1999 Citroen Saxo VTR? The long and winding road....
Discussion
The day of reckoning arrived! Yesterday, the Saxo made its way into the workshop so that the 'major' can commence:
A lot of work, and not a lot of time to do it in (where have I read that before?!) The car's here for some repairs, and some enhancements (which include removing components that were classed as 'enhancements' in previous years). But first up, I need to undress it:
Arch liners out to tentatively assess the condition of the inner wings:
Fortunately they're no worse than expected....so far!
Then it's a case of continuing to remove stuff:
The downside of waterless coolant - you know you've got to filter it out and reuse it!
Amassing quite the pile of Saxo parts on the floor already!
In moving the wheels around, I immediately noticed how much heavier the 15in VTS items fitted currently felt than the 14in VTR ones, which are now fitted up with four Dunlop BlueResponse tyres:
I decided to weigh them, out of curiosity. VTS wheels: 16.5kg each (with the Yokohama tyres on); VTR wheels: a shade over 13kg each with the Dunlops. In a car that weighs around 940kg, a 14kg saving is not to be sniffed at! And, it's unsprung too.
Once I'd run out of time removing things, I travelled round looking for more grief. The brake servo didn't look too clever, so I need to check whether the master cylinder is leaking past the seals or not:
The oil leaks have been pretty bad! It doesn't look as dramatic at the rocker cover, but the engine is caked in the stuff! And not just the engine, either. Everything bolted to it is also dripping wet!
The securing bracket to the exhaust downpipe is making a bid for freedom. Caught it just in time, and should be fixable with a welder:
Inner wings don't look too bad so far. I think cleaning all the grease and gunk away so they can be repainted is going to be the bigger issue!
Underneath, we caught this just in time....I think!:
Front struts are coming out anyway, so I'll have to get up there and sort all that out. I'm hoping to not have to take the front wings off, but we'll see.
I went and had a look at the back end, where all the other welding repairs were carried out 4-5 years ago. Looking better than I thought back there, actually:
Needs a little bit of TLC on the offside, but that's probably because I wasn't thorough enough with the painting/sealing:
The black paint was only stonechip spray, which I've come to discover is pretty s
t, so I knew that would need going over again.
I'm up against it as I only have a couple of weeks in which to carry out this work. I can't use the ramp up for too long, and then there's the 'C' word coming up. And then on the 4th January - the anniversary of when Nat bought the Saxo in 2004....15 years ago! She wants it on the road for that date, and ready to rock.
Back to it next week then! Have ordered quite a few parts already, with a list growing by the day. Time to break out a sweat!
A lot of work, and not a lot of time to do it in (where have I read that before?!) The car's here for some repairs, and some enhancements (which include removing components that were classed as 'enhancements' in previous years). But first up, I need to undress it:
Arch liners out to tentatively assess the condition of the inner wings:
Fortunately they're no worse than expected....so far!
Then it's a case of continuing to remove stuff:
The downside of waterless coolant - you know you've got to filter it out and reuse it!
Amassing quite the pile of Saxo parts on the floor already!
In moving the wheels around, I immediately noticed how much heavier the 15in VTS items fitted currently felt than the 14in VTR ones, which are now fitted up with four Dunlop BlueResponse tyres:
I decided to weigh them, out of curiosity. VTS wheels: 16.5kg each (with the Yokohama tyres on); VTR wheels: a shade over 13kg each with the Dunlops. In a car that weighs around 940kg, a 14kg saving is not to be sniffed at! And, it's unsprung too.
Once I'd run out of time removing things, I travelled round looking for more grief. The brake servo didn't look too clever, so I need to check whether the master cylinder is leaking past the seals or not:
The oil leaks have been pretty bad! It doesn't look as dramatic at the rocker cover, but the engine is caked in the stuff! And not just the engine, either. Everything bolted to it is also dripping wet!
The securing bracket to the exhaust downpipe is making a bid for freedom. Caught it just in time, and should be fixable with a welder:
Inner wings don't look too bad so far. I think cleaning all the grease and gunk away so they can be repainted is going to be the bigger issue!
Underneath, we caught this just in time....I think!:
Front struts are coming out anyway, so I'll have to get up there and sort all that out. I'm hoping to not have to take the front wings off, but we'll see.
I went and had a look at the back end, where all the other welding repairs were carried out 4-5 years ago. Looking better than I thought back there, actually:
Needs a little bit of TLC on the offside, but that's probably because I wasn't thorough enough with the painting/sealing:
The black paint was only stonechip spray, which I've come to discover is pretty s
t, so I knew that would need going over again.I'm up against it as I only have a couple of weeks in which to carry out this work. I can't use the ramp up for too long, and then there's the 'C' word coming up. And then on the 4th January - the anniversary of when Nat bought the Saxo in 2004....15 years ago! She wants it on the road for that date, and ready to rock.
Back to it next week then! Have ordered quite a few parts already, with a list growing by the day. Time to break out a sweat!
Spare tyre said:
Are you the fella who worked at ecp in millbronx?
If so we have spoken many times before, I’m the same age as you I think and weirdly have had pretty much the same range of ropey french motors at about the same time. Sure we had friends of friends of friends
Small world
Erm, yes, possibly. Worked there around 2004-2006. Should I be scared? If so we have spoken many times before, I’m the same age as you I think and weirdly have had pretty much the same range of ropey french motors at about the same time. Sure we had friends of friends of friends
Small world
Back on it last night. The job list grows by the day, so there's no time to waste; The engine needs to come out!
Next up, a good nose around. There are quite a few issues to look at, chief of which is preventing a future iron-oxide related disaster:
A fair bit of work to do there!
A lot of this is going to need to come off, too:
The steering makes this weird knocking noise occasionally, and I'm debating whether it's a worn rack or not. A few guys on the various Facebook pages seem to think the amount of play I have is normal, but being that changing that rack is about as tricky as it looks, I'm thinking about just renewing it anyway.
I removed the front section of the exhaust heat shield, and unearthed the main gear linkage:
One of the annoying noises that's been driving my wife up the wall recently is infact not me, but rather a buzzy gearlever. High revs = loud metallic vibration. Not good. There's a strange ball/socket arrangement on the bulkhead, where the end of the linkage has a socket, and a rotating......thing on the bulkhead has a ball. The ball is rubberised (plastic) and sits in the end of the main linkage:
The ball isn't quite spherical, and has four contact points which are slightly raised. The socket in which the ball sits is actually a pressing in the end of the linkage, and I can feel a slight wear ridge in there, so I think I'll try and make a new sleeve to press in there. The gear linkage was removed, thus:
There are also a couple of bushes in the bottom of the lever, which I'm going to renew.
Next up, a LOT of degreasing and cleaning!
Next up, a good nose around. There are quite a few issues to look at, chief of which is preventing a future iron-oxide related disaster:
A fair bit of work to do there!
A lot of this is going to need to come off, too:
The steering makes this weird knocking noise occasionally, and I'm debating whether it's a worn rack or not. A few guys on the various Facebook pages seem to think the amount of play I have is normal, but being that changing that rack is about as tricky as it looks, I'm thinking about just renewing it anyway.
I removed the front section of the exhaust heat shield, and unearthed the main gear linkage:
One of the annoying noises that's been driving my wife up the wall recently is infact not me, but rather a buzzy gearlever. High revs = loud metallic vibration. Not good. There's a strange ball/socket arrangement on the bulkhead, where the end of the linkage has a socket, and a rotating......thing on the bulkhead has a ball. The ball is rubberised (plastic) and sits in the end of the main linkage:
The ball isn't quite spherical, and has four contact points which are slightly raised. The socket in which the ball sits is actually a pressing in the end of the linkage, and I can feel a slight wear ridge in there, so I think I'll try and make a new sleeve to press in there. The gear linkage was removed, thus:
There are also a couple of bushes in the bottom of the lever, which I'm going to renew.
Next up, a LOT of degreasing and cleaning!
Hadn't realised it had been so long since I updated the Saxo's progress blog, and that in turn has made me realise that I've been working on this thing for about four months! And the best bit? Who forgot to SORN it.....?
Anyway, I'm off ill at the moment with a horrendous case of man-flu (honestly, my teeth are actually itching at the moment. I didn't even know that was a thing!) So what better time to poke aimlessly at a keyboard in a vain attempt to put something semi-coherent together regarding the progress of a little rusty French hatchback worth about as much as half of bottle of Pepsi, to a load of people I don't actually know!
We kick off where we left off, which was....well, you can see it just above! Engine's out, and I'm walking about under the car, sucking through my teeth. Time to put some wheels on it, and move it from the ramp over to a corner of the workshop where I can remove the suspension. Doing this on the ramp would be a bad idea, because then I wouldn't be able to remove it from the ramp!
On the move:
New (temporary) home:
It might seem odd to move a car from a versatile two-post ramp, and move it to axle stands on the floor, like some kind of driveway-chump, but there are two good reasons for this. Firstly, it's a working workshop, and the ramp is needed. I have (at this point) no idea how long this will all take, or how much metalwork will be needed, and I know from experience that if you assume it's not too bad, it almost certainly will be. Secondly, I have to crawl around in the footwells to unbolt the front wishbones, and I can't open the doors on the ramp (which is actually a massive pain in the arse at times!
So, car moved, raised up, and work begins. The first thing to do is those very wishbones, so access to the floor is gained by pulling back the cheap and nasty almost-plastic carpets (I love these cars really):
Further pokery will reveal some nuts:
Once those are undone, the wishbones are pretty simple to remove, along with the struts:
I'm in that difficult position of wanting to remove as little as possible, so that the job doesn't escalate into something huge, but contending with the fact that all the parts that are original have been on the car since the 25th September 1999, and as such aren't all in great shape. Anti-roll bar bushes were really soft:
The central steering joint had a bit of play, too. The steering is supposed to be great on Saxos/106s, but on this car it's been a bit woolly for a while, so I'm hoping that the renewal of all these parts will bring it back to life.
With the parts continuing to migrate from car to floor, it was pretty evident that I'd be doing a fair bit of rust remedial work:
Nearside front bumper mount was looking pretty sad. Quite a common occurrence, presumably as the nearside is the one that drives along the gutter, flicking up st into the arch. And, because it's the common side of issue, there are none left at dealers and specialists to replace it with. Great!
It wasn't just the arches where things looked sad. This bit of inner wing is normally concealed by the ECU:
Top of the chassis rail wasn't spare, either:
Which when poked a bit, turned into:
And that's before we even get to the arches....
Anyway, I'm off ill at the moment with a horrendous case of man-flu (honestly, my teeth are actually itching at the moment. I didn't even know that was a thing!) So what better time to poke aimlessly at a keyboard in a vain attempt to put something semi-coherent together regarding the progress of a little rusty French hatchback worth about as much as half of bottle of Pepsi, to a load of people I don't actually know!
We kick off where we left off, which was....well, you can see it just above! Engine's out, and I'm walking about under the car, sucking through my teeth. Time to put some wheels on it, and move it from the ramp over to a corner of the workshop where I can remove the suspension. Doing this on the ramp would be a bad idea, because then I wouldn't be able to remove it from the ramp!
On the move:
New (temporary) home:
It might seem odd to move a car from a versatile two-post ramp, and move it to axle stands on the floor, like some kind of driveway-chump, but there are two good reasons for this. Firstly, it's a working workshop, and the ramp is needed. I have (at this point) no idea how long this will all take, or how much metalwork will be needed, and I know from experience that if you assume it's not too bad, it almost certainly will be. Secondly, I have to crawl around in the footwells to unbolt the front wishbones, and I can't open the doors on the ramp (which is actually a massive pain in the arse at times!
So, car moved, raised up, and work begins. The first thing to do is those very wishbones, so access to the floor is gained by pulling back the cheap and nasty almost-plastic carpets (I love these cars really):
Further pokery will reveal some nuts:
Once those are undone, the wishbones are pretty simple to remove, along with the struts:
I'm in that difficult position of wanting to remove as little as possible, so that the job doesn't escalate into something huge, but contending with the fact that all the parts that are original have been on the car since the 25th September 1999, and as such aren't all in great shape. Anti-roll bar bushes were really soft:
The central steering joint had a bit of play, too. The steering is supposed to be great on Saxos/106s, but on this car it's been a bit woolly for a while, so I'm hoping that the renewal of all these parts will bring it back to life.
With the parts continuing to migrate from car to floor, it was pretty evident that I'd be doing a fair bit of rust remedial work:
Nearside front bumper mount was looking pretty sad. Quite a common occurrence, presumably as the nearside is the one that drives along the gutter, flicking up s
t into the arch. And, because it's the common side of issue, there are none left at dealers and specialists to replace it with. Great!It wasn't just the arches where things looked sad. This bit of inner wing is normally concealed by the ECU:
Top of the chassis rail wasn't spare, either:
Which when poked a bit, turned into:
And that's before we even get to the arches....
Better try and bring this up to date....again!
The arches revealed many horrors. More rusted metal was removed, and new metal installed:
Still a fair bit to do underneath, but my focus was to get the arches right at the front.
Nearside front bumper mount wasn't looking (or feeling) clever. Very weak, and partially detached. Might explain the dropped bumper before I took it apart!
Removed the mount, and shotblasted it:
I then made two odd-shaped pieces of tin, and welded them into the mount, before dressing it down to look something like an original one.
Oh yeah, I forgot to take a picture of that bit!
The more I inspected, the more I found. The problem with these Saxos is that it only takes a tiny opening in the underseal to get into trouble. You see a spec of rust, and then you managed to pull a scab off it about 50mm across! Nightmare!
This was all pretty depressing stuff, so I decided to play with some other bits for a while. Priorities evaluated, I decided to change the gearknob. I'd consulted my wife to see which knob she'd prefer (lolz), and she spotted the 106 GTi type, and reckoned it'd be ideal.
The genuine GTi ones were leather (most of them), but we found a cheap alternative on eBay. What's the worst that could happen?
The type she wanted:
What we received:
Oh, it gets better:
I mean, for the money (about a tenner) you can't moan if it turns out a bit crap. I decided to moan anyway, got my money back and threw it away. The seller didn't want it back!
Plan B, then! I'd explained to her that if she wanted an OE type, she was either in the realm of older PSA stuff, or newer stuff. A genuine original could have been sourced at Citroen, but she wasn't keen (they do feel a bit like they're made from a recycled lunchbox, in fairness).
So, I went rogue. I instructed her to trust me, and spent £30 on eBay on a used gearknob & pedal set from a Peugeot 206 CC. I knew this gearknob and the pedals, because they're the same as the ones in my C4 VTS. OE+, AND an upgrade. Swish!
A new insert was ordered, and pushed onto the gearlever until it broke. Another insert was ordered, and this time it was heated up before pressing it onto the lever:
Then the replacement gearknob was pressed onto the insert:
I'm well pleased with that. It's much weightier than the original, so it improves the feel of the throw a bit. I also think it looks pretty OE too, and because it's not plastic, it shouldn't crumble away like the old one.
The pedals will have to wait, but in the interim period, I managed to find some actual goldust!
Ready?
Sure?
I'm still giddy at the sight of them now!
Those, are Saxo Furio interior door handles. The Furio was the model I owned at the top of the page, and though the interior was full of cheap tat, the internal door handles were alloy. No other Saxo seemed to have this (I've seen very late VTS' with them, but don't know if they've been added in at a later date).
The Furio itself was produced from around 2000 (on a W reg) until around 2003 (on a 53 reg). Of all the Furios, the majority had the Westcoast interior, with multi-coloured seatbelts, yellow piping on awful cheap seats, and black plastic everywhere else.
Then the Furio received an update, and yet somehow got even cheaper and nastier. The seats were retrimmed in a much more subtle blue or red hue, with even cheaper plastic piping. The doorcards lost their upholstery completely, and in the cars with blue interiors (blue or white bodywork), they featured a dark blue carpet.
And then, from around late 2001 onwards, they randomly started receiving alloy internal door handles! Totally random!
The pull handle itself was taken from the 106 Quiksilver, and later the GTi. However, the plastic body the handle was in was unique to the Saxo, so it's not like PSA had boxes of these laying around as the number of 106 Quiksilvers being ordered fell by the day! Citroen actually had to specify these.
Ever since, they've been very difficult to find. Even by inputting my old Furio's VIN number into the Citroen parts lookup, only the black plastic handles are shown, as per every other Saxo. However, if you leave the VIN out, you can find the part number for the (now obsolete) alloy handles.
So, a couple of months back, I punched one of the numbers into Google (I used to check semi-regularly) and was amazed to see one listed on eBay, for £30! It was brand new, old stock. Bagged & tagged - the whole bit. I submitted a best offer of £25, waited a few hours, slapped myself really hard and just clicked 'buy it now'. Seriously.....I was haggling over a fiver!
That was the driver's door. For the passenger door, I assumed I'd have no such luck finding another, so I set about trying to keep finding a Furio in a breakers, or a 106 Quiksilver that I might be able to raid for parts, and then make some Saxo handles. No joy.
Then, one day a chap restoring some pretty rare VTS' (the massive threads on Detailing World forums) sent me a message, and said he'd seen one on eBay. I looked, and sure enough there it was. Brand new, in packet, for £30!! Totally different seller, but insane luck! Bought.
My missus thinks I'm pathetic. She's probably right, but I don't care. These are EVERYTHING to me now!
Now all I need to do is locate the alloy-buttoned handbrake lever from a very late 106 GTi or Quiksilver, and I've got the full set. I reckon that'll be a bit trickier!
Back to the rust, and the welding was nearly complete, for the engine bay at least. Things got carried away a bit! It turned out that all the sections comprising the monocoque were quite rusted. And that rust had managed to find its way into the seams, causing more than one of the spot welds to let go! Some of the welds in the inner wings were flapping free!
Because of this, I made the decision to seam weld the engine bay. One along the top edge, and one on the opposite side on the adjoining panels. Make two panels one, and eliminate the risks. Front end probably weighs a kg or two more now, and I suspect it's much stiffer, too, but it'll be a total arse if it ever gets into an accident. Sure it'll be stronger than it was before, but it'll also be a nightmare to split panels again!
So, with the engine bay welded up like a racecar, I applied some corrosion inhibitor first:
After which went on a coat of white 2k epoxy mastic:
Once that had set, it was time for epoxy primer, and the top coat of Quartz silver, with clear coat:
You'll notice the lower edge in yet another layer of primer, and also some modifications down by the wishbone mounts. I'd decided to strengthen this area, as I was concerned the shell had rusted so much in 20 years, that it needed all the help it could get to stay as stiff as possible (after all, lithe handling is one of the best things about a Saxo).
It won't win any concours events, but it'll do!
Next up was yet another coat of 2k epoxy mastic for the inners, this time in red (so if I see any bright white, I'll know I've missed a bit!) This coating went on THICK!
Finally, the whole lot was finished in silver, and the shell repairs were done....
....well, from the front doors forwards anyway.
The arches revealed many horrors. More rusted metal was removed, and new metal installed:
Still a fair bit to do underneath, but my focus was to get the arches right at the front.
Nearside front bumper mount wasn't looking (or feeling) clever. Very weak, and partially detached. Might explain the dropped bumper before I took it apart!
Removed the mount, and shotblasted it:
I then made two odd-shaped pieces of tin, and welded them into the mount, before dressing it down to look something like an original one.
Oh yeah, I forgot to take a picture of that bit!
The more I inspected, the more I found. The problem with these Saxos is that it only takes a tiny opening in the underseal to get into trouble. You see a spec of rust, and then you managed to pull a scab off it about 50mm across! Nightmare!
This was all pretty depressing stuff, so I decided to play with some other bits for a while. Priorities evaluated, I decided to change the gearknob. I'd consulted my wife to see which knob she'd prefer (lolz), and she spotted the 106 GTi type, and reckoned it'd be ideal.
The genuine GTi ones were leather (most of them), but we found a cheap alternative on eBay. What's the worst that could happen?
The type she wanted:
What we received:
Oh, it gets better:
I mean, for the money (about a tenner) you can't moan if it turns out a bit crap. I decided to moan anyway, got my money back and threw it away. The seller didn't want it back!
Plan B, then! I'd explained to her that if she wanted an OE type, she was either in the realm of older PSA stuff, or newer stuff. A genuine original could have been sourced at Citroen, but she wasn't keen (they do feel a bit like they're made from a recycled lunchbox, in fairness).
So, I went rogue. I instructed her to trust me, and spent £30 on eBay on a used gearknob & pedal set from a Peugeot 206 CC. I knew this gearknob and the pedals, because they're the same as the ones in my C4 VTS. OE+, AND an upgrade. Swish!
A new insert was ordered, and pushed onto the gearlever until it broke. Another insert was ordered, and this time it was heated up before pressing it onto the lever:
Then the replacement gearknob was pressed onto the insert:
I'm well pleased with that. It's much weightier than the original, so it improves the feel of the throw a bit. I also think it looks pretty OE too, and because it's not plastic, it shouldn't crumble away like the old one.
The pedals will have to wait, but in the interim period, I managed to find some actual goldust!
Ready?
Sure?
I'm still giddy at the sight of them now!
Those, are Saxo Furio interior door handles. The Furio was the model I owned at the top of the page, and though the interior was full of cheap tat, the internal door handles were alloy. No other Saxo seemed to have this (I've seen very late VTS' with them, but don't know if they've been added in at a later date).
The Furio itself was produced from around 2000 (on a W reg) until around 2003 (on a 53 reg). Of all the Furios, the majority had the Westcoast interior, with multi-coloured seatbelts, yellow piping on awful cheap seats, and black plastic everywhere else.
Then the Furio received an update, and yet somehow got even cheaper and nastier. The seats were retrimmed in a much more subtle blue or red hue, with even cheaper plastic piping. The doorcards lost their upholstery completely, and in the cars with blue interiors (blue or white bodywork), they featured a dark blue carpet.
And then, from around late 2001 onwards, they randomly started receiving alloy internal door handles! Totally random!
The pull handle itself was taken from the 106 Quiksilver, and later the GTi. However, the plastic body the handle was in was unique to the Saxo, so it's not like PSA had boxes of these laying around as the number of 106 Quiksilvers being ordered fell by the day! Citroen actually had to specify these.
Ever since, they've been very difficult to find. Even by inputting my old Furio's VIN number into the Citroen parts lookup, only the black plastic handles are shown, as per every other Saxo. However, if you leave the VIN out, you can find the part number for the (now obsolete) alloy handles.
So, a couple of months back, I punched one of the numbers into Google (I used to check semi-regularly) and was amazed to see one listed on eBay, for £30! It was brand new, old stock. Bagged & tagged - the whole bit. I submitted a best offer of £25, waited a few hours, slapped myself really hard and just clicked 'buy it now'. Seriously.....I was haggling over a fiver!
That was the driver's door. For the passenger door, I assumed I'd have no such luck finding another, so I set about trying to keep finding a Furio in a breakers, or a 106 Quiksilver that I might be able to raid for parts, and then make some Saxo handles. No joy.
Then, one day a chap restoring some pretty rare VTS' (the massive threads on Detailing World forums) sent me a message, and said he'd seen one on eBay. I looked, and sure enough there it was. Brand new, in packet, for £30!! Totally different seller, but insane luck! Bought.
My missus thinks I'm pathetic. She's probably right, but I don't care. These are EVERYTHING to me now!
Now all I need to do is locate the alloy-buttoned handbrake lever from a very late 106 GTi or Quiksilver, and I've got the full set. I reckon that'll be a bit trickier!
Back to the rust, and the welding was nearly complete, for the engine bay at least. Things got carried away a bit! It turned out that all the sections comprising the monocoque were quite rusted. And that rust had managed to find its way into the seams, causing more than one of the spot welds to let go! Some of the welds in the inner wings were flapping free!
Because of this, I made the decision to seam weld the engine bay. One along the top edge, and one on the opposite side on the adjoining panels. Make two panels one, and eliminate the risks. Front end probably weighs a kg or two more now, and I suspect it's much stiffer, too, but it'll be a total arse if it ever gets into an accident. Sure it'll be stronger than it was before, but it'll also be a nightmare to split panels again!
So, with the engine bay welded up like a racecar, I applied some corrosion inhibitor first:
After which went on a coat of white 2k epoxy mastic:
Once that had set, it was time for epoxy primer, and the top coat of Quartz silver, with clear coat:
You'll notice the lower edge in yet another layer of primer, and also some modifications down by the wishbone mounts. I'd decided to strengthen this area, as I was concerned the shell had rusted so much in 20 years, that it needed all the help it could get to stay as stiff as possible (after all, lithe handling is one of the best things about a Saxo).
It won't win any concours events, but it'll do!
Next up was yet another coat of 2k epoxy mastic for the inners, this time in red (so if I see any bright white, I'll know I've missed a bit!) This coating went on THICK!
Finally, the whole lot was finished in silver, and the shell repairs were done....
....well, from the front doors forwards anyway.
Brilliant, I think we have all done some variation of the part number lottery.S100HP said:
You spent £60 on door handles? You pay yourself too much.
How much did you spend on your pushbike.......?AndrewGP said:
Me too, very interesting and I love reading threads like this. Front end looks great too, any plans to do the same working backwards?
Yes. The centre floor area needs a fair bit of TLC too, and then all the work I did at the back end a few years back needs looking at again as well! The rear axle is tired, and there's more rust on the inner sills. Luckily it's pretty easy to strip it all apart. That'll have to wait until the summer, though.Just stumbled across this and very pleased I did. I am also afflicted with having a 'thing' for these little french crap-boxes (I am currently on my fourth). I also had a silver 16v '99 VTR for a number of years.
Glad to see your one is getting a lot of love. All of the work will be well worth it once it is all back together and you can enjoy driving it again. I fear mine will be in need of similar rust repairs soon.
I look forward to seeing it finished!
Glad to see your one is getting a lot of love. All of the work will be well worth it once it is all back together and you can enjoy driving it again. I fear mine will be in need of similar rust repairs soon.
I look forward to seeing it finished!
Great thread, I have fond memories of my VTR.
I was in the SSC too! I had a supercharged VTR and went under the handle Well_blown_Robbo (yes I know
)
I remember your name Icey, I used to pretty much live on that forum and ran the SE LAMs.
I need to dig out some pictures of mine and my Max Power article
I was in the SSC too! I had a supercharged VTR and went under the handle Well_blown_Robbo (yes I know
)I remember your name Icey, I used to pretty much live on that forum and ran the SE LAMs.
I need to dig out some pictures of mine and my Max Power article
Quags said:
Great thread, I have fond memories of my VTR.
I was in the SSC too! I had a supercharged VTR and went under the handle Well_blown_Robbo (yes I know )
I remember your name Icey, I used to pretty much live on that forum and ran the SE LAMs.
I need to dig out some pictures of mine and my Max Power article
I remember you!I was in the SSC too! I had a supercharged VTR and went under the handle Well_blown_Robbo (yes I know
)I remember your name Icey, I used to pretty much live on that forum and ran the SE LAMs.
I need to dig out some pictures of mine and my Max Power article
As usual, I'm miles behind updating pretty much every thread I've been running! Except the BX 16v, on account of the fact I haven't seen it for a year.
Anyway, Saxo has progressed quite a lot, so as it's my lunchbreak I'll do my best to run backwards through the pics and remember what the hell I was doing that day!
Putting the bodywork to one side for a bit, there were other issues befitting a 115k mile old Saxo. There were clonks galore from the suspension and steering; the engine liked to randomly cut-out (thankfully not the timing belt snapping again)....oh, the timing belt needs changing (age, not mileage); clutch is HORRIBLE to use, so needs a better one; oil leaks from the rocker covers; intermittent power steering.....yeah, a fair bit.
So, attention turns to the engine, out for the first time since 2009:
In my haste to remove the horrible clutch from the engine which has blighted the car for so long, I decided to also have the flywheel refaced as I wanted a perfect clutch action the next time the car was driven. This meant removing the locating dowels the clutch cover sits on. Normally, these can be extracted using patience, a bit of heat and some mole grips.
Sadly, the Saxo doesn't do 'normally', so I had to drill a hole behind each of the three dowels, and some cheap punches were sacrificed to the gods of seized metals.
But, it worked:
The engine was then locked, so the old timing belt could be removed:
Sadly, I don't possess the correct belt tensioning tool for the TU5J4, and getting it right is critical to cam timing (not mentioned avoiding whining cambelts) so I had to improvise and take a reading!
But then I considered that when I fit the new belt, the engine might not be in exactly the same place:
That should give me a fighting chance of getting the belt right first time!
With the belt removed, I removed the camshaft retaining ladders, which bolt to the top of the head and (you guessed it), retain the camshafts. Citroen/Peugeot, in their infinite wisdom, used a bead of sealant to seal these, which are part of the oil pressure circuit. I also used a bead to seal these last time the cambelt snapped (lol), but my either my bead or my sealant wasn't up to snuff, and oil found its way out onto the exhaust manifold, along with the leaking rocker covers. This was one of the issues I needed to resolve.
I had a good idea where to begin, too. The various rocker cover and cam ladder leaks may well be caused by excess crankcase pressure, though thankfully not a result of borked piston rings. The culprit was closer to home:
That blaaaady pipe! On the J4 engine, the two rocker covers are separated, as opposed to one big cover. The crankcase needs a vacuum pulled on it so the resulting gases from leaked compression are evacuated, otherwise pressure builds up and gaskets (or stty beads of sealant) fail. The rear cover has a vacuum line to the throttle body, but the front cover doesn't. Instead, it has a link pipe, so it can share the vacuum from the rear cover. Sounds good, no?
Well, if that link pipe is leaking, you have a problem. You end up with no vacuum in the front cover, and excess pressure, and the rear cover loses the vacuum the throttle body is pulling due to the leaking pipe, so you also end up with excess pressure, albeit at least has somewhere to go.
And why would that pipe leak?
Ah yes. Because 21 year old spigot in 21 year old engine!
The man from Citroen was approached, and the man from Citroen laughed. So, make a new one, or repair this one, which had compressed and distorted. Erm....
So, a "special tool" was made. This "special tool" was inserted and "activated" in the spigot:
This made the spigot excited, and it got bigger:
The spigot was now a much better fit. In fact, to quote an appropriate phrase from the bible of the Saxo - Max Power magazine - it was "As tight as a nun's chuff."
With a bit of sealant added to make me feel better, it was 'persuaded' into position:
Now, if you think £60 for a pair of door handles on a Saxo worth about £62 (including the door handles) was a bit much, please don't bring yourself to enquire as to what I paid for the contents of this box. Just.....just don't.
In order to fit the contents of said box, I needed to locate the exhaust manifold:
And then I needed to enquire with the manifold as to whether it fancied yielding the five M6 fixings located on it:
It did not.
No matter: We have ways of making it yield:
Once all the existing bolts had been convinced to relieve themselves of redundant duty, new sentinels were deployed in their place, ready to receive the visiting contents from the box of expensiveness:
The lower bracket on the downpipe was also beefed up, as the existing old welds had fractured, and let go of what remained of the pipe. Some electricity and melted metal later, and strength was returned:
Then the postman arrived with a car parts delivery, all the way from Lithuania. Car parts are always great things to receive in the post! I remember the days where I would hit tuning sites such as Needforspeed or Demon Tweaks, rape my credit card and then eagerly await whatever tat I'd decided to bastardise my 1.4 shopping trolley with.
This time, the situation was a reversal, because this time the part was as close to OE as possible (the man from Citroen laughed at me again). A Bosal centre section, which proved impossible to locate in the UK, and at a reasonable £70 delivered. This, along with the OE tail silencer would contribute to a much reduced score on the Saxo vs. chav scum scale.
Still on a high from the prospect of the Saxo no longer sounding like....well, your average Saxo, I reassembled the engine bits that I'd removed:
The cam ladders were refitted with a new type of sealant, which I had higher hopes of success with, on account of it being orange.
I then took a phonecall, got discombobulated, and fitted the cams in the wrong positions, before laying the ladders over the top. Once the mistake was realised, I removed the ladders again, causing the sealant to go all st and wrong.
I decided to adopt an ancient hebrew state of unstress, known only to those wise enough as 'Owphuckett'. Cams were swapped, ladders chucked on top, and I prayed to the gods of ohphuckett that they'd smile down upon my worthless soul, just as they did when I didn't lap in the replacement valves ten years ago.
Before the new timing belt was fitted, I found the water pump (which was only fitted in 2009, covering about 10k miles (at a guess) since) had significant play in the shaft, so an unexpected delay once again became a matter of course.
It gave me an opportunity to pat myself on the back for converting it to waterless coolant, however. Normally, an alloy water pump in a cast iron housing results in a hammer and chisel being the necessary tools for removal, as per 2009. This time, however, the bolts were removed, and the assembly pretty much fell off into my hands! No rust, or scum in sight:
The new timing belt was fitted, as per mybodged precision methods, and the freshly refaced flywheel refitted.
The gods of ohphuckett once again received a call from me, this time pleading that the three small holes I'd drilled weren't enough to throw the flywheel out of balance, and thankfully, they were listening. However, either by negligence, or in an act of extreme trolling, they allowed me to make a fatal error at this point:
('Fatal', as in a bit dramatic and mincey, as opposed to something serious and/or tragic, and loss of life.)
Anyway, Saxo has progressed quite a lot, so as it's my lunchbreak I'll do my best to run backwards through the pics and remember what the hell I was doing that day!
Putting the bodywork to one side for a bit, there were other issues befitting a 115k mile old Saxo. There were clonks galore from the suspension and steering; the engine liked to randomly cut-out (thankfully not the timing belt snapping again)....oh, the timing belt needs changing (age, not mileage); clutch is HORRIBLE to use, so needs a better one; oil leaks from the rocker covers; intermittent power steering.....yeah, a fair bit.
So, attention turns to the engine, out for the first time since 2009:
In my haste to remove the horrible clutch from the engine which has blighted the car for so long, I decided to also have the flywheel refaced as I wanted a perfect clutch action the next time the car was driven. This meant removing the locating dowels the clutch cover sits on. Normally, these can be extracted using patience, a bit of heat and some mole grips.
Sadly, the Saxo doesn't do 'normally', so I had to drill a hole behind each of the three dowels, and some cheap punches were sacrificed to the gods of seized metals.
But, it worked:
The engine was then locked, so the old timing belt could be removed:
Sadly, I don't possess the correct belt tensioning tool for the TU5J4, and getting it right is critical to cam timing (not mentioned avoiding whining cambelts) so I had to improvise and take a reading!
But then I considered that when I fit the new belt, the engine might not be in exactly the same place:
That should give me a fighting chance of getting the belt right first time!
With the belt removed, I removed the camshaft retaining ladders, which bolt to the top of the head and (you guessed it), retain the camshafts. Citroen/Peugeot, in their infinite wisdom, used a bead of sealant to seal these, which are part of the oil pressure circuit. I also used a bead to seal these last time the cambelt snapped (lol), but my either my bead or my sealant wasn't up to snuff, and oil found its way out onto the exhaust manifold, along with the leaking rocker covers. This was one of the issues I needed to resolve.
I had a good idea where to begin, too. The various rocker cover and cam ladder leaks may well be caused by excess crankcase pressure, though thankfully not a result of borked piston rings. The culprit was closer to home:
That blaaaady pipe! On the J4 engine, the two rocker covers are separated, as opposed to one big cover. The crankcase needs a vacuum pulled on it so the resulting gases from leaked compression are evacuated, otherwise pressure builds up and gaskets (or s
tty beads of sealant) fail. The rear cover has a vacuum line to the throttle body, but the front cover doesn't. Instead, it has a link pipe, so it can share the vacuum from the rear cover. Sounds good, no?Well, if that link pipe is leaking, you have a problem. You end up with no vacuum in the front cover, and excess pressure, and the rear cover loses the vacuum the throttle body is pulling due to the leaking pipe, so you also end up with excess pressure, albeit at least has somewhere to go.
And why would that pipe leak?
Ah yes. Because 21 year old spigot in 21 year old engine!
The man from Citroen was approached, and the man from Citroen laughed. So, make a new one, or repair this one, which had compressed and distorted. Erm....
So, a "special tool" was made. This "special tool" was inserted and "activated" in the spigot:
This made the spigot excited, and it got bigger:
The spigot was now a much better fit. In fact, to quote an appropriate phrase from the bible of the Saxo - Max Power magazine - it was "As tight as a nun's chuff."
With a bit of sealant added to make me feel better, it was 'persuaded' into position:
Now, if you think £60 for a pair of door handles on a Saxo worth about £62 (including the door handles) was a bit much, please don't bring yourself to enquire as to what I paid for the contents of this box. Just.....just don't.
In order to fit the contents of said box, I needed to locate the exhaust manifold:
And then I needed to enquire with the manifold as to whether it fancied yielding the five M6 fixings located on it:
It did not.
No matter: We have ways of making it yield:
Once all the existing bolts had been convinced to relieve themselves of redundant duty, new sentinels were deployed in their place, ready to receive the visiting contents from the box of expensiveness:
The lower bracket on the downpipe was also beefed up, as the existing old welds had fractured, and let go of what remained of the pipe. Some electricity and melted metal later, and strength was returned:
Then the postman arrived with a car parts delivery, all the way from Lithuania. Car parts are always great things to receive in the post! I remember the days where I would hit tuning sites such as Needforspeed or Demon Tweaks, rape my credit card and then eagerly await whatever tat I'd decided to bastardise my 1.4 shopping trolley with.
This time, the situation was a reversal, because this time the part was as close to OE as possible (the man from Citroen laughed at me again). A Bosal centre section, which proved impossible to locate in the UK, and at a reasonable £70 delivered. This, along with the OE tail silencer would contribute to a much reduced score on the Saxo vs. chav scum scale.
Still on a high from the prospect of the Saxo no longer sounding like....well, your average Saxo, I reassembled the engine bits that I'd removed:
The cam ladders were refitted with a new type of sealant, which I had higher hopes of success with, on account of it being orange.
I then took a phonecall, got discombobulated, and fitted the cams in the wrong positions, before laying the ladders over the top. Once the mistake was realised, I removed the ladders again, causing the sealant to go all s
t and wrong.I decided to adopt an ancient hebrew state of unstress, known only to those wise enough as 'Owphuckett'. Cams were swapped, ladders chucked on top, and I prayed to the gods of ohphuckett that they'd smile down upon my worthless soul, just as they did when I didn't lap in the replacement valves ten years ago.
Before the new timing belt was fitted, I found the water pump (which was only fitted in 2009, covering about 10k miles (at a guess) since) had significant play in the shaft, so an unexpected delay once again became a matter of course.
It gave me an opportunity to pat myself on the back for converting it to waterless coolant, however. Normally, an alloy water pump in a cast iron housing results in a hammer and chisel being the necessary tools for removal, as per 2009. This time, however, the bolts were removed, and the assembly pretty much fell off into my hands! No rust, or scum in sight:
The new timing belt was fitted, as per my
The gods of ohphuckett once again received a call from me, this time pleading that the three small holes I'd drilled weren't enough to throw the flywheel out of balance, and thankfully, they were listening. However, either by negligence, or in an act of extreme trolling, they allowed me to make a fatal error at this point:
('Fatal', as in a bit dramatic and mincey, as opposed to something serious and/or tragic, and loss of life.)
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