My brave pill: E92 BMW 335i with the infamous N54 engine
Discussion
Right, I am officially at the end of my tether.
It definitely feels like I’m being given the runs round by my dealer; I was told last week that he was submitting the pre-authorisation for the repair on Friday afternoon. He was hoping to hear back on Saturday morning, Monday at the latest. He was apparently continuing to chase them this week.
I’ve since spoken to the claims team of the BMW Insured warranty and they have no record of anything being submitted against me car. I noticed on the repair estimate issued to me this morning that they were using the cars original reg, not my private plate. I started to think that this was because of the cock up details with the warranty. I dropped the service advisor an email since he wasn’t available when I called again this afternoon.
Turns out, he hasn’t submitted anything for approval yet. Instead he’s emailed a colleague in the internal warranty team to check if this sort of repair would be covered! Apparently because there is no definitive diagnosis because the vehicle has not been stripped to inspect the components that they believe are at fault.
I am now absolutely raging; he’s talking out of his arse basically.
I’m so fed up that I’m getting ever more tempted to take a pretty big hit and just get rid of the f
king car. I’m trying to minimise how much I use it because it’s pretty desperate for an oil service and I don’t want to exceed that and of give any excuse for a warranty claim to be rejected. P,us, there’s a known / provisionally diagnosed issue that I don’t want to make worse.
This in turn means I can’t go into the office or attend upcoming site meetings.
My local indy is booked until the end of the month, and Rybrook are now taking bookings for the week after next. My patience and energy / willingness to get this sorted are well and truly running out.
It definitely feels like I’m being given the runs round by my dealer; I was told last week that he was submitting the pre-authorisation for the repair on Friday afternoon. He was hoping to hear back on Saturday morning, Monday at the latest. He was apparently continuing to chase them this week.
I’ve since spoken to the claims team of the BMW Insured warranty and they have no record of anything being submitted against me car. I noticed on the repair estimate issued to me this morning that they were using the cars original reg, not my private plate. I started to think that this was because of the cock up details with the warranty. I dropped the service advisor an email since he wasn’t available when I called again this afternoon.
Turns out, he hasn’t submitted anything for approval yet. Instead he’s emailed a colleague in the internal warranty team to check if this sort of repair would be covered! Apparently because there is no definitive diagnosis because the vehicle has not been stripped to inspect the components that they believe are at fault.
I am now absolutely raging; he’s talking out of his arse basically.
I’m so fed up that I’m getting ever more tempted to take a pretty big hit and just get rid of the f
king car. I’m trying to minimise how much I use it because it’s pretty desperate for an oil service and I don’t want to exceed that and of give any excuse for a warranty claim to be rejected. P,us, there’s a known / provisionally diagnosed issue that I don’t want to make worse.This in turn means I can’t go into the office or attend upcoming site meetings.
My local indy is booked until the end of the month, and Rybrook are now taking bookings for the week after next. My patience and energy / willingness to get this sorted are well and truly running out.
Edited by Court_S on Wednesday 11th January 16:02
I feel your frustration. This is exactly the kind of situation where a warranty should step in and take care of everything. If you're not paying for peace of mind when a non-consumable part of your car fails, then what are you paying for?
I've been there where I've been tempted to take the hit and walk away from a car, despite knowing it's the wrong choice but in the heat of the moment sometimes it's the easier (albeit expensive) choice. I hope you can see it through and get it sorted under the warranty that surely will cover the cost of this, preferably without much more of this utter incompetence.
I've been there where I've been tempted to take the hit and walk away from a car, despite knowing it's the wrong choice but in the heat of the moment sometimes it's the easier (albeit expensive) choice. I hope you can see it through and get it sorted under the warranty that surely will cover the cost of this, preferably without much more of this utter incompetence.
I feel for you - this is an absolute 'mare.
Annoyingly (and I've had this experience myself), it's not actually the main warranty process that's at fault here - it's just the insane way that you have to interact with it via the dealer. I've no idea why they make this (and so many other things) so painful.
It was the same the last time I took my car into BMW. You can't speak to the techs - you have to go through the customer service person who never calls back (and if they do, and you're busy, just leaves a message with no details asking you to call back, which you do, and they're busy with a customer, so you leave a message to call back etc etc etc).
So many other industries have moved to asynchronous online messaging and it's brilliant. I write something, they read it when they can and reply, I read it when I can and reply. No stress. Record of all conversations. Everyone knows where they are. But car dealerships are stuck in the dark ages.
However, none of this changes that you've paid for a warranty in good faith and you should be getting the service you've paid for. Complain - loudly and vigourously.
Annoyingly (and I've had this experience myself), it's not actually the main warranty process that's at fault here - it's just the insane way that you have to interact with it via the dealer. I've no idea why they make this (and so many other things) so painful.
It was the same the last time I took my car into BMW. You can't speak to the techs - you have to go through the customer service person who never calls back (and if they do, and you're busy, just leaves a message with no details asking you to call back, which you do, and they're busy with a customer, so you leave a message to call back etc etc etc).
So many other industries have moved to asynchronous online messaging and it's brilliant. I write something, they read it when they can and reply, I read it when I can and reply. No stress. Record of all conversations. Everyone knows where they are. But car dealerships are stuck in the dark ages.
However, none of this changes that you've paid for a warranty in good faith and you should be getting the service you've paid for. Complain - loudly and vigourously.
Partly why i dropped the insured warranty. It wasn't the warranty, but the stupid gatekeeping by my local sytner.
As you now mention it, i had the exact same thing - they had an internal warranty team - i *think* i remember discovering that there is a limit to how much they can push through the warranty without them tipping over some threshold, and it had something to do with hourly rates paid out by the warranty being peanuts vs. the retail hourly rate.
I would (and did) take the approach via the insured warranty and state that they need to help convince the dealer because you've paid for a warranty and its not being honoured. When i spoke to the warranty guy (can probably get his name) at BMW Insured Warranty he was really helpful and phoned the dealer directly on my behalf. When i got to the dealer, the wky little advisor tried to spin it as the dealer deciding to help me out and do the work - set him straight on that 
.
Also to add partly why these engines and n53 engines get a bad rep is because of incompetent dealers. They are needy engines but need someone who actually knows where they are doing too, which is sadly where bmw dealers fall down. I lost a lot of respect for the brand because of the dealers.
Just looked at the driveline terms - it does cover internal engine components and valve gear. That said, if the dealer is not confident in their diagnosis, that is probably why they are limiting their exposure. On the flipside, you are not the expert, they are. The insured warranty must provided some resolution/mediation here, and the dealer is diagnosing X and its covered, the warranty should pay. The dealer must be made to make a decision on the diagsnosis - ripping the engine to bits to determine that is fraught with risk for you (tolerances, wear and tear) and speaks of incompetence that they cannot diagnose it by looking at engine codes/oil pressure etc.
As you now mention it, i had the exact same thing - they had an internal warranty team - i *think* i remember discovering that there is a limit to how much they can push through the warranty without them tipping over some threshold, and it had something to do with hourly rates paid out by the warranty being peanuts vs. the retail hourly rate.
I would (and did) take the approach via the insured warranty and state that they need to help convince the dealer because you've paid for a warranty and its not being honoured. When i spoke to the warranty guy (can probably get his name) at BMW Insured Warranty he was really helpful and phoned the dealer directly on my behalf. When i got to the dealer, the w
ky little advisor tried to spin it as the dealer deciding to help me out and do the work - set him straight on that .Also to add partly why these engines and n53 engines get a bad rep is because of incompetent dealers. They are needy engines but need someone who actually knows where they are doing too, which is sadly where bmw dealers fall down. I lost a lot of respect for the brand because of the dealers.
Just looked at the driveline terms - it does cover internal engine components and valve gear. That said, if the dealer is not confident in their diagnosis, that is probably why they are limiting their exposure. On the flipside, you are not the expert, they are. The insured warranty must provided some resolution/mediation here, and the dealer is diagnosing X and its covered, the warranty should pay. The dealer must be made to make a decision on the diagsnosis - ripping the engine to bits to determine that is fraught with risk for you (tolerances, wear and tear) and speaks of incompetence that they cannot diagnose it by looking at engine codes/oil pressure etc.
Edited by bmwmike on Wednesday 11th January 16:55
Agreed with the above comments. Bloody crap service from the dealer, but I’d keep the car and send it to the other dealer. If someone isn’t doing their job, I’d sack them off having given multiple chances. I would also email a head of customer service, and copy in someone at BMW UK and the dealer principal to get your point across. This isn’t hard, and you don’t buy such a car, and warrant it with BMW to be given a run around, with people telling you they’ll do their job, and then not do it.
I do hope for a good resolution for you, but don’t lost the faith. This can be fixed, and it can be fixed without your wallet being melted. The warranty should pick this up, and a good dealer should turn it around nice and quickly.
I do hope for a good resolution for you, but don’t lost the faith. This can be fixed, and it can be fixed without your wallet being melted. The warranty should pick this up, and a good dealer should turn it around nice and quickly.
MDifficult said:
I feel for you - this is an absolute 'mare.
Annoyingly (and I've had this experience myself), it's not actually the main warranty process that's at fault here - it's just the insane way that you have to interact with it via the dealer. I've no idea why they make this (and so many other things) so painful.
It was the same the last time I took my car into BMW. You can't speak to the techs - you have to go through the customer service person who never calls back (and if they do, and you're busy, just leaves a message with no details asking you to call back, which you do, and they're busy with a customer, so you leave a message to call back etc etc etc).
So many other industries have moved to asynchronous online messaging and it's brilliant. I write something, they read it when they can and reply, I read it when I can and reply. No stress. Record of all conversations. Everyone knows where they are. But car dealerships are stuck in the dark ages.
However, none of this changes that you've paid for a warranty in good faith and you should be getting the service you've paid for. Complain - loudly and vigourously.
Agree that the communication with the dealer is painful - even in this particular dealership it is painful with the service team locked away behind a glass screen. They only appear once a receptionist has let them know you are there. Booking in is via a central call centre who aren't much cop either - when I booked my M140i in for a service, I rocked up at the date and time I'd booked and the service team had no record of the booking.Annoyingly (and I've had this experience myself), it's not actually the main warranty process that's at fault here - it's just the insane way that you have to interact with it via the dealer. I've no idea why they make this (and so many other things) so painful.
It was the same the last time I took my car into BMW. You can't speak to the techs - you have to go through the customer service person who never calls back (and if they do, and you're busy, just leaves a message with no details asking you to call back, which you do, and they're busy with a customer, so you leave a message to call back etc etc etc).
So many other industries have moved to asynchronous online messaging and it's brilliant. I write something, they read it when they can and reply, I read it when I can and reply. No stress. Record of all conversations. Everyone knows where they are. But car dealerships are stuck in the dark ages.
However, none of this changes that you've paid for a warranty in good faith and you should be getting the service you've paid for. Complain - loudly and vigourously.
At least your service advisor called you! At least with the emails I get, there is a written record.
bmwmike said:
Partly why i dropped the insured warranty. It wasn't the warranty, but the stupid gatekeeping by my local sytner.
As you now mention it, i had the exact same thing - they had an internal warranty team - i *think* i remember discovering that there is a limit to how much they can push through the warranty without them tipping over some threshold, and it had something to do with hourly rates paid out by the warranty being peanuts vs. the retail hourly rate.
I would (and did) take the approach via the insured warranty and state that they need to help convince the dealer because you've paid for a warranty and its not being honoured. When i spoke to the warranty guy (can probably get his name) at BMW Insured Warranty he was really helpful and phoned the dealer directly on my behalf. When i got to the dealer, the wky little advisor tried to spin it as the dealer deciding to help me out and do the work - set him straight on that .
Also to add partly why these engines and n53 engines get a bad rep is because of incompetent dealers. They are needy engines but need someone who actually knows where they are doing too, which is sadly where bmw dealers fall down. I lost a lot of respect for the brand because of the dealers.
Just looked at the driveline terms - it does cover internal engine components and valve gear. That said, if the dealer is not confident in their diagnosis, that is probably why they are limiting their exposure. On the flipside, you are not the expert, they are. The insured warranty must provided some resolution/mediation here, and the dealer is diagnosing X and its covered, the warranty should pay. The dealer must be made to make a decision on the diagsnosis - ripping the engine to bits to determine that is fraught with risk for you (tolerances, wear and tear) and speaks of incompetence that they cannot diagnose it by looking at engine codes/oil pressure etc.
Yeah, the gatekeeping is a nightmare. My interactions with the Insured Warranty team have been pretty good - they're helpful and will be my next port of call I think.As you now mention it, i had the exact same thing - they had an internal warranty team - i *think* i remember discovering that there is a limit to how much they can push through the warranty without them tipping over some threshold, and it had something to do with hourly rates paid out by the warranty being peanuts vs. the retail hourly rate.
I would (and did) take the approach via the insured warranty and state that they need to help convince the dealer because you've paid for a warranty and its not being honoured. When i spoke to the warranty guy (can probably get his name) at BMW Insured Warranty he was really helpful and phoned the dealer directly on my behalf. When i got to the dealer, the w
ky little advisor tried to spin it as the dealer deciding to help me out and do the work - set him straight on that .Also to add partly why these engines and n53 engines get a bad rep is because of incompetent dealers. They are needy engines but need someone who actually knows where they are doing too, which is sadly where bmw dealers fall down. I lost a lot of respect for the brand because of the dealers.
Just looked at the driveline terms - it does cover internal engine components and valve gear. That said, if the dealer is not confident in their diagnosis, that is probably why they are limiting their exposure. On the flipside, you are not the expert, they are. The insured warranty must provided some resolution/mediation here, and the dealer is diagnosing X and its covered, the warranty should pay. The dealer must be made to make a decision on the diagsnosis - ripping the engine to bits to determine that is fraught with risk for you (tolerances, wear and tear) and speaks of incompetence that they cannot diagnose it by looking at engine codes/oil pressure etc.
Edited by bmwmike on Wednesday 11th January 16:55
The retail hourly rates are a piss take - looking through the detailed estimate they are claiming £94 plus VAT in labour alone to replace the VANOS solenoids! It's two electrical connections and two 10mm bolts!
These are old engines now that need some love by people who understand them and I'm guessing most of the current techs haven't seen one before. They seem much more geared up to carry out generic maintenance like oil changes than actually digging into stuff. I guess I'm a pain in the arse customer because I have a bit of an understanding as to the issues with the engine and know what the codes are and what may or mat not be causing it. They had the car for a whole day to diagnose it with codes etc. And top matters off, the guy working on the car over tightened part of the air intake it and snapped a piece off. I'm still waiting for a replacement.
JakeT said:
Agreed with the above comments. Bloody crap service from the dealer, but I’d keep the car and send it to the other dealer. If someone isn’t doing their job, I’d sack them off having given multiple chances. I would also email a head of customer service, and copy in someone at BMW UK and the dealer principal to get your point across. This isn’t hard, and you don’t buy such a car, and warrant it with BMW to be given a run around, with people telling you they’ll do their job, and then not do it.
I do hope for a good resolution for you, but don’t lost the faith. This can be fixed, and it can be fixed without your wallet being melted. The warranty should pick this up, and a good dealer should turn it around nice and quickly.
It's starting to look more and more like I need to book it in elsewhere - Rybrook may well be the option given that I have had a positive experience in the past. It's telling that the previous owner, who lived a few miles from me, went out of his way to use Warwick for servicing and repair rather than the nearest dealer.I do hope for a good resolution for you, but don’t lost the faith. This can be fixed, and it can be fixed without your wallet being melted. The warranty should pick this up, and a good dealer should turn it around nice and quickly.
So, we have profess of sorts today.
I spoke to Rybrook Warwick who are now booked up until the end of the month within two days! Yikes.
So it looks like I’m stuck with my local dealer. I phoned again today and managed to get though to the service advisor. When the receptionist said she’d see if he was available I said that I wasn’t holding my breath after being told all week that he’s with a customer or away from his desk. It worked though….
It seems like I’m in between a rock and a hard place with the warranty team needing to see pictures of the damage that has been diagnosed and that not being possible until the car is stripped. I’m therefore taking on a element of risk by getting the car booked on the proviso that the cost to strip sits with me of the claim is rejected.
The date is TBC because I’ve asked for them to try an wangle a car on my behalf because not being able to use my car is starting to wear thin. Apparently he’ll know what cars are available at short notice tomorrow.
I’m still sure that the claim is valid; the policy document states that the policy covers all internally lubricated parts including my cams and bearings. Given the amount the car ticks at idle and that the intake error has remained despite swapping the solenoids, replacing the solenoids and fuel filter cap it is most likely that the steel seals have worn a groove into the intake cam bearing letting oil escape.
The one thing that I would like to understand is the cost difference between just investigating the intake side and investigate the exhaust side given that my error codes just relate to the intake and therefore I imagine the warranty would only cover costs associated with opening up that side.
I spoke to Rybrook Warwick who are now booked up until the end of the month within two days! Yikes.
So it looks like I’m stuck with my local dealer. I phoned again today and managed to get though to the service advisor. When the receptionist said she’d see if he was available I said that I wasn’t holding my breath after being told all week that he’s with a customer or away from his desk. It worked though….
It seems like I’m in between a rock and a hard place with the warranty team needing to see pictures of the damage that has been diagnosed and that not being possible until the car is stripped. I’m therefore taking on a element of risk by getting the car booked on the proviso that the cost to strip sits with me of the claim is rejected.
The date is TBC because I’ve asked for them to try an wangle a car on my behalf because not being able to use my car is starting to wear thin. Apparently he’ll know what cars are available at short notice tomorrow.
I’m still sure that the claim is valid; the policy document states that the policy covers all internally lubricated parts including my cams and bearings. Given the amount the car ticks at idle and that the intake error has remained despite swapping the solenoids, replacing the solenoids and fuel filter cap it is most likely that the steel seals have worn a groove into the intake cam bearing letting oil escape.
The one thing that I would like to understand is the cost difference between just investigating the intake side and investigate the exhaust side given that my error codes just relate to the intake and therefore I imagine the warranty would only cover costs associated with opening up that side.
Sam, I feel your pain. I know someone who is a good customer of your local BMW dealer when it comes to buying cars & yet he won’t let them service them....he takes them instead to their Mini dealership around the corner as they offer better levels of service etc.!!
I’d be asking the service agent if you’re going to be getting a refund for the taking the engine apart once they find the fault as surely the warranty company will have to have the engine opened up to fix it & the dealer won’t put it back together until they fix it?!
Once you’ve got it fixed, I hope you find a local BMW specialist who’ll service it & who can still do the warranty work if you ever need it in the future! Don’t lose faith as you appear to be starting to make progress at last.
I’d be asking the service agent if you’re going to be getting a refund for the taking the engine apart once they find the fault as surely the warranty company will have to have the engine opened up to fix it & the dealer won’t put it back together until they fix it?!
Once you’ve got it fixed, I hope you find a local BMW specialist who’ll service it & who can still do the warranty work if you ever need it in the future! Don’t lose faith as you appear to be starting to make progress at last.
MrC986 said:
Sam, I feel your pain. I know someone who is a good customer of your local BMW dealer when it comes to buying cars & yet he won’t let them service them....he takes them instead to their Mini dealership around the corner as they offer better levels of service etc.!!
I’d be asking the service agent if you’re going to be getting a refund for the taking the engine apart once they find the fault as surely the warranty company will have to have the engine opened up to fix it & the dealer won’t put it back together until they fix it?!
Once you’ve got it fixed, I hope you find a local BMW specialist who’ll service it & who can still do the warranty work if you ever need it in the future! Don’t lose faith as you appear to be starting to make progress at last.
They can certainly be hardwork, as I’ve discovered the hard way! I’ve not had the best experience with the MINI dealership for sales or service whereas Nottingham were fantastic. I guess it depends a lot on the person you are dealing with.I’d be asking the service agent if you’re going to be getting a refund for the taking the engine apart once they find the fault as surely the warranty company will have to have the engine opened up to fix it & the dealer won’t put it back together until they fix it?!
Once you’ve got it fixed, I hope you find a local BMW specialist who’ll service it & who can still do the warranty work if you ever need it in the future! Don’t lose faith as you appear to be starting to make progress at last.
I’ll only be on the hook for the strip / rebuild if the claim is rejected. I’m trying to decide if it’s worth telling them to just focus on the intake side given that’s where the error codes are pointing. My concern is that they want to strip the exhaust side as well. I guess that’s something to discuss with them on the day.
Court_S said:
The one thing that I would like to understand is the cost difference between just investigating the intake side and investigate the exhaust side given that my error codes just relate to the intake and therefore I imagine the warranty would only cover costs associated with opening up that side.
If they only take out the intake side, you'll save on 15nr cam bolts @ £1 each and 2x teflon seals @ £4 each would be my guess, plus an hour saved on labour. Plus of course the ~£500 for the cam tray itself, which may not even be damaged. They will still need to take the valve cover off, lock off the timing, take off the timing chain etc to just do 1nr cam tray.A compromise would be get the intake cam tray replaced, but then also get the teflon seals onto the exhaust side. You'll be spending ~£150 in parts & labour for them to remove the exhaust side, swap over to a teflon seal, and re-fit with new cam tray bolts, but you would be saving the ~£500 part cost by not replacing the exhaust side cam tray itself - unless of course that is damaged too.
christhreadgill said:
If they only take out the intake side, you'll save on 15nr cam bolts @ £1 each and 2x teflon seals @ £4 each would be my guess, plus an hour saved on labour. Plus of course the ~£500 for the cam tray itself, which may not even be damaged. They will still need to take the valve cover off, lock off the timing, take off the timing chain etc to just do 1nr cam tray.
A compromise would be get the intake cam tray replaced, but then also get the teflon seals onto the exhaust side. You'll be spending ~£150 in parts & labour for them to remove the exhaust side, swap over to a teflon seal, and re-fit with new cam tray bolts, but you would be saving the ~£500 part cost by not replacing the exhaust side cam tray itself - unless of course that is damaged too.
I’m probably overthinking it, but just don’t want to give the warranty any excuse to reject the claim especially as it’s just the intake side that is chucking up errors.A compromise would be get the intake cam tray replaced, but then also get the teflon seals onto the exhaust side. You'll be spending ~£150 in parts & labour for them to remove the exhaust side, swap over to a teflon seal, and re-fit with new cam tray bolts, but you would be saving the ~£500 part cost by not replacing the exhaust side cam tray itself - unless of course that is damaged too.
I’ll talk to them.
The good news is that a service manager has called me this morning because the insured warranty team have contacted them to see what is going on.
bmwmike said:
Fingers crossed the insured warranty team have your back and kick the dealer into action.
Hopefully; they’ve been more helpful so far than the dealer…..and easier to get hold of! 
Just waiting on a date now depending on the availability of cars (I did say that they’re welcome to pop me in something nice…..).
Sytner may well be on the slow path to redemption….
They’ve actually contacted me twice this morning without being prompted! Once by a service manager just to clarify the process / potential risk for me in the event the claim is rejected and again by the advisor who I have been dealing with to arrange a date etc.
The car is booked on for first thing next Wednesday and I’m being given a 5 series touring of sone sort (unless it gets nabbed). They’ve booked me into that for a week to allow tome for the strip, sending off pics and hopefully getting approval, ordering parts and fixing the damn thing. Fingers crossed.
They’ve actually contacted me twice this morning without being prompted! Once by a service manager just to clarify the process / potential risk for me in the event the claim is rejected and again by the advisor who I have been dealing with to arrange a date etc.
The car is booked on for first thing next Wednesday and I’m being given a 5 series touring of sone sort (unless it gets nabbed). They’ve booked me into that for a week to allow tome for the strip, sending off pics and hopefully getting approval, ordering parts and fixing the damn thing. Fingers crossed.
cerb4.5lee said:
It is positive to read that things are moving forward for you now Sam. Good luck going forward too. 
Cheers Lee.I hope it gets sorted relatively pain free now. The car has done just under 89k, has a full BMW history at one of two dealers; Sytner and Rybrook Warwick. It’s been under a BMW warranty of some sort it’s entire life. Hopefully that’ll help somewhat.
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