Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super
Discussion
MOT time for the 164.
The Alfa had been SORNed for 6 months as my wife's Saab, the Rover 75, weddings, house development all the other life excuses got in the way. Last weekend it started up and blew a good load of nonsense out of the exhaust. It hates not being driven. Heaters on, doors open, I carefully dried the inside of the windows and pulls the leaves out of the scuttle. I was ashamed - it's done nothing but be an Alfa and due to a smirking battery parasite I have ignored it for long enough - time to get it back into regular use!
Some fresh Premum non-Pb helped, and as a few miles of local pottering passed everything eased up nicely. I went through my MOT list, pumped up the tyres and wiped off the worst of any winter sludge...no more delays...
Passed. Phew.
The electrical gremlin (or perhaps 'foletto') has revealed itself in the MOT bay - flickering headlights. In the zero position on the stalk, the sidelights come on, flickering and/or very dimly, about 8 seconds after the car is locked. With the key in, they are on dipped at 0, nothing on 'sidelights' and dipped/full as normal on 'lights on'. Hmm!
Luckily, Phil over at Alfacraft is nearby and I went to catch up with him. We pulled relays, cleaned contacts and even had a friendly electrician help with some prodding. No joy.
Given my experience with the fan relay and other truculent items on the car, I'm going to pull every relay and fuse, sand the contacts, check and reinstall with electrical grease. First port of call - the driver's side smart fuse box, with a professional hinge, cable, excellent labelling and little light (that also now flickers):
Sleeves up, work to be done...
The Alfa had been SORNed for 6 months as my wife's Saab, the Rover 75, weddings, house development all the other life excuses got in the way. Last weekend it started up and blew a good load of nonsense out of the exhaust. It hates not being driven. Heaters on, doors open, I carefully dried the inside of the windows and pulls the leaves out of the scuttle. I was ashamed - it's done nothing but be an Alfa and due to a smirking battery parasite I have ignored it for long enough - time to get it back into regular use!
Some fresh Premum non-Pb helped, and as a few miles of local pottering passed everything eased up nicely. I went through my MOT list, pumped up the tyres and wiped off the worst of any winter sludge...no more delays...
Passed. Phew.
The electrical gremlin (or perhaps 'foletto') has revealed itself in the MOT bay - flickering headlights. In the zero position on the stalk, the sidelights come on, flickering and/or very dimly, about 8 seconds after the car is locked. With the key in, they are on dipped at 0, nothing on 'sidelights' and dipped/full as normal on 'lights on'. Hmm!
Luckily, Phil over at Alfacraft is nearby and I went to catch up with him. We pulled relays, cleaned contacts and even had a friendly electrician help with some prodding. No joy.
Given my experience with the fan relay and other truculent items on the car, I'm going to pull every relay and fuse, sand the contacts, check and reinstall with electrical grease. First port of call - the driver's side smart fuse box, with a professional hinge, cable, excellent labelling and little light (that also now flickers):
Sleeves up, work to be done...
Potential success.
Having got into the habit of disconnecting the battery after each trip, I had hoped the 164 would give me a clue as to what was ailing it. In my experience, a bit of care taken to listen, smell and look carefully at a car often yields some clues as to an issues.
With the engine just swtiched off and the headlights beginning to flicker, I sat quietly for a moment.
<muted clicking>
Was that...?
<muffled click>
Is that a relay firing with the key out? Hmm... let's open the interior fuse box again... it appears A727 559 relay for the 'Control Unit Parking Lamps' is occasionally activating. Oh, and it's warm - hot, indeed!
So I took a punt and tracked down the same relay, actually from the the breaker of the black 164 earlier in this thread that I took some panels from, and swapped it out.
This may have cured the issue, but as it was intermittent only time will tell!
Having got into the habit of disconnecting the battery after each trip, I had hoped the 164 would give me a clue as to what was ailing it. In my experience, a bit of care taken to listen, smell and look carefully at a car often yields some clues as to an issues.
With the engine just swtiched off and the headlights beginning to flicker, I sat quietly for a moment.
<muted clicking>
Was that...?
<muffled click>
Is that a relay firing with the key out? Hmm... let's open the interior fuse box again... it appears A727 559 relay for the 'Control Unit Parking Lamps' is occasionally activating. Oh, and it's warm - hot, indeed!
So I took a punt and tracked down the same relay, actually from the the breaker of the black 164 earlier in this thread that I took some panels from, and swapped it out.
This may have cured the issue, but as it was intermittent only time will tell!
Thanks for the kind words - I'll endeavour to post up some more content now as it's back on the road.
The relay has cured the issue for now - the battery is healthy, the lights back to normal and nothing is too hot or making terrifying noises in the electrical areas. Hopefully this means we can get to the Alfa day in April without incident!
My wife took it for a drive yesterday and said "The Alfa is, just ... sharper than the Saab. Steering, brakes, engine, noise - even the seats." I think that sums it up nicely - it'll hopefully sharpen up further once I finally get round to foisting the new front and rear subframes I have resting in the garage full of new suspension gubbins. Also, underseal.
I now have three cars that require derusting, sealing and undersealing. This is not going to be a fun spring...
The relay has cured the issue for now - the battery is healthy, the lights back to normal and nothing is too hot or making terrifying noises in the electrical areas. Hopefully this means we can get to the Alfa day in April without incident!
My wife took it for a drive yesterday and said "The Alfa is, just ... sharper than the Saab. Steering, brakes, engine, noise - even the seats." I think that sums it up nicely - it'll hopefully sharpen up further once I finally get round to foisting the new front and rear subframes I have resting in the garage full of new suspension gubbins. Also, underseal.
I now have three cars that require derusting, sealing and undersealing. This is not going to be a fun spring...
Alfahol Addict said:
What a great thread and good job on the car, thank you for saving that 164. 
Thanks, it's getting there, though every time I leave it for a month something else demands attention!wojtekz28 said:
Great job! The car is definitely worth renovating. Do You have an old cassette radio? Can You sell it to me?
Not at present, but I'll let you know if the car and spares are ever going anywhere, thanks.dasigty said:
Check your email.
Saw something on ebay that could be of interest to you, wont fit any of mine ;0)
I bid but missed it at the end due to work commitments - a shame as I doubt I'll see another. Thanks for the notes though, much appreciated.Saw something on ebay that could be of interest to you, wont fit any of mine ;0)
The Alfa did make it to Auto Italia this year, although not before its traditional harrumphing of a battery ever so slightly down on charge. Only just this time mind, not utterly doornailed, but as it was my backup battery from the GT6 I finally decided to agree with what the battery has been telling me for a few years and actually dispose of it. Oh well. I also tidied up some fuses that were showing some grottiness (I only changed these a few years ago - I'll blame the miserable part quality) and finally got shot of the oversized battery tray that obscured the shroud.
There we go. Done. Right? Nothing untidy or annoying in that last picture? Anyway, time was ticking on...
Alfa specific entrance, how fancy and brilliantly traffic-dodging:
Made it and even had a few moments to clean off the worst of the grime and hold the Super Resin Polish under its snout to get it to shine.
An excellent day, as always, alas I took many photos on an actual camera, rather than the phone and have yet to blue my tooth for enough hours to transfer them over. Update to follow.
I checked the fluid last weekend and topped up the coolant tank in, I think, the first time since we did the thermostat three years ago. My memory jabbed me with a sharp piece of trim to remind me of a coolant bottle somewhere in that large stash I dragged back to the garage... perhaps I could clean it up ready for swapping out when the radiator is changed...
Plan abandoned upon further inspection.
The 164 has been back into daily use for a short while, as my wife decided she preferred it over her Saab 900 that was developing ever more exhaust leaks and whose front engine mount was making stop-start traffic a chore.
Not to be outdone, the ever-faithful 164 shrugged off its admirer by developing its own exhaust leak, plus a few clunks as the newly-odorous pipework sagged into crossmembers at the slightest mention of motion:
It capped it off by dismissing a rubber exhaust hanger and really making a noisy mess of itself.
Thus it is returned to skulking in the corner of the drive while I plot some potential time to work on it. Yay.
There we go. Done. Right? Nothing untidy or annoying in that last picture? Anyway, time was ticking on...
Alfa specific entrance, how fancy and brilliantly traffic-dodging:
Made it and even had a few moments to clean off the worst of the grime and hold the Super Resin Polish under its snout to get it to shine.
An excellent day, as always, alas I took many photos on an actual camera, rather than the phone and have yet to blue my tooth for enough hours to transfer them over. Update to follow.
I checked the fluid last weekend and topped up the coolant tank in, I think, the first time since we did the thermostat three years ago. My memory jabbed me with a sharp piece of trim to remind me of a coolant bottle somewhere in that large stash I dragged back to the garage... perhaps I could clean it up ready for swapping out when the radiator is changed...
Plan abandoned upon further inspection.
The 164 has been back into daily use for a short while, as my wife decided she preferred it over her Saab 900 that was developing ever more exhaust leaks and whose front engine mount was making stop-start traffic a chore.
Not to be outdone, the ever-faithful 164 shrugged off its admirer by developing its own exhaust leak, plus a few clunks as the newly-odorous pipework sagged into crossmembers at the slightest mention of motion:
It capped it off by dismissing a rubber exhaust hanger and really making a noisy mess of itself.
Thus it is returned to skulking in the corner of the drive while I plot some potential time to work on it. Yay.
Last weekend I visited Cheltenham to see a friend and as the Rover was full of furniture and the Saab awaiting engine mount and exhaust work, I took the 164 outside of the M25 for the first time this year. Tyres checked, coolant and oil topped up ever so slightly and sunroof open - time to blow out the cobwebs!
I worked out a route through the woods outside Newbury to collect exhaust past for the Saab. The seller has a mid box, but then volunteered a downpipe too. Result!
Yes, I have enough confidence in the electricals to actually have the batter cover mounted. This is the first time in a while.
Fantastic greenery streamed past and I remembered how enjoyable this car is to drive. The 164 is very at home with twisty B road detours as its relative short geared and grippy. Some of the work over the past years really shows now - the brakes are responsive and fade resistant, the steering sharp and it never missed a chance to rev or hesistated throughout. The seats hug your kidneys and there's not a single warning light on the dash. Although the exhaust is in its last throes of life, it has a magnificent death rattle - the twinspark really snarls without ever being irritating.
The 164 was the last recipient of the 8V twinspark, and once it's fully warmed (as in, 30 minutes), all last remnants of tappet noise and gearbox whine soften, the buzzsaw twin cam catches on at reliable rev points and it becomes an absolute blast.
After takign a few muddy road the ABS light started winking at me - probably just mud but some of the connectors likely need a clean. In fact the entire underbonnet area needs a proper descrunge. Brushes and Gunk en route.
250 miles covered in the weekend and I think the Alfa needs some rewards. Work begins...
I worked out a route through the woods outside Newbury to collect exhaust past for the Saab. The seller has a mid box, but then volunteered a downpipe too. Result!
Yes, I have enough confidence in the electricals to actually have the batter cover mounted. This is the first time in a while.
Fantastic greenery streamed past and I remembered how enjoyable this car is to drive. The 164 is very at home with twisty B road detours as its relative short geared and grippy. Some of the work over the past years really shows now - the brakes are responsive and fade resistant, the steering sharp and it never missed a chance to rev or hesistated throughout. The seats hug your kidneys and there's not a single warning light on the dash. Although the exhaust is in its last throes of life, it has a magnificent death rattle - the twinspark really snarls without ever being irritating.
The 164 was the last recipient of the 8V twinspark, and once it's fully warmed (as in, 30 minutes), all last remnants of tappet noise and gearbox whine soften, the buzzsaw twin cam catches on at reliable rev points and it becomes an absolute blast.
After takign a few muddy road the ABS light started winking at me - probably just mud but some of the connectors likely need a clean. In fact the entire underbonnet area needs a proper descrunge. Brushes and Gunk en route.
250 miles covered in the weekend and I think the Alfa needs some rewards. Work begins...
Thanks for the kind words - having to skip the Alfa Day tomorrow unfortunately, a pain but perhaps next year.
Clattering of exhaust quelled, for now, with some new rubber hangers and slight bending of the existing hooks. Phil at Alfacraft once again helped me out in exchange for some muttered curses and general whinging:
The ABS light has also sauntered off for the time being after a waggle of connectors, and the 164 is once again twincamming along happily.
Phil and I have also hatched a plan for bringing the underneath up to standard. More to follow.
Clattering of exhaust quelled, for now, with some new rubber hangers and slight bending of the existing hooks. Phil at Alfacraft once again helped me out in exchange for some muttered curses and general whinging:
The ABS light has also sauntered off for the time being after a waggle of connectors, and the 164 is once again twincamming along happily.
Phil and I have also hatched a plan for bringing the underneath up to standard. More to follow.
Inspection of the rear underside.
Summary: Not quite leftover cornflakes, but requiring some attention. Golden Grahams? No, that's not right either...
It looks worse than it is on the suspension components, but then it is worse than it looks on some bits of the floorpan where rust has got under the underseal.
Crossmember a little worse for wear:
Shock absorbers and brake dust covers in particularly reprehensible state, but fortunately all to be replaced:
Fortunately I have this, another rear crossmember. After much scraping and prodding, its probably about the same standard as the one on the car, so I'm going to consult with chemicals, dip firms and a friend who restores steelwork to see how we can get it to a stage that will last for a good few years.
I finally removed the last cable tie from the previous ownership: it tidied the cam sensor cable away from spinny belty things, but I replaced it with a P clips run through the dipstick support bolt.
At this corner of the block there has always been a slight oil weep, and while rummaging I found the head of an inverted bolt, and experimentally gave a bit of a tighten. We'll see if it makes any difference.
Not pretty but it's not a cable tie:
I also tighten everything I could spot that needed it, emptied the oil catch can and topped up a few fluids.
It was a delight to come home that evening to find the wife had cleaned it following the departure of our driveway skip (two bucket method, she is fastidious, don't worry) and the 164 is ready from some more disassembly or summer pottering.
I now have to source the correct shocks, springs and bushes for the rear, and a few jars of POR15 and BiltHamber products in preparation.
Should I go polybush or standard? The Poly experiment on the engine mounts was a disaster, but for suspension perhaps more suitable. Opinions welcome!
Summary: Not quite leftover cornflakes, but requiring some attention. Golden Grahams? No, that's not right either...
It looks worse than it is on the suspension components, but then it is worse than it looks on some bits of the floorpan where rust has got under the underseal.
Crossmember a little worse for wear:
Shock absorbers and brake dust covers in particularly reprehensible state, but fortunately all to be replaced:
Fortunately I have this, another rear crossmember. After much scraping and prodding, its probably about the same standard as the one on the car, so I'm going to consult with chemicals, dip firms and a friend who restores steelwork to see how we can get it to a stage that will last for a good few years.
I finally removed the last cable tie from the previous ownership: it tidied the cam sensor cable away from spinny belty things, but I replaced it with a P clips run through the dipstick support bolt.
At this corner of the block there has always been a slight oil weep, and while rummaging I found the head of an inverted bolt, and experimentally gave a bit of a tighten. We'll see if it makes any difference.
Not pretty but it's not a cable tie:
I also tighten everything I could spot that needed it, emptied the oil catch can and topped up a few fluids.
It was a delight to come home that evening to find the wife had cleaned it following the departure of our driveway skip (two bucket method, she is fastidious, don't worry) and the 164 is ready from some more disassembly or summer pottering.
I now have to source the correct shocks, springs and bushes for the rear, and a few jars of POR15 and BiltHamber products in preparation.
Should I go polybush or standard? The Poly experiment on the engine mounts was a disaster, but for suspension perhaps more suitable. Opinions welcome!
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 7th July 17:47
Cambs_Stuart said:
I've replaced bushes with poly on my impreza and legacy, and they've really enhanced the feel and experience.
However, my current car is a big comfy cruiser/family transport, and it's the first car I've had where I'm aiming for quiet and comfort. So, no poly bushes, no exhaust mods, no induction kits.
What do you use the 164 for?
Need another?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Apologies I missed this! The Alfa mainly does occasional A road meanderings and some inner city stuff. I rare get the chance to push it in interesting environments, but after some research I'm going to go for the softest polybushes on the suspension and leave engine mounts and ride height all at stock (or replaced as standard). Fingers and toes crossed - I've a lot of prep to do before dropping the bottom of this car out!However, my current car is a big comfy cruiser/family transport, and it's the first car I've had where I'm aiming for quiet and comfort. So, no poly bushes, no exhaust mods, no induction kits.
What do you use the 164 for?
Need another?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In the interim, before a drive the other day I thought I'd do a quick check under the bonnet. Good thing I did - two injection rail fuel hoses had some serious splits:
Worrying in any situation, but even more so as I replaced these myself when the originals began weeping. I must have used non-fuel rated line - curse my earlier self and his impudence!
Careful removal gave rise to further concern - these were sold and stamped as rated fuel lines. Either they weren't right for unleaded or the original construction was not up to speck. How worrying.
I made up two new lines from some reliably-source pipe used on the Triumph and the car is back running.
Immolation dodged.
Well, the 164 a blotted its copybook with its first actual breakdown and recovery in 6 years...
No, not a flat battery (the battery is in the boot for that weight balance, faithful thread devotees), just the use of headlights to confirm some suspicions once it got home.
Ever since I've owned it the starter has seemed a bit sluggish, but with not other twinspark 164 reference point I've just noted the part number of the motor for future reference and carried on.
The ignition key spring (from 'crank' back to 'on') has been sticking occasionally too: you can see where this is going.
My wife was taking the 164 for commuting duties (as her Saab 900 gearbox is at death's door) when the key didn't return properly, the starter didn't return correctly and wisps of smoke validated her decision to pull over and turn off the car.
The RAC recovered her from the A316 (sorry for anyone caught in the jam on Tuesday) and we gave things a quick prod in the pouring rain and darkness once back on the driveway.
With the car moving freely, all electrics checking out but no crank it was time for a Bosch starter, 0 001 108 048. My wife contacted our old friend Mick at Vintage Alfa in Northampton and he dug out a good unit. Now I'm supposed to be in a working car for Christmas, and with the Saab out of commission the wife is using the 75, so I really needed this one to work out...
Ah.
Not exactly 'refurbished' is it? But Mick has never let me down - if he says its working, its working, so I set about sanding the contacts and checking it yesterday in the porch while it drizzled.
With a shot from a jumper pack it gave a spin for freedom, and the Bendix gear working correctly. I carefully checked what to oil and what not to oil, and set it aside with some Bilt Hamber to tidy up the case.
Having checked a few forums a lot of people said it was easier to change from below...but perhaps that's on Spiders and 146s, as there's a fair bit of steering assemblage and such in the way. I thought I'd give it a go where it stood, from above, as I've got more experience taking all that stuff out!
The engine bay as we started the day - the starter is between the firewall and the block, under the plenum chamber at the back. Battery disconnected first!
Inlet and throttle out, various tentacles unclipped or set aside.
Don't worry it's a tough old cable:
There it is, the cantankerous fuming little lump... I can get to one 13mm bolt but nothing else...so more must come out!
Idle control out the way.
Plenum likewise after loosening my intake connectors, and attempting the dreaded 'blind' 17mm bolts that somehow hold it to the top bracket/mount.
Some forums and Alfa bods said I needed to also remove the plenum bracket, but that looks painful and I attempted it with good light, patience and plenty of extension sockets.
I also took a board and a cushion and put it on the red Alfa Romeo logo, as I needed to kneel on top of the engine.
The starter here is in the middle, the large gauge cables a flag of its potential.
Two 13mm bolts hold it in, one needs every socket extension you have against the block of the engine.
Bolts out, you can see a gap between it and the block!
Photo taken blind to check the connectors - 12mm spanner takes them off, and a spade connector for the solenoid (square connector at the top).
Minimum wigglage later, it was out!
I don't think that's an original 164 one, but it is the same spec. Hmm. Anyone know? You can see the bendix gear it stuck on the shaft, and nothing was budging it! Here it is compared to the replacement.
That was about an hour. The flywheel looked to be in good nick, and all cables I cleaned, sanded and put some electrical grease on. A cup of tea later and it was an hour to reassemble, as my knees started to whinge and I was very worried about aligning the bolts and starter correctly.
The famously annoying 17mm plenum bolts were about 15 minutes, with gently shaking fingertips. Ow.
But it all went back nicely, I took time to clean the intakes and butterfly valve, grease a few things and check/renew clamps that were past their best, and generally take a look around, as its most definitely Not Fun down the back there. Should have done the alternator, really...
Battery back on, key in... started on the first crank! Noticeably quieter too - it may have been the case that it was not returning properly for some time, but we'll see.
Importantly, the 164 is ready for the festive season, and its got plenty to be getting on with.
Technically, of course, it still hasn't ever broken down on ME, someone else was driving, you see, and ... (fade to Alfa related gibberish excuses)
No, not a flat battery (the battery is in the boot for that weight balance, faithful thread devotees), just the use of headlights to confirm some suspicions once it got home.
Ever since I've owned it the starter has seemed a bit sluggish, but with not other twinspark 164 reference point I've just noted the part number of the motor for future reference and carried on.
The ignition key spring (from 'crank' back to 'on') has been sticking occasionally too: you can see where this is going.
My wife was taking the 164 for commuting duties (as her Saab 900 gearbox is at death's door) when the key didn't return properly, the starter didn't return correctly and wisps of smoke validated her decision to pull over and turn off the car.
The RAC recovered her from the A316 (sorry for anyone caught in the jam on Tuesday) and we gave things a quick prod in the pouring rain and darkness once back on the driveway.
With the car moving freely, all electrics checking out but no crank it was time for a Bosch starter, 0 001 108 048. My wife contacted our old friend Mick at Vintage Alfa in Northampton and he dug out a good unit. Now I'm supposed to be in a working car for Christmas, and with the Saab out of commission the wife is using the 75, so I really needed this one to work out...
Ah.
Not exactly 'refurbished' is it? But Mick has never let me down - if he says its working, its working, so I set about sanding the contacts and checking it yesterday in the porch while it drizzled.
With a shot from a jumper pack it gave a spin for freedom, and the Bendix gear working correctly. I carefully checked what to oil and what not to oil, and set it aside with some Bilt Hamber to tidy up the case.
Having checked a few forums a lot of people said it was easier to change from below...but perhaps that's on Spiders and 146s, as there's a fair bit of steering assemblage and such in the way. I thought I'd give it a go where it stood, from above, as I've got more experience taking all that stuff out!
The engine bay as we started the day - the starter is between the firewall and the block, under the plenum chamber at the back. Battery disconnected first!
Inlet and throttle out, various tentacles unclipped or set aside.
Don't worry it's a tough old cable:
There it is, the cantankerous fuming little lump... I can get to one 13mm bolt but nothing else...so more must come out!
Idle control out the way.
Plenum likewise after loosening my intake connectors, and attempting the dreaded 'blind' 17mm bolts that somehow hold it to the top bracket/mount.
Some forums and Alfa bods said I needed to also remove the plenum bracket, but that looks painful and I attempted it with good light, patience and plenty of extension sockets.
I also took a board and a cushion and put it on the red Alfa Romeo logo, as I needed to kneel on top of the engine.
The starter here is in the middle, the large gauge cables a flag of its potential.
Two 13mm bolts hold it in, one needs every socket extension you have against the block of the engine.
Bolts out, you can see a gap between it and the block!
Photo taken blind to check the connectors - 12mm spanner takes them off, and a spade connector for the solenoid (square connector at the top).
Minimum wigglage later, it was out!
I don't think that's an original 164 one, but it is the same spec. Hmm. Anyone know? You can see the bendix gear it stuck on the shaft, and nothing was budging it! Here it is compared to the replacement.
That was about an hour. The flywheel looked to be in good nick, and all cables I cleaned, sanded and put some electrical grease on. A cup of tea later and it was an hour to reassemble, as my knees started to whinge and I was very worried about aligning the bolts and starter correctly.
The famously annoying 17mm plenum bolts were about 15 minutes, with gently shaking fingertips. Ow.
But it all went back nicely, I took time to clean the intakes and butterfly valve, grease a few things and check/renew clamps that were past their best, and generally take a look around, as its most definitely Not Fun down the back there. Should have done the alternator, really...
Battery back on, key in... started on the first crank! Noticeably quieter too - it may have been the case that it was not returning properly for some time, but we'll see.
Importantly, the 164 is ready for the festive season, and its got plenty to be getting on with.
Technically, of course, it still hasn't ever broken down on ME, someone else was driving, you see, and ... (fade to Alfa related gibberish excuses)
Yes not a bad track record - though I think infrequent use and not having to use it for commuting helps!
Made it to Christmas. The starter seems to be an improvement - it starts first crank and it MAY have been the long-standing rattling that I was convinced was the timing chain (for five years).
The Saab has sadly started to chew through its gearbox, and we're considering options with the Saab club and Nelson at NDS Saabs. Whichever way we go, I think it will be expensive and require a parsimonious January. Erk.
Trust the 172 is well - some say its a whole 8 better than a 164.
Made it to Christmas. The starter seems to be an improvement - it starts first crank and it MAY have been the long-standing rattling that I was convinced was the timing chain (for five years).
The Saab has sadly started to chew through its gearbox, and we're considering options with the Saab club and Nelson at NDS Saabs. Whichever way we go, I think it will be expensive and require a parsimonious January. Erk.
Trust the 172 is well - some say its a whole 8 better than a 164.
Edited by Spinakerr on Tuesday 24th December 18:24
Blanco92 said:
Here we see the obvious benefit of running a fleet of 3. I’ve always advocated it. And you appreciate it more when they all work simultaneously. You don’t get this enjoyment out of new lease cars...
Indeed, although to completely future-proof our turnkey requirements, another addition may be required.Following a successful festive season slog around various counties in all conditions, the 164 performed admirably and the starter motor is a quiet, reliable improvement. I even let someone else drive it.
Spending so much time in it revealed a few items that needed fettling, so yesterday with nothing else pressing and good weather, I got down to some tea-infused tinkering.
First up, the trim lifting from the glovebox got a dose of solvents and clamps to restore a Pininfarina line.
It might need another go, but it is better. Trust me.
Brake fluid was a little low, so topped it up. This might be the first time I've ever topped it up (other than when pipes and calipers were changed), so something to keep an eye on.
I removed an autumn's worth of leaves and biodetritus from the scuttle, and mucked out various gunge traps around the car (boot lid seal - what were they thinking?
One of the washer jets just lets loose into the sunroof rather than the screen.
For some reason it doesn't have directionable metal eyelet on that side, possibly lost or collapsed inside. The mechanism looks a tad complicated so I'm going to try and track down replacements. Anyone know if they were used on any other Alfas or Fiats?
Screenwash tank reservoir luckily exactly fits a bottletop as an instant funnel.
The alternator belt was also a bit squeaky, seemed a bit loose to me:
The belt is ok (I changed it a few years ago), so I just tightened it.
A top off of 10W40 and coolants and its all set. I do think I might have to order a radiator for it sooner rather than later, this incorrect rusty wreckage has been an eyesore for 6 years. Time for it to go!
Another year, another MOT for the 164. THis year had to be one of the cheapest - just a set of wiper blades after a good prodding all round.
Tester pointed out a few suspension components that were tired and a missing exhaust hanger, but they are all on the list this year once I get some ramp time. It probably needs a proper clean now after all that storming we've been having.
Tempted to take this one to Le Mans classic this year, as it's never been on the continent and I feel it's good to the stage of being properly reliable & sounds for long distances... could also be the only 164 in the car park!
Tester pointed out a few suspension components that were tired and a missing exhaust hanger, but they are all on the list this year once I get some ramp time. It probably needs a proper clean now after all that storming we've been having.
Tempted to take this one to Le Mans classic this year, as it's never been on the continent and I feel it's good to the stage of being properly reliable & sounds for long distances... could also be the only 164 in the car park!
Thanks - yes its on the A4, Rams Westgate. Alfacraft use them for all MOTs as they are fellow Alfa owners, and the place is no nonsense and classic friendly.
Glad you also had a good 164 experience - real shame there are so few left, but this one is getting treated to new parrs aplenty shortly.
Glad you also had a good 164 experience - real shame there are so few left, but this one is getting treated to new parrs aplenty shortly.
I had hoped spending a much larger amount of time at home would have afforded my a sliver of time to work on some 164 items, but sadly I've either been too busy or working on other bits of car in the household.
The 164 has been used once a week for picking up essentials, and the better weather is making me feel guilty for not giving it its annual spring bath & full spa treatment (clay bar facial joke to be added here).
I did check the fluid and noticed, to my immense annoyance, that the expansion tank was sitting below its level.
A quick poke around revealed the aftermarket radiator had finally given up at the bottom, and was gradually reducing itself to the consistency of aged mushroom fins at the bottom of the car.
I had earmarked this for replacement on the first inspection, as its a Valeo ill-fitting item, secured with cable ties and hope, but never got round to it. While I'm at it, I think the radiator support that bolts onto the front subframe looks like a wreck dive attraction, so that needs to go.
Of course, there's nothign suitable in the UK - plenty of sites and sellers listing incorrect items as 'suitable' and another two checked after an order placement and 'didn't actually have it'. Honestly, what's the point in an online marketplace with realtime stock checking if they don't actually use it?
Not willing to dwell on nasty low cost makes, I have secured an original item in Italy, for 100EUR, though sadly he can't ship anything at the moment.
So, car is still useable and I have a thought about where to find some brackets on a donor... this bank holiday beckons for a thorough clean and suspension inspection!
The 164 has been used once a week for picking up essentials, and the better weather is making me feel guilty for not giving it its annual spring bath & full spa treatment (clay bar facial joke to be added here).
I did check the fluid and noticed, to my immense annoyance, that the expansion tank was sitting below its level.
A quick poke around revealed the aftermarket radiator had finally given up at the bottom, and was gradually reducing itself to the consistency of aged mushroom fins at the bottom of the car.
I had earmarked this for replacement on the first inspection, as its a Valeo ill-fitting item, secured with cable ties and hope, but never got round to it. While I'm at it, I think the radiator support that bolts onto the front subframe looks like a wreck dive attraction, so that needs to go.
Of course, there's nothign suitable in the UK - plenty of sites and sellers listing incorrect items as 'suitable' and another two checked after an order placement and 'didn't actually have it'. Honestly, what's the point in an online marketplace with realtime stock checking if they don't actually use it?
Not willing to dwell on nasty low cost makes, I have secured an original item in Italy, for 100EUR, though sadly he can't ship anything at the moment.
So, car is still useable and I have a thought about where to find some brackets on a donor... this bank holiday beckons for a thorough clean and suspension inspection!
No more leaks thus far, but the level does gradually drop. I'm using it for occasional runs to get food within a mile or two of home but nothing else.
Wipers are rarely replaced on the 164 - these Bosch ones seem pretty good and as the system is 'hidden' under the bonnet and therefore in shade I haven't had them expire in the sun as much as the other cars.
The 164 was looking particularly miserable after being parked under a large tree this week that acts as the latrine for the street's avian population, and in the midst of several building dust wind tunnels.
Today was supposed to be cloudy but dry, so ideal conditions for a day cleaning and polishing - alas I only got through the cleaning phase before sunlight became prevalent for the afternoon and the bodywork heated up, so I'll have to leave the clay/polish treatment to later this week. All the nastiness is purged from the bodywork though!
In lieu of gleeful paintwork restoration work I decided to poke around seals and muck traps, and was, erm, rewarded with the discovery of a blockage in the main scuttle.
Several handfuls later...
Contortionist antics and whinging did not solve the issue, not did a few gentle hoseblasts, so I decided to remove the intake for the heater on the driver's side, two 8mm bolts.
Oh dear. This was going to a swampy afternoon. I cleared as much as I could by hand, then enlisted the help of plastic scrapers and the gentle hose.
To clear the actual drains I used this flexible rod, really a giant spring with a tiny claw at the end that could also be used to pull on obstructions. Driver's side was easy-ish given the access...
That particular drain goes straight over the steering rack joint in RHD cars. Great...
Passenger side was much harder as I didn't want to remove the heater motor, wiring harness and relay assembly. Eventually got it cleared, and the scuttle completely dry in the afternoon sun.
I then cleaned the intake and anything within sight to minimise a reoccurance of this mucktastrophe
I also took the opportunity to remove a few cable ties from a previous visitor (service histor shows a replacement wiper assembly) with rubberised P clips, and all was well.
No rust in evidence in the area, thankfully, and I hope this prevents the 164 being added to the long list of cars that have been 'scuttled' in the past.
Right, where are those clay bars?
Wipers are rarely replaced on the 164 - these Bosch ones seem pretty good and as the system is 'hidden' under the bonnet and therefore in shade I haven't had them expire in the sun as much as the other cars.
The 164 was looking particularly miserable after being parked under a large tree this week that acts as the latrine for the street's avian population, and in the midst of several building dust wind tunnels.
Today was supposed to be cloudy but dry, so ideal conditions for a day cleaning and polishing - alas I only got through the cleaning phase before sunlight became prevalent for the afternoon and the bodywork heated up, so I'll have to leave the clay/polish treatment to later this week. All the nastiness is purged from the bodywork though!
In lieu of gleeful paintwork restoration work I decided to poke around seals and muck traps, and was, erm, rewarded with the discovery of a blockage in the main scuttle.
Several handfuls later...
Contortionist antics and whinging did not solve the issue, not did a few gentle hoseblasts, so I decided to remove the intake for the heater on the driver's side, two 8mm bolts.
Oh dear. This was going to a swampy afternoon. I cleared as much as I could by hand, then enlisted the help of plastic scrapers and the gentle hose.
To clear the actual drains I used this flexible rod, really a giant spring with a tiny claw at the end that could also be used to pull on obstructions. Driver's side was easy-ish given the access...
That particular drain goes straight over the steering rack joint in RHD cars. Great...
Passenger side was much harder as I didn't want to remove the heater motor, wiring harness and relay assembly. Eventually got it cleared, and the scuttle completely dry in the afternoon sun.
I then cleaned the intake and anything within sight to minimise a reoccurance of this mucktastrophe
I also took the opportunity to remove a few cable ties from a previous visitor (service histor shows a replacement wiper assembly) with rubberised P clips, and all was well.
No rust in evidence in the area, thankfully, and I hope this prevents the 164 being added to the long list of cars that have been 'scuttled' in the past.
Right, where are those clay bars?
On Friday I made the pilgrimage to an Alfa breaker that has supplied quite a lot of parts for the 164 over the years - including the wing and bumpers from much earlier in this thread.
I was keen to get a front radiator support bracket and generally poke any 164s that were about for my long list of parts.
Nice to be out and about amongst the Alfas...
Front grill on this one looks good...
Interior a bit shabby though.
In the end I secured two radiator brackets, neither of which are particularly nice but we'll see what happens after the application of various scrapers and chemicals, plus a replacement piece of grill I had wanted since purchasing the car, and headlight covers that hadn't disintegrated. I also spotted an 'aquascudo' or weathershield for the bottom of the radiator, and a large number of clips, bolts and minor trim bits that I knew were missing on mine. All in all, very reasonable and plenty to be getting on with!
I decided to tackle the front grill and headlight protectors as the weather was particularly conducive to tinkering upon my return, but I hadn't realised quite how scabby my grill bracket had got - should have picked one of those up as well!
Plenty of antagonistic spray later, the assembly came free, which included the bonnet latch.
Scraping mode activated.
Bilt Hamberisation.
Mk 2 chrome 'gold tooth' swapped over...
Finally! A front without a chipped tooth!
The headlight protectors also went on neatly, replacing the decomposing originals.
Much better - and other item included some missing bold and clips around the car, including the very 'shallow headed' bold that held part of the rear door locks on securely.
Next up, radiator and front crossmembers...
I was keen to get a front radiator support bracket and generally poke any 164s that were about for my long list of parts.
Nice to be out and about amongst the Alfas...
Front grill on this one looks good...
Interior a bit shabby though.
In the end I secured two radiator brackets, neither of which are particularly nice but we'll see what happens after the application of various scrapers and chemicals, plus a replacement piece of grill I had wanted since purchasing the car, and headlight covers that hadn't disintegrated. I also spotted an 'aquascudo' or weathershield for the bottom of the radiator, and a large number of clips, bolts and minor trim bits that I knew were missing on mine. All in all, very reasonable and plenty to be getting on with!
I decided to tackle the front grill and headlight protectors as the weather was particularly conducive to tinkering upon my return, but I hadn't realised quite how scabby my grill bracket had got - should have picked one of those up as well!
Plenty of antagonistic spray later, the assembly came free, which included the bonnet latch.
Scraping mode activated.
Bilt Hamberisation.
Mk 2 chrome 'gold tooth' swapped over...
Finally! A front without a chipped tooth!
The headlight protectors also went on neatly, replacing the decomposing originals.
Much better - and other item included some missing bold and clips around the car, including the very 'shallow headed' bold that held part of the rear door locks on securely.
Next up, radiator and front crossmembers...
Thanks - just weighing up options on the mass preparation of rusty components, especially given their size... some sort of giant plastic tub perhaps with Bilt Hamber products, left for a weekend? More research required!
On a recent excursion another little issue raised its smirking head - a climb in idle revs, only remediated by a sharp jab of the throttle.
A quick poke under the bonnet revealed the S shaped hose for the idle control valve in bad condition, possibly due to me overtightening the clamps.
I had trimmed this hose and refitted it before, but it looked like it had finally given up.
Of course almost impossible to find the exact hose, so I took a chance on a Land Rover heater hose, 577292. Its not perfect, being slightly too short, but for now it seems to have cured the problem. Either it was the issue or all the fiddling and movement in the area has shushed the issue for now.
On a recent excursion another little issue raised its smirking head - a climb in idle revs, only remediated by a sharp jab of the throttle.
A quick poke under the bonnet revealed the S shaped hose for the idle control valve in bad condition, possibly due to me overtightening the clamps.
I had trimmed this hose and refitted it before, but it looked like it had finally given up.
Of course almost impossible to find the exact hose, so I took a chance on a Land Rover heater hose, 577292. Its not perfect, being slightly too short, but for now it seems to have cured the problem. Either it was the issue or all the fiddling and movement in the area has shushed the issue for now.
Thanks! The 164 always puts a smile on my face, with the relaxing of controls in recent weeks I've enjoyed stretching its legs a bit more in the south of England.
Nothing really to report other than a clattering exhaust heatshield (more jam jar lids required) and continued research into powder coating for the new radiator support section, and the front & rear subframes. I'm aiming to get NOS engine mounts in from Italy, and a new radiator just arrived from Germany.
Here's a picture from a recent jaunt to Somerset.
Nothing really to report other than a clattering exhaust heatshield (more jam jar lids required) and continued research into powder coating for the new radiator support section, and the front & rear subframes. I'm aiming to get NOS engine mounts in from Italy, and a new radiator just arrived from Germany.
Here's a picture from a recent jaunt to Somerset.
waynedear said:
Mate is selling his H plate 8v 164, so tempting.
There's always room for another Alfa, isn't there?We are nearing the beginning of a min-resto on the 164, as I've got hold of engine mounts, various suspension and braking components, as well as spent an eyebrow-raising amount on springs and struts. Eek.
I'll be using Phil's ramp at Alfacraft as time permits, and also performing a load of rustproofing and waxoiling where possible. On Friday, we had a 2 hour preparation discussion. This was fortunate as the brake fluid warning light come on this week and I suspected a leak somewhere given a level drop.
Before the car photos, Phil's Alsatian is named Senna, and he's rarely impressed:
Up on the ramp, and the underneath is generally a little crusty but not terminal, thank goodness.
I'll spare you the dozens of photos I took for reference, but really everything that could be considered consumable needs replacing - wishbones, springs, shocks, anything even resebling a bush, as well as the subframes at both end (known and prepped).
I know it all looks very crusty indeed, but pretty much everything you see is being replaced. The crucial confirmation was that the sills, floors and strut towers/mounting points are all sounds and ready for treatment & rustproofing before the new gubbins are bolted on.
The exhaust has also split at the back of the backbox, so I'm going to limp that along until the underneath is ready, then aim for a full stainless addition, as was planned at purchase 8 years ago...
The brake fluid leak was also easily identified as the front right flexi having just gone, and it flailed fluid about a bit when prodded.
So what's the order of work?
Stage 1 - Renew all brake flexis and also finally fit a cam cover gasket and half moon seals to fix the oil leak.
Stage 2 - Acquire remaining parts for front end rebuild. Prepare subframe and any parts with rustproofing equipment.
Stage 3 - Take a weekend at Phil's removing the front subframe, wire brushing everything, refit frame, mounts, spring, shocks, wishbones, bushes. Spray everything with rust killing stuff.
Stage 4 - Repeat for rear end the following weekend.
Stage 5 - Commission stainless steel cat-back exhaust.
What's that? A second lockdown? Oh. Drat.
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