480 bhp and 1360 kg Saab 9000 Aero

[Nutty9000]

227bhp said:

If you're running 630s you aren't pushing out 500bhp that's for sure.

The grip issues in first and second can be tamed by fitting a gear dependent boost controller perhaps?

Edited by 227bhp on Friday 20th October 16:22

Yeh this has made 506 bhp at 2.0 bar (currently 1.6 bar), maybe it was on bigger injectors back then will have to find out. Next year I'll get a billet GTX blade and put some 875s on.

[madwrx]

if your trying to squeeze small injectors its quite common to turn up the base fuel pressure-up to a point that pushes a little more out.
piss poor way to tune a car with no injector headroom though

[227bhp]

madwrx said:

if your trying to squeeze small injectors its quite common to turn up the base fuel pressure-up to a point that pushes a little more out.
piss poor way to tune a car with no injector headroom though

There is more to it too, when you wind the fuel pressure up the injector has to try and open itself against that pressure, that messes with the timing of the injector and makes them sluggish to react.

A 630 injector will make approx 460bhp @ the fly if used flat out at 100% and the FP cranked up to 4 bar.

Unlike saying the fairies at the bottom of the garden only come out when there is no-one around, fuel injector sizes have irrefutable maths to show us what is going on.

[Nutty9000]

227bhp said:

There is more to it too, when you wind the fuel pressure up the injector has to try and open itself against that pressure, that messes with the timing of the injector and makes them sluggish to react.

A 630 injector will make approx 460bhp @ the fly if used flat out at 100% and the FP cranked up to 4 bar.

Unlike saying the fairies at the bottom of the garden only come out when there is no-one around, fuel injector sizes have irrefutable maths to show us what is going on.

Yeh it only weighs 1360 kg so around 450 would make sense considering the 100-200 km/h time of 8.6. Dyno in Dec.

[Nutty9000]

227bhp said:

There is more to it too, when you wind the fuel pressure up the injector has to try and open itself against that pressure, that messes with the timing of the injector and makes them sluggish to react.

A 630 injector will make approx 460bhp @ the fly if used flat out at 100% and the FP cranked up to 4 bar.

Unlike saying the fairies at the bottom of the garden only come out when there is no-one around, fuel injector sizes have irrefutable maths to show us what is going on.

What you've said here must be incorrect.

I can confirm it made 506 bhp with the 630s installed:

[227bhp]

Initially I wasn't commenting on your car or posts, it was the other one, but no this just confirms their dyno reads a mile out and they hardly had a good reputation anyhow.
A dyno is essentially a tool for tuning and mapping of engines, as a comparator (from one to another) they are pointless as there are so many factors involved which can skew the results.
Look at the other figures, they claim an ambient temp of 15.3 yet the intake temp was 10.8, er, how was that and where on the intake was it taken?
Also the guy claims to have sat in the car stationary whilst it did 185mph, this I raise my eyebrow to.

Put it on a Dyno Dynamics or a hub dyno and see what it will do, although before that Google 'Injector CC calculator' for a rough idea.

A thread you might be interested in here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Nutty9000]

227bhp said:

Initially I wasn't commenting on your car or posts, it was the other one, but no this just confirms their dyno reads a mile out and they hardly had a good reputation anyhow.
A dyno is essentially a tool for tuning and mapping of engines, as a comparator (from one to another) they are pointless as there are so many factors involved which can skew the results.
Look at the other figures, they claim an ambient temp of 15.3 yet the intake temp was 10.8, er, how was that and where on the intake was it taken?
Also the guy claims to have sat in the car stationary whilst it did 185mph, this I raise my eyebrow to.

Put it on a Dyno Dynamics or a hub dyno and see what it will do, although before that Google 'Injector CC calculator' for a rough idea.

A thread you might be interested in here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Ok fair enough, I'm going to take it to street racers rolling road in December which is the same dyno that the 9-5 made 340 bhp 520 NM. The seat of my pants says this 9k is MUCH quicker, 450 sounds about right. We'll see.

[anonymous-user]

227bhp said:

Look at the other figures, they claim an ambient temp of 15.3 yet the intake temp was 10.8, er, how was that and where on the intake was it taken?

I'm more concerned about the "Steam pressure" never seen that on a dyno before!

[Nutty9000]

Car is back from mechanic, having had the following work done:

- Welded inlet manifold
- Baffled sump replaced with stock sump and re-sealed; baffled sump had chemiweld all over it and was beyond repair. Moving parts were apparently hitting the sump. No wonder it was leaking!
- New NGK BCR8ES spark plugs gapped to 0.9mm
- New indicator and brake light bulbs as some were out
- New brake light lense (driver's side)
- Fresh oil and filter

It's idling beautifully so I assume it was the porous inlet manifold. It's much smoother now yet just as savage.

Next weekend I'll be picking up and installing better condition rear left door, front right fender and wooden dashboard.

Future plans:

- Fit LSD
- New offside SKF wheel bearing
- Investigate squeaking sound from some engine belt (noise coming from front right)
- Drive the thing!

[Nutty9000]

New brake light lense:





Welded inlet manifold:







Stock, resealed oil sump:





And no, that isn't oil pouring out in the picture above! It's some random hose, just trying to find out if it's important and whether I can just chop it off.





While it's holding oil nicely now, it seems to be spewing oil onto the bonnet although not much. Is this to be expected from a 450+ bhp 2.4 at full chat?






Will keep a very close eye on the oil level.

[Nutty9000]

Turns out it was the oil breather pipe.

[CornedBeef]

I spent far too long trying to figure out if that was oil pouring out, only to scroll down to the next picture for you to explain it!

As an aside, love what you've done with this mate.

[Nutty9000]

CornedBeef said:

I spent far too long trying to figure out if that was oil pouring out, only to scroll down to the next picture for you to explain it!

As an aside, love what you've done with this mate.

Nice one thanks, yeh just the oil breather pipe but I did st myself when I first saw it, was like 'when's it going to stop pouring out!?!'; I don't mind the odd little job that needs doing but ideally i don't want to be taking it to the workshop more than once every 3 months. I reckon £1k a year on maintenance is justifiable for a 22 year old hatchback that'll do 60-100 mph in 4 seconds.

[madwrx]

not sure a grand a year will be enough-depending on how many little jobs you can do yourself- hard driven fwd car-reckon a gearbox a year with shafts and wheel bearings taking a hammering reguarly at least, without a host of little niggles that will crop up-

[Nutty9000]

madwrx said:

not sure a grand a year will be enough-depending on how many little jobs you can do yourself- hard driven fwd car-reckon a gearbox a year with shafts and wheel bearings taking a hammering reguarly at least, without a host of little niggles that will crop up-

You're probably right, the problem with a car like this isn't just the maintenance it's the constant temptation for ongoing upgrades.

On the plus side it's pretty depreciation-proof and not many left now.

[madwrx]

i think you just have to it put in context-that the running costs are tiny compared to similar performance supercar and uber saloons really.
if you,ve got a good base engine mods may revolve around bodywork and general improv.ements all round -its how i play with mine ,draw a sensible reasonably affordable list of bits to do each year, and blow that budget within 3 months lol.

a small piece of advice is to not try to "raceify" a road going car -the noise and general discomfort will mean less and less actual road miles .... real race cars are undrivable on the road...

[HedgeyGedgey]

Nutty9000 said:

What you've said here must be incorrect.

I can confirm it made 506 bhp with the 630s installed:

Just thought I'd add, dyno numbers are just that. Dont be fooled into saying it's 500bhp, take it to another dyno on a different day it could be 400, another day another dyno could be 600. They should be used as a tuning tool and thats it, its how it feels and the area under the graph that makes a fast car

[madwrx]

generally you,ll know whether the engine is near the numbers if the chosen turbo and setup will take the timing(fuel permitting) -
most mappers that map the same engine all the time have a good idea of power and will ignore what the RR says and just use it to test the tuning as they go ,bit hard to tune a big power car on the road anyway- 460-480 sounds about right for a non billet 3071 flat out ,never seen one make 500 ,they dont usually flow enough for that -you,d need a newer gtx front comp wheel for that i reckon.

[Scobblelotcher]

madwrx said:

generally you,ll know whether the engine is near the numbers if the chosen turbo and setup will take the timing(fuel permitting) -
most mappers that map the same engine all the time have a good idea of power and will ignore what the RR says and just use it to test the tuning as they go ,bit hard to tune a big power car on the road anyway- 460-480 sounds about right for a non billet 3071 flat out ,never seen one make 500 ,they dont usually flow enough for that -you,d need a newer gtx front comp wheel for that i reckon.

Slightly off topic but your knowledge and posts are great bud, you really know your stuff.

I had Imprezas and tuned them over the years (up to 380 so on the lower end) and have an idea on this stuff but nowhere near your depth of knowledge/experience.

[Nutty9000]

madwrx said:

generally you,ll know whether the engine is near the numbers if the chosen turbo and setup will take the timing(fuel permitting) -
most mappers that map the same engine all the time have a good idea of power and will ignore what the RR says and just use it to test the tuning as they go ,bit hard to tune a big power car on the road anyway- 460-480 sounds about right for a non billet 3071 flat out ,never seen one make 500 ,they dont usually flow enough for that -you,d need a newer gtx front comp wheel for that i reckon.

Ok but let's say a b234 2.3 with a GT3071r and no other mods will make 450 bhp.

This 9k is bored to 2.4, has a bigger inlet and more aggressive Maptun 268 cams.

Am I assuming that the above mods yield no extra power?

Edited by Nutty9000 on Thursday 2nd November 22:35