)
I don't think the front wings were as well prepared as they could have been back in 2014. Once rust appeared, it got ahold very quickly. In two years they have gone from flawless to pretty ropey. As for the underside, who knows? It has never previously had any welding underneath that I can think of. I feel a bit gloomy about the work done this week: I will have to have a difficult conversation with the welding man.
I don't think the front wings were as well prepared as they could have been back in 2014. Once rust appeared, it got ahold very quickly. In two years they have gone from flawless to pretty ropey. As for the underside, who knows? It has never previously had any welding underneath that I can think of. I feel a bit gloomy about the work done this week: I will have to have a difficult conversation with the welding man.
mwstewart said:
The repairs are OK, as is the welding. The time and effort required to make a repair indistinguishable from the original panel is an order of magnitude higher than a simpler, but sturdy patch. I wouldn't be unhappy with the work.
Longevity of the repairs is ultimately determined by the final surface treatment. Ask the garage to use epoxy primer over the bare metal; I used to swear by etch primer as a first base, but epoxy really is incredible stuff. Seam sealer can go over the top to seal the joints.
Most important is a liberal coating of wax on both sides of the repairs and, ideally, the rest of the underside including subframes and brake pipes. It doesn't look pretty but it works.
Thank you so much for this reassuring contribution. Knowing what you know about these things, if you think it's ok then it's ok for me. I went to see the chap who is doing it today and I am pretty confident in him. The surface treatment will be rust converter, zinc primer, seam sealer, epoxy mastic, stone chip; there will be cavity wax in the cavities. All Bilt Hamber apart from the stone chip which is 3M.Longevity of the repairs is ultimately determined by the final surface treatment. Ask the garage to use epoxy primer over the bare metal; I used to swear by etch primer as a first base, but epoxy really is incredible stuff. Seam sealer can go over the top to seal the joints.
Most important is a liberal coating of wax on both sides of the repairs and, ideally, the rest of the underside including subframes and brake pipes. It doesn't look pretty but it works.
w124tony said:
Really, i dont think its worth the effort too swap the diff ratios, you will have slightly lower cruising rpm at the cost of acceleration and drivability. I think fitting a 722.6 with the ofgear controller is the way to go as that will give you a 5th overdrive gear and lockup. Slightly bigger job but you wont have to sacrifice acceleration.
My diff is worn out so something needs to be done. And besides, the subframe is out and a new subframe is going in, so fitting a used but unworn diff from a saloon adds very little in the scheme of things. I have new mounting bushes and all that stuff. The chap who is doing the job is almost finished fitting an OM606 turbo to his Sprinter and recently put a M112k into a 190 so if anyone could do a transmission swap, he could. I am attracted to the idea of an OM606 turbo with a 722.6 but when the engine and transmission are original and hardly touched, it seems a shame to take them out.I picked up a load of suspension pipes from MB Newcastle today, including two pipes which go from the valve above the rear axle to and from the tank and pump at the front of the engine bay. MB were worried about how to transport them as they came in 5m long cardboard tubes from Germany and they couldn't get them in their van. The totally absurd thing is that they cost £11.20 each. MB parts prices are bizarre.
KrisP said:
what are you doing about the speedo in relation to changing the diff ratio - is it minimal that you are leaving it, or are you changing it?
My question earlier about the diff ratios for the e320 manual box is because I am going to put the engine and box into a 190, but I need a longer diff in it that the current one fitted as per the factory - I've done my research in terms of my diff options, but the speedo accuracy is yet to be solved
I think JDO Instruments can recalibrate them. They did a great job refurbishing my 190’s speedo for very little dosh.My question earlier about the diff ratios for the e320 manual box is because I am going to put the engine and box into a 190, but I need a longer diff in it that the current one fitted as per the factory - I've done my research in terms of my diff options, but the speedo accuracy is yet to be solved
If you can hack your way through the German, this is pretty inspirational.
http://wagen124.com/restauration-hinterachse-280te...
http://wagen124.com/restauration-hinterachse-280te...
Howitzer said:
r129sl said:
The idiots at MB Milton Keynes and Peterborough bent my pipes in half. Took a fair bit of work and a pipe straightener to get them back like new and luckily they were being coated afterwards anyway. Dave!
I too am impressed by the new one, Jack.
I don't know whether it is madness keeping mine going. The repairs to the underside will cost at least £5k and then it needs some titivating on top. It should be good for a long while after that, if the hype about Bilt Hamber products is halfway true. A big part of the problem is my location right on the north sea coast. A bigger part of the problem is the unavailability of body repair parts from Mercedes or even on the after market. No floor pan sections are available anymore, and certainly none of the structural elements.
I don't know whether it is madness keeping mine going. The repairs to the underside will cost at least £5k and then it needs some titivating on top. It should be good for a long while after that, if the hype about Bilt Hamber products is halfway true. A big part of the problem is my location right on the north sea coast. A bigger part of the problem is the unavailability of body repair parts from Mercedes or even on the after market. No floor pan sections are available anymore, and certainly none of the structural elements.
There is no car I would rather drive. I wish they'd made the E400 in rhd: that would be my perfect car.
In no particular order, some photos from the underside of mine. All of my repairs are non-structural; I am happy enough with the welding. I would love to learn to do welding and bodywork but I just don't have time. I haven't been to see the car for a couple of weeks. I will be visiting on Saturday and should have more time to inspect it.
In no particular order, some photos from the underside of mine. All of my repairs are non-structural; I am happy enough with the welding. I would love to learn to do welding and bodywork but I just don't have time. I haven't been to see the car for a couple of weeks. I will be visiting on Saturday and should have more time to inspect it.
Olds: both a code reader and a lift would enhance my life. Every time I have a little spare money I always promise myself a lift but then something else comes along, usually something which doesn't enhance my Iife any at all.
My garage is quite small so I have settled on one of those Automotech single post lifts: https://www.automotechservices.co.uk/products/7521...
My garage is quite small so I have settled on one of those Automotech single post lifts: https://www.automotechservices.co.uk/products/7521...
T.K said:
Excellent car, excellent thread- thanks for sharing all this - always enjoy the updates.
My 300k mile S124 E300 needs some TLC. OP, would you mind PM'ing me details of the bodyshop you used to do the first respray please? I think advantageous to use someone who knows the cars... and trouble spots.
Thanks in advance, Tom
Tom, he has stopped doing them unfortunately. It was Paul King at KTD in Dunston, Gateshead. By all means give him a ring but last time I asked him he was no longer interested, more profitable fish to fry fitting out vans and campers I understand, bit disappointing really.My 300k mile S124 E300 needs some TLC. OP, would you mind PM'ing me details of the bodyshop you used to do the first respray please? I think advantageous to use someone who knows the cars... and trouble spots.
Thanks in advance, Tom
I had a look at the car this morning. As well as the welding, it has had Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 on any rust, two coats of Electrox zinc primer all over the bottom and wrapping up the sills and behind the bumper, seam sealer, three coats of epoxy mastic and now 3M stone chip followed by body-colour paint. The axle is being re-assembled. Fingers crossed it will be ready in two or three weeks, thoroughly rust-proofed underneath. Just the topside to do now.
^^^Scott Automotive in Hexham. https://scottauto.co.uk
^^^That looks super and terrifying all at once.
I had a new wiring harness quite some time back, around 2012. I The engine had the cylinder head off and the injectors refurbished in 2015 and at some point (maybe 2014) it had a new timing chain, but is otherwise in fine fettle. I quite like that it is unrebuilt at 400,000miles-plus.
I had a new wiring harness quite some time back, around 2012. I The engine had the cylinder head off and the injectors refurbished in 2015 and at some point (maybe 2014) it had a new timing chain, but is otherwise in fine fettle. I quite like that it is unrebuilt at 400,000miles-plus.
jke11y said:
I am also sure that a lot in the £8-15k bracket would be the same.
I agree. I think with the 124 the difference between top-of-the-market and middle-market cars lies more in the quality of the advertising and photography than the quality of the product. Only a handful of cars owned by nutty enthusiasts have had the benefit of proper maintenance. Almost all need all new suspension and other long-term consumables; almost all will be nursing corrosion underneath. With a 124 I would generally buy at the cheaper end knowing that I would have to do all the work anyway.I don't know whether Japanese imports provide an exception to this principle.
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