Phoenix from the flames - Porsche Boxster with an Audi 2.7T
Discussion
I've not been to that sort of meet before, I enjoyed it, the mix of cars was nice, something for everyone. I don't know how often they do them but I guess you'll see the majority of the same cars everytime. Shame I didn't meet you there, i'm going to try and go to a few local meets like that so maybe next time.
It's been a while since i've updated the thread. The car has been road legal since June but I had a few little things to sort out on it and I seemed to always find a reason to not drive it (the house move was a good excuse). I'll be honest there has been a reluctance on my part to drive it. Turns out i'm not quite over the fire. I've not been bothered about driving other cars but getting back behind the wheel of a Audi powered Boxster had me a little low on confidence, I am constantly worried something will go wrong.
I've been slowly getting it mapped, i'm using a company called Boosted Performance in America, they do lots of 2.7t stuff. The process is basically I drive it, send him the log and he makes adjustments, then I send another log and repeat. It's a bit of a slow process, time zones seem to get in the way. All these short drives have helped to build my confidence up with it.
I've sold the Mini I was using as a daily driver so now i'm relying on the Boxster, I have been getting a regular lift from a colleague but often find I end up driving myself in with the Boxster for various reasons. So far so good, i've done about 500 miles but I've now got a solid month of driving it as he's off on holiday. It's the first time i'll be relying on it so fingers crossed it doesn't let me down.
Regarding the mapping, there was an issue where the fueling resulting in a misfire as the boost ramped up. The original fuel pump wasn't up to the mighty 2.7t, I should of predicted that. The only reason I didn't change it was because it's the same part number as the pump used in the 996 3.4 and that's just shy of 300bhp so I expected it to be alright, it wasn't. I bought a 340lph fuel pump which I fitted this weekend. It's made a huge difference and the tune hasn't been optimised yet. Waiting on a new wideband to arrive and i'll be able to get the map finished off.
Since i've been using it quite a bit i've formed some opinions on it. When building it, I'd have replaced the standard K03 turbos with the larger RS4 K04's if i'd had the money but now after using it, I think the K03's make for a better road car. They build boost early, I think it's at about 1500rpm they come on. Even on a boring commute you can dip into a bit of boost easily without needing to actually go that fast, the power is more accessible. It also makes getting the back end out from just a bit of throttle pretty easy if i'm inclined to. The car drives exactly like a standard Boxster except for with bundles more torque. Noise wise, the exhaust is pretty quiet which is nice for daily driving (the exhaust on the old blue Boxster kind of ruined it) but when I open it up it sounds great and the V6 warble sounds much sweeter than a flat 6 to my ears. The induction sound of the turbos sucking is actually pretty loud but sounds good. The only slight negative is the Kaaz LSD makes itself known, even with the gearbox oil warmed up, on a tight turn it can be felt juddering a little and when cold it's a bit clunky. I think it's getting slightly better with the miles and i'm also getting more used to it, I wouldn't change it but it does slightly go agaisnt the cars overall standard factory feeling. All in all, i'm really happy with how it's turned out, looking forward to getting the map finished off so I can give it some proper welly. I'll then get some videos before it burns down, gets stolen or crashed.
I fitted a new wideband. Not sure if i'll leave it in the car permanently or not yet.
Since I wrote that update about needing to rely on it while my colleague was away it broke down the very next day. I needed to call for breakdown assistance I had the choice of someone out to fix or recovery, I had worked out it was a fuel pipe that had come off in the tank so I opted for someone with tools (which I then used to fix it myself). All done, I started to drive home, after about 15 miles it happened again. I couldn't face calling them again (maybe they'd have refused?!), luckily for me a mate happened to drive past and he went to my house to pick up some tools and I fixed it again. Once I got it home I had a good look at it. I used the fuel pipe supplied with the pump was really soft, it's almost like it wasn't suitable for being submerged in fuel. I replaced it and it's been fine since. Doesn't bode particularly well for the pump.
A few days later I sort of had another breakdown, I was out late making pulls in 3rd gear for data logging purposes, after taking it right to the rev limit I had a noise coming from the engine bay. Two ribs from the six rib drive belt had started to come apart and were flailing around making a right racket. Quite a strange way to fail, I've had belts snap, belts come off but not just a few ribs separate. I couldn't get my hand in there to rip them off so the choice was drive it and risk them wrapping around the cambelt (one section of the cambelt cover isn't used for engine swap reasons) or get recovery again. I took the chance of driving it and all was well. I've replaced the belt, I couldn't see what caused the failure, all the pulleys are good, no bad bearings.
The guy that's been doing the map had been hard work to nail down, i'd been on his case to make some progress, he'd agreed to do it on a Sunday evening which happened to be bad rain at the time, not ideal but I could hardly say I didn't fancy it. To make a log I needed to be in 3rd gear from low revs and take it to the redline (I think around 30-90mph). I was coming off a roundabout onto a dual carriageway, there is a slight bend before it straightens up, the run before had been fine but the second time, with some adjustments it came onto boost way harder than it had previously, the back end stepped out unexpectedly and I s
t myself, I was convinced I was going to lose it and everything went in slow motion, backed off, steered into it, it came around the other way, then back the other direction. It pendulemed 3 times and it wasn't like a typical wobble that gets less angle with each swing, I remember thinking it was going to spit me out so I just got on the brakes (which I've always been told you shouldn't do with oversteer), it then straightened up. Lucky I was on a 2 lane road so had space. That was about 2 weeks ago and I've not really booted it since then, just using it for work.
I've got a list of things I need to do, I've got something stuck in the garage so i've not been able to do any work on the Boxster. It needs suspension work, have a clunk from the rear and creaks from the front, this surely didn't help my attempts of trying to not crash. The charge cooler system is performing horribly so i've given up on the mapping until it's sorted. I hope it just has an air lock. I need to do something about the rear tyres, they are Continentals but are 8 years old, i'd like the replace the wheels ideally as i'm not fussed on them.
Since I wrote that update about needing to rely on it while my colleague was away it broke down the very next day. I needed to call for breakdown assistance I had the choice of someone out to fix or recovery, I had worked out it was a fuel pipe that had come off in the tank so I opted for someone with tools (which I then used to fix it myself). All done, I started to drive home, after about 15 miles it happened again. I couldn't face calling them again (maybe they'd have refused?!), luckily for me a mate happened to drive past and he went to my house to pick up some tools and I fixed it again. Once I got it home I had a good look at it. I used the fuel pipe supplied with the pump was really soft, it's almost like it wasn't suitable for being submerged in fuel. I replaced it and it's been fine since. Doesn't bode particularly well for the pump.
A few days later I sort of had another breakdown, I was out late making pulls in 3rd gear for data logging purposes, after taking it right to the rev limit I had a noise coming from the engine bay. Two ribs from the six rib drive belt had started to come apart and were flailing around making a right racket. Quite a strange way to fail, I've had belts snap, belts come off but not just a few ribs separate. I couldn't get my hand in there to rip them off so the choice was drive it and risk them wrapping around the cambelt (one section of the cambelt cover isn't used for engine swap reasons) or get recovery again. I took the chance of driving it and all was well. I've replaced the belt, I couldn't see what caused the failure, all the pulleys are good, no bad bearings.
The guy that's been doing the map had been hard work to nail down, i'd been on his case to make some progress, he'd agreed to do it on a Sunday evening which happened to be bad rain at the time, not ideal but I could hardly say I didn't fancy it. To make a log I needed to be in 3rd gear from low revs and take it to the redline (I think around 30-90mph). I was coming off a roundabout onto a dual carriageway, there is a slight bend before it straightens up, the run before had been fine but the second time, with some adjustments it came onto boost way harder than it had previously, the back end stepped out unexpectedly and I s
t myself, I was convinced I was going to lose it and everything went in slow motion, backed off, steered into it, it came around the other way, then back the other direction. It pendulemed 3 times and it wasn't like a typical wobble that gets less angle with each swing, I remember thinking it was going to spit me out so I just got on the brakes (which I've always been told you shouldn't do with oversteer), it then straightened up. Lucky I was on a 2 lane road so had space. That was about 2 weeks ago and I've not really booted it since then, just using it for work. I've got a list of things I need to do, I've got something stuck in the garage so i've not been able to do any work on the Boxster. It needs suspension work, have a clunk from the rear and creaks from the front, this surely didn't help my attempts of trying to not crash. The charge cooler system is performing horribly so i've given up on the mapping until it's sorted. I hope it just has an air lock. I need to do something about the rear tyres, they are Continentals but are 8 years old, i'd like the replace the wheels ideally as i'm not fussed on them.
I just want to get the tune finished and then i'll take it easy. I'm not a liability usually and I wouldn't have normally booted it in those conditions but there was someone on the other side of the world waiting for a log and i'd been on his case to spend some time on it. I was just a bit caught out the way the boost came in. I think it probably stepped out at about 50mph.
It's a project with moving goal posts. When I built the first car I wanted 500+bhp and it would be used just for fun. You wouldn't be getting that out of the Porsche engine reliably or cheaply, it made total sense on every level as far as i'm concerned.
I'd thrown the towel in after the fire, I was going to take up cross stitch and collecting stamps. Lots of very generous people helped me out (thank you) and the new plan was just to get a Boxster running an Audi engine as cheaply as possible. As you can see in this thread, it's been a windy road to do it, I bought 2 Audi's to break for parts and sold off some Boxster parts to make it happen. I get that the engine conversion makes slightly less sense when it's only 350bhp, it doesn't seem like much these days. That said for some perspective, a Cayman GT4 is 380bhp and my car has shorter gearing and way more torque, on the streets i'd fancy my chances.
The good thing about these Audi engines is the tunability, it's a set of injectors, a pair of turbos and a remap away from being 450bhp.
I'd thrown the towel in after the fire, I was going to take up cross stitch and collecting stamps. Lots of very generous people helped me out (thank you) and the new plan was just to get a Boxster running an Audi engine as cheaply as possible. As you can see in this thread, it's been a windy road to do it, I bought 2 Audi's to break for parts and sold off some Boxster parts to make it happen. I get that the engine conversion makes slightly less sense when it's only 350bhp, it doesn't seem like much these days. That said for some perspective, a Cayman GT4 is 380bhp and my car has shorter gearing and way more torque, on the streets i'd fancy my chances.
The good thing about these Audi engines is the tunability, it's a set of injectors, a pair of turbos and a remap away from being 450bhp.
As with most of my decisions it's cost based. I've paid £250 for a tune, I would be looking at £650 plus in the UK usually. I don't want to spend that, for a start, my spec isn't nailed down, when I can afford to I might want to go for bigger turbos. I've seen a few UK tuning companies that just do runs and send logs off to someone remotely anyway so it's no different to what i'm doing. The other thing is, i'm not totally happy about using the standard ECU with no airflow meter, it's basically being tuned with it's hands tied around it's back. All in all, it's just a case of get it running tidy enough that I can use it properly.
I've seen a standalone ECU I like the look of, called LPC8. They've got some money off for Black Friday so I might take the plunge. I like it because it's got some good CAN features. Some of the dash isn't working on my Boxster (coolant gauge being the main one), on this ECU there is a scan function where you send a range of CAN ID's to the dash and when you get a reaction on the dash you know the CAN data for that specific thing. All the CAN data has been figured out on the Boxster already which is handy. The plan is i'm going to slowly learn to tune it myself, it's the only thing I don't do myself and I want to learn (probably take some online courses). I will wire the ECU to be plug and play on the standard loom, then I can switch between the factory ECU and the aftermarket one which will take the pressure off when it comes to tuning.
I've seen a standalone ECU I like the look of, called LPC8. They've got some money off for Black Friday so I might take the plunge. I like it because it's got some good CAN features. Some of the dash isn't working on my Boxster (coolant gauge being the main one), on this ECU there is a scan function where you send a range of CAN ID's to the dash and when you get a reaction on the dash you know the CAN data for that specific thing. All the CAN data has been figured out on the Boxster already which is handy. The plan is i'm going to slowly learn to tune it myself, it's the only thing I don't do myself and I want to learn (probably take some online courses). I will wire the ECU to be plug and play on the standard loom, then I can switch between the factory ECU and the aftermarket one which will take the pressure off when it comes to tuning.
Nunga said:
There are not many threads on here where, when I see an update, it feels like Christmas.
Ho ho ho!
I was very pleased to read that the result of snap-oversteer was not going backwards off the road into Armco. Good save. Still love the car and I think the graft you’ve put into it is something else.
Ha ha, thanks. Ho ho ho!
I was very pleased to read that the result of snap-oversteer was not going backwards off the road into Armco. Good save. Still love the car and I think the graft you’ve put into it is something else.
Thank you.
I've finally had a chance to get it back over my pit. I knew it had an oil leak, I could smell it burning off on the exhaust manifold. It was an oil leak from the cam cover gasket. The 2.7t is a PITA for it. Luckily removing the cam covers isn't a big job in my car, takes half the time it does on an Audi and about a quarter of the time it would on a flat 6.
I've finally had a chance to get it back over my pit. I knew it had an oil leak, I could smell it burning off on the exhaust manifold. It was an oil leak from the cam cover gasket. The 2.7t is a PITA for it. Luckily removing the cam covers isn't a big job in my car, takes half the time it does on an Audi and about a quarter of the time it would on a flat 6.
I've given in to the temptation of tuning it and unlocking some of the potential of the Audi engine. I got stuck into some Black Friday deals
I wanted to switch over to a standalone ECU. There are a few things i'm not happy about on the Audi ECU that's currently running the engine. I've got a load of things on the dash not working correctly as it's all on CANbus. The EML light is on (MOT fail now), coolant temp doesn't work, overheating and low coolant lights are on permanently. Also, i'm not using a MAF now so it's tuned around that and it's a bit of a bodge, drives alright but could be better. I don't like the software used to log the standard ECU (me7logger and VCDS). It's going to be a much more sorted engine conversion on an aftermarket ECU.
On the last car I got it running and took it to a tuner for mapping. This time around I want to do it all myself, which means some learning. I'm not in a rush, happy to take my time with it. I've given myself a tough start by going for a bit of a random ECU called an LPC8 from a company in Iceland called Stjórntækni. It's got drive by wire throttle control and wideband lambda built in but the main reason I wanted it was the the CANbus functionality, there is a feature where it sends random CAN data to the dash and you can see what does what and work it out from there. Ideal for people doing engine swaps. It's actually all been worked out for the Boxster already which is nice. For anyone that's interested here are the specs https://controls.is/lpc8.html
Since i've got the ECU it'd be rude not to get some bigger turbos. I've bought some K04's which are what the RS4 would have come with as standard. I'm rolling the dice on some Chinese specials, they cost £209 delivered for a pair (had an ebay money off promotion). I know people like to slam Chinese turbos but they've been selling them for ages now, i'm sure they'll do the job. A pair of re-built genuine ones are about £1500. I can see why people pay that on an Audi as it's a huge engine out job to fit them but on my car it shouldn't be too bad.
I bought a set of 550cc Bosch fuel injectors from Opie Oils. I wanted to get injectors from someone reputable so I didn't end up with snides. They were surprisingly cheap, cost me £160 for 6. I think they must be standard fit on something common.
That's pretty much all the bits I need to shoot for 420-450bhp. It's going to take a while to do it, especially the ECU side of it all so the first stage of it is to get myself a daily driver. I've picked up an Alfa Romeo GT 1.9 JTDM Blackline for £300 with a snapped cambelt. These only break the rocker arms when the belt snaps so it's not that much work or money to put right. It's going to cost me about £550 all in. I do like an Alfa, had a few in the past and the GT is a decent looker for that sort of money.
I wanted to switch over to a standalone ECU. There are a few things i'm not happy about on the Audi ECU that's currently running the engine. I've got a load of things on the dash not working correctly as it's all on CANbus. The EML light is on (MOT fail now), coolant temp doesn't work, overheating and low coolant lights are on permanently. Also, i'm not using a MAF now so it's tuned around that and it's a bit of a bodge, drives alright but could be better. I don't like the software used to log the standard ECU (me7logger and VCDS). It's going to be a much more sorted engine conversion on an aftermarket ECU.
On the last car I got it running and took it to a tuner for mapping. This time around I want to do it all myself, which means some learning. I'm not in a rush, happy to take my time with it. I've given myself a tough start by going for a bit of a random ECU called an LPC8 from a company in Iceland called Stjórntækni. It's got drive by wire throttle control and wideband lambda built in but the main reason I wanted it was the the CANbus functionality, there is a feature where it sends random CAN data to the dash and you can see what does what and work it out from there. Ideal for people doing engine swaps. It's actually all been worked out for the Boxster already which is nice. For anyone that's interested here are the specs https://controls.is/lpc8.html
Since i've got the ECU it'd be rude not to get some bigger turbos. I've bought some K04's which are what the RS4 would have come with as standard. I'm rolling the dice on some Chinese specials, they cost £209 delivered for a pair (had an ebay money off promotion). I know people like to slam Chinese turbos but they've been selling them for ages now, i'm sure they'll do the job. A pair of re-built genuine ones are about £1500. I can see why people pay that on an Audi as it's a huge engine out job to fit them but on my car it shouldn't be too bad.
I bought a set of 550cc Bosch fuel injectors from Opie Oils. I wanted to get injectors from someone reputable so I didn't end up with snides. They were surprisingly cheap, cost me £160 for 6. I think they must be standard fit on something common.
That's pretty much all the bits I need to shoot for 420-450bhp. It's going to take a while to do it, especially the ECU side of it all so the first stage of it is to get myself a daily driver. I've picked up an Alfa Romeo GT 1.9 JTDM Blackline for £300 with a snapped cambelt. These only break the rocker arms when the belt snaps so it's not that much work or money to put right. It's going to cost me about £550 all in. I do like an Alfa, had a few in the past and the GT is a decent looker for that sort of money.
I'm happy with the risk. I'd have to go through 7 pairs of these to end up at cost of a set of genuine rebuilt ones. (which probably have exactly the same Chinese sourced bearings and wheels fitted).
I think the bad reputation came with the stuff being made 15 years ago. I remember pictures circulating of a compressor housing that had the 2 halves glued together. The only criticism I could find on the Internet for these specific turbos was the wastegate port was too small which gave boost control problems. This was about 8 years ago. They look fine on mine. The castings aren't as pretty but I'm not bothered.
I think the bad reputation came with the stuff being made 15 years ago. I remember pictures circulating of a compressor housing that had the 2 halves glued together. The only criticism I could find on the Internet for these specific turbos was the wastegate port was too small which gave boost control problems. This was about 8 years ago. They look fine on mine. The castings aren't as pretty but I'm not bothered.
MrBig said:
It's about doing your homework. The majority of people would be very surprised how much is outsourced by the proprietary brands these days and there is some fantastic product coming out of the far east. The problem with something like a turbo is the collateral damage if they do grenade themselves, top end engine damage is not a fun prospect so I imagine that's why so many people avoid them.
Yeah, it's a risk i'm willing to accept as it's not an expensive engine.Chris Type R said:
You'll find the Alfa is a bit of a Tardis when you drop the rear seats. Space for lugging stuff (and mine has the V6) makes it hard to get rid of.
Yeah, it's got a decent boot which is handy. I can't say i'm in love with the car, buying a non runner is a gamble and I feel i've lost this one. It's got loads of knocks and clunks from the suspension, front and rear. It already had new arms top and bottom, i've replaced the inner and outer track rod ends and a rear shock top mount. I think it's probably steering rack and/or anti roll bar which is a big job. I'll sort it out when I get the chance but driving it around clunking frustrates me so i'm on a downer with it. Once the Boxster is done i'll be getting rid.C350 said:
I saw many a horror story on AudiSRS with Chinese turbos 
Search for chow mein and plenty come up! Yes I’m being serious
I've got a duplicate of this build thread running on the AudiSRS forum and i've been given some 'advice'. A guy that happened to be selling a used pair of turbos for £2400 told me they'll definately blow up. I'm happy to take my chances. Search for chow mein and plenty come up! Yes I’m being serious
I've not been doing anything to the Boxster over the last few months, it's currently on SORN and i've been busy with other cars. I did fit some new rear suspension arms before it went off the road which did sort out a clunk it was making. Couldn't see any play in them on the car but once the arms were off the joints were a mess.
Chris Type R said:
You'll find the Alfa is a bit of a Tardis when you drop the rear seats. Space for lugging stuff (and mine has the V6) makes it hard to get rid of.
I managed to fill the boot on mine. 
Mark-t said:
I'm sure you'll already know this but you'll know if they've been balanced as the shaft will be ground on one side.
I'm looking forward to more updates
Yeah, they've been balanced. I'm looking forward to more updates
Peanut Gallery said:
Hmm, where did my post go?
Go for the turbos you have, and (fingers crossed it does not happen) if they do grenade, your intercooler will filter out bits.
How painful were the snapped belts to fix on the Alpha? - Sorry you are having clunks!
Keep the updates coming please!
Very easy on this engine, the valves don't bend, they snap rocker arms. I only had to change 2 of them, no need to take the head off. Go for the turbos you have, and (fingers crossed it does not happen) if they do grenade, your intercooler will filter out bits.
How painful were the snapped belts to fix on the Alpha? - Sorry you are having clunks!
Keep the updates coming please!
hpfiend said:
Fantastic work on both boxsters!
Thank you. Zombie said:
Where the hell did you find a blackline GT for £300?! the wheels are worth more than that!
My hunting ground is the Facebook marketplace these days. I really like the Blackline alloys, would have them on the Boxster if I could. Alfa consistently produce good alloy wheel designs in my opinion. They've also nailed the seats in the GT. Comfortable while being very supportive, better than the seats in the Boxster (or the sports seats from the old Boxster). The rest of the car isn't up to much, the Bose sound system in it is total cack. I was planning on working on the Boxster soon but it's been put back again, probably be a month or so until I get around to it.
First update for a while. I done 1000 miles in this so far, the majority being boring commuting ones as the charge cooler system wasn't working effectively. I knew there were some other issues also but as it was running and I needed it for work I had to just leave it. Once the Alfa was sorted and on the road I SORN'd the Boxster and it's been sat on the driveway over winter. The garage is finally empty so I got the Boxster back inside this week to sort it all out so I don't miss yet another summer. I was pleasantly surprised that the car was dry as a bone inside with no dampness or mould, not expected on a convertible that's been sat idle during all the storms we've had recently.
First job i'm doing is changing the turbos. On an Audi you'd need to pull the engine out, as it turns out it's pretty similar on mine but it's much easier to do. Just dropped the engine and gearbox down enough to get access to the bolts holding the turbo to the manifold.
Looks like i've got a couple of gearbox oil leaks. Definitely a leaking seal on the driveshaft flange. I'm going to pull the gearbox off for a proper inspection. I've got a feeling i'll be taking this back off again in a few months if it decides it's not happy with the torque from the bigger turbos.
Also got oil leaks both sides of the engine. Oil leaks are the achilles heal of these engines, I've replaced the cam cover seals twice already. Either i'm making a mess of the job or it's coming from somewhere else. Might need to take the cams out and replace the seals. I knew I had this oil leak as there would occasionally be a smoke cloud coming out of the side vents where the oil was burning off the exhaust manifold.
A turbo about to be removed, access it pretty good once the engine is lowered.
Got them out, the bottom picture shows the difference in size between a K03 and a K04.
First job i'm doing is changing the turbos. On an Audi you'd need to pull the engine out, as it turns out it's pretty similar on mine but it's much easier to do. Just dropped the engine and gearbox down enough to get access to the bolts holding the turbo to the manifold.
Looks like i've got a couple of gearbox oil leaks. Definitely a leaking seal on the driveshaft flange. I'm going to pull the gearbox off for a proper inspection. I've got a feeling i'll be taking this back off again in a few months if it decides it's not happy with the torque from the bigger turbos.
Also got oil leaks both sides of the engine. Oil leaks are the achilles heal of these engines, I've replaced the cam cover seals twice already. Either i'm making a mess of the job or it's coming from somewhere else. Might need to take the cams out and replace the seals. I knew I had this oil leak as there would occasionally be a smoke cloud coming out of the side vents where the oil was burning off the exhaust manifold.
A turbo about to be removed, access it pretty good once the engine is lowered.
Got them out, the bottom picture shows the difference in size between a K03 and a K04.
I took the gearbox off to investigate the oil leak, it's not the rear crank seal (which i'd changed previously), it's a leak coming down from above. I've also got leaks at the front of the engine, I will take the cams out and replace the cam seals. I should have done this last year before the engine went in but I optimistically thought the leaks were all coming from the cam covers.
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