325TI - Project Mpact

325TI - Project Mpact

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amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Wednesday 21st November 2018
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With work being absolutely manic the last couple of months or so (mainly doing work for some of you guys on here) updates on the compact have been slow!. But having the odd evening spare i've been doing some head scratching........

The front track on E46 M3's are wider than a stock E46, to achieve this BMW used longer bottom arms and offset top mounts.
After trawling through endless links to forums etc with the majority of people writing M3 parts cant be fitted to non-M cars i thought i'd try it out for myself.

The front track was still attached to the M3 donor vehicle, so i unbolted all the mounts/suspension and removed the front track in one lump and bolted it to the compact without the front springs (so i could get the wheel sitting where i wanted it).

Photos show the how flush the wheel sits with the arch.





Photo shows how offest M3 top mounts are, on stock E46 struts the center nut sits central to the strut tower.



So with stock M3 struts, top mounts, bottom arms and track rods it all fits flush with the arch, with the camber set to as positive as it can be (although i didn't try it lock to lock).

In my head that was the way i was going to go, so i ordered these KW V2's for an E46 M3 as the V2's use stock top mounts.



But with coilovers the adjustment collar sits behind the tyre/rim making the diameter of the strut wider. This causes the adjustment collar to sit very close to the tyre if not touching it.
With KW V2's they use a cone shaped spring which tapers out so that standard top mounts can be used. Not having the spring on i cant see where it tapers out and how much closer the spring will sit to the tyre.



To make more clearance a wheel spacer will be needed, on a normal M3 this would be fine as the arches are wider. But on the compact it would make the wheel poke out too far of the arch.... which i don't want.

So.... Bolting the stock Compact front track back on the car (which is narrower) this would allow me to have plenty of clearance to space the wheel out from the coilovers with out the wheel poking out from the arch.

Onto the next problem banghead ....... with the narrower front track of the compact i need to use stock E46 top mounts to keep the geometry right. Stock E46 top mounts do not fit onto M3 struts as the diameter of the shaft is larger.
To use the stock Compact top mounts i would need to open out the hole in the baring that sits over the shaft, but this will be hardened and a pain in the arse to do.

I really don't want to go the adjustable top mount route as i don't like the fact that they are solid mounted to the body otherwise i would have bought KW V3's as they come with them. But that's a last resort.

Or what i have found after some tinkering, with the M3 top mounts and can swap them left to right (the wrong way around) and rotate them. This puts the shaft nut back in the center of the strut tower but it does gain quite a lot of negative caster....... but until the time comes to getting it tracked up i don't how this will effect the handling.......... so for the time being i'll just keep thinking.

Anyway, while i was messing around with the suspension i noticed this,

A crack between where the locating pin goes and one of the stud holes.



so i ground back the paint, stop drilled the hole



Ground back the underside,



TIG'd welded,



Cleaned it up,




And sprayed it the wrong colour...... BMW don't spray the engine bays the same as the outside of the vehicle banghead
i'll need to sort this as it will bug the hell out of me. Photo taken after i started to rub it back,again.




Here you can see the difference in the top mounts, on the left is the M3 top mount a much larger surface area to spread the load. And the right the stock non-M compact mount, the load is in a much smaller area.



Cracking on E36, E46 and Z3's seem to be a common problem so much so that BMW produce a Reinforcment plate to help prevent this. Adjustable top mounts (hence why i don't want them) are usually solid mounted, this would exaggerate fractures. Having stiffer suspension doesn't help but its part and parcel of lowering or making a car handle better.









amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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geeks said:
Ref the top mount issue, I know it may go against the grain, try giving Robin from RAW Motorsport (http://www.rawmotorsport.co.uk/contact-us/) a call, he might have some advice here
Good man, thank you. just had a quick look on there site thumbup

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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daniel-5zjw7 said:
Well thats a bit of a pain! Personally I think perserving with the M3 parts is the way to go. Are you planning on running the m3 wheels??

What is closest to the tyre the adjustment collar the spring? If the former can you re-engineer it? How much clearance do you need to find? Looking at how that wheel sits I'd of thought you might just get away with 3-5mm and staying in the arch?

Those m3 wheels are 8" and et47 right? If you're not set on running 19s, Z4M wheels might be worth a look, still 8" but they're et42 front so you wouldnt need to run a spacer etc if 5mm is enough to clear, and also being an inch smaller they should clear the spring collar/spring a little bit better anyway. You could perhaps run a 225/40 tyre to make sure which would also help tuck the tyre back in the arch.

The rears are also decent as the z4 rims are 9" et30, my wheels are et37 and 8.5 and I have a fair bit of room left, you'd probably only need minor work on the rear arches if any and end up with wheels which fill the arches very well without needing spacers or too much faffing about with the arches.
I would prefer to stick with the M3 parts, ideally i'd like to make the front fit using the standard 17" sport wheels. It drives and handles a lot nicer on the 17"s, although 19"s do look much better.
With the 17" wheels i have New Goodyear Eagle F1's on them, they have the extra width of the rim protector on them.... and this sits up against the adjustment collar.

I've got a few set's of wheels i'm going to fiddle with, the stock sport wheels, the stock 19" M3 wheels, 19" VMR VB3's, and a set of 17" style 42 off my last compact......all different offsets!

The other thing is....... I've got a set of AP calipers to go on it too, and at the moment with the M3 discs the calipers clash with the back of the spokes on the 17" sport wheels. So it's all a bit of a jigsaw puzzle at the moment banghead I haven't yet had chance to try the caliper clearance with any other wheels yet.

Thanks for the knowledge with the Z4m wheels, i'll keep that in mind.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Friday 30th November 2018
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eezeh said:
biglaugh I know, I know.... i keep watching them bow

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Friday 30th November 2018
quotequote all
Nunga said:
Loving this build, and think a 3 Mpact is a great thing indeed. I have KW V3s on my E46 M3 and they reused the factory top mounts, so unless the design has changed in the last two and a half years (possible) you’d have needed to go to the Clubsport to have fully adjustable top mounts. And I swapped my top mounts over as well to run more camber; great budget bodge.
Thank you, I stand corrected you are right. It's the KW clubsports that have the adjustable top mounts not the V3's.
Out of interest, what does it handle like with the top mounts swapped? does the steering feel heavier with the extra caster?

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 5th January 2019
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Well, it's been a year exactly since the start of the "quick engine swap", this time last year i had taken the engine out of the M3 over the Christmas break. And....... the engine still hasn't made it into the Compact yet, as with most projects everything seems to take double the time expected.

With an update from my last post i had some "under hood" estoril blue mixed up to try and colour match the crack repair on the strut tower, it's not perfect but i think it's the best it's going to get without respraying the entire engine bay. I think it will be fine once i refit the strut brace, most of it will be hidden.



Ideally with the front track i wanted to stick with the M3 items (top mounts, bottom arms and tie rods) but after a lot of faffing about plans have changed.
I'm going to be using the stock Compact sport front track as it's narrower, this allows plenty of tolerance for different offset wheels and wheel spacers.

Not only do i want to space the wheels out to give clearance from the back of the wheel to the coilover but to allow clearance for a brake caliper upgrade, BMW calipers are good for day to day driving but on track days brake fade seems common. A few months ago after searching for Brembo Porsche calipers (which seems the way to go) i started thinking what else could i use. Ideally Radial mount calipers to suit a disc of 325mmx28mm (M3 or bigger) that i could mock up some mounts, then get them drawn and machined from billet.

After searching for many different car makes i came across a full set of calipers, brand new in there boxes directly from Lotus. A pair of front AP 4 pot calipers (red) and a pair of AP rear 4 pot calipers (black) with pads which are used on Lotus Evora GT's.



With one of the old and warn discs from the front of the M3 i roughly worked out i can fit an M3 disc and AP caliper inside a 17" wheel, although the diameter is tight..... have to be careful where wheel weights go.

The only other slight problem is the distance from the face of the caliper to the rear of the spokes on the wheel, this is where the wheel spacers will need to be used (hence my decision to use the compact narrower front track).






A standard 17" front Compact wheel with a 15mm spacer, due to the curvature of the spokes (still a bit snug).



An old 17" RS740 from my last E46 Compact, Same 15mm spacer.



A 19" VMR VB3 with a 10mm spacer



And a 19" front wheel off the M3, this bolted straight on with no spacers and gave plenty of clearance but........i can't use these due to the offset on the rear wheels ( they poke out far to much for my liking).

All of the above wheels fit without sitting ridiculously close to the wheel arch, even with the 15mm spacers.

Now that is all worked out, all be it roughly i know what i'm using and i can go about getting hubs etc blasted, cleaned and painted.

Top mount wise on the KW M3 coilovers i still haven't come to a decision on what i'm doing with them, adjustable top mounts are still a last resort as i think they are too harsh for daily driving.

hopefully i'll have more updates soon.







amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
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Sf_Manta said:
Looking good so far.

With the caliper clearance issue, if you do go with spacers, hub concentric ones from H&R or akin would be the best way, it's what i used for my conversion with the Porsche calipers if you've not gone with them already.

As for using OEM top mounts but getting some camber in, I've been considering getting these https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-265-front-fixed... but the import price could get expensive.

Only downside is that they're semi fixed at 2.5 to 3 degrees.
Thank you, yes that's the way i was thinking with wheel spacers .....i'll need the longer bolts too, i think they come with them.

I didn't realise people made those plates, thank you. I had a similar idea, either that or press the studs out the top mount and relocate them... i need to have a better look at the top mounts really.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
eezeh said:
those AP racing calipers look cracking with the standard wheels!
laugh I do too, fill the inside of the wheel up nicely! I never used to like the style of the standard wheels but it's grown on me.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
quotequote all
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Those brakes are awesome Adam smile

Ref the M3 wheels, I can't remember the offset of the M3 rears now, et20 seems to ring a bell.. perhaps you could have them machined to bring them to a workable spec? Just did a quick search and found these guys in Chelmsford who offer the service

http://www.tttoolsltd.co.uk/services/
Good man, handy to know the website thanks. The M3 rears are et27 9.5j, i did look at the inside of the wheels but there doesn't seem much material on them to machine off.... maybe 5mm max. My VMR rears are 9.5j et45 and used to touch slighly under hard driving, but i have slightly rolled the rear arch for a bit of clearance now. I'd have to have a fair chunk taken off them to make them usable, but i don't think it's possible.

Thanks for the input!

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
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HumanSteamroller said:
Those 19" VMR VB3 with 10mm spacers look spot on.
They do look nice,surprising how lost the brakes look inside them..... their quite heavy though.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
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ATM said:
I had exactly this problem with my v8 e46. It was running some cades wheels I think they're called. You can see in this pic - if you zoom in a bit - how I got the wheel weights on.

This was a 356mm disc and ap 6 pot 7040 caliper.

Anyway I wanted to chime in to say different wheels vary in thickness of their barrel or inside shape / size - you understand my novice terminology. I switched to some light weight OZ wheels and had loads of room for weights. At least a few extra mm. I went from caliper knocking weights off to caliper clearing weights. So don't assume the inner barrel will be similar on other wheels. If you want to test fit some 17 inch OZ I have a couple of sets in bmw fitment 8 inch wide 5x120 et40 that are 7.2 kg per wheel or there abouts.

Personally I prefer smaller diameter wheels but understand I'm out on my own a bit in that respect. Happy to help out if you want to join the tiny wheel club.

Thank you for your input, It's surprising how time consuming it is working out clearances etc. Looks like you had a fun time too!
Yes i can see what you mean, I've done a lot of head scratching in the past with building 3 piece splits and making things fit, learnt the hard way/best way.

That's kind of you to offer, if i get to the stage when i need to try one i'll drop you a message thanks. I prefer the way it handles on the smaller wheels hence the reason trying to squeeze them into the standard 17" wheels.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
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Nunga said:
19x9.5 +27 is a standard Styling67 M3 rear wheel.

19x8 +47 is a standard Styling67 M3 front wheel.

The 18s are 18x8 +47 and 18x9 +26, in case people were looking for it too.

On topic, if you’re looking for a wider but not super aggressive wheel for the rear, you could run a CSL Styling163 front wheel; 19x8.5 +44, so it will sit in much further. I think smaller wheels would be better as well, for what it’s worth, but just offering alternatives.
Thanks, i didn't realise the 18's are slightly narrower.

My VMR vb3's (CSL replica's) are 19x9.5 et45 on the rears, i went for these years ago as i wanted to maintain the concave face/spokes on the rears...... putting the front wheels on the back without the concave never seems to look quite right in my eyes. Thank you for your help though beer

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Saturday 12th January 2019
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shalmaneser said:
If you're going to machine adaptor brackets you may as well use CSL front discs with are 345mm (from memory). Bit bigger so better braking and will fill those 19" wheels a bit better.

I would be tempted to go for 18" wheels though personally.
You are correct, they are 345mm. Only thing with that is i wont be able to fit them inside my standard 17" wheels, it's all a bit snug inside them at the moment.

I do have a plan in the back of my head with the BBS RS740's, take the centres out, get some new dishes and barrels to step the up to an 18" (from a 17") and then i could tinker with the offsets too..... but that will be a project at a later date.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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Small update,

While i was faffing around with the front suspension/brakes i'd sent my rear trailing arms, back plates, anti roll bars and a few other bits to be blasted.
With the rear trailing arms being hollow i wanted to make sure they concentrated getting all the rust and crud out the inside, while the parts were there they also sprayed everything inside and out with hot zinc to prevent rust in the future.



Painted all the parts with POR15



With all the parts painted the next thing was to start reassembling. All threads were tapped out to ensure threads were clean, Melye wheel bearings and bushes were carefully pressed in using a fly press.


amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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It's all starting to come together now!

With a workshop full of nice clean painted bits everywhere it was time to start assembling them all together. Unlike the removal of the rear end (where it all came off in one big lump) i found the easiest way i found was to mount the axle carrier first and then bolt all the other parts to it, this saves parts from getting damaged or paint chipped/scratched.

Most the parts together and torqued up, i fitted the rear shocks but left the springs out the the time being.







Excuse the crappy dark photos, they looked a lot brighter on my phone.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Sunday 20th January 2019
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It was time i started to make something, theirs only so much cleaning and painting i can do until i get bored and need to tinker.

So, way back in 2011 a few friends and i went to RAF Upwood....an old RAF base that you could pretty much just drive around. Which we did, and took lots of photos of our cars, as you do.







Which brings me to this photo,



Matty's E46 M3. Unfortunately he no longer owns the car, but 8 years later the picture is still in the back of my mind.

It's the CSL Diffuser, i took the photo with the intent to make one for the Compact and then have the quad exhaust too.

Here we go,

It just happens the M3 donor car had a CSL 'style' Diffuser on it, although it was carbon it was made poorly and didn't really fit the M3 very well.

The basic idea,



I wanted to make something that fitted within the recess of the bumper while maintaining the OEM look. After a fair amount of faffing with the panel that came from the donor vehicle it was far too floppy, wouldn't hold its shape and the contours didn't match the compact bumper. Plus it had body lines molded into it either side that matched the M3 bumper. It was going to be a loosing battle with the carbon fiber/fiber glass backed panel.

So sticking to what i know,

With some 2mm Aluminium i roughly cut the shape i needed, annealed it to make it more workable. Rolled each end to create a starting point,



Then using a miniature English wheel i made from a big g-clamp i formed a compound curve to suit the contours of the Compact bumper,



With some more 2mm sheet a strip was cut and folded into an angle, then using the English wheel a curve was made to match the contour of the bumper, it was then notched, drilled and some nut inserts fitted.



The angle strip was then TIG welded to the previously made panel, The carbon fiber section i wanted was cut out from the M3 panel,



Upon fitting into the bumper recess something didn't look right, for what ever reason the underside of the bumper is cut differently from factory so that needed to be filled in,

Right hand side,



Left hand side, with the little infill,



After some metal finishing to get it all smooth,



The carbon fiber part will be bonded in at a later date,





The Aluminium panel will be painted to match the Estoril Blue, no filler will be needed. The carbon weave will be left shown.

Here it is fitted to the car,





That's all for now folks!



amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Thursday 24th January 2019
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Barrie c 66 said:
Wow !! Incredible skills.
Thank you!

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Thursday 24th January 2019
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eezeh said:
that is absolutely incredible work, i really do envy your skill set! cloud9
I don't think words could describe how much i love your car!

Are you still able to drive on the raf site?
Thank you! I'm unsure about the RAF site, i haven't been there since. I know it was used for Airsoft as there was BB balls everywhere, quite a cool place....shame it's so run down and not preserved.

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Thursday 24th January 2019
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Dr G said:
The G-clamp english wheel made me smile; what a great tool!
Ha, yes a lot of people like that, or ask what it is.... it's so handy to have for small bits. It's made from scrap and off cuts believe it or not biglaugh

amc_adam

Original Poster:

393 posts

72 months

Thursday 24th January 2019
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mark.c said:
Lovely work.

Was the black E30 in the pictures above a 320is ?
Thanks, It is indeed, was my brothers at the time. Absolutely spotless.