Knackered old Porsche with loads of natural light - Boxster!
Discussion
20 miles covered this evening, obviously running in so limited to 4K RPM and half throttle/half a bar of boost as just looking to get the rings bedded and put enough load of things for stuff to move around and witness where its not happy.
No leaks but I do have an issue with it running a touch on the hot side at mid 90's which stacks up with neither rad being particularily warm, so it's either not bled properly or I've cocked up the bleeds/returns from the cylinder head (which is entirely possible as I worked from pictures on the internet for that one
) either way its a simple fix and if that's the biggest problem I have with this entire project then I'm considering it a total win 
There is coolant circulating as the heater gets toasty warm (and is currently acting somewhat as the engine rad) but the heater circuit on the 986 is totally seperate to the main engine cooling loop so at least that narrows down the problem somewhat.
More interestingly (maybe) is there's a black hard top on e-bay at the moment.... a friend of mine has been suggesting for some time now that it would be by far the best to bin the soft top and associated mechanism off and fit a hard top but I'm not convinced it would save any acutal mass and I always think the rear quarter section of the hard top looks a bit clunky. It would definitely look a bit racier though, any thoughts?
No leaks but I do have an issue with it running a touch on the hot side at mid 90's which stacks up with neither rad being particularily warm, so it's either not bled properly or I've cocked up the bleeds/returns from the cylinder head (which is entirely possible as I worked from pictures on the internet for that one
) either way its a simple fix and if that's the biggest problem I have with this entire project then I'm considering it a total win There is coolant circulating as the heater gets toasty warm (and is currently acting somewhat as the engine rad) but the heater circuit on the 986 is totally seperate to the main engine cooling loop so at least that narrows down the problem somewhat.More interestingly (maybe) is there's a black hard top on e-bay at the moment.... a friend of mine has been suggesting for some time now that it would be by far the best to bin the soft top and associated mechanism off and fit a hard top but I'm not convinced it would save any acutal mass and I always think the rear quarter section of the hard top looks a bit clunky. It would definitely look a bit racier though, any thoughts?
Other than as a reader really, really enjoying this thread, I have no skin in the game: however I am very excited it runs and is on the road!
A lot of hard tops don't look very good and are quite heavy. I assume you know the difference to the gramme. How noisy are they compared to life under fabric? I have only driven one convertible - a tired BMW Mini hire car - and the wind was very, very noisy compared to the hatch.
A lot of hard tops don't look very good and are quite heavy. I assume you know the difference to the gramme. How noisy are they compared to life under fabric? I have only driven one convertible - a tired BMW Mini hire car - and the wind was very, very noisy compared to the hatch.
eltax91 said:
Noooo! With the roof down you’ll hear the turbo whoosh all the more. 
You'll have to pop over and have a look, because of where the air filter is the turbo whoosh is rediculously loud and OTT..... which is exactly what I wanted It's half old Noble M12 (where the filters were on the bulkhead) and half Group B car. It's so loud that it doesn't matter if it has a roof or not! Marquezs Stabilisers said:
Other than as a reader really, really enjoying this thread, I have no skin in the game: however I am very excited it runs and is on the road!
A lot of hard tops don't look very good and are quite heavy. I assume you know the difference to the gramme. How noisy are they compared to life under fabric? I have only driven one convertible - a tired BMW Mini hire car - and the wind was very, very noisy compared to the hatch.
Glad you're enjoying the thread, it's a pleasure to share a build with like minded individuals A lot of hard tops don't look very good and are quite heavy. I assume you know the difference to the gramme. How noisy are they compared to life under fabric? I have only driven one convertible - a tired BMW Mini hire car - and the wind was very, very noisy compared to the hatch.
I don't know the weight difference off my head but I can find out, I've always been very impressed with how well the Boxster roof works in terms of NVH and general wind noise etc. They're very good for a soft top, there is obviously more noise than a solid roof but not as much as one would think..... especially compared to a 911 of the same generation which have rear wheel arches which act as speaker boxes in terms of tyre noise.
I think if I want a hard top then a Cayman makes more sense
Or maybe if the Boxster ever became a track day car.poppopbangbang said:
eltax91 said:
Noooo! With the roof down you’ll hear the turbo whoosh all the more.
You'll have to pop over and have a look, because of where the air filter is the turbo whoosh is rediculously loud and OTT..... which is exactly what I wanted It's half old Noble M12 (where the filters were on the bulkhead) and half Group B car. It's so loud that it doesn't matter if it has a roof or not! I've been tempted with a hard top on my 987, one came up in the right colour and locally. I prefer the roof line with the hard top to a Cayman sloping roof. I think weight wise you'd be at the same sort of level if you ditch the soft top and mechanism.
I can't specifically remember on the 986's I've hard with hard tops but they can often introduce groans and creaks as the chassis flex's so they aren't always an improvement on the soft top. My old MR2 was bad for it.
One of the things that put me off getting one is if there's an issue you can't remove it on your own to access the engine bay. I'm sure your conversion will be more reliable than mine has been, I seem to need to access my engine bay fairly regularly. It would become a real chore if I needed help every time and if you breakdown, it could be something simple like a boost pipe coming off and you wouldn't be able to sort it.
I can't specifically remember on the 986's I've hard with hard tops but they can often introduce groans and creaks as the chassis flex's so they aren't always an improvement on the soft top. My old MR2 was bad for it.
One of the things that put me off getting one is if there's an issue you can't remove it on your own to access the engine bay. I'm sure your conversion will be more reliable than mine has been, I seem to need to access my engine bay fairly regularly. It would become a real chore if I needed help every time and if you breakdown, it could be something simple like a boost pipe coming off and you wouldn't be able to sort it.
Maintenance is a very good point Escy! I do have a little winch in the garage roof for picking random things up but that doesn't help when out and about and at the moment it's engine cover off to dip the oil! I'm parking that idea until I've at least sorted dipping the oil from the boot
As for reliability, I'm hopeful about that but there's only one way to find out. The motor is built with good bits and there's no unaddressed hot spots in the installation/package so it should be well behaved in that regard, it's running decent knock control and general engine safeties so that should save it from the common stuff and all the fuel system is brand name that's been rig tested, injectors matched etc. etc. Torque is capped within the limit of the gearbox and clutch so they should at least hold on (but driveshafts are a bit of an unkown). The elephant in the room is of course all the aftermarket stuff in the engine which won't have done anything like OEM durability testing but then there isn't a lot one can do about that apart from be the testing! I am confident that with a bone stock BAM or similar in it running similar power it would be just as reliable as the TT/Golf/Cupra that it came out of.
As for reliability, I'm hopeful about that but there's only one way to find out. The motor is built with good bits and there's no unaddressed hot spots in the installation/package so it should be well behaved in that regard, it's running decent knock control and general engine safeties so that should save it from the common stuff and all the fuel system is brand name that's been rig tested, injectors matched etc. etc. Torque is capped within the limit of the gearbox and clutch so they should at least hold on (but driveshafts are a bit of an unkown). The elephant in the room is of course all the aftermarket stuff in the engine which won't have done anything like OEM durability testing but then there isn't a lot one can do about that apart from be the testing! I am confident that with a bone stock BAM or similar in it running similar power it would be just as reliable as the TT/Golf/Cupra that it came out of.
A very short video during the first shakedown drive:
Obviously low load/boost as the motor had only covered a handful of miles at this point and I was mostly tickling it just to get some load on the rings..... makes great turbo noises though I am very happy that I chose to swap some efficiency and arguably turbo life for rally car sounds. At these low speeds the air filter location is definitely sub optimal too as it's a solid 35 degrees around it below 70mph, I'll decide if that's a heatshield, kicks on the side ducts or relocation based solve in due course but moving the filter away from the bulkhead is going to reduce those turbo flutters.
Obviously low load/boost as the motor had only covered a handful of miles at this point and I was mostly tickling it just to get some load on the rings..... makes great turbo noises though
I am very happy that I chose to swap some efficiency and arguably turbo life for rally car sounds. At these low speeds the air filter location is definitely sub optimal too as it's a solid 35 degrees around it below 70mph, I'll decide if that's a heatshield, kicks on the side ducts or relocation based solve in due course but moving the filter away from the bulkhead is going to reduce those turbo flutters.I’d keep the soft top. It’s pretty refined with it on and seems you won’t lose loads of weight if you replace it with a hardtop.
But you may well regret it when the sun and summer eventually arrive and you no longer have a convertible on which to enjoy it. You’ve got a fast coupe already in the 911 so the Boxster with a soft top gives you something different.
Oh - and you’d have to change the thread title of you fit a hard top!
But you may well regret it when the sun and summer eventually arrive and you no longer have a convertible on which to enjoy it. You’ve got a fast coupe already in the 911 so the Boxster with a soft top gives you something different.
Oh - and you’d have to change the thread title of you fit a hard top!
Well it looks like a duff stat is to blame for my cooling issues, it's absolutely bled properly, all the bleeds are in the right place and water pump flow is excellent, but there is only flow through the return behind the stat.
Somewhat annoying as that was a brand new one but it's a good example of why sticking them in the kettle before fitting is a good idea!
At least it's a simple fix There's another stat on the way and I'll swap that over later this week.
Aside from that having had a good look around and over it after the first 30 miles it all looks tip top, no witnessing on anything and clearances around shift cables, lines and looms is all still as it was built.
The job list now is pretty straightforward, obviously change the stat first, I then want to tidy up the engine cover (I have a plan for that!) as that was a bit of a temporary job to get some miles on it and then we're off to the dyno once it's run in. I may also add a plenum to the charge cooler system to add another half litre or so to the system but I'm undecided if that's absolutely required yet....
Somewhat annoying as that was a brand new one but it's a good example of why sticking them in the kettle before fitting is a good idea!
At least it's a simple fix
There's another stat on the way and I'll swap that over later this week. Aside from that having had a good look around and over it after the first 30 miles it all looks tip top, no witnessing on anything and clearances around shift cables, lines and looms is all still as it was built.
The job list now is pretty straightforward, obviously change the stat first, I then want to tidy up the engine cover (I have a plan for that!) as that was a bit of a temporary job to get some miles on it and then we're off to the dyno once it's run in. I may also add a plenum to the charge cooler system to add another half litre or so to the system but I'm undecided if that's absolutely required yet....
The hardtop does isolate noise a bit more, but also groans as noted above.
It will look more race car with a hardtop as all the race series cars have to wear them.
Weight wise they are surprisingly light, made of alloy.
You can get it on and off yourself if you have long arms but its very awkward. Those pins spiking down are a risk to your paintwork!
I used to get it off myself, chuck. sheet on the lawn and drop it upside down on it.
If you want to add some lightness how about a composite top? With used tops going for £750 (sold mine for this) it doesn't look too pricey.
https://clubautosport.co.uk/product/porsche-986-98...
You could also add some lightness elsewhere with wings, bonnet and bootlid..... https://clubautosport.co.uk/product-category/model...
It will look more race car with a hardtop as all the race series cars have to wear them.
Weight wise they are surprisingly light, made of alloy.
You can get it on and off yourself if you have long arms but its very awkward. Those pins spiking down are a risk to your paintwork!
I used to get it off myself, chuck. sheet on the lawn and drop it upside down on it.
If you want to add some lightness how about a composite top? With used tops going for £750 (sold mine for this) it doesn't look too pricey.
https://clubautosport.co.uk/product/porsche-986-98...
You could also add some lightness elsewhere with wings, bonnet and bootlid..... https://clubautosport.co.uk/product-category/model...
Brilliant thread, unsurprisingly the workmanship and quality is off the chart. I’ve got a hard top for my 987, I think it’s been on for two weeks out of 5 years of ownership, I think they look great on the car but I couldn’t get mine to fit quite right so it let water in on the front drivers side, I don’t remember it creaking much and made the car feel like a cayman from the inside.
So one thermostat change later and the cooling works as it should. A little annoying but more proof of how servieable it is in situ so I suppose that's the positive take away..... I'm saying nothing about the quality of parts from Euro's but the Borg and Beck one looked much more like it and works!
I'm going to add a feed plenum for the charge cooler pump to up the thermal mass in the system by a litre or so, I'm not sure if I really need to but I'm taking a better to have and not need approach to the dyno as I'd like it to be one and done on that so I can crack on with clocking some miles up on it.
I'm 100 miles in now and nothing to report apart from once above 20MPH or so it drives like a standard Boxster, below that you can feel the difference between an I4 and an F6 with regards frequency of vibration etc. it's a very acceptable amount of NVH, which it should be really as all the mounts are the same, just different and not in a bad way.
Oh.... and I've ordered a go-pro to sort some decent video as requested
I'm going to add a feed plenum for the charge cooler pump to up the thermal mass in the system by a litre or so, I'm not sure if I really need to but I'm taking a better to have and not need approach to the dyno as I'd like it to be one and done on that so I can crack on with clocking some miles up on it.
I'm 100 miles in now and nothing to report apart from once above 20MPH or so it drives like a standard Boxster, below that you can feel the difference between an I4 and an F6 with regards frequency of vibration etc. it's a very acceptable amount of NVH, which it should be really as all the mounts are the same, just different and not in a bad way.
Oh.... and I've ordered a go-pro to sort some decent video as requested
eltax91 said:
You should start a bargain 986's for restoration/upgrade thread! Your ebaying skills are beyond compare poppopbangbang said:
eltax91 said:
You should start a bargain 986's for restoration/upgrade thread! Your ebaying skills are beyond compare Another one with an engine issue: https://shorturl.at/efgqB
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