Another VW Golf Mk2 16v
Discussion
chrismc1977 said:
Enjoy the drive- but don’t lean on those 239’s
It will be a very gentle drive to start with, the engine still needs running in. Got about 300 miles to put on it before I can give it any beans. 
Want to check it can hold all its fluids and everything works before I go anything close to 'brisk'!Cheers,
Drew
Edited by drewwa on Monday 1st June 10:16
Woohoo.
Back from a "first drive" in the GTI. Overall seems pretty good. Engine is smooth, no hesitation, seems to be reasonably torquey at the bottom end and is gaining enthusiasm as the revs rise.
Brakes are... well ok I suppose! Still a slight pull to the left under cadence braking, so needs further investigation, but much better than before.
Handling has been dramatically improved by having the suspension mounts in the right way, car no longer jiggling about - think I can live with it now.
MFA working. Oil temp reached 104 on the drive - seems a little higher than I remember for my mk1, but google seems to suggest that's ok.
Steering is dead straight, so we guessed well with the tracking! ??
Cooling fan was running as I pulled up to the driveway though, so will keep an eye on that - but it's a fairly hot day down here.
Exhaust is surprisingly quiet given how big it is. Not intrusive when driving that's for sure. The speedo is the annoying part, rattling like a good 'un. Speeds up to 40 mph currently unknown!! ??
Overall, seems pretty solid. Not very exciting given the low revs, but seems nicely planted on the road. I think I reached 3,500 rpm, so well below the interesting parts!
Plan is now to run it around a bit to get the engine run in proper, oil/filter change, and then open her up bit by bit.
Cheers,
Drew.
Back from a "first drive" in the GTI. Overall seems pretty good. Engine is smooth, no hesitation, seems to be reasonably torquey at the bottom end and is gaining enthusiasm as the revs rise.
Brakes are... well ok I suppose! Still a slight pull to the left under cadence braking, so needs further investigation, but much better than before.
Handling has been dramatically improved by having the suspension mounts in the right way, car no longer jiggling about - think I can live with it now.
MFA working. Oil temp reached 104 on the drive - seems a little higher than I remember for my mk1, but google seems to suggest that's ok.
Steering is dead straight, so we guessed well with the tracking! ??
Cooling fan was running as I pulled up to the driveway though, so will keep an eye on that - but it's a fairly hot day down here.
Exhaust is surprisingly quiet given how big it is. Not intrusive when driving that's for sure. The speedo is the annoying part, rattling like a good 'un. Speeds up to 40 mph currently unknown!! ??
Overall, seems pretty solid. Not very exciting given the low revs, but seems nicely planted on the road. I think I reached 3,500 rpm, so well below the interesting parts!
Plan is now to run it around a bit to get the engine run in proper, oil/filter change, and then open her up bit by bit.
Cheers,
Drew.
So, you know when a car gives you a little warning and you think to yourself, it will be all right... I did. Don't.
I thought I'd take the Golf out to my son's garage for a run. It's about 10 miles away, country lanes, twisty roads, 2-3-4-5-4-3-2 gearchanges, not busy. Sun is out, sky is blue etc. Fabulous.
I had the MFA pegged on the oil temp gauge, as I was curious to see at what temp it stabilised at. 98-102 seems to be normal whilst cruising about. Everything else is fine. Water temp needle is sitting bang in the centre, car is driving beautifully, the miles go past, birds singing in the trees.
Temp needle is going up. Hello... now temp warning light is flashing.
Immediately killed the engine and coasted to the side of the road. I'm between villages so in the middle of nowhere really. Minor B-road.
Ominous hissing sound. Bonnet up and you guessed it... that tiniest of tiny leaks from the lower hose... not so tiny anymore. I had taken tools and water with me, but the pipe wasn't leaking, it had actually split... though not from where it had been dripping. Which is how we ended up here.
I'd just passed an old couple walking their dog who, all credit to them, did stop to say hello and check I was ok, with the lady commenting "I was just saying that you don't see many of these around any more" ... as my car is steaming away. I said "And this is why!" 
Fortunately my son wasn't far away so he came and towed me back to his garage where we put on a new hose. Good having an apprentice mechanic in the family! I cooked him dinner and got him a beer when we got home.
Wasn't too long before we were back up and running. No harm done so it seems.
The hose was in an awkward spot (under other hoses in front of the water pump) and upon removal we could see why it had gone. Looked ok from the top, but was clearly on its last legs when viewed the other way around. Many of the hoses have already been replaced, but we'd missed this one. According to Golf lore it's a common problem. A 5mm split had developed whilst driving along.
So... therein is today's lesson. Fix anything obvious before driving.
I consider myself suitably chastised.
Cheers,
Drew.
I thought I'd take the Golf out to my son's garage for a run. It's about 10 miles away, country lanes, twisty roads, 2-3-4-5-4-3-2 gearchanges, not busy. Sun is out, sky is blue etc. Fabulous.
I had the MFA pegged on the oil temp gauge, as I was curious to see at what temp it stabilised at. 98-102 seems to be normal whilst cruising about. Everything else is fine. Water temp needle is sitting bang in the centre, car is driving beautifully, the miles go past, birds singing in the trees.
Temp needle is going up. Hello... now temp warning light is flashing.
Immediately killed the engine and coasted to the side of the road. I'm between villages so in the middle of nowhere really. Minor B-road.
Ominous hissing sound. Bonnet up and you guessed it... that tiniest of tiny leaks from the lower hose... not so tiny anymore. I had taken tools and water with me, but the pipe wasn't leaking, it had actually split... though not from where it had been dripping. Which is how we ended up here.
I'd just passed an old couple walking their dog who, all credit to them, did stop to say hello and check I was ok, with the lady commenting "I was just saying that you don't see many of these around any more" ... as my car is steaming away.
I said "And this is why!" Fortunately my son wasn't far away so he came and towed me back to his garage where we put on a new hose. Good having an apprentice mechanic in the family! I cooked him dinner and got him a beer when we got home.
Wasn't too long before we were back up and running. No harm done so it seems.
The hose was in an awkward spot (under other hoses in front of the water pump) and upon removal we could see why it had gone. Looked ok from the top, but was clearly on its last legs when viewed the other way around. Many of the hoses have already been replaced, but we'd missed this one. According to Golf lore it's a common problem. A 5mm split had developed whilst driving along.
So... therein is today's lesson. Fix anything obvious before driving.
I consider myself suitably chastised.Cheers,
Drew.
Edited by drewwa on Tuesday 2nd June 13:53
Well... another day another problem!
Looks like, in addition to the hose, there's another problem. A short drive today and the car started overheating again. Stopped at roadside to look... all hoses ok... but water now dribbling down the back of the block!
Mostly likely culprit at this moment in time is a failed coreplug. Could have been weakened by the overheat yesterday I suppose - difficult to tell.
Lovely. Car is not endearing itself to me at the moment!
Cheers,
Drew.
Looks like, in addition to the hose, there's another problem. A short drive today and the car started overheating again. Stopped at roadside to look... all hoses ok... but water now dribbling down the back of the block!
Mostly likely culprit at this moment in time is a failed coreplug. Could have been weakened by the overheat yesterday I suppose - difficult to tell.
Lovely. Car is not endearing itself to me at the moment!
Cheers,
Drew.
Edited by drewwa on Tuesday 2nd June 16:57
chrismc1977 said:
Have you confirmed thermostat is ok given both issues have occurred after short drives?
I wouldn’t expect a weep from a core plug to cause overheating unless all the coolant had gone...
We put a new thermostat in when we fixed the first leak... so hopefully not! I wouldn’t expect a weep from a core plug to cause overheating unless all the coolant had gone...
Car managed a 20 mile drive yesterday with no issues.
We've now managed to see the water is definitely pouring out of the centre core plug... engine doesn't even need to be running. Looks like the plug is quite badly corroded and they weren't done as part of the engine rebuild.
Working theory is that fixing the leaky hose has revealed the next weakest link in the chain and popped a dodgy plug.
Cheers,
Drew.
Edited by drewwa on Tuesday 2nd June 19:29
So. I managed to actually get a photo of the problem today. Water dripping out at a steady rate the moment you undo the expansion bottle cap (engine not running).
There are three core plugs and it's the centre one that's gone.
Here's a pic of the engine when it was out (if only they'd been replaced then!).
Fixing it doesn't look too hard. Getting to it with engine in situ, not so easy. It's underneath the exhaust manifold, so we'll have to unbolt that and drop the exhaust. Not sure whether we can get to it from underneath or whether we'll have to approach from above, if so that means taking off all the inlet gubbins too. It's looking like the latter.
Core plugs are on order!
Fun, fun, fun. Car currently has a new nick-name. The brokeswagen.
Cheers,
Drew.
There are three core plugs and it's the centre one that's gone.
Here's a pic of the engine when it was out (if only they'd been replaced then!).
Fixing it doesn't look too hard. Getting to it with engine in situ, not so easy. It's underneath the exhaust manifold, so we'll have to unbolt that and drop the exhaust. Not sure whether we can get to it from underneath or whether we'll have to approach from above, if so that means taking off all the inlet gubbins too. It's looking like the latter.
Core plugs are on order!
Fun, fun, fun. Car currently has a new nick-name. The brokeswagen.
Cheers,
Drew.
Edited by drewwa on Thursday 4th June 17:19
Took the intake runners off yesterday so we could have a better look.
Better picture of the busted core plug. Fortunately the other two seem to be fine. From the looks of this it's been weeping for a while. The hole is maybe 2-3mm wide.
Since we have a 4-2-1 manifold on the car we're hoping we can get away with replaceing the plug without dropped the manifold off. Will report back with progress (weather stopped play for the time being).
Cheers,
Drew.
Better picture of the busted core plug. Fortunately the other two seem to be fine. From the looks of this it's been weeping for a while. The hole is maybe 2-3mm wide.
Since we have a 4-2-1 manifold on the car we're hoping we can get away with replaceing the plug without dropped the manifold off. Will report back with progress (weather stopped play for the time being).
Cheers,
Drew.
Well... I feel like a bit of a mechanical God today. Didn't have to drop the exhaust manifold. Phew!
Finally... after a *lot* of banging and levering... managed to get the wretched core plug out. It didn't give up without a fight that was for sure - none of that tap it on one side, lever it out business. No.
Had to go the full monty on it with virtually everything in the kit bag. Eventually it came out!
You can see by what's left of it how reluctant it was to give up.
Lightly sanded down the resultant hole with some 800 grade and then flushed water through it a few times. Seems to be a bit of a casting lip at the 1-2 o'clock position, but it's totally solid.
Going to leave it to stand overnight and dry out and then attempt fitting the new plug with some locktight tomorrow if the weather is ok.
Pretty happy to have got the old plug out though.
Cheers,
Drew.
Didn't have to drop the exhaust manifold. Phew!Finally... after a *lot* of banging and levering... managed to get the wretched core plug out. It didn't give up without a fight that was for sure - none of that tap it on one side, lever it out business. No.
Had to go the full monty on it with virtually everything in the kit bag. Eventually it came out!
You can see by what's left of it how reluctant it was to give up.
Lightly sanded down the resultant hole with some 800 grade and then flushed water through it a few times. Seems to be a bit of a casting lip at the 1-2 o'clock position, but it's totally solid.
Going to leave it to stand overnight and dry out and then attempt fitting the new plug with some locktight tomorrow if the weather is ok.
Pretty happy to have got the old plug out though.
Cheers,
Drew.
She's back together and (touch wood/lucky rabbit's foot) working ok.
Took her cautiously around my local roads half a mile away from home until she had warmed up. Inspected and found no leaks. Let her run up to full temperature and the coolant fan is cutting in and out as required. All ok!
Took her on a 10 mile run and all seems good! I'm going to give her a few warmup/cooldown cycles to ensure everything is happy, keeping an eye on that coolant level throughout.
Just passed 200 miles on the rebuild now, another 300 or so to go before a complete service and start opening her up to see what she can do!
Cheers,
Drew.
Took her cautiously around my local roads half a mile away from home until she had warmed up. Inspected and found no leaks. Let her run up to full temperature and the coolant fan is cutting in and out as required. All ok!
Took her on a 10 mile run and all seems good! I'm going to give her a few warmup/cooldown cycles to ensure everything is happy, keeping an eye on that coolant level throughout.
Just passed 200 miles on the rebuild now, another 300 or so to go before a complete service and start opening her up to see what she can do!
Cheers,
Drew.
Edited by drewwa on Thursday 11th June 17:03
I'm pleased to report we've managed 100 incident free miles and are only 175 miles away from major service and oil change. After that we can start exploiting the upper part of the rev range and see how good this engine is. Been keeping it between 2k and 4k all the time at the moment.
The GTI 16v does feel pretty ordinary at low rpms which I suppose is not surprising given it's based on typically versatile 80s hatchback. Compared to modern cars there's so little torque at low rpms it keeps catching me out (spoiled by boost in my TT and supercharged mx5) but I'm just having to learn to drop a gear ratio early than I'm used to.
I took it down some quiet and familiar country lanes, keeping the speed up as much as possible and leaning on the handling and brakes a bit more. Handling is pretty good. Turn in is excellent and grip is ok, though tyre squeal is evident early on. Car corners pretty flat though. With a bit more speed and cornering the car starts to come alive, but it's nothing like as fizz/bang as my old Mk1 GTI was. The horns grew in that one the moment you left the driveway - the mk2 is definitely much more grown up.
Brakes (those 239mm discs mentioned earlier in the thread) work, but are just plain scary compared to modern stuff. I will need to do something about them, they're simply inadequate.
Having up'd the max revs to 4k gives the car a bit more pace, but it still can't keep up with modern traffic yet. It's quiet funny the reaction that other motorists have. Some clearly recognise what it is (already had several thumbs up), other have no idea why this red car is creeping along the road in their way.
We've swapped the alloys on our two Golfs to make the GTI 'standard' for insurance purposes. My 20 year old son can then afford to insure it - needless to say he's rather excited.
We have replacement standard dampers and springs on order and a Novus classic line exhaust (thanks for the tip to someone earlier in the thread!). That will bring the car back to 100% original. Hopefully we can move the old exhaust and the coilovers onto someone else as they're pretty new.
Pics from today's low rev hoon!
Cheers,
Drew.
The GTI 16v does feel pretty ordinary at low rpms which I suppose is not surprising given it's based on typically versatile 80s hatchback. Compared to modern cars there's so little torque at low rpms it keeps catching me out (spoiled by boost in my TT and supercharged mx5) but I'm just having to learn to drop a gear ratio early than I'm used to.
I took it down some quiet and familiar country lanes, keeping the speed up as much as possible and leaning on the handling and brakes a bit more. Handling is pretty good. Turn in is excellent and grip is ok, though tyre squeal is evident early on. Car corners pretty flat though. With a bit more speed and cornering the car starts to come alive, but it's nothing like as fizz/bang as my old Mk1 GTI was. The horns grew in that one the moment you left the driveway - the mk2 is definitely much more grown up.
Brakes (those 239mm discs mentioned earlier in the thread) work, but are just plain scary compared to modern stuff. I will need to do something about them, they're simply inadequate.
Having up'd the max revs to 4k gives the car a bit more pace, but it still can't keep up with modern traffic yet. It's quiet funny the reaction that other motorists have. Some clearly recognise what it is (already had several thumbs up), other have no idea why this red car is creeping along the road in their way.
We've swapped the alloys on our two Golfs to make the GTI 'standard' for insurance purposes. My 20 year old son can then afford to insure it - needless to say he's rather excited.
We have replacement standard dampers and springs on order and a Novus classic line exhaust (thanks for the tip to someone earlier in the thread!). That will bring the car back to 100% original. Hopefully we can move the old exhaust and the coilovers onto someone else as they're pretty new.
Pics from today's low rev hoon!
Cheers,
Drew.
Edited by drewwa on Tuesday 16th June 14:05
Thanks for all the tips! The WUR mod is on my list of things to do once happy the car is basically sound overall. I definitely put the hose on the back of the dashpod... but maybe the pipe is leaking somewhere else - another thing to check!
I remember all the 8v v 16v torque conversations back in my Club GTI days and remember that graph back in the 80s.The debate went on for years.
I have to say... facts not withstanding, the 16v doesn't (subjectively) feel as eager to me from low revs as I remember my 8v cars being. I'd have to drive them back to back as I've not had one since 2009 and memory is a funny old thing.
I presume that graph is at full throttle, so I wonder if the 16v perhaps isn't quite so responsive at part throttle settings low in the rev range? Not sure though. It's definitely perking up as we hit 4k and it feeling like the engine is just coming alive at that point... the car seems almost disappointed that we've changed up... like it's saying... "Awww... just getting to the good stuff!"
Cheers,
Drew.
I remember all the 8v v 16v torque conversations back in my Club GTI days and remember that graph back in the 80s.The debate went on for years.
I have to say... facts not withstanding, the 16v doesn't (subjectively) feel as eager to me from low revs as I remember my 8v cars being. I'd have to drive them back to back as I've not had one since 2009 and memory is a funny old thing.
I presume that graph is at full throttle, so I wonder if the 16v perhaps isn't quite so responsive at part throttle settings low in the rev range? Not sure though. It's definitely perking up as we hit 4k and it feeling like the engine is just coming alive at that point... the car seems almost disappointed that we've changed up... like it's saying... "Awww... just getting to the good stuff!"
Cheers,
Drew.
Final bits and pieces for returning the car to 100% original have arrived.
Original height 16v springs with OE style Bilstein shocks (about as close as you can get to OEM now). These are to replace the coilovers that are on the car. These aren't too bad now, but they lower the car too much (even on their highest setting) for me. Lots of folks seem to lower their cars and complain about standard suspension being soft and wallowy, but I suspect most have never experienced their car on 'new' standard suspension as it came from the factory.
Along with that lot is the Novus Classic Line exhaust as recommended on this thread. Very nice quality overall and definitely looks the part in terms of OEM-ness.
I've also got a complete hose kit to replace all the tired stuff on the car. We're hoping to get all that lot done on Saturday! What's left is just minor tidy up, small bits of trim and a really good clean, polish, treatment etc etc!
Cheers,
Drew.
Original height 16v springs with OE style Bilstein shocks (about as close as you can get to OEM now). These are to replace the coilovers that are on the car. These aren't too bad now, but they lower the car too much (even on their highest setting) for me. Lots of folks seem to lower their cars and complain about standard suspension being soft and wallowy, but I suspect most have never experienced their car on 'new' standard suspension as it came from the factory.
Along with that lot is the Novus Classic Line exhaust as recommended on this thread. Very nice quality overall and definitely looks the part in terms of OEM-ness.
I've also got a complete hose kit to replace all the tired stuff on the car. We're hoping to get all that lot done on Saturday! What's left is just minor tidy up, small bits of trim and a really good clean, polish, treatment etc etc!
Cheers,
Drew.
pistolpedro said:
Great to see you out and enjoying it, looks ace on the road.
I think you'll be pleased with the suspension, on my 16v I went from a lowered setup to new oe and it transformed it. I did leave my uprated ARB's on however, these are great on a mk2 as they sharpen up the handling with little impact on ride.
Shame about the brakes, my 1.3 has 239mm solid discs and drums at the back and that brakes well, it's quite involved moving from 239mm to 256mm (more so than 256 - 280) but there's plenty of good info on Club GTI
Yes... it's definitely a bit of faff going from 239 to 256. Can't go any bigger as I want the option of using the 14" bottletop alloys when I can get my hands on a set.I think you'll be pleased with the suspension, on my 16v I went from a lowered setup to new oe and it transformed it. I did leave my uprated ARB's on however, these are great on a mk2 as they sharpen up the handling with little impact on ride.
Shame about the brakes, my 1.3 has 239mm solid discs and drums at the back and that brakes well, it's quite involved moving from 239mm to 256mm (more so than 256 - 280) but there's plenty of good info on Club GTI
Cheers,
Drew.
So, as always, things didn't go quite to plan today, but good progress was made.
We started on the suspension. Both rear coilovers came out... fine.
But we discovered that the new dampers didn't have the top plates.
Nothing for the springs to be compressed into, so that was it for the suspension today. We messed up here by not checking, but it hadn't occurred to either of us that we'd need additional parts on top of what we'd ordered. Ho hum.
So the coilovers had to go back on. Fortunately they're almost new and in good order.
Getting the exhaust off was the pig it normally is, but we got there in the end. A couple of side by side comparisons. The exit on the old one is ridiculously huge... though the new one seems tiny!
Fitting the exhaust was much easier. Smaller and lighter overall, it fitted like a glove - thumps up for the recommendation on the Novus Line - it's quality. Slotted into place and hung nicely.
With the suspension back on the car for now, we decided to do the hose kit - replacing all the main hoses in the car with fresh new stuff. In most cases the originals were still in place and many had survived well. On inspection two had significant cracks and were accidents waiting to happen. Massive peace of mind now.
With that all done we topped up with proper coolant, ran up to temperature and waited for the fans to kick in. All seemed good.
Time for a run.
And what a difference. You can now have a conversation in the car and hear all the induction noise from the engine rather than the boom/drone from the back of the car. Fabulous - really happy with the change!
My son came out in his mildly tweaked 1.6 CL (head skim, weber carb, GTI cam and exhaust) and we had a little drag down the bypass from 2k to 4.5k in 3rd gear. Cars were neck and neck! Needless to say he was quite chuffed with that.
End result looks like this, very happy with progress!
Cheers,
Drew.
We started on the suspension. Both rear coilovers came out... fine.
But we discovered that the new dampers didn't have the top plates.
Nothing for the springs to be compressed into, so that was it for the suspension today. We messed up here by not checking, but it hadn't occurred to either of us that we'd need additional parts on top of what we'd ordered. Ho hum.So the coilovers had to go back on. Fortunately they're almost new and in good order.
Getting the exhaust off was the pig it normally is, but we got there in the end. A couple of side by side comparisons. The exit on the old one is ridiculously huge... though the new one seems tiny!
Fitting the exhaust was much easier. Smaller and lighter overall, it fitted like a glove - thumps up for the recommendation on the Novus Line - it's quality. Slotted into place and hung nicely.
With the suspension back on the car for now, we decided to do the hose kit - replacing all the main hoses in the car with fresh new stuff. In most cases the originals were still in place and many had survived well. On inspection two had significant cracks and were accidents waiting to happen. Massive peace of mind now.
With that all done we topped up with proper coolant, ran up to temperature and waited for the fans to kick in. All seemed good.
Time for a run.
And what a difference. You can now have a conversation in the car and hear all the induction noise from the engine rather than the boom/drone from the back of the car. Fabulous - really happy with the change!
My son came out in his mildly tweaked 1.6 CL (head skim, weber carb, GTI cam and exhaust) and we had a little drag down the bypass from 2k to 4.5k in 3rd gear. Cars were neck and neck! Needless to say he was quite chuffed with that.
End result looks like this, very happy with progress!
Cheers,
Drew.
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