Mercedes 129 titivation
Discussion
dme123 said:
r129sl said:
It is a year since I started monitoring costs and usage using the Road Trip App.
8,826miles
22.43mpg
Fuel £2,008.44 (22.5p per mile, £5.67 per day)
Service/maintenance.expenses £2,946.35
Total £4,954.79 (57p per mile, £14 per day)
Fairly horrifying given the mileage, but it includes £1,000 on bodywork, four new tyres and a bug service at the main dealer, as well as road tax and insurance.
That is pretty horrendous. To give a comparison with something mundane and efficient my 2008 Volvo C70 D5 has averaged 26p a mile including fuel (43mpg), servicing, repairs, insurance, and road tax over 2 years and 50k miles. It's had a remap, clutch, all new dampers, front wishbones, AC condenser, 10 tyres, and a timing belt change in that.8,826miles
22.43mpg
Fuel £2,008.44 (22.5p per mile, £5.67 per day)
Service/maintenance.expenses £2,946.35
Total £4,954.79 (57p per mile, £14 per day)
Fairly horrifying given the mileage, but it includes £1,000 on bodywork, four new tyres and a bug service at the main dealer, as well as road tax and insurance.
I changed this car's differential oil tonight. This is a new job for me involving two new things, working under the car for prolonged periods and working with my new fluid pump. It all went well enough and only took an hour. The ball aches were getting the car up on stands (as usual), getting access to the fill plug (always remove the fill plug first) and the drain plug and then the physicality of it all (for a desk-driving weakling like me). The drain plugs were a bit rust and dirt encrusted so most of the time was spent cleaning them up. Access is very tight with strut braces and exhaust pipes and electrical conduits right where you don't need them to be.
Anyway, my objective was to investigate a rear end whine. The old diff oil was black but there did not seem to be a lot of metallic particles in it. There also seemed to be roughly the right amount of the stuff present (1.6litres). The new oil is clear straw colour. Both oils smell revolting. The noise is still there and the car feels no different but at least I know that there is fresh fluid at the right level in there.
I used this helpful guide: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-...
The rear end whine will need further investigation after my holiday. I'm guessing a diff rebuild will be getting up to four figures with new bearings so if funds are plentiful (which they never are) I may spring for the Quaife LSD. I'm not an over-steering wild man by any stretch of the imagination but I like the idea of better traction generally. I can't think of a downside. https://shop.quaife.co.uk/quaife-mercedes-limited-...
Anyway, my objective was to investigate a rear end whine. The old diff oil was black but there did not seem to be a lot of metallic particles in it. There also seemed to be roughly the right amount of the stuff present (1.6litres). The new oil is clear straw colour. Both oils smell revolting. The noise is still there and the car feels no different but at least I know that there is fresh fluid at the right level in there.
I used this helpful guide: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-...
The rear end whine will need further investigation after my holiday. I'm guessing a diff rebuild will be getting up to four figures with new bearings so if funds are plentiful (which they never are) I may spring for the Quaife LSD. I'm not an over-steering wild man by any stretch of the imagination but I like the idea of better traction generally. I can't think of a downside. https://shop.quaife.co.uk/quaife-mercedes-limited-...
Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 10th August 21:31
£1,400 fitted, although presumably I'll have to get my local man to remove and refit the housing, so more like £1,600. It could do with new front arms, too: another £700.
I managed to get diff oil, used and new, in my hair. I'm so useless at everything. Shamooing with Fairy liquid did the trick, for anyone as cack-handed as me who does this in future. I hope it doesn't rain or I'll have a hat of suds.
I managed to get diff oil, used and new, in my hair. I'm so useless at everything. Shamooing with Fairy liquid did the trick, for anyone as cack-handed as me who does this in future. I hope it doesn't rain or I'll have a hat of suds.
This car has seen some hard service lately, stepping up to provide family transport in the temporary absence of the 124. It copes admirably with the school run and it has also carried me and my wife on a couple of very fast return trips to Leeds, about 120miles or so in 1hr45. It's the perfect car for such duties with plenty of pick up in the crucial 60 to 120 range but really good refinement. The current mileage is 258,300-odd.
All this use has taken its toll however. The diff gets worse, to the point that I am seriously worried about it. Baister diagnosed worn bearings today. Now, a new diff is £3,000, so that is not happening. His advice was to source a decent used diff, maybe £250. And, let's face it, it is likely to be a lot less worn than mine. I am investigating rebuilds, but I think used is the right route. If so, before the new used part goes in the car, it will get a full service with new seals.
The fan clutch is bust. That's two out of three cars with this problem. A new Merc item is £235; Sachs is £185; and Febi is available at £58. I'm afraid I have plumped for the Febi item.
The off side cat has started to rattle ever so slightly. £663 from Merc, simply too much money at the moment. Genuine Auto Parts are offering a Merc item for £348.57 so I will just have to bite that bullet.
And, finally, the dynamic levelling on the xenon lights is bust. A bad front level sensor. £117 from Merc, I happily found a brand new one on eBay for £45. I'll have a go at fitting this myself.
That still leaves front lower control arms... but they will have to wait.They are £293 each at Merc, although I see TRW (owned by ZF Group) offer them at £146 each. Any views on TRW?
In the meantime, I am going to take routine maintenance—fluids and filters and such like—"in house" as on the other cars, leaving MB Newcastle to do an annual service for the sake of the book stamp and the Mobilo warranty.
All this use has taken its toll however. The diff gets worse, to the point that I am seriously worried about it. Baister diagnosed worn bearings today. Now, a new diff is £3,000, so that is not happening. His advice was to source a decent used diff, maybe £250. And, let's face it, it is likely to be a lot less worn than mine. I am investigating rebuilds, but I think used is the right route. If so, before the new used part goes in the car, it will get a full service with new seals.
The fan clutch is bust. That's two out of three cars with this problem. A new Merc item is £235; Sachs is £185; and Febi is available at £58. I'm afraid I have plumped for the Febi item.
The off side cat has started to rattle ever so slightly. £663 from Merc, simply too much money at the moment. Genuine Auto Parts are offering a Merc item for £348.57 so I will just have to bite that bullet.
And, finally, the dynamic levelling on the xenon lights is bust. A bad front level sensor. £117 from Merc, I happily found a brand new one on eBay for £45. I'll have a go at fitting this myself.
That still leaves front lower control arms... but they will have to wait.They are £293 each at Merc, although I see TRW (owned by ZF Group) offer them at £146 each. Any views on TRW?
In the meantime, I am going to take routine maintenance—fluids and filters and such like—"in house" as on the other cars, leaving MB Newcastle to do an annual service for the sake of the book stamp and the Mobilo warranty.
Edited by r129sl on Friday 23 September 20:49
Tell me about it. But...
The 124 is nearly repaired and will be better than ever. The new bonnet is a lot better than the old and I've always wanted to tidy up the slam panel. It'll have a totally new cooling system. It will be fitter than it has been for a long while.
The 190 is not as bad as I thought. It'll only need a day with the Man and 200 magic fix it tokens. Whether we retrofit the air con is another matter. Now the weather is back to its s
tty northern norm, that project is distinctly back-burnered.
And if I can get the 129 over this rough ground, it should be good for five years and 100,000miles.
But it really is fking killing me at the moment. Thanks for the sympathy.
PS: did you get anywhere with Stanley Sedgwick?
The 124 is nearly repaired and will be better than ever. The new bonnet is a lot better than the old and I've always wanted to tidy up the slam panel. It'll have a totally new cooling system. It will be fitter than it has been for a long while.
The 190 is not as bad as I thought. It'll only need a day with the Man and 200 magic fix it tokens. Whether we retrofit the air con is another matter. Now the weather is back to its s
tty northern norm, that project is distinctly back-burnered.And if I can get the 129 over this rough ground, it should be good for five years and 100,000miles.
But it really is f
king killing me at the moment. Thanks for the sympathy.PS: did you get anywhere with Stanley Sedgwick?
Edited by r129sl on Friday 23 September 21:20
Brief update. The differential is out and being rebuilt with new bearings, new seals and a new breather. The bearings were completely shot. The pinion and crown wheel are fine. It is with this chap, who seems extremely affable: http://gearboxrepair-newcastle.co.uk
I should get it back on Tuesday or Wednesday. Then it needs a new fan clutch (bit of a theme with my cars at the moment) and a new headlamp front level sensor. I'll do those myself with the help of my boys over half term.
I should get it back on Tuesday or Wednesday. Then it needs a new fan clutch (bit of a theme with my cars at the moment) and a new headlamp front level sensor. I'll do those myself with the help of my boys over half term.
Got the car back today. Not good. I noticed a deep, low humming at speed (like, 90 plus) and a stench of oil when stationary. I looked underneath and the newly rebuilt diff has a massive leak. Up on stands, check the oil level and there is none in. Not good at all. I think it is leaking from the (new) left side seal. We'll see what he says tomorrow but I'm a bit hacked off.
I spoke to my regular mechanic and he assures me the gearbox man is reliable.
It required approximately 600ml of fluid to bring it up to level (capacity is 1.6litres). That's after 40miles' driving. I'll see what he says tomorrow but I am thinking of trucking it there rather than driving another 30miles with fluid pissing out.
Needless to say, I have got the disgusting stuff in my hair again.
Edit: I had another look at it just now and there is none on the garage floor and no more on the diff casing. I could see a lot higher up the diff and on the underside of the car, so I suspect the new breather that was fitted is no good. Which is a bit tedious because the diff has to come out to fit a new new breather.
It required approximately 600ml of fluid to bring it up to level (capacity is 1.6litres). That's after 40miles' driving. I'll see what he says tomorrow but I am thinking of trucking it there rather than driving another 30miles with fluid pissing out.
Needless to say, I have got the disgusting stuff in my hair again.
Edit: I had another look at it just now and there is none on the garage floor and no more on the diff casing. I could see a lot higher up the diff and on the underside of the car, so I suspect the new breather that was fitted is no good. Which is a bit tedious because the diff has to come out to fit a new new breather.
Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 26th October 22:14
An update.
Gearbox man removed the diff and found there was no staining on the breather side: it was all on the other side. On turning the diff upside down, oil came out of the casing. Not from a seam or join but from a series of small holes caused by corrosion. So he has been stripped it, cleaned it, repaired the holes, re-assembled it and tested that it is leakfast, and it is. Now I would have taken all this with a pinch of salt but for the fact that he refuses to charge for the additional work.
Gearbox man removed the diff and found there was no staining on the breather side: it was all on the other side. On turning the diff upside down, oil came out of the casing. Not from a seam or join but from a series of small holes caused by corrosion. So he has been stripped it, cleaned it, repaired the holes, re-assembled it and tested that it is leakfast, and it is. Now I would have taken all this with a pinch of salt but for the fact that he refuses to charge for the additional work.
Annual service today at 262,243 miles. Cost was a grand total of £115.03, which must be about the cheapest bill I have ever had from MB Newcastle. They used my oil, saving £60. In fairness they were very good, identifying a couple of wants of repair.
There is an oil leak from the oil filter housing. This has been bothering me a while but I thought the source was the rocker gasket. I have just ordered three new gaskets (£30) and a 46mm socket and will DIY following these instructions: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w163-m-class/14951...
They noted that the ABS ring on the nearside rear axle is starting to go. Happily I have two spares. And they noted that the stone guard on the same axle is starting to corrode. In due course, I'll have each hub stripped and re-assembled with new stone guards, new wheel bearings and the new ABS rings.
There is an oil leak from the oil filter housing. This has been bothering me a while but I thought the source was the rocker gasket. I have just ordered three new gaskets (£30) and a 46mm socket and will DIY following these instructions: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w163-m-class/14951...
They noted that the ABS ring on the nearside rear axle is starting to go. Happily I have two spares. And they noted that the stone guard on the same axle is starting to corrode. In due course, I'll have each hub stripped and re-assembled with new stone guards, new wheel bearings and the new ABS rings.
I tackled the leak from the oil filter housing this evening. This has the potential to be a very easy job. Except I sheared one of the bolts which holds the oil cooler to the filter housing. Boring. I don't have much luck when working on cars. It is not the end of the world because the filter housing is off the car and hopefully Terry (Penfold to Baister's Dangermouse) can extract the remains. If not, a new filter housing is only £55. I am going to fit new bolts. £1.92 each. My mistake probably was doing the job on a warm engine. Or maybe it was just bad luck.
Edit:
Here are the new seals:
And here the oil filter housing off the car:
And here the sheared bolt.
The problem is a steel bolt in an aluminium housing: corrosion holds it fast in place. Terry says there is nothing I could have done differently. He can get the remains of the bolt out but MB Newcastle can get me a new housing by tomorrow for £46, so I have gone down that route.
Looking at the pictures it is not clear to me that these seals have been leaking. But there can be no harm in changing them. I think the culprit is probably the familiar rocker cover leak. These m113 engines are pretty notorious for tiny oil weeps. I'd like to get mine bone dry but maybe it's too much to ask.
Edit:
Here are the new seals:
And here the oil filter housing off the car:
And here the sheared bolt.
The problem is a steel bolt in an aluminium housing: corrosion holds it fast in place. Terry says there is nothing I could have done differently. He can get the remains of the bolt out but MB Newcastle can get me a new housing by tomorrow for £46, so I have gone down that route.
Looking at the pictures it is not clear to me that these seals have been leaking. But there can be no harm in changing them. I think the culprit is probably the familiar rocker cover leak. These m113 engines are pretty notorious for tiny oil weeps. I'd like to get mine bone dry but maybe it's too much to ask.
Edited by r129sl on Monday 3rd April 10:17
I frequently bemoan my mechanical ineptitude in these pages. But tonight I hit a new low, even by my usually rock bottom standards. The new oil filter housing and associated bits and bobs came into Merc Newcastle and, my wife being away, I thought I'd get on with fitting them. They came off easily enough, after all.
Not so fast. First off, access on re-assembly was a lot harder than on disassembly. I had to take the radiator top hose off to get in. Second, the oil filter housing is not tapped. I was paranoid about stripping any thread I made and I was well aware that the specified torque for the four bolts which attach the oil cooler to the filter housing is only 11Nm. Long story short, I didn't tighten the bolts enough. I was far too timid.
When I test fired the engine to check for leaks, it sprayed oil everywhere. It was upwards raining oil in my garage. I shut the engine off immediately. It must have been on for no more than 10 seconds, certainly not 15, and no revs. It wasn't until I looked down after about ten minutes that I realised how bad a mistake I'd made. There was a huge puddle of oil on the floor. Picture to follow. In no more than 10 seconds it dumped five litres of oil out of the tiny gap between the oil cooler and filter housing. Testament, I suppose, to the oil pressure. But I have probably worn the engine more in those ten seconds than in the whole lifetime of the car to date. I say that only half in jest. (Brief internet research suggests no harm will have been done.)
With nothing to lose, I tightened the bolts up, torquing them to precisely 11Nm each. Almost needless to say, they tightened up nicely and the looseness I'd feared was the start of stripping was no such thing. I cleaned the engine down. I refilled with oil. I cleaned the floor (which took a lot of time and blue paper). And I lit the kitchen fire.
Now I'm off to shower with Fairy liquid.
I hate this.
New parts:
Nasty mess:
Warm fire:
Edit: this morning there is a new puddle of oil on the floor. I can't figure out whether this is because there is still a leak or whether it is simply that the stuff which came out last night has gradually made its way down there. The dipstick (operated with long nose pliers) is still showing full. I certainly can't see any new leak but it is so tight in there it is impossible to tell. I think I'll forget about it and come back to it later. Oh woe.
Not so fast. First off, access on re-assembly was a lot harder than on disassembly. I had to take the radiator top hose off to get in. Second, the oil filter housing is not tapped. I was paranoid about stripping any thread I made and I was well aware that the specified torque for the four bolts which attach the oil cooler to the filter housing is only 11Nm. Long story short, I didn't tighten the bolts enough. I was far too timid.
When I test fired the engine to check for leaks, it sprayed oil everywhere. It was upwards raining oil in my garage. I shut the engine off immediately. It must have been on for no more than 10 seconds, certainly not 15, and no revs. It wasn't until I looked down after about ten minutes that I realised how bad a mistake I'd made. There was a huge puddle of oil on the floor. Picture to follow. In no more than 10 seconds it dumped five litres of oil out of the tiny gap between the oil cooler and filter housing. Testament, I suppose, to the oil pressure. But I have probably worn the engine more in those ten seconds than in the whole lifetime of the car to date. I say that only half in jest. (Brief internet research suggests no harm will have been done.)
With nothing to lose, I tightened the bolts up, torquing them to precisely 11Nm each. Almost needless to say, they tightened up nicely and the looseness I'd feared was the start of stripping was no such thing. I cleaned the engine down. I refilled with oil. I cleaned the floor (which took a lot of time and blue paper). And I lit the kitchen fire.
Now I'm off to shower with Fairy liquid.
I hate this.
New parts:
Nasty mess:
Warm fire:
Edit: this morning there is a new puddle of oil on the floor. I can't figure out whether this is because there is still a leak or whether it is simply that the stuff which came out last night has gradually made its way down there. The dipstick (operated with long nose pliers) is still showing full. I certainly can't see any new leak but it is so tight in there it is impossible to tell. I think I'll forget about it and come back to it later. Oh woe.
Edited by r129sl on Wednesday 5th April 07:22
Thanks for your kindnesses. I still feel a total knacker.
Having discussed it with Terry this morning, I am hopeful it is not leaking and confident no harm has been done. This would make sense: the oil level is not going down and the volume of oil dumped in the bottom of the engine compartment yesterday might be expected to drip out of the undertray overnight.
I am home alone tonight—ladies, are you reading this?!—and so after work I will thoroughly clean the engine with brake cleaner and an air line, remove the undertray and carefully test for leaks. I picked up a further 8 litres of 229.5 spec oil this morning and when I am satisfied it is leak-tight I will replace the oil. I also bought a huge drain pan and funnel because I am always spilling waste oil. And maybe finally I will get back where I started.
Having discussed it with Terry this morning, I am hopeful it is not leaking and confident no harm has been done. This would make sense: the oil level is not going down and the volume of oil dumped in the bottom of the engine compartment yesterday might be expected to drip out of the undertray overnight.
I am home alone tonight—ladies, are you reading this?!—and so after work I will thoroughly clean the engine with brake cleaner and an air line, remove the undertray and carefully test for leaks. I picked up a further 8 litres of 229.5 spec oil this morning and when I am satisfied it is leak-tight I will replace the oil. I also bought a huge drain pan and funnel because I am always spilling waste oil. And maybe finally I will get back where I started.
I haven't fixed it so I am sending it to the professionals while I am on holiday.
I had an easier time of it tonight. Got it up on stands, removed the under tray, cleaned it. I had a good look and feel around the oil cooler and filter housing and couldn't find any leak. So I checked it was full and ran it. Straight away there was a leak from the left front of the engine. I cannot tell where from. I removed the filter housing and checked the seal was well-seated, which it was. I didn't dare remove the cooler but I checked all the fixings were torqued, which they were. I cleaned it up again and ran it. Still the leak.
I am now wondering whether I haven't damaged the timing case when loosening the filter housing. Actually, I don't care anymore. I am going to pay someone else to fix it. Lesson learned.
I had an easier time of it tonight. Got it up on stands, removed the under tray, cleaned it. I had a good look and feel around the oil cooler and filter housing and couldn't find any leak. So I checked it was full and ran it. Straight away there was a leak from the left front of the engine. I cannot tell where from. I removed the filter housing and checked the seal was well-seated, which it was. I didn't dare remove the cooler but I checked all the fixings were torqued, which they were. I cleaned it up again and ran it. Still the leak.
I am now wondering whether I haven't damaged the timing case when loosening the filter housing. Actually, I don't care anymore. I am going to pay someone else to fix it. Lesson learned.
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